“READERS FORUM” FEBRUARY 24, 2018

1. A lot of the Trump Clown Posse will want to talk about guns today.
   Of course! They do not want to talk about the wildfires burning around the Trump Whitehouse and the Trump Campaign organization.
   Too close to the bone! Scared! Dont-wanna-talk-about-it!!

   But it is real. And its hot. And it is coming.

   The latest cooperating Trump Campaign witness is about as big as it gets. He was close to Trump, and for a long time. After inauguration. On staff. Directing his PAC. The kind of guy who forgot more about the Trump Campaign than the stupid child, Don Jr..

   “WASHINGTON—Former top Trump Campaign official, Richard Gates, previously indicted by special counsel Robert Mueller, pleaded guilty Friday. It makes him the fifth person to publicly admit to criminal misconduct, and the third Trump associate to cooperate, in the wide-ranging probe into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 election.”

   Trump was so shaken by this new indictment yesterday, that at CPAC, he repeated a previous speech, not knowing what to say. So, get on with it. Talk about guns instead of the wildfire consuming Trump.

   He’s going down.

2. this thing with trump today, manaforts #1 guy starts cooperating with mueller. that guy is not just some lackey. he stayed in chief positions with trump after manafort left under russia pressure. this is ridiculous. everything points to trump being soft on russia because they are blackmailing him. did you see how fast mueller got every single damn detail on manaforts international finances fast as lightning?
   mueller’s got all of trump’s russian financial stuff. he has it.
   all republicans need to stay the hell out of trumps orbit.
   thats why trump is losing it on russia against republican wishes. they’re blackmailing him.

   • There is an old saying, don’t count your chickens before they hatch!

     • i agree. i dont think hes going down like schaefer. hes a total buffoon, a lackey and self-serving total liar.
       but he’ll serve out his term.
       mitch mcconnell finds the guy too valuable.
       the republican party can run roughs-shod over trump, force him to sign anything mcconnell and ryan want him to sign.
       gop is doing great. trump is a total, blackmailed by the russians piece of crap.

3. Here are the 2 basic positions with the organized school protests supported by the Womens March of the pussy hat fame. George Soros, other avowed socialists, Occupy, ACLU and other usual Resist Trump types. First, is the Texas/Ohio red-state solution that police trained and vetted VOLUNTEER school faculty have concealed carry or have access to secret gun safes in the event of a school shooting – this has both a deterrent effect and rapid response to help protect student’s lives if such a horrible tragedy occurred. These schools suspend students for missing classes and disrupting learning. Second, is the Womens March socialist approach of allowing school children to miss classes for protests, chanting, signs, and their solutions to school shootings include a $15/hr minimum wage and a single payer health care system (you just can’t make this up). Do your own research and what side to you want the EVSC to be on??
   ………………………………………………

   “A sign outside campus warns: “Please be aware that the staff at Argyle [Independent School District] are armed and may use whatever force is necessary to protect our students.”…Officials at Argyle and other districts say the policies deter shooters and provide peace of mind, and that other schools should follow their lead. Scores of Texas school districts allow teachers to carry arms….”We’re going to protect our kids at any cost,” said U.S. history teacher Sharon Romero, a gun owner who did not volunteer to be armed at school, but is glad co-workers did. She’s disappointed that lawmakers haven’t done more to enact “common-sense” regulations, such as expanded background checks…”At least we’re taking action,” she said. “I feel safer coming to work than a lot of other teachers in this country do.”

   http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-school-armed-20180222-story.html

   A Texas school district is threatening to suspend students who protest gun violence during school hours as “walkouts” among young activists take place nationwide….Curtis Rhodes, Superintendent of Needville Independent School District, stated in a letter posted to Facebook and reportedly sent home to students on Tuesday that while the school district “is very sensitive to violence in schools including the recent incident in Florida,” the district “will not allow a student demonstration during school hours for any type of protest or awareness!!”….The superintendent said students should “respect” themselves and other students, and should “please understand that we are here for an education and not a political protest.”

   http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/21/texas-school-district-threatens-to-suspend-students-who-protest-gun-violence-during-school-hours.html

   Two school districts in Ohio believe their teachers are the best first line of defense against an active shooter. The Sidney and Mad River school districts have trained an undisclosed number of teachers to fire back if encountered by a killer. Those districts have guns hidden in safes throughout its schools. Only staff on the armed response team can open them. “Our staff members are trained to go to the threat and address the threat. Not to run away,” Mad River Schools Superintendent Chad Wyen told Fox News. Members of the armed response are selected by the district, vetted and must have a license to carry a firearm. The team goes through “rigorous” monthly training.

   https://rare.us/rare-news/across-the-u-s-a/these-ohio-school-districts-are-putting-teachers-packing-heat-on-the-front-lines-of-defense/

   ……………………………………………..
   March 14 the national Women’s March organization has called for a coordinated national walkout of students and teachers in schools across the nation….
   Unions that represent teachers and other school employees should support these calls, mobilize their members to take action alongside students, including strike action where possible. The mobilizations should escalate around concrete demands including banning military-style semi-automatic weapons and other basic gun safety measures; full funding for all school services to help students in crisis situations and demilitarization of our communities….
   School shootings are the most horrific aspect of the epidemic levels of gun violence in the United States which is far higher than in any other wealthy society. There are many reasons for the scale of violence but all point back to the savage history of American capitalism and the brutal alienation and inequality it engenders today…
   The history of police and military interventions is one of attacks on unions and civil rights organizations, of spying, provocations and as we have seen in too many instances, the ability of the police to shoot unarmed suspects, particularly people of color, without consequence. Peaceful political protests such as Occupy and demonstrations against corporate politics have been attacked by the police, and undemocratically infiltrated by police agents and provocateurs….
   This is a president who was enthusiastically endorsed by the NRA and is clearly out to encourage bigotry which encourages violence; the whole tone of this administration gives justifications for violence and in his campaign meetings he encouraged violence against anyone who heckled him….
   But we should be clear that while the NRA and its backers currently promote the idea of individually armed citizens and not militias, at another stage a significant part of their heavily armed base could be turned into an overtly counterrevolutionary force to terrorize left-wing activists, workers in struggle, people of color, immigrants, and LGBT people as an auxiliary force to the capitalist state….
   A massive jobs program, a $15 an hour federal minimum wage and other anti-poverty measures, and a single-payer, socialized health-care system which prioritizes mental health care would be huge steps forward in creating a saner, less violent society. We advocate all measures that would reduce the level of inequality in society and that would dismantle institutional racism, but we stress that only by uprooting capitalism can we create a just, egalitarian society

   https://www.socialistalternative.org/2018/02/21/parkland-school-massacre-youth-rise-violence-inequality/

   The Daily Beast asked educators what they would do if they or their colleagues were asked to carry guns in their classrooms. None supported the idea. Many, in fact, said they’d quit teaching.

   https://www.thedailybeast.com/teachers-well-quit-before-trump-makes-us-carry-guns

   Arming Teachers Would Endanger Students of Color. Donald Trump’s proposal to arm teachers would make schools more dangerous for some students.

   https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/trumps-proposal-to-arm-teachers-would-endanger-students-of-color.html

   • JOE BIDEN!!!!
     Sir. What are all those plans gonna cost?

     Who is gonna pay for that?

     Am I gonna have to pay for that?

     I keep thinking you’ll answer JoeBiden, but for 2 DAYS you’ve been asked this question, and you won’t answer. Is this tied to fiscal responsibility or not?

     • BM, ignored the question because it was silly. This is not advanced financial calculus and, surprisingly, this is the first time a liberal has ever worried about the cost of any government project. It is worth the small cost in other States to protect their students. Texas, Ohio and other states already provide additional student protection with VOLUNTEER teachers. Since they VOLUNTEER their time to protect students, there should be no cost for their donated time. You do the math on their firearms (guessing 9mm polymer pistols with 15-17 round clips est $600-900 and a few dispersed gun safes) and other ancillary costs, including the signs warning any potential shooters the faculty has an armed response team.

       • Ok.
         If they screw up and it’s their fault, who pays their lawyers and legal fees?

         (Give real answers Joe. This is a fiscal conversation, in fact, if anything, conservative, because we care if things can be paid for)

         Who pays legal costs?

   • The ignorance behind those that want to arm teachers is beyond astounding. It is just an effort to distract people from the idiotic talking points the NRA has shoved at people and the blood money they have spent for decades to buy politicians. The undue influence of the NRA has corrupted the impetus of our legislatures, and the people and the kids are who have truly suffered the legislative consequences and physical effects of errantly designed fiscally based national policy on weapons

     Teachers and lunch ladies inside the building preparing for class cannot possibly protect students even if they were well trained. It is ludicrous to assert that discharging firearms in an active weapons fire within our schools is the best means of achieving security. The NRA and Trump are turning our schools into combat zones so that they and the arms industry can profiteer off of the unregulated and unrestricted sale of arms and the murder of our citizens and children in their classrooms.

     And why are we even debating different ways to win the gunfights in our schools versus removing guns and preventing gunfights from occurring in our schools AND society in general? Because our politicians are bought and paid for by the NRA. Why ban AR-15’s when arms dealers can sell a more and more to untrained civilians, people who should never own a weapon?

     The current policy discussion is NOT about banning guns, it is the common sense policy of controlling weapons. This is not opinion, this is legal fact. The Second Amendment’s core protection (which the Supreme Court outlined in the Heller decision) is the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home, which indicates that unlimited weapons do not mean increased quantities everywhere as so many try and espouse. The provision for folks to have weapons in the home is NOT the same as having weapons all over outside the “hearth and home.”

     The Supreme Court further emphasized that “the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited” in that it is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” The Court was very specific when it outlined that it was not “cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms”

     There are a whole lot of really crazy people (and corporations) in the United States that are armed to the teeth, mentally unstable, and are willing to sell weapons to a kindergartner if it would improve their bottom line. They love to use scare tactics. They talk about evil vile people and “Mexican rapists.” Then when you are scared they claim we all need guns and great big wall to keep us all safe.

     The efforts behind arming teachers are along the same thought pathways who argue that “more gun laws are not the answer because criminals do not follow the law” nonsense. That backward commentary would extend to “why have any laws at all if people are just gonna break the law” that has been proven to be incorrect

     The statement that “criminals do not follow laws” is true for the same reason it’s COMPLETELY irrelevant to a substantive discussion on gun reform because it’s a tautology. It says exactly nothing about the proper course of action a society should take to improve social outcomes.

     Yes, criminals don’t follow laws. This is no more meaningful statement about social realities than the observation that dogs bark or cats meow, so it is baffling that gun proponents view this as an acceptable rejoinder in political debate.

     Erroneous thinking and lack of willingness to help fellow citizens like many on here spout this nonsense as it has become increasingly popular among those who oppose gun reform to argue that such legislation only hurts law-abiding citizens, making it more difficult for innocent civilians to get the guns they need to defend themselves.

     When gun fanatics with no sense say that they are being “hurt” by gun control, let’s be clear what the actual implication of this statement is: my right to not be bothered in the least by regulation outweighs the right to life for thousands of innocents who die in the absence of said regulation. Not only can such gun reforms reduce the number of homicides, but there is very little controversy about the tremendous effect they would have at reducing suicides. So, the belief that laws aimed at saving lives “hurt law-abiding citizens” is completely incompatible with any sane definition of right and wrong.

     Many are spouting the bullshit “why have any laws at all” that so many of the ignorant mouth off about. Not only is this conservative sound-bite irrelevant to gun reform discussion, it’s also socially untenable and dangerously naïve. If we were to accept that a law is justified only if it has a 100% compliance rate (this is, necessarily, the logical extension of any position that renounces legal reform under the pretense that ‘criminals don’t obey laws’), then we could systematically dismantle every existing law until nothing remains but the state of nature. Laws against murder, rape, and theft would be abandoned out of fear that criminals wouldn’t follow them and that they would thus hurt law-abiding citizens who ostensibly murder, rape, and thieve out of self-defense.

     Not to mention that there are already plenty of weapons that have been banned which criminals aren’t using like rocket-propelled grenades (RPG’s), anti-tank weapons, surface-to-air missiles, and so on. Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that criminals automatically have a desire to use said weapons, or have access to a black market that could supply them.

     In actuality what would really make us all a lot safer would be enacting legislation that would take guns out the hands of these currently legal and paranoid arms syndicates. They are propagating and exacerbating the Cartel Wars south of our border.

     A recent FBI study about active shooter situations between 2000 and 2013 (13 years) showed police officers who engaged the shooter were wounded or killed in almost 50% of the incidents. We’re talking about individuals who are specifically trained to respond to these situations and not teachers trained over the weekend or during summer break.

     Other long-term studies have shown more permissive concealed-carry laws contribute to gun violence. Many teachers are already overwhelmed due to heavy workloads and overcrowded classrooms, and asking them to be law enforcement is not in the interest of students.

     I’ve also seen articles about schools where faculty even resigned rather than teach with guns in their classrooms. They worried not only about potential attacks by disturbed shooters but also about guns firing accidentally or getting lost. It was just yesterday where my worry was proven by a grade school teacher left a gun on the back of a toilet and it was found by three kindergarten students.

     A perfect way to outline this is what happened in the recent shooting in Parkland, Florida. We are learning day by day that the “good guy with a gun” is bullshit when a cop (a “professional” for most) with 30 years experience and two of his fellow “police resource officers” did nothing. The armed deputies assigned to the campus of a Florida high school during the deadly shooting stayed outside the building during the attack and failed to engage the shooter. If the cop who is supposed to be the person using a weapon and does not, it is asinine and ignorant to expect a teacher to be better and is there to TEACH!

     Rather than arming teachers, schools should train teams of educators to assess threats. The calls by Trump and others for guns in schools have taken the focus off things that are more effective. We need to do things that work, not that feel good. More guns on campus can lead to more accidental shootings, including two earlier this month in Minnesota and Florida, and it’s unreasonable to expect even armed staff on large campuses to be able to stop a mass shooter. We need to train our teachers how to identify these people who are a danger.

     The potential collateral damage is not worth it. There are just too many possible negative outcomes and risks that so severely outweigh the small chance that they stop an active shooter threat, where most of the death and destruction is carried out in the first few minutes. If you don’t believe me, watch here to see what can happen in this exact situation.

     These comments are not meant as a knock against teachers, nor am I by any means questioning their bravery in these situations. God knows our country has seen example after example of teachers and students shielding others from gunfire. Heroic doesn’t begin to fully explain the bravery of the teachers who have put themselves in harm’s way. I’m completely certain there are teachers willing to volunteer for this role and almost positive that some have already secretly brought a firearm into the school. I don’t question a teacher’s commitment toward protecting their students.

     However, my thought here is to bring the reality of the situation to the forefront. Politicians who are blasé about the complexity and rigorous training required for these types of engagements and who underestimate the physical, physiological and psychological toll a combat environment brings to those involved, should be forced to place themselves in these types of simulations.

     Ultimately, I’m saddened by the fact that we’ve reached a point where people in this country want teachers to arm themselves as moonlight deputies. I don’t have all the answers, but I’m confident that arming teachers isn’t the answer, now or ever.

     • ML, the teachers are VOLUNTEERS. Apparently the idea of a teacher VOLUNTEERING to be mentally vetted and police trained in firearms is mind boggling concept to the liberal left, who must assume all teachers are Resist Trump, pro-Bernie tree huggers. In Florida, 4 coward Broward County deputies including the school liaison officer hid outside and refused to go into the active shooting. Since the deputies first on the scene were unreliable, why not try training teachers willing to protect their students. Since it is volunteer, all the Resist Trump teaschers won’t have to do anything , except be be protected by others.

   • Accuracy with a firearm depends on training, and the police training is far more extensive, comprehensive and ongoing than anything that would ever be provided for teachers, including scenario practices.

     And the training is not just in how to use a weapon but how to manage stress in a deadly situation. This is not something that can be mastered in a three-day or three-week class.

     Yet even with all of their training, it’s hard for police officers to hit a target and harder still in chaotic conditions.

     The New York Police Department is the nation’s largest police force and among the best trained, yet its own study showed between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate was 18 percent for officers in a gunfight.

     New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a paper target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report.

     In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year.

     And this was more than just an inability to shoot properly or marksmanship. Police officials and law enforcement contend that the number of misses underscores the tense and unpredictable nature of these situations. For example, a 43 percent hit rate for shots fired from zero to six feet might seem low, but at that range it is very likely that something has already gone wrong, where perhaps an officer got surprised, or had no cover, or was wrestling with the suspect.

     A police officer is trained to expect to get shot at. How the hell does anybody expect a teacher to be “prepared” to return fire or shoot in defense of others?

     The National Association of School Resource Officers officially opposes arming teachers, sending out a a list of its reasons that include:

     – Law enforcement officers who respond to an incident at a school could mistake for an assailant a teacher or any other armed person who is not in a uniform.

     – Anyone who hasn’t received the extensive training provided to law enforcement officers will likely be mentally unprepared to take a life, especially the life of a student assailant.

     – Firearm skills degrade quickly, which is why most law enforcement agencies require their officers to practice on a shooting range frequently (as often as once per month), under simulated, high-stress conditions. Anyone without such frequent, ongoing practice will likely have difficulty using a firearm safely and effectively.

     – In addition to maintaining marksmanship, ongoing firearms practice helps law enforcement officers overcome the physiological response to stress than can reduce the fine motor skills required to accurately fire a weapon.

     – Anyone who possesses a firearm on campus must be able to keep it both ready for use and absolutely secure. Law enforcement officers receive training that enables them to overcome attempts to access their weapons.

     – Discharging a firearm in a crowded school is an extremely risky action, with consequences that can include the wounding and/or death of innocent victims. Law enforcement officers receive training and practice in evaluating quickly the risks of firing. They hold their fire when the risks to others are too high.

     So far the only folks who want teachers to be armed are the ones at the NRA, and their motives are beyond ignorant

     • Omg. If that gym teacher, who was killed, had a gun to shoot back he and others may be alive today. Pleanty of teachers, janitors and others are gun owners. Im sure they would rather have their weapon on them than in the bedroom drawer. They were sitting ducks. School corps/taxpayers will never pay for full time security. My suggestion, fence in the exterior and have one secured gate with armed guard.

4. dams trumps he making jobs wants to cuts my welfares downs with trumps i is strongs on frees stuffs

5. This is very, very disappointing. Criminal felony charges should be brought against these cowards:

   When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff’s deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

   https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

   • Joe. This is the whole damn point.

     You want to arm Teachers. Right? Who is gonna pay to defend them in Court when they screw up failing to stop a shooter?

     Who pays Joe?

6. Whatever happened to, “I’m only going to hire the best people?” “Carl Ichan, Carl Ichan, Carl Ichan” – Bailed out while the getting was good along with another hundred who were not so best.

   And now there’s another hundred left that couldn’t get a security clearance to clean Ron Jeremy’s bathroom at a Motel 6.

   And then there’s the second most powerful man in the world. The man quieter than a mouse pissing on cotton;

   https://youtu.be/ahpp27WAT2M

   “Leave U out, because God knows they will” – Priceless

   “Everything is changing. People are taking comedians serious and politicians as a joke” – Will Rogers

   If you only knew Will.

   Good God if you only knew….

7. Unless a teacher or administrator has intestinal fortitude, might as well give them a water pistol. Hell, BCSD appears to have several officers with no balls!!! 19 years ago at Columbine changed the approach by law enforcement to “Active Shooters”. LE go toward the threat/gunfire and neutralizes it. Again, if cowards wear a badge, this is what happens. I can’t imagine how pissed the Coral Springs PD must have been watching armed officers doing zilch. I can’t imagine either????

   • ThinBlueLine, don’t you expect the people that volunteer likely have the intestinal fortitude? I’m a recreational shooter, partial to 1911 .45s, with no LEO training. If someone breaks into my house, they will be looking at the business end of a .45 auto. I imagine their are coaches, shop class teachers, janitors and others that would be very competent to protect those they know and teach.

8. I must wonder what bone spur who has a knack for calling other people cowards and treasonous would have done in the officers situation.

   Damn the torpedoes, I’m charging in. LOL! Yeah buddy

   More likely, “He’s in there, he’s in there!”

   But this you can take to al sharpie’s bank, “I’m going to sue that “bad dude” when they catch him”

   Believe me….

9. I wonder if any Evansville voters are now wishing their tax dollars had been spent to update the sewer system rather than on building a medical school which, according to a recent C&P article will only house medical programs already existing at area Universities:

   http://www.14news.com/story/37584612/mayor-evansville-sewer-system-at-max-capacity

   Seems like the recent C&P article on the Med School bragging of 500 students know the number because they’re really not form any new medical programs, but just students from existing programs that will now be forced to go to school downtown in the hopes that they will spend, spend, spend(& maybe gamble).

   https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/2018/02/18/downtown-med-school-your-questions-answered/343504002/

10. If teachers are allowed to carry guns, you can be assured:

    1)That students will get shot by teachers
    2)The legislation will be written so that teaches will be free from any liability, similar to cops, for shooting a current or former student inside the school.
    2)Indiana will pass the law even if the majority of Hoosiers are against it.

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