Home Blog Page 7126

IS IT TRUE? March 11, 2011

18

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE? March 11, 2011

IS IT TRUE that early this morning northern Japan was struck by an earthquake that has been recorded as an 8.9 on the Richter scale?…that this is the largest earthquake in the history of Japan and the 7th largest since magnitudes have begun to be recorded?…that the human casualties at this point appear to be a very small fraction of what a smaller quake in Haiti caused last year?…that the minimization of casualties is due to good building codes and compliance?…that good and appropriate building codes and equal enforcement are good public policy?…that four nuclear plants seem to have detected and responded as designed?…that there is no better combination than good public policy, compliance, and a great early warning system to minimize the cost in human lives to natural disaster?

IS IT TRUE that Chester Downs has raised the red flag over the blighted condition of yet another City of Evansville park?…that this time it is the Vann-Pollack park in the 2nd Ward?…that Mr. Downs described the all too familiar scenario of vandalism, alcohol, gang brawling, drugs, and discarded condoms along with dysfunctional infrastructure to describe the Vann-Pollack park?…that Evansville Parks and Recreation Director Schall and 2nd Ward City Councilwoman Missy Mosby seem to be jumping on the bandwagon to try to reclaim this park that like the rest of the City of Evansville parks have crumbled from neglect during the last several years?…that it is refreshing to see elected and appointed public officials come to the realization of the state of our parks and get on about the business of trying to reclaim them?…that it warms our heart to see citizens like Mr. Downs muster the courage to come forward and sound the alarm to stop Evansville’s slide to a Detroit style meltdown?…that Mr. Downs, Dr. Neil Troost, and responsive public officials are the front line of defense in stopping further degradation?

IS IT TRUE that whoever set or enabled policies that allowed our parks to get into the dilapidated shape that strikes fear into the hearts of 12 year olds and their parents should never ever be considered fit to govern again?…that Councilwoman Mosby and Director Schall have been part of the team that has been driving this bus for several years now?…that they seem to have seen the light and are spending lots of effort to fix these problems?…that they both deserve a thank you for their recognition of these deplorable conditions and encouragement to follow through with the corrective deeds they now seem dedicated to?…that the City County Observer is proud to have been a part of the group that has sounded the trumpet on the advanced state of decay of the Evansville City Parks?

IS IT TRUE that some political types are trying to make a major issue of an e-mail sent out by City Councilman Don Walker? ….that City Councilman Walker sent an e-mail he received from a friend and forward it to others without reading it?….that we think these political types should focus on the real issues of the primary campaign and stop the stupid political name calling games?

IS IT TRUE that the Republican frontrunner to become the party’s candidate for Mayor of Evansville has publically stated that his administration would have a new Fire Chief? ….we wonder what the position of the two (2) Democratic Mayoral candidates concerning the identity of the future Fire Chief of Evansville?

IS IT TRUE that a direct report to Mayor Weinzapfel was overheard recently boasting that the north knight annexation was settled and that North Knight will soon be part of the City of Evansville with all of the privileges and obligations that go with it?…that this is not the first time that this particular direct report to the Mayor has been overheard making grandiose claims?…that this person’s track record for accuracy when boasting is about the same as flipping a coin?

Full Text of the Mayor’s State of the City Address

1

Mayor Weinzapfel’s last State of the City Speech to Rotary

Here is a link to the entire speech that Mayor Weinzapfel gave before the Downtown Rotary Club on Tuesday. It of course covers the positive accomplishments of the administration in great detail while ignoring some of the more controversial and less popular issues.

In one of the more humorous parts of the document Weinzapfel said that “Seven years ago, there was no strategic vision for creating jobs. Heck, there wasn’t even a plan that people weren’t following.” The belief among the people we have spoken with is that the Mayor is correct but that there still is not a plan that people are not following either. Similarly with the most recent downtown plan that was developed during the Lloyd Administration and still shows a baseball stadium where the District is and has no downtown Arena. The statement did however get a laugh at the expense of Mayors past and in a few years a similar line will produce a few laughs at Weinzapfel’s expense.

The Mayor chose to praise the performance of the EVSC as excellent on the very day that no schools within the EVSC were selected for 4-Star designation. The three non-EVSC schools that were recognized as 4-Star performers were not mentioned.

Some attention was paid to the demolition of some blighted homes and the Front Door Pride program. No mention was made of the 8,000 abandoned and uninhabitable homes that now grace the City of Evansville that represents an increase of 100% from the 2000 census data.

All in all the speech is a kind reminiscence of the time that Mayor Weinzapfel spent in office with minimal challenges set forth for future activities. As humans we do tend to accentuate our own positives and sanitize our bad memories. What Evansville really needs and what Mayor Weinzapfel could choose to concentrate on in his last 9 months is a good look in the mirror and a solid plan to solve our legacy problems. We encourage him to spend some time so that his successor can start from a position of knowledge.

Speech-State_of_the_City-Jonathan_Weinzapfel-03-08-11

Libertarian View on Wisconsin: The problem in Wisconsin is not unions but government

0


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

March 10, 2011

Contact: Wes Benedict, Executive Director
E-mail: wes.benedict@lp.org
Phone: 202-333-0008 ext. 222

LP Chair: The problem in Wisconsin is not unions but government

WASHINGTON – While Republicans and Democrats battle in Wisconsin over a bill to reduce the collective bargaining power of state employee unions as a means of balancing their budget, Libertarian Party Chair Mark Hinkle points out that the problem lies with government control of activities it has no business running.

Hinkle comments, “Libertarians are neither pro-union nor anti-union. We believe that the right of association and freedom of contract allows any group of people to choose to bargain collectively rather than individually. Naturally, we oppose violence and threats of such, but unions per se can play a major role in a free society. The problem is that the battle between the Wisconsin state government and state employees isn’t even remotely a free market.

“Government monopolizes many services that could and should be provided in the voluntary sector by profit-making and/or non-profit organizations. This also gives them a ‘monopsony’ as virtually the only potential employer for workers in these fields. Once someone has trained to be a teacher or prison guard, they are essentially at the mercy of government for their employment in that field. Blaming them for wanting collective bargaining representation would be comparable to siding with the Polish government against the union Solidarity headed by Lech Walesa that freed Poland in 1989 from Soviet rule. The problem is with the employer: the government.”

Hinkle considers the education budget to be the best example of a solution only Libertarians have offered:

“Far and away the largest part of the budget of the State of Wisconsin, once aid to local governments is allocated to underlying expenditures, is in the category of education. This is true of virtually all state and local governments, so it is the best example of how freedom can provide a solution. Unfortunately, government expenditures for education are driven by political considerations rather than the needs of the students. The result is outrageous costs that are not primarily for the most important ingredient in education: the teacher.

“The U.S. Department of Education calculates that the per pupil cost of K-12 education is nearly $11,000 in the 2010-2011 fiscal year. The Cato Institute, however, in a paper entitled, ‘They Spend WHAT? The Real Cost of Public Schools,’ discovered that actual spending in the districts they examined was 44 percent higher than official reports due to the failure to include various categories (such as spending financed by bond issuances). We can reasonably estimate that true spending is more than $15,000 per pupil. With class sizes, on average, exceeding 20, the total spending per classroom is probably well in excess of $300,000. Obviously, most of that money isn’t going to the teacher in the classroom. In private schools that don’t depend on taxpayers, it does: teacher pay and benefits averages nearly 80% of the total budget of the average private school. Not surprisingly, while private schools are often described as havens for the rich, public school spending per pupil is nearly DOUBLE the average private school tuition, mainly because it is a haven for administrators and other recipients of `education’ money who never step foot into a classroom.

“The answer to Wisconsin’s budget crisis, and that of governments throughout the country, is to return education to the voluntary sector. Compulsory education dominated by tax-supported schools was not established until the mid-1850s, yet literacy rates prior to that time were higher than they are today. Parents have ALWAYS valued the education of their children, and the religious and secular private schools of that time knew they’d only be paid by parents if they taught their children. Free or reduced costs for poor parents was always part of the tradition, and would be again in a country freed of massive taxation and spending.

“Returning education to the voluntary sector and eliminating compulsory funding and attendance laws, not to mention centralized bureaucratic nightmares such as the bi-partisan No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 championed by Republican President George W. Bush and the late Democratic Senator Edward Kennedy, will free teachers to be responsive to the needs of their students instead of the desires of politicians. As for how to do it quickly, a case can be made for selling all the local schools and putting the proceeds into the underfunded pension and benefits funds, then leaving the reorganization of education in the hands of the buyers. But, the workers at these schools are the ones with the strongest interest in ownership. We could just give each school to its local employees and let them decide whether to run it or sell it. Either way, the teachers, the students, the parents, and the taxpayers are all big winners.

“Education is the largest item in the Wisconsin budget, but the same principle applies to other expenditures. The legitimate debate in Wisconsin and elsewhere is not about whether the politicians or the government employee unions should win. It is why we should be stuck with only one employer sucking the money from taxpayers and then complaining when their power to decide how it is spent is not unlimited.”

The Libertarian Party platform includes the following:

2.7 Labor Markets
We support repeal of all laws which impede the ability of any person to find employment. We oppose government-fostered forced retirement. We support the right of free persons to associate or not associate in labor unions, and an employer should have the right to recognize or refuse to recognize a union. We oppose government interference in bargaining, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.

2.8 Education
Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. In particular, parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.
For more information, or to arrange an interview, call LP Executive Director Wes Benedict at 202-333-0008 ext. 222.

The LP is America’s third-largest political party, founded in 1971. The Libertarian Party stands for free markets, civil liberties, and peace. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party at our website.

IS IT TRUE Part 2, March 10, 2011

7

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE Part 2, March 10, 2011

IS IT TRUE that the Mayor Weinzapfel’s speech to the Evansville Rotary Club on the “dysfunctional nature of local government” was interesting? ….that we respectfully remind the Mayor that cities cant’ make themselves “dysfunctional”, elected officials make the cities “dysfunctional” by the political decisions they make?

IS IT TRUE the Mayor’s media relations person is in non-compliance with the State of Indiana “PUBLIC ACCESS” laws? …..that her intentional non-compliance of not sending press releases to all local media outlets shall be a hot topic during the up and coming city budget talks? ….select candidates for upcoming city council seat will also make this a public political issue on the campaign trail? ….that it seems we not only need to remind the Mayors “Minister of Propaganda” that she receives her salary from taxpayer dollars which makes her a public servant?

IS IT TRUE that the “special article written to the Evansville Courier and Press” by State Representative Gail Riecken on “Why Democrats are in Illinois” did her more political harm than good? ….we are hearing that many of Mrs. Riecken’s loyal supporters are extremely disappointed that she has cut and run to Illinois from the political responsibilities she was elected to do? …..we hear that her next open door gathering with her people of her district shall not be a pleasant?

IS IT TRUE “MOLE #3” is hearing that that select city councilmen can’t wait for John Kish to come before City Council to give them an update on present costs of the arena? ….that they are extremely interested how much he has been paid to date for personal services rendered?

IS IT TRUE “MOLE 3” is watching to see when the Evansville Water and Sewer Board will be putting on their agenda the proposed $60 to $80 million project to read our water meters by satellite?
….we also hope they will share this proposed project with members of the Evansville City Council?

IS IT TRUE we hear that City Council candidate, Dr. Dan Adams campaign is “RED HOT”? ….that City Councilman, Dr. Adams is being seen everywhere?

IS IT TRUE that we hear that last night’s meeting at the Evansville Firefighters at their Union Hall was really something? ….that this meet, greet, and answer questions with the candidates for Evansville City Council was extremely productive?….that the firefighters were told by the political types attending this meeting that they can expect that they will have a new fire chief next year?

IS IT TRUE that our Mayor Jonathan Weinzapfel was profiled on the front page of today’s Courier and Press for reading to preschool children?…that reading to young children is a great way to give them a head start on life?…that we were not aware that reading to children was an activity that the Mayor has been involved in?…that we appreciate and applaud this action and hope that Mayor Weinzapfel will continue to do this on a regular basis when the cameras and reporters are gone?

IS IT TRUE? March 10, 2011

0

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE? March 10, 2011

IS IT TRUE that many of you wrote in and emailed yesterday to ask exactly which local mainstream media outlet incorrectly reported the price of the Vision 1505 project by a factor of 9.21 or 821%?…that we contacted three different high ranking people at the media outlet and advised them of the mistake they had made in reporting?…that we made them aware of the magnitude of the error?…that no correction has been posted and that we received no response whatsoever from any of the people that we sent the message to?…that the incorrect story is still available on the website as of 7:30 AM this morning and that the following is a link to the story for those who may be curious to see?

http://www.news25.us/Global/story.asp?S=14213076

IS IT TRUE that it is irresponsible to misrepresent the cost of government projects to the public?…that a working democracy depends upon an educated, well informed, and engaged public?…that when the public is fed inaccurate information they have no ability to form opinions over government actions?…that the only route to accountability among elected officials is through accurate and transparent reporting of the financial reality of public projects?…that paying $7,677,308 to refurbish 32 apartments makes the $3,079 that the former board of directors of the Evansville Convention and Visitors Bureau spent for Christmas dinner look like a charitable event?…that penny wise and pound foolish is a poor way to operate?

IS IT TRUE that the Palestinian people now have a Venture Capital fund that will be managed for the purpose of investing in Palestinian owned technology companies in Israel?…that the amount of that fund was established with $28.7 Million much of which came from top performing public American companies?…that the Venture Capital industry grew last year by 19% to $21.8 Billion and funded 3,277 businesses in the United States?…that Evansville, Indiana continues to be one of the few metropolitan areas in this country or it seems like any country that does not have any professional venture capital firm that invests in local start-up and emerging businesses?…that this dearth of dollars for investment has been cussed and discussed by the supposed “powers that be” for over 10 years now?…that the net forward progress made from these discussions has been one great big ZERO?…that until there are new “powers that be” and a different set of puppet masters propping up the powers that be, that that big ZERO will not change?

IS IT TRUE that many rationalizations are coming out of the Indiana Democratic contingent that has continued to hole up in Urbana, Illinois to attempt to justify their choice to flee the state and take up residency in Illinois?…that there is no forgivable excuse for intentionally playing hooky from their jobs which are located in Indianapolis?…that when the City County Observer contacted a local Human Resources department about what their tolerance is when employees play hooky we were met with laughter?…that three absences within a 6 month period without a documented medical excuse results in firing?…that one thing that unions and management in all of the businesses that we have spoken with agree on is that to do your job you have to go to your job and do it?…that not even the strongest union contracts excuse workers from being fired for a three week intentional absence from work?…that our legislators need to get a grip on the reality that comes from the responsibility of holding elected office?

Palestinians get $28.7 million VC fund

0

Evansville Still has Zero Venture Capital Dollars Available to Entrepreneurs

In a first for an important region of the Middle East, the Middle East Venture Capital Fund announced today it has raised a $28.7 million fund to invest in Palestinian technology companies according to Venturebeat.com.

The fund will be based in Ramallah and it has money from a bunch of international companies, foundations and other investors. The investors include Cisco, Google, the Soros Economic Development Fund, Skoll Foundation, Jean and Steve Case, and the European investment bank.

There is no question that the region badly needs tech startups to create jobs. The question is whether the region has the infrastructure to support tech startups. One disadvantage, beyond political turmoil, is the lack of infrastructure. Cell phone data networks might solve that, but there’s no guarantee that connectivity will be uninterrupted. Another hurdle is the lack of technologically-educated workers.

Intel realized this when it set up a technology education effort back in 2008 in the region. The world’s biggest chip makers has been investing billions of dollars into chip factories in Israel for many years, but not in the Palestinian areas. Still, the area’s talent has likely been overlooked.

The fund will be managed by Saed Nashef, a software entrepreneur and industry veteran who recently returned to the region after nearly two decades in the U.S. Another manager is Yadin Kaufmann, a longtime venture capitalist in the U.S. and Israel.

IS IT TRUE? Part 2 March 9, 2011: Readers Questions about $240K apartments

2

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE? Part 2 March 9, 2011: Readers Questions about $240K apartments

IS IT TRUE that the soon to be $239,915 per unit apartment building is owned by Robert L Hart III and Mary Hart according to the Vanderburgh County Assessor’s website?…that they have owned this building since before there was a website operated by the Assessor’s office?…that the assessed value of the entire property is less than the $239,915 that are proposed to be spent on each of the 32 units that are to be refurbished?…that Mary Hart is the Pigeon Township Trustee?…that the Mayor’s official press release does not state any specific value for the amount budgeted by the Evansville Housing Authority to purchase or lease this building?…that we are quite curious as to what the Hart’s will be receiving for the building that was previously deemed to be unfit for refurbishment?

IS IT TRUE that the Evansville Housing Authority has a partner in this project?…that this partner is Aurora Incorporated that is located at 1100 Lincoln Avenue?…that the website with the staff, officers, and directors of Aurora Incorporated is at the following link?
www.auroraevansville.org

IS IT TRUE that there are many properties already owned by the Evansville Housing Authority or the Evansville Brownfields that could easily support a 32 unit apartment complex dedicated to homeless assistance?…that such a building could easily be built from scratch for substantially less than $239,915 per unit?…that the typical cost to build new habitat homes is closer to $50,000 or $1,600,000?…that is a full $6,077,308 less that is planned to be spent to create only 32 apartments in the Vision 1505 project?…that comparable existing apartments are on the market in Evansville for even less than that?…that an apartment building with 34 units is on the market in Evansville’s east side for $1,100,000?…that the Evansville Housing Authority should just take the money they have and buy existing properties rather than squandering over $6 Million to refurbish a supposed unrepairable building in a high crime neighborhood?

IS IT TRUE that sometimes common sense just seems to be missing in the public sector when it comes to spending decisions?…that for an 800% premium a slightly used car with a Kelly Blue Book value of $10,000 can be easily had for $76,000?…that buying a $10,000 car for $76,000 is just as insane as spending $7,677,308 of public money on a project that could be replaced with a purchase for $1,000,000 or less?…that squandering public money just needs to STOP?!!!!

IS IT TRUE? March 9, 2011

3

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE? March 9, 2011

IS IT TRUE that mainstream media dropped the ball again and presented a completely incorrect report on the cost of a local government sponsored low income housing project?…that one of our supposed award winning television news organizations broadcasted a story at 5 PM last night regarding the renovation of the abandoned safe house that is now called the Vision 1505 project?…that it was reported in that segment by a recognized on air reporter that the cost of the refurbishment of the 32 apartment style units will be $832,140 ($26,250 per unit)?…that when one actually reads the fifth bullet point of the Mayor’s official press release that one would learn that the $832,140 is really just the tax credit associated with the project?…that the real cost of the refurbishment of the 32 apartment units is $7,677,308 or $239,915 per apartment unit?…that an overjoyed Mayor Weinzapfel was interviewed by this reporter and stated just how pleased he was that this project could go forward?

IS IT TRUE that apartments are available for sale all over the City of Evansville for prices that range from $15,000 to $30,000 per unit?…that for the $239,915 that is budgeted per apartment for the Vision 1505 building one could purchase as many four bedroom homes on Evansville’s east side as one could ever want?…that as long as mainstream reporters make such monumental errors in reporting and Mayors get excited about overspending by a factor of 800% for homeless shelters that the City of Evansville does not have a chance to exhibit fiscal reality?…that the population will remain oblivious to insane spending as long as mainstream media fails to report accurate costs in an understandable way?…that an informed public is needed to keep government accountable?…that a misinformed public whether that misinformation is intentional or not is what causes things like $239,000 apartments to be built, $2 Million ball fields to be considered, sewers to fail for 50 years before being exposed, and a mountain of public debt to be accumulated without any significant assets to show for it?

IS IT TRUE that there is a 5 Bedroom home with nearly 4,000 square feet, an 800 square foot basement, an in-ground swimming pool, a pool house, a three car garage, and a formal library listed for only $235,000?…that the address this home is just east of Burkhardt on Lincoln Avenue?…that you can find as many deals like this as you can stand in the City of Evansville that are near the price to refurbish an apartment with government money?…that the developer of record that intends to spend more on each apartment than this house can be purchased for is the Evansville Housing Authority?…that yes, it is all taxpayer dollars being spent on this obvious boondoggle?

IS IT TRUE that three schools in Vanderburgh County were just honored with the coveted 4-Star distinction that signify that their performance is in the top 10% of the schools in Indiana by the Indiana Department of Education?…that the three schools to be named are Signature School, Evansville’s only charter high school, the Evansville Day School, a private K-12 school, and the Precious Blood School operated by the Evansville Catholic Diocese?…that no EVSC schools were awarded this distinction?…that select public schools from Posey, Gibson, Warrick, Pike, Spencer, and Dubois County were all honored with this 4-Star distinction?…that as long as the maybe this failure to be honored is part of the reason that the population of the City of Evansville keeps dropping and the economy continues its 50 year trickle down from the high that Evansville attained in the 1950’s?…that this is a part of the State of the City that never seems to find its way into anyone’s State of the City addresses?

Judge Rules that Anonymous Posters are Subject to Disclosure and Legal Liability

1

Pinnochio

Damaging Posts not Protected by Journalistic Source Laws

In a recent ruling an Indianapolis judge has ruled that hiding behind a screen name when posting comments on newspaper blogs will not shield the poster of legal liabilities associated with his or her postings.

This is a different position than news organizations have typically taken when it comes to the postings of anonymous bloggers. Now if someone who calls themselves “IMAFOOL” posts something that is false and causes damages to a person’s reputation, then the source on which “IMAFOOL” posted will be required to release the IP address of “IMAFOOL” so that the real name of the person can be the subject of any lawsuit filed that covers the words posted.

This ruling will have no effect on the day to day political banter among posters who disagree but will pierce the veil of secrecy that anonymous posting has provided for false and damaging posting.

[Untitled]_2011030707504200

IS IT TRUE? March 8, 2011

6

The Mole #??

IS IT TRUE? March 8, 2011

IS IT TRUE that the Indiana Democratic delegation from the House of Representatives is now discussing the possibility of staying in Illinois until the current legislative session is completed?…that if they follow through on that threat that over 80% of the pay that they are receiving for being members of the Indiana House will have been earned while “working” in another state?…that those “wages” will be subject to taxation in Illinois?…that these Indiana legislators may even be deemed to be residents of Illinois for income tax purposes?…that residents of Illinois are not eligible to hold state of Indiana elected offices?…that these people were elected by the people of their districts to do their job in the Indiana Statehouse in Indianapolis?…that their failure to do so SHOULD disqualify each and every one of them from continuing to hold office?…that these Democrats are a poor example for our children and for our workforce?…that if there is a behavior clause in their agreements it should be invoked to be rid of them?…that Indiana true to form does not have a RECALL procedure in place like many other states?…that Indiana needs to get busy and put a RECALL procedure into place and to prosecute these AWOL officials to the full extent of any laws that we have to prevent legislative extortion?

IS IT TRUE that Indiana Congressman Joe Donnelly was recently interviewed about the state of Indiana’s manufacturing sector?…that he stated in that interview that there are many $20+ per hour jobs that are going unfilled in Indiana because there are no people available to fill those jobs that are properly trained to do them?…that the days of having a pulse and a insider connection as a ticket to a good job are over forever?…that the good jobs are still available but that they now go to people who are properly educated and trained as opposed to someone who is hooked up through crony connections?

IS IT TRUE that the only jobs that appear to be immune to having a need for education and ability are those jobs where the hiring takes place at the ballot box?…that somewhere in Indiana there is someone with an elected job who has a criminal record, did not complete high school, is completely incapable of doing the job, and refuses to show up for work?…that such a person was most likely encouraged to run for office by a crony who wanted to make a puppet of them?…that this person cannot be removed from office by RECALL because Indiana does not have such a provision in the law?

IS IT TRUE that “MOLE #3” was correct when he predicted that 4th Ward City Councilwoman, Connie Robinson and 5th Ward City Councilman, John Friend indeed push the Weinzapfel Administration to put up an additional $100,000 to spruce up our city parks?

IS IT TRUE that select members of the local “Union Brotherhood” are pushing to help get a certain female candidate elected as a 3rd Ward City Council member? ….that rank and file Union members and loyal Democratic Party workers are amazed that they are not supporting present City Councilman Don Walker for that seat? ….that this political decision not to support a retired union executive and leader may hurt the chances of a Democrat being elected the 3rd Ward City Council seat?….that the local “Tea Party” group may have something to say about this issue?