Letter to the Editor
In my role as Health Officer for Vanderburgh County it would be derelict of duty if I failed to comment on the proposed No-Smoking Ban Ordinance. The Vanderburgh County Board of Health unanimously supports a comprehensive ordinance to ban smoking in all public places, including all restaurants, bars, private clubs and gaming facilities.
We can talk about how smoking affects the body and how second-hand smoke has a significant role as well, but this information is well known and has established evidence to support the facts. Obviously, some operators of bars, etc. choose to ignore the evidence even though they place themselves, their employees and their patrons at risk. Their claims are made in the name of “freedom of choice,†when it is, in fact, perceived financial gain.
The reality of the situation is that this problem is now of epidemic proportions. More people die every year from the effects of smoking than any epidemic the world has ever seen. If the Health Department and the entire health systems allowed any other epidemic of this magnitude to get out of hand, we would all be fired! The fatality numbers are staggering. It is regrettable that our federal government continues to subsidize the tobacco industry at the same time health departments are suffering from budget cuts.
One of my favorite restaurants recently closed its doors after many years of serving the public. They had chosen to be a smoking establishment and advertised so. One day my family and I went in about 2:00 p.m. to eat a late lunch. Nearly every chair was taken by people drinking coffee and smoking. We sat down but couldn’t stand the polluted air and left. Seventy-seven percent of our population doesn’t smoke now. Twenty-three percent do–and the percentage is falling. Simple math should tell the owners of these establishments that a no-smoking ban will eventually help them economically.
We are concerned about the health of the citizens of our county. We are working on the challenges of obesity, lack of exercise, drug usage, alcoholism, homicide and suicide. These are all behaviors that account for many deaths and/or suffering. Yet, smoking continues to be the Number #1 cause of preventable death in the U.S.
Join me in urging our elected officials to do the right thing for all of our citizens–and not to give in to special interest groups.
Ray Nicholson, MD
Health Officer, Vanderburgh County
Good piece, well said.
Thank you Dr Nicholson.
Now if we can break the City’s addiction to Casino money, we can win a smoke-free Evansville. …
If we all stop smoking would that exacerbate the obesity problem? Maybe we should treat the overweight among us the same way we treat smokers, shuttling them off to businesses that do not serve minors, segregating them from those of us who eat responsibly. But wait, a big chunk of the obesity problem is among people under the age of 21! Should we treat them as if they were adults? There are instances in which Americans can find themselves confronting smoking and over eating in a manner similar to the Nazis who ran Germany. There were many health nuts who surrounded Hitler, and they were not shy about implementing harsh methods to cure their society’s ills.
In other words, look before you leap: liberty and freedom are fragile notions.
Overweight people do not pose a health risk to others as smokers do. That is unless an overweight person falls on you.
We can easily break the addition to the casino money. Just raise taxes about 50% and there you have it. You go first.
50%? I don’t believe taxes would go up 50% if Aztar left. They may go up slightly but the real ramifications would be the halt to capital improvement projects.
I support Aztar but only if they do it ethically. If Aztar were to start to prey upon those with gambling addictions or continue to press for a smoking exemption (they are doing this), then I don’t support them. Outside of that, they do good for the community although our three gov’ts have wasted the funds so badly you don’t even realize it.
If you look at the capital improvement projects we have undertook which include a zoo tram route on ground that was sinking and an LST dock that is practically in KY (some say it is)I don’t really think none of these are worth getting lung cancer over.
If the city council is really that concerned about Aztar’s revenues, they will invest in Aztar. This includes developing the land around it. I’m sorry but an adult book store and crushed gravel yard aren’t going to bring anyone to Aztar.
On the flip side, a ballpark accounts for approximately 1500 hotel nights a year and would cost around $25 million-the same price tag on the widening of Green River Road which will do nothing but cause more urban sprawl which will waste more money.
We need to worry about getting more Aztar money brought into the city instead of the county or state. Do this, and this frivolous argument over a smoking exemption being needed is gone.
If the city had to replace $10 M in taxes that would amount to only about $80 per year for each resident. If $80 per year constitutes a 50% increase in taxes then Evansville is in more trouble than any one has ever thought it is.
The 50% was a joke. Don’t forget the taxes from the casino are just the icing on the cake. The real problem comes in when people lose their job and can’t afford their homes and other nice things their paychecks afford them. Not to mention the trickle down effect it would have on local businesses that rely on their business with casino aztar to stay afloat. (no pun intended)I would hate to be a member of the city councel and enact an ordinance the places the city and its finances in a bad position. Oh wait maybe they can go to the non smoking folks for some “guaranteed votes” again.
The most direct loss in taxes from Aztar would amount to about $3M in the worst case and would eventually recover. As for the 200+ jobs that have been stated to be jeopardized that is painting a worst case picture too. The more likely numbers are $1M down in taxes and maybe 50 – 70 layoffs in the early days and then seeing that rise back to previous levels or above as people adjust to it. Smokers will still gamble and some non-smokers who like to gamble but would not endure the smoke will start going to the boat.
The real wild card for Aztar long term is more about Ellis Park becoming a casino than it is about smoking. It is doubtful that Evansville is big enough to be a 2 casino town. How to react to whatever Governor Beshear can do across the bridge is of major importance.
Liberty for all!!
It is and should remain a personal choice.
Thank you Dr. Nicholson. Everyone deserves the right to work in a safe, smokefree workplace. Secondhand smoke is deadly. It’s time for our Evansville city council to do the right thing and pass this ordinance and protect all workers and patrons and give them safe, smokefree air.
I can’t support anything that will cause people to lose their livelihood and unnecessary economic consequences because of other people’s crusade. If the impact would be neutral, I’d agree with you doctor. However, based on what I’ve understood from both sides, it appears there clearly is a huge social impact to many people who willingly work and enjoy their jobs and the customers who will go elsewhere and cost them their jobs.
I just can’t support that with a clear conscience where the evidence is so clear to hurt so many people.
I understand the plight of Dr. Nicholson. However, I believe in the right that each one of us have to select how we live our lives, how we support our families and to do what makes us happy. Telling ~280 employees at Casino Aztar that they no longer have the job that they chose and placing many of them on unemployment is not their choice, it is yours. We all have the freedom to voice our opinion, what we don’t have is the right to force our opinion.
If an adult wants to go to casino aztar and be entertained at the tables, smoke a cigar and have a cocktail, then they should be able to. If an adult does not want to be frequent an establishment because of the smoke, they clearly don’t have to.
Think about where this community and specifically the downtown area were just 16 years ago! I would not even drive downtown. We now have so many accomplishments to be proud of in our community and people have noticed. Just drive or walk down our beautiful new Riverfront and greenway to see for yourself, especially on a warm sunny day. None of this would have been possible without Casino Aztar and their commitment to this community. I’m excited to see what else can be accomplished! Don’t throw opportunity away during such difficult economic times for a personal issue! As adults, we should be able to make informed decisons and not have them dictated by government. No one has to visit or be employeed by the casino, bars, private clubs or other unless they choose.
Companies and individuals take a risk to enter into a business under a certain set of rules. Public officials now want to change the rules that will affect the livelyhood of the business owner and the individuals who work for that establishment. People who don’t smoke have the choice to either frequent a smoking establishment or not, just as you did in your story above. Since your such and “expert on the affects of smoking” i would also like to hear your “expert” opinion on Coffee, Meat, Sugar, Sun Exposure, Vitamins, Pet Dander, and the deadly PED’s that are plaguing the sporting industry. Sarcasm intended….
I smoked for years, I have the scars on my lungs to prove it. I stopped-one day, after being very ill from them (hospitalized) I was done. I didn’t want them anymore, I always hated how badly I needed them. I tried every product, couldn’t quit. When I couldn’t stand it anymore, I quit. Anyone who smokes WILL eventually quit-to take a dirt bath. Nothing we do will stop them.
I avoid places where others smoke. I can’t stand the odor. I don’t go. I’m lucky, I’ve been free of them 3 years now. If they want to stink up the Casino, feel free-I never go there, children don’t go there-it’s designed to be a den of iniquity-let ’em smoke!
I too am an ex-smoker. I typically make my choice to patronize non-smoking restaurants and “vote” with my dollars. However, I do also patronize several smoking businesses – BY CHOICE. I don’t need government to make my decision for me. I personally find it offensive that government officials think they need to champion this cause on my behalf. Any establishment in Evansville that allows smoking is, by current ordinance, an 18 and over facility – which means that workers and customers are adults.
Exactly where does Joe Wallace get all of his facts? Will Aztar rebound after one year of smoking like other casinos did??? Did you SEE the presentation at the City Council? No offense, but I don’t see managing a gaming business that employs thousands of workers on your resume, Joe.
I’ll stick to the concern of what looks like significant economic impact to the city, but (and most importantly) the fact that I can’t ever support a public policy that likely costs over 200 people their jobs as I stated earlier… That sentiment still holds true for me if it’s “only 50-70 layoffs”. What a pompous statement for you to make!
First of all with this situation there are no facts. There are initial conditions and assumptions that are used to make projections. My projections are based on multiple inputs with respect to what has happened in other locales over time when smoking was ceased. Obviously my assumptions are different than those made in the presentation at the City Council. I am also not in any position to take actions with respect to employment levels at Aztar. I am in no position to do things to make my projections come true as Aztar’s management can.
My projections are simply an outsiders view of the future based on the same facts of the past that everyone has available to them.
I stand strongly behind my statement that the biggest wild card is what happens or does not happen at Ellis Park.
I’m still scratching my head on where your “multiple inputs” are coming from? Aztar shows how the state of IN compared to IL in the first year of the smoking ban. That is a fact. While one could argue that MAYBE Illinois had a “worse” recession than Indiana (I don’t see it, personally, but that’s an opinion), but I don’t know how someone would believe that they had 20x “worse” of a recession than Indiana, and that’s exactly how much “worse” their gaming revenues decreased during the same time.
Look, you’re going to believe your passion and opinion, and I respect that. But to say that you’re basing your opinion on facts in the face of what we can physically see happening as fact in Illinois is ludicrous.
For starters I have not based anything on just Illinois vs. Indiana or Metropolis vs. Evansville. Las Vegas has many casinos and some are now non-smoking. There are successful casino businesses that are smoking and some that are non-smoking. A business model can be made with respect to both situations. I am actually going there tonight and will be staying in a non-smoking property that is sold out. Multiple inputs are multiple locations and multiple industries that are effected. Then there are the simple assumptions that one has to make that influence the outcome. Of course if one assumes that the Metropolis numbers will repeat themselves in Evansville no real analysis is needed and the expected result will mirror what happened in Metropolis. The simplest model for Aztar is of course a model that has no change associated with it making projections easier and operations predictable. If I were Ward I may well be opposing this on the basis of predictability and stability. However if Ellis Park came online I would be looking at how to differentiate the gaming experience and that differentiation would involve considering going non-smoking. After all in such a world 80% of the adult public would be better served by a non-smoking casino while 20% who smoke could go to Ellis. I would rather cater to the 80%. It would be interesting to see what kind of plans that Aztar could put together for long term growth as a non-smoking casino. I would be willing to bet that it can be done. I am also certain that the short term disuption will cause negative growth in the near term.
I don’t think I stated anywhere that Illinois had a 20x worse recession than Indiana. It is probably closer to 2x or 3x. It is not to be ignored however that a big loan portfolio from Chicago has been blamed for sinking Integra Bank.
Comparing casinos in Las Vegas to a casino in Evansville is like comparing apples to oranges.
People are people where ever you go and the smoking rates among the general population are between 3 to 1 and 5 to 1 in favor of non-smokers all over the world. Cancer does not discriminate based on geography.
I would guess Joe Wallace’s “multiple inputs” come from the supporters of a smoking ban (who by the way ignore all logical facts when it comes to the loss of business). Would love to see the up to date “mulitple Input Facts” you keep refering to.
Joe, you’re saying that there is data that shows that attendance at Casinos that went smoke-fee rebounded after a year or so? So therefore you are saying that Aztar’s presentation was a half-truth? If so, did the smoke-free side present this data to the City Council? Can you provide links to backup this claim?
If true, I think it suggests two things:
1. Most hardcore smokers may choose to travel an extra distance to another casino for a while, but they eventually return to their nearby casino.
2. The amount of people who never return to the non-smoking casino is eventually offset by people who prefer to visit a smoke-free casino.
I do not in any way want to infer that my friend Ward Shaw was telling half truths. Economic prognostication is not an exact science and the past is often no more than prologue for the future. Ward and I while friends are on opposite sides of this issue. When putting together an economic projection there are ranges of assumptions all of which have some real probabiltiy. As we both have preferred outcomes I would advise people to consider his projections to be coming from valid assumptions for a worst case scenario and mine to be coming from a best case scenario. For instance two of the most influential assumptions are 1) how much revenue will be lost due to smokers reduced gaming and 2) how much revenue will be gained from non-smokers who have thus far chosen to stay away from Aztar because of smoke. If these assumptions are each varied by a range of only 10% the immediate profitability of the Aztar operation will vary by enough to predict a layoff range of between 70 and 220. Both my assumptions and Wards are within realm of possibility. Neither are absolute. Just look at it that way.
Glad to see you support a layoff of between 70 and 220 people.
I do not like to see anyone lose a job. There are times when it can be for the greater good. Lets take for instance the troops coming home from Iraq. Many are coming home to unemployment, so ending the war essentially caused some of our soldiers to lose their jobs. Do you support putting 50,000 troops out of a job to end that war? I say ending the war is for the greater good and will save American lives and is thus worth doing. A similar statement could be made with respect to people who lose a job from a smoking ban. I am quite certain that science has shown many more deaths from exposure to second hand smoke happened during the Iraq war than there were American soldiers who were killed in Iraq.
Any job lost is not just a loss to the person, but the persons family and the community they call home. Smoking and patronizing a smoking facility is a personal choice. Frankly it is not your choice how i live my life. You make your choices and I will make mine.
The folks that own these businesses paid for them with blood, sweat, and tears and were given a set of rules that they knowingly had to run their business by. How many of those tavern owners would have placed their hard earned money down if they would have been told that smoking would not be allowed in their establishment? Probably very few. Why not leave the existing establishments alone, and place the restriction on those new businesses? At least they will know what they are getting into.
Much is said about gambling in the blogs-yet the supporters of the ban are willing to “gamble” or risk the loss of income to the city (which involves MUCH more than the taxes that Aztar pays) millions in lease payments that are based on admittance, community contributions, jobs etc
The news is currently proudly announcing that a company in Owensboro is spending $20M to provide 20 new jobs over the next few YEARS! But you are willing to sacrifice 280 jobs beginning April 1 in Evansville =$6,500,000 dollars in lost wages PER YEAR, resulting in lost health insurance, homes, cars etc – your tax dollars will also have to pick up this tab (that $80 per person is growing, huh?)
I don’t like roller coasters, so I don’t ride them
If I don’t want to be subjected to something. I don’t put myself in that position. If you do not want to be around smoke-do not put yourself in that postion-but reserve your right to make that choice.
Supporters of the ban need to realize that Aztar will be the ONLY casino in the state that is non-smoking-the ONLY casino in Indiana-that is an unfair advantage and our community will suffer the consequences.
Casinos currently under a ban in other states are fighting to overturn their bans and they have not recouped losses to their business. their state and their city-nor will they ever no matter the contradictory information that the the supporters state-read the facts! Don’t listen to the folks with an agenda
Look up Metropolis Casino, Illinois reports -know what you are speaking about –
Leave the choice to enter a smoking facility to the individual -follow the state’s lead in exempting Casino floors.
P.S.-Guarantee Ellis or any other Kentucky gambling facility will be smoking. Place a bet on?
I will defer to the facts on this one! Metropolis has been waiting for more than 4 years to “bounce back”. Look it up! I agree that Kentucky gaming is an additional threat to Casino Aztar.
Many businesses have been down by 20% or even more during the recession with zero sensitivlity to smoking laws. I do not dispute what has happened at Metropolis as fact but do not base the future of Aztar on the past of Metropolis. How much of the Metropolis contraction is from unempoyment and fear within the general economic conditions? If Metropolis would have gone non-smoking in say 1996 when the economy was expanding and wealth was being accumulated the result may well have been positive.
Metropolis is not the only example of how a smoking ban negatively impacts casino business. I believe it was the one used as it is most relevant to Aztar’s customer base as pointed out by Mr. Shaw. Also, Illinois in general suffered a double digit decline while other midwest states around them without a smoking ban continued to show annual growth. Economic conditions weren’t that inconsistent.
I don’t think that we are comparing apples to apples when comparing Metropolis (IL) to Aztar because we do not know the total economic conditions of that area compared to Evansville. They may have higher unemployment, or lower gross income for example which would definitely impact the years being compared (2007-2011 approx)since this is the timeframe of the recession.
We all have read lately in the Courier that Evansville has faired better than much of Indiana with holding jobs and adding them. Evansville is noted for being able to stay more level financially due to its large number of small and medium sized businesses rather than a few large ones, which, if they slow or stop, would be devastating. We all know that Illinois is not as stable financially as Indiana. This trickles down to all businesses.
In short, I think that to say that the reason for the percentage of difference in business between the two casinos is smoking does not present a strong cause and effect relationship.
We could say that since smoking and gambling are addictions, that the people in Evansville have a more addicting nature and give up other things (You name it: clothes and food for their children, paying their medical bills, keeping up their homes/ apartments etc.)
We have a great giving nature here in Evansville and help as many people as we can in need. Maybe in some strange way, we support Aztar and its patrons by filling in for the gambling money lost by taking care of those people and their families in other aspects of their lives. Farfetched? Sure, but just as farfetched as ignoring the monumental health costs and personal losses caused by smoking. And you and I pay for those costs no matter who incurs them.
Don’t be sold a one-sided bill of goods. If you think that this is a personal choice issue, think again. If you think that this is a jobs issue, think again. It is so much broader and wider and taller than all that has been mentioned here and before this post.
The sad thing is that the city did not view the donations from Aztar as “extra”. They incorporated that money into its budget and planned for it. At some point, that dependency has to stop, and it may abruptly stop sooner than we would like. Either way we have to begin planning for (1) a vastly different budget (2) an Ellis casino (3) continuing and rising health costs for our citizens. Brace for all three.
Isn’t Joe Wallace on the board of that Evansville Smoke Free group? If its the same Joe Wallace than why is anyone giving any credit to these columns? They are obviously slanted. Mr. Wallace has an agenda he is trying to push and it looks like hes using the CCO to do it. For somebody thats always hollerin about “conflict of interest” this sure seems hypocritical. The CCO has always been pretty staight up as far as I can tell. But this looks fishy. Dont sell out CCO
I am indeed on the board of Smokefree Communities and an only writing responses under my own name in the comment section. I have not even published an editorial position on the subject. Why don’t you sign your own name to your rebuttals. The CCO of which I am a contributor to the content of is and hopefully always will be straight up. Citizen Joe is making these comments. Writer Joe is staying out of this fracus on the CCO. If I ever do an editorial paper on the CCO regarding this subject it will be along with an opposing position paper from another author.
By the way not a single person who has attacked or called me names has used their real name.
Hey Dude, so what if Wallace is on the board of the Evansville Smokefree group. Most of the people refuting him and maybe you are members of the management team of Aztar. If everyone with an agenda on this subject is dismissed then all Aztar management and the employees who are being threatened by their own management with layoffs should be dismissed as well.
And Connie Robinson? Give me a break, she built an entire business on selling paper cups and toilet paper to Aztar as a minority owned and female owned business. If it were not for Aztar her business that pays for all of those fancy cars would not even exist. What business does anyone who is that dependent have voting on a smoking ban?
How about last time with Curt John, BJ Watts, and Missy Mosby all having a financial interest in keeping the smoking going. Can the Evansville City Council even muster an unconflicted majority?
The Nazis had a war on cancer and tobacco as well. I’m glad we have health officials and elected folks looking out for us. What a crazy concept…people governing themselves…that would be too radical. A free country certainly hasn’t been apart of our success or exceptionalism.
Comparing a public health issue like smoking restrictions to Nazi Germany is an insult to every descendant of any member of our military service who fought to end that murderous regime. The Nazi’s also practiced genocide, selective breeding of human beings, and demanded absolute obedience. A smoking ordinance is most certainly not a slippery slope to genocide and forced sterilization. Please try to make realistic comparisons and you may be taken seriously.
Sir, this is a great example because liberties no matter how small are not all removed at once. My comparison was made as a warning to those who are willing to throw liberties aside for public health. Life in the persuit of happiness is full of risks.
The most important liberty is private property including a person’s body or a place of business for example. If the owner wants smoking or non-smoking it should be the left up to the property owner. I would suspect that most would have non-smoking these days and we should have no reason to call for Government intervention. The reason why Goverment should not intervene is because these issues would naturally be resolved and give consumers the freedom to choose where they go and where they will spend their money.
Not sure why you mentioned the military. I don’t believe a person who has served to protect freedom should come home and have less freedom such as a smoking ban.
Personally I like to eat at a place without smoke. But, I’m more afraid of people restricting liberties than second hand smoke.
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