IS IT TRUE Weekend Feb 1-2 #1


IS IT TRUE that Mayor Winnecke proudly announce the City of Evansville’s location for the the “official and subsidized” site for the IU Medical School and to no one’s surprise that is in downtown Evansville?…the site proposed is the 6 block area bordered by Locust, 6th, Cherry, and 4th Streets that contains just over 17 acres?…there are several operating businesses in that area including D-Patrick, the Welborn Clinic, Townsgate Media, and Just Rennies?…there are more but these are the big ones?…the City while announcing that they have options on all of the properties will still have to make the purchases to make this happen?…back when Mayor Weinzapfel was wanting to use half of that same area for the arena it was well known that the D-Patrick price was why the arena was moved?…it will be interesting to see just how that price rumored to have been about $10 Million has done due to its proximity to the shiny new Ford Center?…wouldn’t it be something to hear the spin for if the Ford Center has caused the D-Partick property and the others to depreciate in its first 2 years of operation?

IS IT TRUE just to get a handle on the size of the golden lot we did some measurements of some other local entities that may give our readers a little more perspective?…the downtown Deaconess campus is 20 acres, and the Warrick County Deaconess Complex is 55 acres?…the old University of Evansville footprint with Walnut, Weinbach, Lincoln, and Rotherwood as boundaries is 35 acres?…both the Promenade and the Warrick County Medical Park exceed 100 acres?…if IU is expansion centric the downtown site is dead on arrival?…if acreage means little or nothing to IU then the downtown site will be a part of the horserace?…if IU is sensitive to close by living quarters for the reportedly 3,600 jobs (Winnecke words) and 2,000 students the campus will attract then the downtown site is DOA as well?…it will be interesting to see this drama play out?

IS IT TRUE that the State of the Union address has not moved the job approval rating of President Obama one iota on the Real Clear Politics average?…that is quite unusual since the SOTU usually provides a positive bump for whomever makes the speech?…that probably speaks very much to the high probability that Americans that support the President will not be moved, that people who oppose the President won’t either, but more importantly that most Americans have tuned out to the President without regard to what he may say?


  1. IU Downtown is the best long-term vision for our community. Urban campuses around the country create vibrant communities.

    I just hope certain people on the city council don’t spend their energy trying to defeat the downtown school because they are also running for mayor.

    • It turns out that the City Council was not privy to the proposal, as the article in the publication whose name is not to be spoken here, quotes Hizzoner as saying he will be “bringing them up to speed” in the next week.
      The site choice is not up to anyone except the committee from IU, but the City Council would have to approve a bond issue to exercise the options. I wonder how the options were purchased, if they were. I truly don’t think a responsible City Council will go along with the costly plan, and I don’t think it has to do with anyone running for Mayor. Hopefully, another site will be chosen, and we’ll be spared the ensuing blood-letting.

      • “I wonder how those options were purchased?”
        Probably by the Redevelopment Commission,–they pretty well have Carte Blanche to do whatever they (the Politicians) decide they “want”.

  2. “it will be interesting to see this drama play out?”

    Indeed, indeed. Is it true that anyone who has read the RFP through clear eyes is embarrassed by this proposal? Is it true that the embarrassing proposal may well be chosen, if the corruption of politics-as-usual carries over to those who will make the decision, because there are many local political “heavy hitters” that have a vested interest in downtown? Is it true that attracting the school downtown may well be the Mayor and HCW’s last best hope to gain financing for the hope-for hotel?

    • Good point on HCW financing. But no one has yet explained to me how a University is a boon to a hotel. Students and faculty won’t stay there. They won’t have a sports team. Maybe the occasional out of town lecturer, but a Uni isn’t going to be much of a hotel draw.

      • They’re using the hotel to try to justify this but really what they’re trying to do is keep the apartments in the hotel plan alive because they are less likely to happen than the hotel but the city doesn’t want to bring up the apartments part of the plan because it will rehash old debates about whether they should be in the plan or not.

        This right here is what happens when you make a master plan and then sit it on a shelf never to be opened again. If this mess goes through, the Ford Center will be surrounded by 6 gov’t stimulated projects (victory, civic center, centre, library, hotel, and now this), and only two of these facilities should be next to each other.

        This plan leaves many questions…

        – Why build away from the METS Bus Terminal/Y?

        – Name one lot or one direction where the Ford Center now has room to inspire growth and development (i.e entertainment, eating, and retail)

        – Just how much is the city ponying up for the Dpat property?

        Really, the only pluses I can name is the Deaconness Clinin if it stays and the fact that this will be away from Tropicana. Other than that, I see this creating a bigger mess of incompatible development that what already exists.

      • We both know that, but I think panic has set in and Winnecke and HCW are grasping at every possible straw.

  3. Is that 17 acres accounting for the Clinic, which, according to reports, will remain standing?

  4. I said before that IU is not caring a rip about all extra intrigues. 17 acres is a good start becuase any expansion can be done by knocking down Welborn, which of course will require anyother city subsidy. I doubt that dealreship can remain open if the lots are acquired and O’Daniel is going to have to be compensated for that loss as well. There is only around $90 million in bonding left for the city that has yet to issue a clean audit in going on 3 years and has a TIF that has yet to generate sufficnent revenue to fund its obligation.

    The idea you can keep that eyesore clinc open next to a new med school is stupid. A new med school building next to a section 8 housing tower is not very atractive. It is not a question of if but just when these two buildings go away.

    Lots of ifs and buts and IU hates those things. I do appulade the effort to repurpose this land but I’m not sure we have enough probability of things improving enough for the city to do what IU may want to do to mitigate these and other weaknesses.

      • Brad, question; You would probably know this.

        If one opposes or disagrees with some these certain choices,as a scientific assessment,would it be uncommon? To be, followed,harassed,by phone,or internet,or observed where one stays or goes while there,by vehicles with some goofy looking people sporting “temporary dealer plates” that trace to “contemporary locations”,that say “contemporaries” including other types maybe even municipal purchased and operated vehicles of those as defined in the simultaneous,however, inconspicuous aspect of the issues opposed or agreed to,not so much,as so,thereof

        {“sicut aliis observant.hoc autem est substantia,coelestium equinum onus debitum et sic oportet quod.”}

        Why I’m a bit leary of the stinky flowers in your local politics.
        How can one do business in a climate as such? Its no wonder the place is on the collapse.

        I was taught as a young fella what actually flew out the broken windows downtown wasn’t just pigeons and the homeless,it was the ability to sustain legitimate private retail business without proper throughput transportation logistical infrastructure.

        Seems it was waxed for sure when they built that “concrete bastion of doom and discourse” slapped down the center of the inputs of commerce capillaries.
        Stroked out the retail commerce,with a giant slab of useless concrete and confusion.
        Equated, then to digging a huge hole in the middle of your downtown,all the way through its collapsing environmental infrastructures. Clear,down,to the old mine shaft tunnels,and under the saturated soils in evansville’s downtown. Yea,into the river sands,and finally to some shaky bedrock on an active branch of the massive new madrid fault line,then they left it open,for time,in a sense.

        Grampa,said if everybody tossed silver by the coin they’ll never fill that useless hole of demise enough to fill the mess to street level again,none the less,pay for the mistake in the next 500 years.

        Apparently the contemporaries are still working on that,hell I’d help’em if they would find a vision with the means to ever fill and balance the damned hole in under 500 years,as well.

        Political climate change,forecasted.

        “an empty stomach isn’t a good political advisor.”(Albert Einstein)

        Honores mutant mores

        the honors change the customs

        (power corrupts)

        • I’m sure you have an idea of the answer to a question I’ve wondered about. Do those old mine shafts and river sands make building very far “up” a more expenive than average proposition? Wouldn’t that be especially true when building to “earthquake proof” specs that one would surely expect a medical facility to adhere to?

          • Yep,afraid so, reason the big E parking garage sunk’em,likely. Thats really not much of a design challenge for the right plan. Cost is more though,but that wouldn’t be my concern with the location,face it,the utilities and sewers,plus the environmental balance per forward infrastructure needs a major upgrade,for either proposed site hotel,or med school downtown.
            Out east they do not,out west they do not,other places they do not,hell build it as close to Owensboro as you can and still be able to call it Indiana it’ll work fine.

            While the rest of town thats footing the infrastructure replacement costing incrementally get just service that continues to be at the level of the so dubbed “duct tape hootie fix” solution referred to here by Cuz Spuds neighbors.

            My family there finds that to be flat out unacceptable and its why I would even spend my, otherwise, useful time trying to help visualize a solution that kinda speaks to or adds value provisional to the rest of the metro community that is strapped with the damned bill for downtown growth,that they really have little primary use for anyway.

            They didn’t need it 20 years ago,they hardly use it now. For destination entertainment they all travel and get outta town to find some relief from the infrastructure mess there. Its force fed through location orientation and sustained pocket vectored activities that are not serving the common citizen,and thats bullcrap,for the rest of the venues around town.period.

            I haven’t ever heard of anybody that doesn’t have family there ever making plans to tour for a week or more, ain’t happening unless someone dies and a will read or something.Most global business is on a bubble,or under one there.
            The place really as a national look see doesn’t have much but the attention some of this one sided political garbage development sports. People laugh at it,its a joke really,even the ones in your capital
            Hell most places develop with a overall plan for improved living standards and sustainable careers through actual growth with purpose.

            Sorry I just don’t see that with the present crew,they might mean well, as they see it in their bubble,the thing is at that stage where that is now with revenues implosion from surrounding progress is about to pop the living hell out of it.

            Who the hell,when they look at evansville’s riverfront now,will choose that mess compared to what they built with purpose right up the river.

            Evansville,s off track,and downtown evansville is keeping it there.
            The blending to the east and west and north isn’t going to stop,people migrate where it serves their purpose,not some elses expectation of what they want that to be. Always have,always will.

            The basic utilities costing mess,and your citywide collapsing infrastructure are major drivers,so solving that while improving everyones footprint is sticking out like a bunch of little kids reactive conclusions,through impressions.

            The busy little kids with purpose,see some of the neighborhood bullies bed sheets flapping on the clothes line every morning.don’t say anything just go about their days business.

            Everybody in wee little the neighborhood knows exactly why the sheets are drying on the line, who slept on’em and why they are there ,every single day. They just don’t want the self serving,self conscious bully morons to pick on them for saying something about it.
            As kid I actually liked the bullies,they were the only ones I could knock the daylights out of,when they picked on my buds, and not get to much punishment myself for it.

            EKB,Im sorry for the venting,however things happening to people of mine there pretty much caused it,thinking some jerks and jerkettes are about to see some real honest balance applied,and sustained from outside the region. (“political corrections”)

            “pax,ut vos etiam amicus meus”

            “Find peace,rest well my friend”

      • Brad, gentrification, like feces, “happens.” Kennedy and Buckner are not assets to an “up and coming” area. I’m not about to shell out a couple of grand a month to live in an apartment located where I can spit on moth-eaten public housing. Somebody even mentioned that Central Library would be an asset to the Med School. Not only does the Library not house the sort of references Med students need, has anybody taken a good look at some of the regular patrons of the establishment? I was trapped in the place for a couple of hours about a year ago, waiting for my grandson who was attending a program there. I mean, its not like I could go shopping to kill time. Suffice it to say that I have a good idea of where the old Greyhound Bus Station crowd hangs out now. These days they can even get on “dating sites” thanks to computer availability. There were lots of good, normal, non-creepy folks there, too. I am not slamming all of the regular patrons of Central Library by any means, nor am I slamming the residents of those towers. The truth is, those are elderly and disabled people who are living in an area that is far-removed from groceries, gas stations, and retail.
        I’m reasonably sure that the Housing Authority would prefer to divest itself of that property. I had it explained to me by those who should know that the goal is to own as little property as possible, and concentrate on furnishing rent subsidies to private entities, so Housing Authorities can get out of the property maintenance biz.
        If anything happens downtown, the towers will be goners, IMO.

  5. The acreage isn’t the problem as you can build up instead of out (wouldn’t that be a nice change). The problem is this is just a campus slopped down in the middle of an area it’s incompatible with (although I’m glad the Greyhound Bus Station can breathe a sigh of relief).

    I also think it’s kind of funny those who were too chicken to pick a site before the announcement are now running to the social media sites again telling us how good of an idea this is. I can see why the city was the only competitor who kept their plan under wraps.

    Hopefully IUMS “goes straight to Warrick Co.”

    • You Guys and Gals Start your opposition site,BBs can sink a battleship if you flip enough of them onboard in the right spot.
      You’d have to keep up the facial streaming towards’em though. Good grief,they will,as you know.You do good work Jordan,stick with it,just get out there more.


      A lady down in the Atlanta area just did that per the global changed climate presentation they were just served up.
      The governor and the mayor down there pulled an about face switcher'ew admitted,yeah,we sure messed up.

      56,0000 hits first 24hrs.per NBC national broadcast report.

      • Hey V, look at all the development Lincoln, Nebraska now has surrounding their recently opened Pinnacle Bank Arena…

        And now they have a power station and an Amtrak Station for fans to take to the game…

        Notice how every piece of development feeds off of the next with it all feeding off rail transportation and their arena as their anchor? It’s a thing of beauty.

        • I admit anyone who is sporting any viable plan to sequester carbons will have to check out the work Rail Industries are bringing forth with the networks.
          I actually while conceptualizing my balanced and sustainable clean water management concept,we found that a very key component to its success is 100% viable per the models due, improved rail infrastructures. This process needs logistics,and supply chain viabilities,moved forward.

          Especially out west,and through the mountains to the coast. Trucking can work for the component,as well,but,not as well incrementally.

          I read the other day about some hybrid tractor trailer designs that clearly have an advantage over current trucking trending pulling grades for fuel consumption and hydrocarbon discharges x load.
          However the fact that piggy back trailers and containers are huge aspects for shipping and timing blending,the infrastructures as set,the rails come out top choice.
          A program based on sustained clean water infrastructure and improved overall transportation infrastructure to manage carbons for actual positive sequestration and industrial profitability numbers per system,leans heavy on one key components of the balance,the railroads.dependability marks jump out to the rails with actual weather conditionals.

          Nothing that moves on land can approach to match it,nothing,to date anyway. Rail systems today look to me to be built for sustainable balance,blending ready,and usually collaborative as anything they can load,piggyback,or pull,just about everywhere. So yeah, the plan would need’em big time to make the system work as a true viable sustainable national application.
          Actually, the railroad intercoastal freight infrastructure can put down the miles during weather conditional gridlocks like no others can. Takes more than some cold snow and ice to stop a train,or the special ones they have to clear ahead of the freighter rails trains.
          You get “changed climate” induced interstate gridlock like I’ve seen lately,I really hate to use the term,but its a,no brainer.

          Have a young relative that works the in vendor contractual locomotive control systems that provides some the balance for that,anywhere,Nome Alaska,Texas border,east coast,west coast doesn’t matter. pretty much the definition of anytime,anywhere 24/7,everywhere.lousy weather included.
          He has been an asset to my design process,with everyday systems understanding. Myself would have likely spend plenty of research time on that for the logistical overall to the rail networks. So.

          Actually, looking at the freight rails networks,I conceptualize huge growth along those rail pathways.and the old ones. In some areas where the rails pass through but no longer stop,the plan has profitability to some stationing and depot point infrastructure that was once owned by the rail companies themselves.
          There is a brand new conceptual industry and business feature that would go with it. I would think somewhat like regional shipper hubs per rail approach,and career type good environmental science and biotechnical and mechanical to sustain the operations at each location hub with to point to point rail service and timing logistics.

          Opens the smaller rural markets back up for purpose with profit again,big time. Relieves reliances on regionally weather challenged clean water accesses. Relieves,localized drought pressures per application control points. Solves and evoloves a host page of climate change problems we face with our national clean water infrastructure.

          When global leadership,science and governments meet,Jordan,this topic is usually real close to the top of the issues stack. Globally whole planet…Global Climate Change # 1 issue—>clean water infrastructures<—

          Sorry your area ain't interested, I guess those old downtown bond bucks are as good as gold to some,not me though.So. I,wonder how the Evansville of your vision will ever come to be.
          Golly while looking at the realistic major impacts you have there,when I said the place fits the model,I wasn't reason is the location and proximity of the rails to where the plan would have put them if by design Wouldn't have to change a darn thing,just add some here and there,and once I looked at the historicals,shoot the rails where're there at one time,don't use the easements anymore. Just old rails,rocks,old ties. Sure wouldn't mind shining
          em up a bit per use though.

          {National emergency}

          The Governor of California declared a water emergency out there,those peoples water supplies are shot, dang near gone,60 days is what the estimate is. Millions of people affected,the environmental hydrologist geophysics guy I converse with said it could pour rain every other day out there for the next three months and the entire region still is faced off with water shortages. Hell,thats not clean water as treated either,its just water from the reservoirs as is. The wests agribusiness is taking a major hit probably gonna lose orchards that are legacy providers ,said water has become "liquid gold."
          I hear'em and we actually think we can do something about it,wow,just to say that,seems,well…need the rails though,along with industry as a whole.
          We already have,or do everything to blend this,add the planets processes,some thermodynamics,and environmental science balanced with this countries idling economic engine and some skilled labor,viola the nation's water problems are set to meet Balance Sustainability*.

          Good stuff Jordan,like the outlook,it reaches,usually that means ones going for an elevated objective,not bad. We all need more of that.

          "manere in equo percussa resurget frater"

          "stay on the horse,knocked off, rise again brother"

        • Rails The Pinnacle arena,if I blink,and think back to the first time I actually flew a light aircraft over Evansville ,the place is a picture location that practically would lay right square between the mouth confluence of Pigeon creek and where the Lloyd meets Riverside now.
          There was a an old Rail Station there,LN depot. I can remember on my turn and heading climb going out over Evansville to the northeast I lined the turn to point,wing tip orientation to the center of the McCurdy hotel. Trying to center along the riverfront at 2500 feet.
          My uncle used to buy wholesale goods nearby the rail station at a place he called BK,had a watermark down there somewhere that showed the level of the 1937 flood along Riverside.
          The LN depot,I remember it,there was a brewery across the street to on Fulton.
          And a building established by an Ex Governors family,Orr Iron.
          I learned to fly young,that cross country triangulation was part of my training,made Evansville a signed landing,”show off to cousins” the place where I stopped the FBO was called Crescent City Aviation still have that old log book,Guy named Bill,signed it and a fella named Joe O”Sullivan who knew my family also helped me out that day. Flew right out over the river me ,barely had a drivers license,and buzzing over the riverfront solo there in a small Beechcraft 180,one of the heaviest little airplanes for its size I ever flew,glide ratio like damn brick.

          One of the buildings left of that place is gonna be your WWII Aviation heritage museum,Im sure of that spot on the south end of 18-36,at EVV.

          Once back again flying in for a visit while in a service related aircraft, we overnighted on the ramp there,they called the the same place Metro beechcraft then. Had to park it there due government contract,they had the Jet A premixed Phillps 66 prist from the truck,cool stuff,helps control “HUM bugs”,and fuel icing. (“hum bugs”=microbial crud formed scum in jet fuel systems) bad stuff,eats fuel system components seals,real bad stuff.
          No gelled jet fuel at altitude,which was up there for that one,no place to flame out a power plant.
          Those days,the restrictions of air space were not as strict as today,that trip while in service could very well have been the first thunder over the Ohio,or one of the first anyway. Betcha people looked,dang that SOB was loud,as hell. 🙂

          • Yeah,the shock factor of the memories .is this,that complex {Rails} put up the info on,actually looks like something I had seen in a vision evolved from what,I did actually see back in the day climbing an turning to my heading.
            It was late afternoon about four hours to sunset the air was heat thermal bumpy out over the river,just the hot summer time thermodynamics of heat and moisture raising off the river. I was left wing down in an accelerating climbing turn,aligning to the McCurdys center point with the wing tip front leading edge. The spot I was over the river down there looked like a mirror,you could see the shoreline reflections and downtown as if they were painted on a canvas,as I climbed out to heading,the summers haze layer kinda just blended the details out.

            Kept climbing kept looking,the tower handed me off to center, I looked around,cleared for traffic and departed into the afternoon sun,actually was quite beautiful in its own right,I suppose.
            Never will forget it, the whole day,was a great day. The joys of youth I suppose.
            BTW I.m in a better mood today,back then the cold war had a wall that was referred to as the Iron curtain,looks like today the local,as of your location,the cronies curtain has let up a bit for my people,hope it stays that way. Approach that like they did back then. Outside communication,and good information,a tad of freedom took that Berlin wall down. Information,hope and free thinking and incremental steps,works everytime,Iron curtain,or cronies curtain. Its easy to be free,if your allowed to think freely,like dropping out of a cloud layer,the whole horizon 360,suddenly becomes a clear pathway,and “with clear horizons,there be destinations.”

            I don’t think ole Phil,saw his shadow,this morning,if he had IR or aperture synthetic imaging he would have,left one anytime,so. Its gonna be cold for a while.

            Tuesday looks like a horrendous mess,with the delivery temperature vs the mixed precipitation in the Ohio basin,uck!

            EKB,Go get your bread milk and eggs today, while everybody else is watching the stuper bowl …breeze—->

          • @ V/R, out of order d/t format shortcomings.

            I took care of all that this am. I even got extra ingredients for home-made dogfood (yes, I cook for them) and lots of extra snacks for the Super Bowl get-together with the neighbors and for my grandson. He’s already informed me that he will be staying with me tonight, so he’ll be here to defrost my car and shovel the walks if needed in the morning. He claims he’s looking out for me, but I think he just likes the food. 🙂

  6. I think the site should be USI. They have the space for expansion and are a growing and vibrant community.

  7. Is there anything that would prevent the City from selling or trading D-Patrick the vacant Robert’s Stadium land for their downtown dealership land? Personally, I thought the vacant Robert’s stadium land (if big enough) would have been an excellent location for the medical school campus.

    • When coupled with the adjacent ESH property, which is already state-owned, it would have worked well. It is within 10 minutes of nearly all of the clinical sites, five minutes from downtown and 15 to 20 from USI. It is near affordable housing and retail. It is near the real “heart” of the city. The problem is that it did not offer much in the way of financial opportunity for the city’s “movers and shakers.”
      I’m sure the Ford Truck dealership will just move in on the Division Street autoplex. I don’t think they’re interested in swapping land for land. They want the cash.

  8. If the powers that be spent half the time and energy trying to revitalize the rest of the city as they do the tiny downtown, Evanspatch might grow into Evansburg.

  9. Okay, folks! There is a question nagging at me that may be a very stupid one with an obvious answer, but I’m going to ask it anyway. I don’t want it to bother me when I need to be concentrating on the Super Bowl. Does anybody understand how this proposal is supposed to be taken seriously by the selection committee as representing the City of Evansville and a committment to building the school downtown, even though the City Council has apparently not signed off on it?
    It appears to me that the Mayor has usurped the power of the City Council here. He, himself, made reference to bringing them “up to speed” on the proposal this coming week. Help me out here!! Is the way this proposal was submitted as desperately insane as it seems to me? Can the Mayor just act unilaterally in matters that involve public spending or should he have had the consent of the City Council? The only alternative I can think of is that all of the property owners have decided to donate the land without any benefit other than “a warm feeling”, and I really can’t imagine that, even with my rather vivid imagination. I’d think that the public would still be on the hook for clearing the land, etc.

      • POTUS does so less than any President in recent history.
        You do know the slaves were freed by Executive Order, don’t you?

        • Partially, the Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves in the borders states. The 13th and 14th amendments finished the job.

        • Talking point alert. POTUS’ use of executive orders may not be in the same quantity range, but it definitely makes up for it in how obtrusive it is into the powers of other branches of governments. And his use defiled and subverted the rights of the people as well as the Constitution too. But the left doesn’t want to discuss that, change the subject quickly

          • Ahhhh Yes Whine complain, moan, b!tch about the ACA business mandate for a whole year.

            Send the Chamber, the CEO’s, Club for growth etc to the WH and beg and cajole and plead for an extension.

            THEN when Obama gives you exactly what you guys asked for you call him a lawless dictator selectively enforcing laws.

            Treacherous little poisonous vipers your guys are.

          • So…you’re point is….Obama, it turns out, doesn’t use Executive Orders much after all.

            Then I read some other stuff you said. That stuff says you wish whoever you voted for (if you voted) would have won, I think. But your guy lost, so Obama’s President.

            • “I don’t always issue executive orders, but when I do I make them hurt my enemies as much as possible” BHO

          • I don’t know what the most interesting man in the world is saying with this quote…it’s a quote right?

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