IS IT TRUE October 23, 2013

Mole #3 Nostradamus of Local Politics
Mole #3 Nostradamus of Local Politics

IS IT TRUE October 23, 2013

IS IT TRUE Warrick County put its best foot forward with a presentation to pitch their preferred location for the IU Medical School project yesterday and it was surprisingly comprehensive and well done?…the layout of the campus as Warrick County would like it to be is near hospitals, clinics, retail, housing, and lodging?…this site seems to meet most of the speculative criteria that has been bantered about for a while now?…it is even a virgin lot with plenty of room (and plans) to expand for business parks that leverage the location of being near the IU Medical School?…most of what is needed is within a mile or so of the proposed campus and could become an easy walk or bike ride for students with some added safety features?…one question that has not been raised thus far is whether or not the IU trustees will be considering future utility and services expenses in their decision process?…with what may turn out to be 100,000 square feet of space under management the difference in what the sewer bills are projected to be in the future could become a major issue?…a tuition surcharge for the costs associated with the over HALF BILLION EPA mandate facing the City of Evansville will probably come up in these discussions?

IS IT TRUE from a local governance perspective only two other sites seem to be in the mix?…those sites are of course downtown Evansville that Mayor Winnecke has vowed to “fight like the dickens” to promote and a site near USI where the school currently resides?…neither downtown Evansville nor USI have the level of direct access to medical facilities, retail, or housing that the Warrick County site has so in an even horse race both of those locations would have longer odds of achieving success?…there are other sites in Vanderburgh County and even in the City of Evansville that have the potential to give the Warrick County site a run for its money?…as it is widely expected that Mayor Winnecke will not make a pitch for the Roberts Stadium or State Hospital sites it serves to reason that any 3rd, 4th, or 5th site may be a private pitch?…if any private group comes forward to pitch a site to the IU Medical Center that is in the City of Evansville they should have the same backing and enthusiasm from the Mayor and his court as the downtown site will certainly have?

IS IT TRUE the Vanderburgh County Commissioners expressed a need to keep 2% of the Innkeeper’s Taxes going to the operational support of the Centre well into the future?…without a vote to keep this subsidy in place the Centre will see its subsidy cut in half starting January 1, 2015?…the urgency to keep these tax dollars directed toward the Centre seems odd given the fact that the Evansville Convention and Visitors Bureau is out pitching new and better conventions to come to town because we will have a convention hotel to support the Centre?…the hotel is unlikely to be completed by January 1, 2015 so maybe extending the subsidy to the Centre should just go through say a year after the hotel is opened whenever that may be?

IS IT TRUE President Obama has signed on a tech management guru to be his “FIX OBAMACARE SHOPPING EXPERIENCE CZAR”?…one wonders why such a person was not hired 3 years and $600 Million ago?…the ObamaCare website, call centers, etc. was designed by people who didn’t have a clue what they were doing and it shows?…if Apple can sell 7 Million iPhone 5 models on its first weekend mostly through online shopping one wonders why the President didn’t just hire Apple, Amazon, esurance, or some other web based retail business to take care of this part of his signature legislation?…this failure is a monument to all talk and no substance governance?…one thing it has done is expose some inconsistencies in ObamaCare itself?…there are several young couples with children right here in Evansville who can’t afford to participate in health insurance plans offered by their employers who have learned that because of that situation they are not eligible for ObamaCare but will be eligible to be fined for not being able to afford either their employers plan or ObamaCare?…some of these people are educated young professionals?


  1. My premiums are not increasing. I’m genuinely interested to know whose is and by how much. Let’s use this thread as an informal poll on the effects of ACA so far, and not boogeyman scare tactics, just how it’s affected you personally.

        • Yes, I read just fine, even between the lines. One has to be able to read between the lines when talking with liberals.

          If you have private insurance, then how are your premiums not increasing when so many are?

          • It’s offered through my employer and our premiums are not increasing. You bought the scare tactics.

          • JD is trolling. Even medigap or medicare supplements are increasing. Some liberals have quoted ACA premiums so low it would benefits seniors to drop medicare part B, their supplement and go straight to ACA.

          • Central States Indemnity (a Berkshire Hathaway company) and major player in medicare supps has announced they are not increasing premiums on any of their plans through 2014.

          • @moretax, they’ve already raised their premiums for 13/14. They’re in the business and knew this was coming so they started the price increase in dribs and drabs to ease the shock. Plus Central State is already at the high end.

          • No John, I’m not buying what you’re saying. Either your employer has not been hit with the increase yet or he has adsorbed the increase. Never the less, let’s go with your straw poll. You say your premiums did not go up, and another Obama voter said his did. So that’s an increase for 50% of the people in your poll.

    • I am a young degreed professional with a family living in Evansville. My employer offers family coverage which makes me ineligible for ACA. The cost to me is $180 per week that I can’t afford as my take home pay is less than $500 per week. I have logged onto the ACA site dozens of times and can’t even register but I did learn I am ineligible. I voted for Obama 2 times for healthcare and now I find out I am not eligible and that I get penalized because I can’t afford my employers plan. What a disappointment. Wish I could get my votes back. To have to pay a $300 fine because I can’t afford insurance is an insult to my work ethic and my skills.

      • You must have several kids and would probably qualify for Medicaid. Would you be fined then?

      • Also, is the $180 for the lowest tier plan and if your employer offers terrible coverage I think you’re still eligible for ACA. There’s some required criteria for your employer’s plan I believe.

        • Employers plan qualifies and the $180 is to participate in that plan. It is good coverage but I can’t afford to pay for that and eat. The price of ACA is irrelevant to me because I am ineligible. The fine as I read it is $95 or a percent of my income which would amount to $300. Now I pay nothing for nothing. Come January I will be forced to pay $300 for nothing. Is this progress? Lucky for me we are healthy. Obama laid an egg as far as my family is concerned.

          • Just quit your job and go on the dole dude. You will get healthcare and a check then. It sounds like you are making about $30k from these numbers which is about as good as it gets for a young person in Evansville. You will have a better compensation package if you sit home on your ass than you will working. We taxpayers can thank Obama for this. Welcome to Greece. If enough of the people in your situation just quit and go on the dole this banana republic Obama government will fall in a couple of years. Then we can start over.

      • Tired-O-Fit,

        You have misinterpreted the ACA. The ACA requires your employer (if they have > 50 employees) to offer you SINGLE-ONLY coverage for no more than 9.5 % of your gross pay. But you need family coverage. Just because your employer offers you family coverage doesn’t mean you have to take it. You can absolutely go to the Public Exchange, and if you get a better deal than your employer offers you can sign up on the Exchange (if they ever get it to work). Or you could move down to KY, their State Exchange is working great. Once the Federal website is working, go check it out. Good luck getting your family insured, you will qualify for a big subsidy.

        • What about if you don’t work for a company that has greater than 50 employees? What if you make so much you don’t qualify for subsidy? What if the healthcare you have working for a company with less than 50 employees no longer qualifies and is dropped and that was cheaper than ACA coverage? What if you are employee number 50 that gets cut so that employer does not have to provide insurance? I guess those 300,000 people in FL who lost their coverage were just collateral damage.

          • Tiredofit

            If you go to the Kaiser Family Foundation Calculator, you might be able to calculate your cost. If you are a family of 4, with two kids, you can get bronze coverage for free and silver for $600 per year. If your are a family of 3 you get no subsidy. I calculated assuming $30M of annual income.

            This is the problem with the ACA. It is not really affordable if you are single, in good health and employeed or you are a small family because you are trying to live within your means.

            Don’t let your situation get you down; you are doing the right things it sounds like and you will be successful. I know what its like to be underemployed and unemployed with a degree in this community. The good news is that if you can’t make it here, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE IT ANYWHERE. You have no farther to look than Joe and his struggles with our local business incubator. I’m sure he really misses the place while tanning in Palm Springs.

  2. If a private group came forward to pitch a Vanderburgh County location, which I suspect may happen, I expect the Mayor to take the selfsame tact he has always taken when private solutions have been pitted against government solutions.

    His radio pledge to “fight lie the dickens” against even other private Evansville developers was probably the most ill-conceived and childish statement I’ve heard from an Evansville politician. The arrogance of suggesting he is a Mayor not for a whole city, but for the few square blocks between the Civic Center and the Riverfront is just egregious.

    • IU is looking for and will get a give away. Why do you think a private groups would be interested in giving away assets and land?

      • I don’t know. Possibly. The people who own Promenade seem very keen. The area they own out on the Vandy border is about 280 acres, I think. Giving away 40 or so for the prospect of having a centerpiece for their new development seems like great business move to me. If this is their plan, I would consider that a great option, maybe even better than the Roberts/ESH site, because it would provide a model of how private businesses can make things happen without government intervention.

  3. Looks like the Mayor may have messed up the IU Medical Center deal by listening to the opinions of his wife and other close political buddies. To bad he can’t seek the advice of real business leaders of this community about this most important economic issue. If Evansville don’t get the IU Med School then it shall signal the political end of his political career.

    • An end to a mayor’s political career requires a winning candidate either in the same primary or in the following general election. In the absence of a viable opponent, no immediate end to the mayor’s political career except by his own choice. Name the candidate, RP.

      • Exactly, as long as the democrats stay in disarray and nominate stooges Winnecke will stay on as Mayor of Evansville just like Weinzapfel wants him to.

  4. While downtown Evansville may remain a viable location for the I.U. Med Center, let’s agree for a moment that a location in immediate proximity to Deaconess Gateway is preferable for whatever reasons.

    Now, let’s look at available locations other than the Warrick County site, and compare some issues.

    The Martin development group has nearly a square mile of open development land between Burkhardt Road and I-164, between Oak Grove Road and the Columbia Street extension. And the Martin land is bisected by Crosspoint Boulevard which essentially provides direct access to I-164 at both the north end and the south end of the Martin development area.

    Furthermore, the Martin development land already is zoned appropriately, and more importantly, it’s served by a storm drain system far superior to the storm drain system that serves the Warrick County location.

    The Burkhardt Road storm system is oversized by 15% for the 100-year storm, and the ditch system into which the Burkhardt Road and Crosspoint Blvd. storm sytems dump are large, open drains capable of carrying the 100-year event flow without significantly overtopping its banks. The same cannot be said for Warrick County’s Howard Ditch that serves the proposed medical center location.

    Also, the storm drain system that serves the Martin land drains directly into Pigeon Creek many miles below the point of discharge from Warrick County’s drain system, and Pigeon Creek below Warrick County and down to Green River Road is a serpentine collection of oxbow bends routinely blocked by logjams the result of felled logs and other debris that washes down from Warrick County.

    Therefore, the storm water that runs off the Martin development land in Evansville arrives at the Ohio River several hours before any storm water run-off from Warrick County, much of which has to spill out of Pigeon Creek, backing up across Warrick County farmland, and often flooding property all the way back to Chandler.

    Additionally, there are far more available and more economical apartment units located much closer to the Martin development location (look all along Virginia Street between Sam’s Club and I-164) than those few in Warrick County that are located nearby their proposed location.

    The Martin development property, while almost as close to Deaconess Gateway as is the Warrick location, is much closer to the new Veteran’s Administration clinic and other medical facilities along Burkhardt Road.

    Lastly, Evansville residents are served by a rapid transit system (METS) to serve students and staff to and from residences, the medical center, and Gateway by extension.

    Bottom line, whether downtown Evansville or the Eastside location along Crosspoint Blvd., Evansville is the far more prepared and sensible location for the I.U. Med Center than is Warrick County.

    • From a taxpayer perspective, to have the med school be paid for by Evansville taxpayers over a placement that is less than a mile away geographically is senseless. Far better if taxpayers are involved in the Martin or Promenade locations to just let the Mayor blow it for us and see it slip less than 100 yards inside the Warrick County line where east side Evansville businesses can still reap huge benefits, yet will not have to pay for it in any way.

      This med school isn’t going to pay taxes, so why should we quibble over a few hundred yards?

      • Simply because an anchor like the I.U. Med Center, located on Martin’s development land would guarantee satellite, private medical development, more R-3, R-4, and commercial development in the open spaces between Burkhardt and I-164, and between Virginia St. and Oak Grove Road inside Evansville.

        Satellite development in these specific tracts of land all would generate enormous TIF funds to further develop the Burkhardt Road TIF District of Evansville.

        Also, a concentration of new development in this specific part of the Burhardt Road TIF District gives Evansville an opportunity to use TIF funds to require and help build out low impact development, sidewalks, bike paths, etc., connecting the Med Center to satellite development features and nearby shopping, housing, entertainment, and green open space.

        I support and promote development inside Vanderburgh County and Evansville. As an announced possible candidate for local office, you should too, Brad.

        • I do see your point and I do support private development out there, absolutely, but I also reckon there will be spillover development into Evansville from this development regardless.

          The owners of Promenade will be in a prime position to pitch their property for development if this school is built even at the Warrick site.

          I guess the real question is how much would Martin be charging the City of Evansville to buy 40 acres of land for IU? OR will Martin be giving this land away in the hopes of recouping on property developments surrounding the school site?

          • While your desire for spill-over development from Warrick development at Epworth and the Lloyd is welcomed news, I think you should consider just how much spill-over has occurred specifically in the Martin development area of the Burhardt Road TIF District as a result of the Deaconess Gateway complex. Exactly ZERO!

            However, I think a med center smack in the middle of the Martin Promenade would spur more immediate and expansive development of the TIF District.

            As to the cost of land for the med center, I would think the City can ill afford to ignore a hefty contribution toward locating such a prize regardless of where in Evansville the med center chooses to land. And the Martins would be business stupid to overprice land currently laying vacant.

          • If the Martins would agree to giving away 40 acres of the approx 280 they own there to attract this crown jewel into the development, I think it would be a good business AND political move.

            To send out a press release announcing their offer to match the Warrick land giveaway would put this Mayor on the ropes and ensure he would have to take it seriously. This giveaway could then be contrasted with what I expect will be a land purchase downtown followed by a large scale demolition project before any groundbreaking could occur.

            Think it over. IU will not happen at Promenade without a land giveaway/PPP arrangement.

            • We must point out that to put the Ford Center downtown cost the City over $10M in land acqusition us demolition and infrastructure. The IU project is much larger. Where would one find 40 contiguous acres downtown?

          • Editor, I agree. 40 acres downtown is impossible, even non-contiguously. The ESH site could get close to that 40 acre figure. Just an eyeballing of the map looks like it’s close.

            The ESH site could come free of cost to taxpayers, and the Roberts site, if included, would also not cost taxpayers.

            This is one major reason that unless Martin is giving away the land for the Promenade/Martin proposal, I would still consider ESH/Roberts superior. That could change if Martin was giving away the land in a joint proposal with the City.

          • Editor and Brad

            I agree 100% about the acreage you are mentioning for the IU Medical Center campus. I think you need to expand on that, because the acreage for the campus alone would ignore the requisite building of surrounding infrastructure and development. Yes, I would love to see Downtown improved, but in my mind I just cannot see how they can try and “shoe-horn” the new campus into Downtown. The new campus is not being built in a vacuum! It will need all sorts of surrounding amenities, things like retail, pharmacies, parking, hotels (both long and short term), apartments and housing (student and faculty), and more. That is just the bare minimum of supporting business to support the new campus.

            If you look at most medical school campuses, you have a lot of medical-themed items attached or nearby. Physician practices, specialty clinics, urgent care clinics, ambulance stations, and so on. You also have to factor in the infusion of medical research facilities! I cannot think of a single medical school that is top-notch that does not have numerous medical research facilities that are located nearby. Having the land for the IU Medical School campus is just one piece of the puzzle, and if we only look at the land needed Downtown for just the new IU campus, we are dooming them to be landlocked immediately from getting supporting services nearby.

            Just my .02 cents worth on that aspect. Like I said, Downtown could be transformed with the project. I am torn between the thoughts of how Downtown could truly be moved into the future with the IU campus project, and the reality of how thing in Evansville and Vanderburgh County just fall flat on their face when it comes to planning. We had a sad and unfortunate history of being “short sighted” when it comes to major projects. Based on that I (and I am just saying this personally) need to see some well-planned engineering and architectural outlines and some business plans, both short term and long term, for both the IU campus and what will eventually surround and support it before I agree that we “put our eggs in one basket” and only push Downtown.

            Curious on whether you agree with me on this.

          • For my part, I agree about the lack of amenities downtown and the lack of space to develop. Many politicians would disagree and say having IU down there would stimulate this development on Main and fill some of the vacant buildings. I just don’t see it. The existing buildings aren’t energy efficient enough without serious updating, and as of right now, there isn’t a single grocery store in downtown proper to serve any of the people who bought expensive lofts, let alone any of these students or faculty. There is an underlying reason most businesses have fled downtown, even the ones who wanted to stay.

            I will concede that my favored site, ESH/Roberts, would require some rezoning along Boeke to offer the promise of new surrounding business developments which would make the overall prospects attractive enough to gain momentum. This is one advantage Promenade has over any other Vandy site discussed so far – there is room to develop and expand the tax base.

            We have two major problems though…

            PROBLEM #1: We have a Mayor who has backed himself into a corner of “fighting like the dickens” for downtown. He has already made statements which will be difficult and politically painful to back away from without a very good reason, i.e. a land gift from Martin.

            PROBLEM #2: Warrick is already light years ahead. They already have a site that’s geographically closer to Deaconess Gateway with concrete plans for medical-related and housing related developments surrounding it.

            The story is the same today as it’s been the last two or three weeks – unless the Mayor returns to the drawing board with some developers who aren’t downtown, we will lose the med school to Warrick.

          • Brad

            I agree with you that the “brain freeze” in Evansville and Vanderburgh County on focusing ONLY on Downtown is putting the ability of us to get the IU Medical Campus in serious danger.

            We unfortunately have a lack of “vision” when it comes to designing things that requires thinking that is “outside the box”, and that is what we need for the design of the IU project.

            We cannot rely on the “good old boys” network of designers, engineers, and architects that have designed building after building after building with the same cookie-cutter template of going by “minimum standards” for proposals.

            The IU project is going to require some seriously innovative and modern design in order to land the project. The IU project needs to be planned so that it encompasses EVERYTHING in and around the new campus.

            The IU project will need to have a WOW factor built in, and at the same time be functional and planned for the long-term. This campus will need to be designed with the preparation for the simple fact that this campus will be here (based on the estimations given) forever! Once the medical school is established it will probably not ever go away. I cannot imagine a situation where an IU Medical Campus would ever close. So we are not talking about the usual retail type of situation where stores open and close based on whims of corporate executives, you are talking about a medical school that will grow and grow and grow.

            When was the last time we saw anything in Evansville that was designed with a long-term future of 100 years or more? One of the few folks currently talking about this type of focus is SEAC (Sustainable Evansville Area Coalition), which has some good stuff on their website ( What they are doing mimics what is being done in a lot of progressive cities, where they are trying to plan for things that are generational in nature. They are looking at:

            * Socio-Economic Characteristics
            * Environment
            * Transportation
            * Housing
            * Economic Development
            * Arts & Culture

            You can make book that the site that gets the new IU campus will have long-range generational plans to provide answers and growth for all those things. If you need proof of that just take a look at the PDF of the Warrick proposal. That is a preview of what they are putting on the table, and I will bet good money that they have other “aces up their sleeve” to go with that engineering drawing. Winning the IU campus is going to take some serious design work, and I just have to wonder if we have the capability in the current people working on this project to pull it off.

            Nothing personal against the current Administration, but this needs someone who is devoted full-time to landing this campus! This is not something that you throw consulting money at and expect to get the campus project. I know this means money to hire an expert to work on this project, but look at what this project will bring to Evansville if we get the IU Campus. I personally think the monetary influx alone is not able to be calculated entirely since you are talking about something that will be here forever.

            Just my continued thoughts

          • Editor, “Where would one find 40 contiguous acres downtown?”

            The Civic Center complex?

            • There isn’t 40 acres in the whole downtown. There are several mules at the Civic Center though.

      • Yes, we are talking about the same land development. I just hesitate to use specific marketing names as they tend to change frequently. Promenade today, something else tomorrow, if you’ve been following the recent trends in naming commercial developments.

  5. obama had 3yrs to get this right just like he has had 5yrs on jobs and economy it all is an absolute failure just like media creation barry obama….oh by the way 90 million Americans not in the work force…….47 milliond Americans living in poverty……over 17 million in debt…….yep oh laser beam barry absolute failure……

  6. I know a lot of people have disagreed with the potential of the new IU Medical Center being located near USI, but I feel that it would actually be not only a great addition to the USI campus, but would also spur numerous improvements to the Westside.

    There are no advanced medical facilities on the Westside. Patients coming from Posey County and Illinois have a convoluted path and a long drive to get to an emergency room or forms of in-patient care (cardiology, general surgery, neurology, radiology, etc). I think a plan that was laid out properly with a “big picture” view (like the one Warrick did) would show the benefits of the the IU Medical School being developed along University Parkway. It would be close to USI, where the IU Medical program has been for decades. There is more than ample space to build for the immediate future and for a lifetime of healthcare growth.

    A medical community would likely develop rather quickly surrounding the new IU Medical Campus, bringing high-end and diverse upscale development to University Parkway, while at the same time being a minor impact to the neighbors as far as noise and traffic. Medical facilities are usually a “day time only” type of business unless you factor in a new hospital that would have an Emergency Department. Along those thoughts, a new full-service hospital on the Westside would draw multiple millions of dollars in healthcare money from Southern Illinois, who currently drive all the way to Warrick County for healthcare. If you factor in the aging population of Vanderburgh County and to the West of Vanderburgh County, it would be easy to make an argument for a Westside hospital.

    It could also have an exponential impact on the tax base from the growth of medical facilities and other businesses that would be built to support the scholastic and medical complex. It would support the expansions of businesses in Posey County (such as the new fertilizer plant that will start construction soon, and the ever expanding Port of Mt. Vernon), and more importantly would provide a wide range of medical services for when University Parkway is continued all the way to Interstate 64!

    Furthermore, the area along University Parkway has a TIF district, which means that if the IU Medical Center locates there and the growth that will certainly go with it is privately developed, the tax money to enhance the existing infrastructure would be thru the new development in that area and collected thru the TIF structure instead of coming from the County general fund. It would encourage a lot of infrastructure improvement at the State and Federal level based on the future plans for the extension of University Parkway to Interstate 64.

    All the facts point to it being a smart decision to having the IU Medical School near the USI campus, and the entire region would see a benefit from locating on the Westside and along University Parkway.

    • One problem with the USI location is that the west side typically fights against development, especially along University Parkway. Not that there’s anything wrong with fighting against development, but if they can’t agree to let a new neighborhood go up, how is any development going to occur surrounding an IU med School site?

      • A valid point, not to mention there is nary a teaching bed within a 7-mile radius of USI. Furthermore, if the USI campus is what IU wanted, I doubt they would have issued an RFP.

        • Brad:

          I would not be so sure that an RFP would not have been sent out just because they decided to stay on the USI campus. I would think that something of this magnitude would probably require a competitive bidding process under State law. I cannot prove that 100% at the moment, but I am fairly confident that the Indiana bidding process would be the rule. Take a look at IC 4-13.6-5, where it states that “if the estimated cost of a public works project is at least one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000), the division shall award a contract for the project based on competitive bids”. Not sure if that is the correct citation, but I know that just a quick glance at Google and competitive bidding in Indiana comes up with all sorts of citations.

      • I would tend to politely disagree with the contention that ” the west side typically fights against development, especially along University Parkway”. What I recall and have seen is that there have been numerous attempts at reckless and unplanned development in numerous “hot spots” on the Westside, and based on that a lot of the people are pretty vigilant about asking in advance for a “plan” from developers.

        Just take a look at the disaster on Schutte Road where the developer misrepresented (OK, just flat-out lied) about the apartments being built were not intended for “student housing”. We all know what happened with development, where the developer built 450+ student apartments and only provided 200 parking spots. The noise, traffic, and underage drinking the neighbors have been subjected to are a tragedy. But at the time the neighbors that that the “word” of a developer could be trusted. One lesson learned.

        Or how about the insanity of the design of Red Bank Road and Pearl Drive, and how when you turn from the Lloyd going South on Red Bank the traffic lanes suddenly go every way at once? Or how the developer who rezoned the Wal-Mart property promised and showed neighbors grand plans for tree lines and bushes and all sorts of landscaping for the neighbors to the Wal-Mart, yet that same developer (who has a long history of “promises” in advance of his rezoning requests) simply “flipped” the property and sold the entire thing to Wal-Mart, who told the neighbors “sorry about your luck”, because the “promises” of the developer were not in writing, so they refused to do them. Another lesson for Westsiders.

        I can go on and on about “promises” by certain developers, real estate honcho’s, and maybe an attorney or two, but the bottom line is that a lot of Westsiders have developed a long memory and just a wee bit of distrust over “promises” that are given yet the same bunch of developers, real estate honcho’s, and legal councilors adamantly REFUSE to put their “promises” in writing.

        I know that when you have a group of people working on things that affect their neighborhood that it is impossible to get 100% agreement. But when neighbors make requests in good faith about a project and all the developer and all related associates do is just thinly smile and say “just trust us” and refuse to put their agreements in writing, then I think that Westsiders should fight against a project.

        If you are wanting to develop a project, large or small, and you refuse to put anything in writing that would go towards the enhancement of the community or neighborhood, then I would never trust the person trying to shine one on. I have to agree with what the Westsiders have done in growing a little bit of a cynical attitude, and they are not alone in Vanderburgh County. Citizens and neighbors have been mislead and (IMHO) outright lied to about projects and developments, and a smart person is the one that tells them that a “promise” made about a development should be in writing, or do not waste our time and oxygen telling us something that we know will be forgotten or ignored by the developer or real estate agent when it suits them.

        Been there, seen that, and refuse to go along with it. I’m not sure of the source, but a common phrase is “Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes”, and I think that Westsiders have developed a good memory for broken promises on land development, and therefore they expect a discussion to be had. Seems only fair.

        • Classyevillepolitics: Thank you for your refreshing post concerning those med center sites. I like that you mentioned the SEAC organization,and the things that are going on to sustain your areas vitality moved forward. Very nice list there! agreed with every point.

          Some on this board really miss the target in concern to the real sustainability objectives,most of our country does as well. 🙁
          That said, in my focus now in true climatology and the research involved with that. Gees. I have to say,communication of the urgent need for sustainable environmental carbon sequestration planning is behind the curve in the United States right now. (moved forward,Goal)
          This will rear its ugly head dramatically in the next two decades. Having a sound forward infrastructure in place for ongoing adaptation is a requirement that will have to start taking place now. (The science is “all in”)

          Building for climate change and carbon sequestration “is” the new global market, focus for countries whom exist on global market trade forward. (60 trillion euros market at last estimate)
          This planning overseas is leaping out front forward with astronomical funding to support and create new standards in incremental sustainability. (Catch up planning needed U.S.A.)
          Right there in the Ohio valley basin your incremental carbon footprint is somewhat huge when studied as an incremental addition of percentage, added per location/population. (very low scores)
          Reading the report this morning on the efforts from the Indiana state office of the Governor was also interesting,especially the sectioned study groups for planning a agenda.(getting started):)

          I have been shoving and tugging trying to get your area too see the methods in which these objectives actually immerse and blend forward with every other project of focus.(No luck there.)

          The thing is,as multiple avenue pathway this is cause driven for the overall conceptualization of a process and plan to identify,build,control and sustain goals and objectives in advanced applications in developing real sequestration science. Just about any area planet wide can do this as whole unit moved forward. Any place.(why not your metro area?)

          The science,technical support and those applied life quality careers,along with logistical transportation and construction growth is immense through the acceptance and execution of such a simply applied concept. (Sustainable market growth) 🙂

          The thing is when trying to communicate and introduce the simplicity of the science most politicians cannot fathom,or understand a concept that delivers, provides funding and life quality forward for “anyone” who might accept the directions offered. No hidden agenda so to speak. I am beginning to think maybe those agendas that seem to take so many projects a stray, might need to be eliminated or bypassed as the first solution needed to move forward… ?

          In my work I use some orbital science as a very useful tool,sometimes going back to old hard work and a farmers common sense. Orbital science does offer an advantage if accessed real time,and that old adage of “the shadow brings the light” works too,and when wondering what kind of fish are in your farm pond some times one must watch the feeding times,and the prey, or substance fed upon. (observations)
          Once that is observed toss out a hook with that substance and. voila! The suspected fish is on the line. (“Knowing just what.. is in that pond.”)

          Applicable to politicians,bankers,real estate types,all the before mentioned in your comment, some other critters as well. 🙂

  7. This land along Burkhardt was supposed to sell for $1 million an acre. Hard to believe they would give away 40 acres. If the land is as good as stated with respect to drainage (that’s a big if, given drainage issues that arise when development actually occurs), then this land would be the prime development that would support the medical school in Warrick County. This is where restaurants, stores, a new mall and apartments would be built as per the master plan that basically states that Burkhardt is the future Green River Rd.

    Finally, the location in Warrick where the med school is proposed is not subject to flooding. You wouldn’t have two hospitals locate there if it was.

    • If that’s the case, then even a 50% discount by the Martin developers would still cost $20m. Obviously, I have no idea what they have invested in the land or what they have to have out of it to break even, but I do know that empty fields will be a tougher sell than land around a medical school. I also know that land around a medical school will be worth more money.

      Seems to me on the surface it would be good business, not to mention clever politics, to offer the land as a gift. This might begin swaying Council Members and put pressure on the Administration. Anything less would probably not be effective in gaining enough support.

      The Martin people should think this over carefully and chew on the numbers, then they should consider the politics of the situation. In recent memory, nothing has managed to stop the downtown juggernaut where city government is concerned. If they really want this project on their land, they are going to have to fight for it with a gift. That has nothing to do with what I think, it’s just the reality of the political situation the Mayor, Council Members, and media have created.

      • Why give the cow away when you can milk it for free? Your about a quarter mile from the school and you have to give nothing up. You build the school here and you change the whole dynamic of what this area is supposed to be. You will create an office park and the retail will go to Warrick just east of the Wellness Trail.

    • The same land along Burkhardt was selling for $200K to $300K per frontage acre at the height of the land development bubble before the 2008 crash. I doubt it has gone to $1 million an acre now. And the med center wouldn’t require all road frontage acreage, so the cost per acre would be less than premium.

        • I will correct myself; the VA land sold for around $321M per acre per the sales disclosure for the 5.64 acres on which the building and parking lot are located. The VA land in total is about 11 acres. This was not the prime property in this development either and was sold at a low point in the market as a whole (sale was in 1-2009).

    • But, but, but we have an arena and the promise of a new hotel from people we can trust.

  8. I now really love the CCO web site since the intelligent bloggers from the Courier and Press have joined us. Together we shall make a political difference in reshaping this community. Out with the old and in with the new!

    • I was wondering if anyone else noticed how many posts are appearing on the CCO versus the now ghost town C&P. I couldn’t be happier to see this happen. Joe & Ron put a lot of time into this site. They’ve always treated me with the greatest amount of respect, and they are mature enough to know that turning over one’s actions and thoughts to the machine is anything but the right thing to do. So yea, watching the post counts go up on the cco while going down on the cp puts a huge smile on my face.

      • I too noticed this. The only good thing in the past about reading the Courier was reading the posts that regular people made on that forum. It’s practically deserted now with very few posters.

        I really do hope that that paper dries up and blows away. They are so biased that is made me sick.

        This site is growing by leaps and bounds and it’s interesting to see discussions in here.

  9. Wieneke has his political cronies lined up to donate all of the necessary property downtown. That is the only way it’ll go there, and neither one will happen. The promenade property may be a posibility, roberts never, state hospital remotely possible. No way wieneke, bushon, abble,weaver mosby, or the dust pan full of political has-been fodder will be elected to any office.

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