AN INTERESTING “IS IT TRUE” FOR MAY 15, 2015

1. D Patrick seems like a big winner here on the wheel of cronyism. Also, we are potentially looking at this building being built by $5/hr south of the border labor. Scary. We’re headed right back into the dark ages thanks to you know who. How do the union bosses who are supporting union busting politicians still have a job? It seems like the whole world has gone crazy.

   • No matter who builds it, it is still subject to abide to the building codes and inspections.

     • Oh, yes . . . most have forgot that the bosses control the Building Commissioner’s office . . .IS IT TRUE that Ben Miller, a man of faith, last fall said, ” Carol (Christmas Carol that is) I’ve have had enough of using the commissioner’s office as a shake-down . . . .”

       As it relates to ol’ Christmas . . Mr. Ossenberg was oh so correct . . .

   • The funding stream is from IU, USI, and the City of Evansville, all of which are recipients of federal dollars. I think by virtue of that fact that Davis-Bacon laws will apply to the project and prevailing wages will be required. UE being a private institution would probably not be subject to Davis-Bacon.

     • I love bacon!

     • No. It would take direct federal dollars to trigger Davis Bacon. The fact that the feds sometimes give money to schools isn’t enough. There are no federal dollars in this project. The state common construction wage would have applied. That law is no more July 1st and local entities are prohibited from creating a local ordinance to have the same effect. The work will have to be bid and the government typically has to take the lowest bidder. It will be interesting to see the impact on the hotel and medical school projects. The Project Labor Agreement for the hotel requires the developer to make a good faith effort to engage local labor on the project. They have engaged Hunt Construction out of Indianapolis as the general contractor. The bids won’t be due on the project until after July 1st. The medical school general contractor is Skanska. They have no obligation to use local labor on what they bid out. There isn’t enough local labor to build both projects at once any way. There will be plenty of people here from out of town starting this fall.

       • Based on reports local labor for the most part have the rank and file out on jobs . . . in Jan of 2012 is where they needed the work . . . and labor has conveniently forgot that the Council voted the MOU in November of 2011 to go forward with Kunkle and the plans were in motion . . .

         Then why after nearly four years we have had nothing more than photo opts with Santa Lloyd . . .go back to the root of delay . . .IN-BED-ED . . .O’ Ed was not involved in the MOU and of course was not able to set up the pins . . .but then the president of the ERC . . . well we should know how this story will end . . . incredible that the Union Bosses have convinced the rank and file that St. Lloyd has become their job messiah.

     • What if UE used money that they received from the Federal Government. Might there not be strings attached to any Federal Money used by UE. That is a big if they are receiving any money from the Federal Government. Maybe it’s all private money that they are using. I’m not so concerned about having them pay the Federal Wages as long as who ever get the job does it right. I don’t think anyone wants some fly by night company getting the low bid and lousing up the job. I’d hate to see things have to be fixed years down the road because it was not done right the first time.

       And to the guy above who said that they will have inspectors looking at the job as it progresses. Most of those inspectors work for the city and from my short experience working as an inspector for the city for several years I know for a fact that not all the “inspectors” know what the hell they are doing and some work openly in opposition to the job they are suppose to be doing. So don’t count on all the city inspectors to do a proper job. After all most of them that I knew were political hacks that were not qualified for the inpector job. Not one of them was a engineer with a degree in mechanical, electrical, civil or chemical engineering. And none of them could drive a rail road locomotive either.

     • Perhaps . . .depends on which funds the state will be tapping . . .

2. First, Skanska will be the general–they are union, and as such will require subs to be union.

   This project is too large to go nonunion. This is why large nonunion facilities almost exclusively use union contractors for large downturns. Only a union contractor can mobilize enough quality, skilled–and I stress skilled personnel for project based work.

   Finally, almost any significant project has federal funding wrapped up in its financing, which requires compliance with the Davis-Bacon Act.

   The legislation recently signed by the governor has a very narrow scope. Most projects undertaken outside the previous limits would have to be carried out by a union contractor anyway. This Bill is operatively a political sham–just like the CCO’s continuous effort to make political hay out of it.

   • If the State law has changed, as everyone seems to think it has, then Skanska can not require their subs to be union. The lowest qualified bidder for the sub work should get the job.

     • Yeah, and it will be the undocumented workers you hate so much. The reason they’re still undocumented is so republicans can continue to get filthy rich off of their sweat and tears. It’s funny how the average rural redneck voter cries about immigration but still votes for the party keeping them here as slaves.

     • Doesn’t work that way. Skanska could theoretically use non union subs, but they have significant risks associated with picket lines and the non union sub risks harassment. These issues are more costly than wage rates. People tend to assume that the real cost of union labor is isolated to wage only. IMHO wage rates can be offset a number of ways, however, the local work rules cannot. The work rules are the true cost of union labor. Requiring more personnel for a job than required, ridiculous show up time charges, and others.

   • pfft.

     • What point do you and your imaginary friends disagree with? I will be happy to discuss cogent replies. However, I stress the term cogent. Most of your posts, including this one, remind me of someone who takes care of a lot cats, and is under heavy sedation.

       • Don’t even bother Fitz; they will not allow truth to penetrate their rigid ideology. Rants and name calling is their idea of a cogent post.

     • You seem to say that a lot.

       • To those who can imaginer, the sound is somewhat reminiscent to a fizzled firecracker fuse. Fitzalled, and his machined friends do that allot.
         Nothing ever profound, or breaking any new horizons, just the standard rhetoric as they are assigned to belch out in accordance of those expected low standards assigned to them by their obvious life path connections. Its only to sustain their only pathway to living sustenance . Forgivable, maybe, but still not quite ethical by todays standards, and always lacks the core essence of a mutually beneficial business plan.
         Can’t blame them, but the real science usually disagrees with the their rhetorical rants, as well.
         Its like they’re reading a script and dictating what must happen without the actual leadership ever proven by exploration of better methodologies and more viable planning.

         Pfft, it was then, and pfft, it remains.

         • I wish you were coherent enough to debate. I hope that when I reach old age my caregiver is kind enough to keep me off the internet.

         • Bull, your care giver should be that merciful. that’s true humanistic mercy , isn’t it? Well isn’t it?
           Your just another low browed political putz from that locale . We know that, danged multiple screen named repeater poster.
           We will be back with the science every time you sport the political “putzology” ( sorry one of our members just coined that terminology) for the likes of your little localized crew.
           And straight up, they have said that’s the load of political idiots that southwestern Indiana must continue to strive to overcome…. The fare would be a better argument if you had one iota of science on your side. You as of,too date , You have not, under any screen name. Your multi personality posting hasn’t ever, made a valid point due the science involved in finding active solutions to the failures of the governance there.

           The fact that the really shallow leadership there is going to have to swallow that in the near future is enough to make any decent scientist any where on or off planet Earth break into a happy dance.
           You haven’t a chance. Its over, the fail is apparent even to the social morons that still believe your rants. Timing is everything.

           This is going to be fun, “so too speak”.

           putz.

         • I am a better engineer and more of a scientist than you ever will be. You are the queen of Foo Foo dust. I have caught you multiple times discussing issues that, to one with experience, is apparent you know nothing about. My posts are apolitical for the most part I am independent, and could care less about partisan whining, but will occasionally post on subjects that interest me. Your insanity and multiple personality disorder is entertaining.

         • Pffhitz……..

   • As it may . . but one would think that this is a process . . .four years ago it was the RTW and now the common construction wage, what next? . . .but be assured one thing . . .some of the money that labor is giving Santa Lloyd will make it into the pockets of the likes of Sullivan and McNamara who will break it off in Labor . . .GO TO THE BANK ON THIS . . .

3. Wait a minute….

   …….the City County Observer and several CCO posters in here have been implying Ivy Tech Evansville is being unfairly excluded from the IU Medical School project because of some uppity preference for IU, USI and U of E.

   Is that true?

   Are those Posters and the CCO fairly representing the situation?

   Or is it because there really is a problem with Ivy Tech statewide?

   • The Star Press Muncie/USA Today
     May 1, 2015

     Ivy Tech Community College’s statewide construction spree that started a quarter-century ago has been suspended for 2015 by Indiana state officials. The Ivy Tech Indiana construction spree this century has included funding for capital projects in Anderson, Marion, Richmond, Lafayette, Bloomington, Evansville, Terre Haute, Valparaiso, Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, Elkhart, Warsaw and many other communities.

     In 2015 Ivy Tech Indiana asked the Indiana Legislature this year to fund capital projects in Ivy Tech Kokomo, Ivy Tech Evansville (as part of the new IU Medical School) and Ivy Tech Columbus with Ivy Tech Muncie as the first priority.

     The 2015-17 state budget recently adopted by the Legislature eliminated a $25 million appropriation to modernize Ivy Tech Muncie’s outdated Cowan Road campus including a new manufacturing technology training center. The Muncie project was Ivy Tech’s top priority statewide and had been approved by the Indiana Commission for Higher Education (ICHE).

     “We are deeply disappointed,” Andy Bowne, chancellor of the East Central Indiana Region of Ivy Tech, told The Star Press. “To be that close and have it be not funded is just deeply disappointing. It’s about supporting job creation and supporting families. I am disappointed for our community.”

     Legislators representing East Central Indiana are giving different explanations for the statewide construction moratorium, though the chairman of the Indiana Senate Appropriations Committee said it was because the college is not successful. Sen. Doug Eckerty, R-Yorktown, said, “Essentially, what it was, if you look at Ivy Tech system-wide over the course of the last decade or maybe 10 to 15 years, they’ve been on some pretty massive expansion projects all across the state. I think the general feeling was that that had come at the expense of some other universities and some initiatives the governor wanted to work on across the state and there just wasn’t enough money to do it all. I am sure the intent is to come back in two years and assist the Muncie folks with their project and get that back underway.”

     But according to Senator Tim Lanane, D-Anderson, the construction freeze was related to declining enrollment and poor graduation rates. “Senator (Luke) Kenley, chairman of the Indiana Appropriations Committee, held deep concerns about graduation rates and enrollment numbers for Ivy Tech statewide,” Lanane said. “Senator Kenley pointed this out, too: He said Ivy Tech graduation rates are among the lowest of any community college in the nation.”

     Ivy Tech’s Graduation Rates are the Lowest in the United States
     Kenley, R-Noblesville, told The Star Press it’s “time to call timeout” to “see if we can’t find our path here” before moving forward in the next budget cycle with a plan that is “successful,” because “right now it’s not happening.” Ivy Tech’s graduation rates aren’t among the lowest in the nation; they are the lowest, he said. And full-time equivalent enrollment dropped from about 65,000 to about 49,000 from 2011 to 2014.

     Lanane noted that the budget bill included language requiring ICHE to review programs offered by Ivy Tech that have low graduation rates and authorizing ICHE to restructure or eliminate those programs. “I didn’t hear Sen. Kenley say, ‘I don’t like that project in Muncie,’ “ Lanane said. “It was focused on graduation rates and declining enrollment.

     “This is a major disappointment for me,” Lanane told The Star Press. “I understand there are some issues the state wants to look at with Ivy Tech, but this project in Muncie was intended for the benefit of the community, in particular the manufacturing sector. I pointed out that it’s unfortunate the community is losing a very valuable project, or at least having it delayed.”

     Ivy Tech has been talking to legislators about the Muncie project since at least 2009.

     Kenley shares the community’s disappointment that the Muncie project has been stopped, but he is convinced that everyone will agree that the state shouldn’t invest in something “that may or may not work,” based on falling enrollment and a poor success rate.

     • Ivy Tech’s graduation rates are the lowest in the nation?

       …..don’t some of the people in here have some explaining to do? If you do a good job, you’re supposed to be rewarded for that. And if you don’t…..how can you justify the expansion?

       • Graduation rates based on who’s standards? Everyone know that a lot of the students that are going to Ivy Tech do so while also working full time jobs or maybe two jobs at the same time while taking a few classes off and on until they can graduated with a two year degree. Just because they can’t go a full 4 years straight does not mean that they are worse off and unworthy of State Funding. Ivy Tech graduates or prepares a lot of students that graduate from other schools. There are many kids that go to Ivy Tech first and then later end up going to IU or USI to graduate with degrees. Ivy Tech is just as worthy of State Funding at the other schools. This is more political than anything else and it’s a plain as the nose on our faces.

         • But MOVEON….what about how Ivy Tech ranks….even among other schools in its category….last in graduation rates.

           Other schools nationally in Ivy Tech’s category do EXACTLY what you are describing. But Ivy Tech ranks last?

           What about that, moveon?
           …
           …

           (MOVEON…I give you credit for at least responding to this. You are the ONLY one among a sea of other CCO posters wailing about the lack of funding for Ivy Tech as being an unfair point of criticism. But this stat….it is damning.)

         • If that is the case then why did Santa Lloyd sell the deal to the City Council at the 57 MILLION dollar level knowing quite well Ivy Tech would be cut out . . . based on the grad levels . . he should have known . . .but again, Santa does not connect dots well . . .

       • Is the Ivy Tech graduation rate really lower than that of IU basketball players under Coach Crean?

         • Twenty penny nail.

         • V, that’s a big one.

       • I have opined on the exclusion of the IVY Tech students before. In view of the declining enrollments and that a supposed 1,700 students from the brand new IVY Tech facility would be destined for downtown, I will dig my heels in further that there is no reason to put tax dollars into bricks and mortar. The new building on the north side is handling the load now. If 1,700 students are moved downtown it creates a large number of square footage with no students to fill the void. Even if IVY Tech were graduating 100% of their students there is no need for additional facilities at this time. Perhaps if the graduation rate were at an acceptable level some new demand would be created and an expansion would be appropriate. I agree with you Quark Donahue. This is not politics. It is simply a supply, demand, and performance issue.

   • Quark. If you disagree with my statements about the former mayor and the state just come right out and say it. Don’t try to beat around the bush. It’s about as obvious as a little green tree frog sitting on the Governor’s nose.

     Quark are you trying to tell us that Politics had nothing to do with Ivy Tech not getting the money they requested while all the other’s got their money? I’d dispute you if you did.

     • Moveon, I think you are unfairly blaming “politics” when something else is the problem…..Ranking last in graduation rates.

       As to somebody beating around the bush……..? It’s not me. Saying it’s politics is.

       Pointing out that ranking last in graduation rates has to be taken into consideration……and finding common ground with those that believe Ivy Tech’s processes/procedures/decisions….need review……before throwing more $ their way…..Well, THAT is not beating around the bush Moveon.

       • I believe the correct term for the ugly dis is “ego-politics”, inexcusable, and proven to be very costly to the revenue base abused during the process.

4. IU might want to wait on this project. I don’t know of anybody who expected a good experience given Winnecke’s track record. It is unfortunately very difficult to believe anything he says at this point.

   Old Downtown is dead. Funneling public dollars into that pit to layer over the rotted infrastructure with short glitz defines the administration’s mindset. Many of the voters have been lulled into not voting by the Winnecke mob’s serial heavy handed ineptitude. The thrumming emanating from the 3rd floor of the Civic Center is a … thud. It is becoming Evansville’s soundtrack. It would be a strange and dangerous turn if a bunch of amateurish politicos can rely on incompetence and dishonesty and survive longer than one term. Winnecke is poised to pack the city council to do his bidding. If the electorate lets that happen it will be decades before Evansville can recover.

   Don’t forget the hotel with it’s outright lie of a bulldozer parked amid the wine bottles on that filthy lot. That hotel is now a Pancaked Hilton and bears no resemblance to what was promised or what the council voted on, it resembles air. The price remains the same or goes up. You can get air at Thorntons for 25¢. Don’t forget Winnecke being taken off by a pretty ordinary conman or having to go, hat in hand, to Indy to get a city financial audit made presentable. Don’t forget he fought like the dickens to put the ever-morphing medical school downtown, ignoring several obviously more appropriate and suitable sites. The medical school was sold as an economic benefit, no one has offered a reasonable explanation as to just how. In fact, just the opposite seems to be the case. It took only a short time for it to devolve into convention hotel redux. Don’t forget his tantrum that infuriated the EPA over his continued neglect of the mandate to fix the sewer system. Don’t forget the cross march that had at least his tacit approval or the tens of thousands of dollars it cost the city in legal fees. He is using legal appeals, at your expense, as dilatory tactics to back-burner sensitive issues and make them easiser for the voters to forget (as in the Milan case). Don’t forget his active participation in the secret meeting that stole the Homestead Tax Credit away (when caught: ‘It wasn’t my best hour in public service’) or his swift willingness to try to spread the blame around. The above list is by no means inclusive, and unfortunately he’s not done yet. We must vote to deny him a council majority until we can cashier him, assuring that he is indeed almost done.

   Given the circumstances of his election Winnecke was an accidental mayor if ever there was one. We should go to the polls and show him our bamboozlement was temporary and so was his term as mayor. I don’t know of a single accomplishment he can point to that would even remotely warrant his re-election.

   • Well, I acknowledge this is well-written propaganda against Winnecke, but some of it sounds somewhat hollow…so in fairness:

     1. Indiana University and the IU Health System want to expand and locate in Evansville. That’s good, right?

     2. Indiana University wanted to locate the school in downtown Evansville. That doesn’t sound like downtown is dead, right?

     3. All of the things you said Winnecke was doing wrong about the project work downtown, Gail Riecken wants and supports those same things, right?

     • You didn’t have a credible rebuttal, right?

       • Rebuttal? IU is expanding into downtown Evansville and that’ s a good thing, and apparently Gail Riecken and Lloyd Winnecke support this new downtown Evansville project. I think you forgot to point that out.

         • Shem, your support of Winnecke turns on ‘she did it too’. Much like Winnecke’s defense of his shoddy (being charitable there) accounting practices, ‘previous administrations did the same thing’.
           Weak.

         • Actually, I’m not supporting WInnecke by pointing these things out.

           What I am doing is asking the Riecken supporters to explain how criticizing Winnecke on the downtown project while Riecken supports the same….is justifiable. To me, there is little difference, right?

           (Stipulating….other than a major one for me, which is I really don’t think Riecken would come out and support stupid, dumb, ignorant, insane ideas like putting white crosses across a swatch of the city).

           The propaganda you’ve written….there doesn’t appear to be a principle-based reason to support Riecken within it……your reason for supporting Riecken smacks only of “Well, I like my guy better. He’s not gonna do any better than the other guy, but at least he’s MY guy.”

           This is a sincere answer B. When you point out the defense is “previous administrations did the same thing”…….with Riecken matching Winnecke’s support on the downtown project……DOESN’T that just reinforce we can expect Riecken to ALSO do “the same thing” B?

         • (QD),
           Everything I wrote is true to the best of my knowledge. Continue to characterize it as propaganda if it makes you feel better. I certainly meant to do Winnecke no favors when I wrote it, it is true nevertheless.

           Gail Riecken has said she is for the hotel and medical school as proposed. She has not said, publicly anyway, whether or not she’d have wanted the school sited downtown if she would have been mayor when it became available. If she would have, I would disagree with that. Winnecke was the mayor when the school came up and probably with the good offices of Pat Shoulders got the IU Trustees to agree with his preferred site. That doesn’t make it the right site but probably makes it where it’s going. Barring a major and unlikely turnaround, in whatever final shape it takes, it will be downtown. I don’t have to agree with that and don’t.

           I won’t claim to speak to what Rep. Riecken thinks as others here do but it’s not too much of a stretch to imagine that she realizes nothing is to be gained by saying what she ‘would have done’ at this point. Maybe she would have done the same thing. I think it would be difficult for anyone to make a case that downtown is a better site than Gateway, the Promenade or USI. Doc Adams tried the other day and it wasn’t convincing or pretty.

         • Not if we have to pay for all of it and retain no ownership over the buildings. That’s HOGWASH just like the stupid damn motel downtown. Let the private people build and pay for their hotels. The tax payers should not be funding the hotel and if they are required to fund the IU medical center then the city taxpayers should retain ownership and not have to pay RENT for the duration of the school every damn month. We should own it and save the rent money. Now maybe they will hire someone to help manage and maintain the building and pay them. That’s totally different.

       • “All of the things you said Winnecke was doing wrong about the project work downtown, Gail Riecken wants and supports those same things, right?”

         This is not a credible rebuttal for Winnecke’s mismanagement, but it calls your own credibility into question. Gail Riecken unswervingly supported every action of Jonathan Weinzapfel, just as she has unswervingly supported all the downtown development schemes that Winnecke–very much simply following the lead of Weinzapfel–has pursued. You cannot rage against Winnecke and cheerlead for Riecken without convicting yourself of hypocrisy. You cannot be seen as credible unless you denounce both candidates, who realistically are peas in a pod in terms of their essential policies.

         There are really only two explanations for the hugely self-contradictory tirades you engage in: 1) you are simply a pathological hater of Republicans, and/or 2) you are dependent on a Democrat holding the mayor’s office for a job or business.

         • The only solution. Woz for Mayor!

         • Perhaps, but one thing is most certain, if this Governor has his way, you union guys better learn spanish fast . . .why. . . how will you be able to ask for a cold beer in spanish . . pathetic that you have allowed the union bosses to give your hard earned money to Santa Lloyd and in turn send to Sullivan and McNamara in turn vote out the common construction wage . . .very sad for those hard working rank and rife while the fatcat union bosses gather in the back rooms filled with their cigar smoke . . .

         • Until Santa Lloyd places Ms Jan Yellen on his dept head list he will be staring reality directly in the face very soon . . . question: is he totally inept or diabolical or a bit of both? . . .just think four years from now . . .sitting on his patio in sunny Tucson . . .having his morning beverage . . .thinking “suckers” . . .

     • He never can refute what’s said. All he does is question it to no avail. Whinny is a failure and there no doubting that. Bandana you documented a lot of what he’s done that many will consider failures. Quark is a fool if he thinks that they are not failures.

       • Look moveon….it is being pointed out, convincingly and repeatedly, that Riecken advocates the same policies on the downtown development projects you are so critical of….and you WILL NOT acknowledge it and certainly not defend it. It is hypocritical. So you are left to be considered as merely someone at Gail’s feeding trough. If that IS NOT true, then you have to acknowledge this glaring inconsistency in your posts on this subject and the Mayoral race.

         • Quark – their politics are determined by what and whom they hate rather than clarified core values and thought-out beliefs. They think Winnecke spends too much while giving Obama a pass. By the time he, Obama, leaves office he will have accumulated more debt than all the other presidents before him combined.

       • You sure name call a lot. Does that make you feel superior?

5. Another act cancels on the Ford Center. Is there no hope for shithole EvansHell? 240 jobs lost this week too.

6. IU Medical School: The Condominium Approach

   How do these condos match up with Doc Adams diatribe about getting all these professions to work together ? If they all retreat back to their condos each day–where/when does the cross-pollination he is calling for happen ?

   • I believe at that point they call in the bees or the Duke Lacrosse team.

     • They have to qualify the extra cost for the failed and outdated infrastructure in old Evansville’s lousy utilities base. They, negated it ,and now those cronies want the bailout.
       Its completely insane to sport the medical extension campus in that dirge failed infrastructure. The cost is intrusive and the location is toxic and proven somewhat dangerous almost on a weekly basis. Throw these idiots out of office, and finally do something positive to grow the entire southwestern Indiana’s structured profitable base.
       If I placed a ballot there I’d write in my canine buddy , he’s reliable and doesn’t ask for much but some well deserved attention for his loyal and dependable
       daily work.

       http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1284728017009.jpg

     • Duke lacrosse team? WTF?

   • And, Green_ Light, given the description of the condominium approach, why is it even called the IU Medical School?

7. C- dog for mayor. http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/images/1284728017009.jpg

8. Rock on climate migration, puny Evansville politics cannot stop it. Ever, but do expect the focus now. No more buys. now the balance meets the means.

   • Is this your girlfriend V?

     http://adweek.it/1wc6s3q

     • Nope, not a chance Miley’s too skinny, and too addicted. My friend is a tad on the predictably wild side. However only when in shared close company. She rocks the little black dress and then the presentation to the companies board the day after.
       I wouldn’t dare reveal the partner inside an close couples sexuality that I spend time with on a blog site, really we are all better than that. Hopefully.

       One hint “regulator”, she’s really smart, and Euro- Brazilian. Younger than I, and about ten damned times as hot. My attempt at what is the new centuries mix. Hell it works. So far…….

       • Sounds fantastic but just a word to the wise, don’t marry her or you’ll wake up on your honeymoon with Godzilla with bad breath and her hand searching for your wallet pocket.

         You de man V!

         I read everything you write.

         Sometimes……

         • “Sometimes……” 🙂

           Guess I couldn’t blame you for that……

9. Dire Straits
   May 15, 2015 at 7:36 pm

   Quark – their politics are determined by what and whom they hate rather than clarified core values and thought-out beliefs. They think Winnecke spends too much while giving Obama a pass. By the time he, Obama, leaves office he will have accumulated more debt than all the other presidents before him combined.
   ===========================================================================================

   Oh BTW Mr. I only count one side of the ledger, Obama has also increased our nation’s assets by more than all the other president’s before him, combined.

   It’s NET WORTH that counts dumbass, not just the liabilities. Assets – Liabilities = Net Worth and out nation’s net worth has increased over $25 TRILLION during Obama’s presidency. EPIC. FAIL.

   You’re only the 20th or 30th conner to come on here and try to that ignorant misinformed yapping point.

   Oh and BTW Obama’s pct increase in government spending, including the stimulus, is the lowest in 70 years.
   You know percentages correct? Those fractions that we learned in 5th and 6th grade?

   • Complete and utter spin combined with the absence of civility. The new American.

     • You come on here a spread one-sided misinformation and the worst kind of misleading propaganda and then have the unmitigated gall to call my fact based rebuttal spin?

       You and your ilk are why we’re trailing the world in most everything these days(save military spending and misadventures)

     • Seriously….Dire Strait’s comment here is EXACTLY like a naked man criticizing another naked man….for being naked.

       (He’s afraid to address an excellent point…..)

10. Reading your angry and vitriolic posts, I suspect you would be outclassed in a biker bar. Alas, that is true for much of your ilk.

11. You still can’t refute his post though. Typical.

12. CCO: where is the weekend open forum ? I want to comment on Tim Ethridge’s editorial on Sunday, 5/17.

    Please open it up !

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