IS IT TRUE March 10, 2014

Mole #??
Mole #??

IS IT TRUE March 10, 2014

IS IT TRUE that tonight is the night that the Evansville City Council according to several well placed sources will be starting the process of rescinding the $4.8 Million loan that they passed at the request of Mayor Winnecke and several of their own in 2012 to invest in Earthcare Energy LLC?…it was just last week that the first $200,000 loan to Earthcare that was made without notifying the City Council through a seldom used Loan Administration Board came due?…of course it was not about to be paid back, there is no tangible evidence of progress made by Earthcare that was discussed prior to the Loan Administration Board passing a two year extension of the loan under the same cheap terms as before?…if the City Administration wanted to write a check to Earthcare Energy LLC they could do so because the City Council failed to rescind this two years ago after Mayor Winnecke terminated the deal over patent and loan misrepresentation?…it is very important that the Evansville City Council take this $4.8 Million off the table by rescinding the loan approval tonight so no more taxpayer dollars are thrown at a folly?…the City County Observer formally requests that our readers who give a darn about the management of the City of Evansville call your Council Representative & Mayor Winnecke to let them know that rescinding has your support?…if you really feel strongly then please attend the City Council meeting tonight at the Civic Center and say your piece about rescinding the $4.8 Million and the extension of the $200,000 loan with no collateral, no progress, and no stomach for a shameful loan coming to light in an election year?

IS IT TRUE we are pleased to report that the USI Screaming Eagles men’s basketball team took to the Ford Center like a duck to water in winning the Great Lakes Valley Tournament over Bellarmine by a score of 86 – 73 in front of a home crowd of 3,425?…the run by the Eagle men saved the attendance at the tournament from the doldrums as the women’s teams had attendance that wasn’t even on par with high school teams drawing only 170 people to the semifinals and 407 to the championship game?…in the men’s games in which USI was not a participant the average attendance was only 340 people?…what was learned from this tournament is that if there is no hometown team playing that Evansville really has no fan base whatsoever for the game of basketball?…we also learned that even when the marquee men’s team is on a tear that the Ford Center is absolute overkill for the Great Lakes Valley tournament?…we also can take a lesson that the only tourism coming to town and spending the night in hotel rooms are likely to be the teams, coaches, and cheer squads as the USI fan base is LOCAL as the attendance figures proved?

IS IT TRUE for their on the court heroics the USI teams that travelled to the Ford Center on two busses were rewarded with a pair of parking tickets for parking near the Ford dealership across the street?…one sure fire way for the City of Evansville to send a message that the Ford Center is not a friendly place for daytime events is to give tickets to the spectator vehicles?…if someone doesn’t have some egg on their face over this little stunt then there is a mental disconnect on how to pretend to be a tourist destination?

IS IT TRUE that Mayor Winnecke is finally scheduled to have his GOLDEN SHOVEL MOMENT down at the lot where a hotel was promised to have been in 2008 if we only built an arena for the latest incarnation of a downtown convention hotel?…HCW of Branson, MO will be in attendance but has yet to announce that they have secured the financing for the deal?…if the financing is not secured by 21 days from today the contract lapses and will have to be extended or allowed to lapse?…extending contracts for financial troubles is getting to be a regular event with City of Evansville business these days?…we do hope this one goes through but do not think that a GOLDEN SHOVEL EVENT is on the closing check list for any bank’s loan committee to approve a loan?…quite the opposite, such a thing would be seen as a theatrical production and a photo op if the financing is not in place before mugging for the cameras?


  1. Copied from a friends Facebook status:

    “Went to the Ford Center today (Friday) to take advantage of seeing an afternoon basketball game. Went to two parking garages and they were full, something was going on at the Center so I figured their lot would be full and with all the businesses open could hardly find a place to park. Finally found a spot on the street about 2 1/2 blocks away from the new arena that we are all being encouraged to attend events at. Paid $15.00 for my ticket $7.00 at the concession stand and then the topper on my way to my car I noticed that all the cars that I passed up on the way to my truck 2 and a half blocks away had parking tickets on them, then got to the street I was parked on and noticed the five vehicles parked in front of me also had tickets on them. Got to mine and it to had a ticket on it. Called the Mayors office, in a pretty foul mood and told them what I thought about their means of making extra money off of people that were trying to take advantage of the new arena they shoved down our throats when we had an arena that had no parking problems. It is not the people’s fault that an event was scheduled at the Ford Center on a weekday in the middle of the afternoon. I would love to have talked to the Mayor personally but they would not let me.”

    • It is kinda hard to talk to the mayor when he is fearfully curled up in a fetal position sucking his thumb in the corner of his office. That “hear no criticism” pose is getting old. This guy is all about dancing, selfies, and golden shovel days. He has no time for the seriousness of governing. He even has an ill-tempered attack dog named Schaefer to keep constructive criticism from reaching his dainty ears.

      • I think you summed up what I have observed about this administration very nicely. Thank you!

    • BigPappa,

      You are just wrong ! I think we have found the key to our fiscal woes: schedule more daytime events at the Fraud Center, and then write the tickies all day long !

      No tickie, no parkie !!

    • I’m sorry that your friend had a bad experience, but in other cities it cost $25 or more just to park during special events. Roberts Stadium’s parking was one of the few places that I have seen where parking is free. We were spoiled by that and think that’s the way that it should be. Even then, during some events you would have to walk a good distance to make it to the stadium.

      I agree that parking fees should be suspended during downtown events. If we are trying to draw crowds downtown, ticketing the attendees of events is not the way to attract growth. I can hardly imagine how people that came from other cities felt about the tickets.

      • I went to the Super Bowl in Indy. Parking was $20. Do not confuse Evansville with Indianapolis or the Super Bowl with the GLVC tournament. Evansville is still in the bush leagues and needs to be content with it pays to be bush league. Ticketing people during the tournament was just stupid. All it would have taken from the Mayor is to think just a little ahead and tell the meter maids to take a half day off in the downtown. Is that asking to much of the guy elected to lead the city?

        By the way, Roberts had a surcharge on each ticket for parking. I think it was $3. Even people who walked to the games paid the surcharge.

        • Mayor was too busy deciding what to wear for his golden shovel show to think about parking tickets. We hired a PR guy and that is what he acts like. Too bad Billy Mayes wasn’t available. Maybe next time we can elect that ShamWow peddler.

          • Tyranical no because no one is damaged by it but the city’s revenue. Unlawful maybe. That depends on whether the parking practices are part of the law or not. Executive order, of course. I will revise my comment to call for FREE PARKING downtown on the street all of the time. It is a little known fact that the City loses money on parking enforcement. The meter maids costs more than they collect but they are TEAMSTERS and have had the mayors of Evansville by the balls for many years now. I say fire them all and be done with it.

        • Who do the “meter maids” work for? When I received a parking ticket, I was told to address it with the City Clerk. So I would assume that they work for her. When I addressed it with the City Clerk’s office, they cited the City Ordinance. Therefore, I would say that the parking ticket issue during Friday’s game is Common Council’s issue, not the Mayor.

          • I want to know who the hell ticked the USI busses. Does the City Clerk have meter maids working on Sundays? Half the time those people are over at Buehlers on Illinios and Main by 3:30 on weekdays to do their shopping and then transfer the bags from the meter carts to their private vehicles in the back-40 parking lot. So, who’s the nitwit who ticked the USI busses?

          • I think that this is something that we all can agree on. No one should be ticketed during an event at any of our downtown venues. I’d like to see this addressed in the same swift and fair manner as the sign ordinance issue a few months ago. After all, we do have another big basketball tourney coming soon.

          • I agree 100%. Hopefully our gong show will put this on the agenda ahead of some of the other lesser important photo op issues.

    • Big Pappa,Oh my! Tickets?
      While on the Tristatehomepage this morning I noticed something about (the dirtiest town in America) down in Florida.
      Dang, CNN called it a swampy dirty little cesspool of 31 city audit problems. They even listed the audit,hey at least they have one. You should read the audit,little place in a swamp,with water department issues,as well. Admitting I felt some “deja vu a bit”while reading the audit and watching the video.

      Sounded a bit extreme,insane is the way they put it.

    • Do you really think the mayor has so little to do he should accept phone calls about parking tickets? Get off your high horse.

      • Especially when the Mayor has nothing to do with parking tickets. They were “parking” up the wrong tree.

    • Give me a break, I live downtown and work downtown and park in the city garage on sycamore. The parking garage was not even 1/4 full at anytime Friday. I would guess you parked on the street, thinking the timed parking did not apply to you, and to save the five bucks it would have cost you to park in the garage.

      Why don’t you cry babies get a life and give me a break.

  2. Yesterday’s (3-9-14) Evansville Courier&Press [Time to Remember] column by John Gottcent, page 3B, contained this former news item for the 25 years ago section:

    “Mayor Frank McDonald II has decided a Downtown stadium is ‘unrealistic’ and is calling for a $10-million renovation of Roberts Stadium to begin this summer. McDonald said he met with two national sports facilities management companies and received very pessimistic opinions from both on whether a city like Evansville could support a new Downtown stadium.”


    • That $10 Million estimate turned into over double that amount and the “improvements” caused the floor to leak because the idiot cronies that McDonald hired didn’t even do any core drilling to identify the depth of the water table. One might even say that the Ford Center got its start as a result of McDonald’s ill advised project at Roberts. He did get some good advice on national sports facilities though.

      • WHAT? The soil report was completed in 86. The water pumps were put in by design and they worked just fine. And when they outlived their useful life, Peyronnin Construction replaced them for a little over $500,000 in 05. The roof over the original structure was also replaced for a little over $600,000. That goes with the parking lot being repaved and sound stage being completely replaced.

        The city did not demolish a 56 year old building, they demolished a 22 yr old one. I’ll give you that I hated that we lost a large percentage of the original building, most notably the original floor that Jerry Sloan, Walt Frazier, and Larry Humes played on. But saying that the renovation was a mistake is not correct. It saved the city several hundred million dollars, and should still be serving the city.

        Now does that mean that a new arena should not have been built? NO. Does that mean that a new arena should not have been downtown? NO. What it means is that the renovation worked successfully and it still had a good amount of useful life left in it.

        I really don’t understand this Ford Center vs Roberts Stadium argument. They were not mutually exclusive. The only people trying to egg that on were the city and its minions who say they don’t care and can’t answer questions yet come on here with more bull about it day by day.

        This GLVC Tournament was more solid proof of the mess we are in. It’s way too small for the Ford Center and its expenses yet way too large and community respected for PAC or a gym. But what do we do now? That’s the same predicament for multiple sports leagues and tournaments now.

        The blame rests solely on Weinzapfel and Winnecke, McDonald and certainly not Hafer Associates who designed 4 iconic gates that will never be duplicated.

      • One other thing. The proposal to build a downtown arena was first introduced by Vandeveer who wanted a 15,000 Dome near where the Tropicana Hotel stands now. There is no saying that building wouldn’t have been demolished last year as well. The 80s were a terrible time for arena building. In fact, all 3 NBA arenas built in the 80s have now been demolished.

        The city struck out with a workable plan for a downtown arena in 1998 when SIGECO, Citizens Bank, USI, and a few other banks raised funds to put together a study to build a downtown arena for USI. This arena would have given USI the time to move up to the Div I level which would have probably kept Bruce Pearl from bolting to UW-Mlwaukee. USI needs a new arena more than UE. Now they both do.

        • “The 80s were a terrible time for arena building. In fact, all 3 NBA arenas built in the 80s have now been demolished” In fact? My God man, does your bullcrap have no boundaries? How can you so boldly make false statements? ZERO of those 3 arenas built in the 80’s have been demolished:

          Before you make ludicrous accusations about people and their posts on this site, you should do your own homework. Your credibility just tanked and you have no one to blame but yourself.

          • Hi Wayne. You are most certainly right, I wasn’t thinking existing NBA teams so Yes I do need to clarify. All arenas in the NBA expansion cities in the eighties . Orlando, Miami, and Charlotte are all gone.

            You’re attacking my credibility? When do you plan on proving that task report? And where is your civil engineer report? Hiding behind an assumed screen name? Oh the horror.

          • And it’s funny you post that since two of those three are currently on their way out and will undoubtedly meet the wrecking ball unless something creative comes up. But hey you knew that too right.

          • Ludicrous accusations? Name them, but try using your real name (isn’t that what you would say? ).

          • Heck Wayne, now that I looked at it again, my post is still correct. I said “all 3 NBA arenas built in the 80s” I DID NOT say which ones they were and I certainly DID NOT say they were the ONLY 3 which I wasn’t even implying in the first place.

            The reason I even brought them up specifically is because they were built in either 88 or 89 during which the debate over renovating Roberts was discussed.

            I’m going to go out on a limb here and say those other three were emailed to you. Your minions sure are pathetic.

        • I’m curious why you say USI needs a new Arena? I hate way you enter the PAC and the concessions are terrible, but capacity wise it is fine. I heard they are remodeling the entry was this year.

          • I love pac but it’s a training gym. It cannot do what an arena structure can. USI will eventually need proper luxury amenities, proper multiple points of sale, and adequate arena features to make a move up the ranks and sustain itself .

    • Normally, we look back at old quotes and laugh at the lack of vision. I would say this is another example. Like Yoda said, Mayor McDonald’s quick fix made things worse for the taxpayers. While we ponder the Mayor’s past observation, let’s also consider this famous quote:

      “There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home.” – Ken Olsen, 1977

      • Yes, and if you want a really good laugh go back and look at the projected revenue figures for a host of publicly financed local government projects, like the Centre, Amazonia, and the Downtown Arena, just to name a few.

        You will laugh so hard it will bring tears to your eyes.


    • PAK: ( ie, My 9:44 comment)

      CNN,reports, “reads like a primer on municipal malfeasance.” “It found 31 instances local rules or state or federal laws were violated in ways large and small.”

      The audit is also listed you seem to like the numbers,and rules,somewhat,as I’ve noticed with your comments.

      You ought to read that audit, the water stuff caught my eye so to speak. That because the added increase due your sewer/water infrastructures aged service areas,and the EPA mandate. Geez audits,at least they have one.


    • PAK: ( ie, My 9:44 comment)

      CNN,reports, “reads like a primer on municipal malfeasance.” “It found 31 instances local rules or state or federal laws were violated in ways large and small.”

      The audit is also listed you seem to like the numbers,and rules,somewhat,as I’ve noticed with your comments.

      You ought to read that audit, the water stuff caught my eye so to speak. That because the added increase due your sewer/water infrastructures aged service areas,and the EPA mandate. Geez audits,at least they have one.


      • No comparison between those bottom feeders in Hampton and Evansville’s sophisticated operators. Here $200.K is chump change.


          • No sheriff. The legislatures write all this statute and in reality there is no one enforcing it. If you never make an example of even one miscreant, it does little to discourage abuse.

            Like when Indiana statute states that there shall be an annual financial audit or review of the contract between the City of Evansville and SMG, Inc., and none takes place for 6 years. The city violated statute, the state board of accounts violated statute by letting them get away with it for six years, and no one is interested in enforcement.

            Can you rightfully call that “government”?



  3. “if the financing is not secured by 21 days from today the contract lapses and will have to be extended or allowed to lapse?…”

    I sincerely hope that HCW secures financing. I am equally sincerely doubtful that it will happen within 21 days. I am wondering if City Council will allow the extension of the contract or if we go “back to the drawing board” yet again. This process is getting very, very old.

    • Well, at least Old National has put up their part, haven’t they? Of course they have, it’s the Old National Events Plaza now.

      I’m sure they’ve ponied up, the Centre has been renamed and their free tickets and other gifts have been tendered. I hope the hotel happens but it looks shaky. HCW’s financing seems every bit as real as the hotel groundbreaking that was scheduled for this past January 23.

      • I’m still curious about the use of said venue for the Lincoln Day get-together. Public venues are traditionally used for such events, and paid for by the party putting it on, but I wonder if ONB may have donated one of their “freebies” for this one.

  4. ‘…there is no tangible evidence of progress made by Earthcare that was discussed prior to the Loan Administration Board passing a two year extension of the loan under the same cheap terms as before?’ ~~ From CCO Article

    They could have discussed the status of the ‘loan’ with an empty chair or hired Eastwood to do it. From what I’ve read the LAB pretty much extended that ‘loan’ unilaterally. Haney didn’t even bother to send his pool boy to Evansville. That money is gone.

    No accountability from local government on this. Just quietude.

    • Todays “golden shovel” pie-in-the-sky event is expected to make the public forget all about the loan extension, and capture their imaginations with visions of a four star hotel and conventions galore.

    • “That money is gone.” Yes, but there is still another $4.8 million to burn. You think it’s easy spending that much money?

      • It’s scary the same folks can dole that 4.8 out to another set of thieves if they so desire and we won’t hear about it until it’s done. Or they can do what Dewey wants to do and give it to Haney.

        Looks like they had the hotel groundbreaking today and the HCW guy in charge of the Evansville project pointed out his bankers and said, ‘these guys loaned the money’. Classy. Unusual. Eye opening. Red flagging.

  5. We must charge for parking & enforce parking rules. Our police dept. are supposed to write tickets to everyone in violation of the law. Every city issues parking tickets.
    2 mayors have several studies saying there is plenty of available parking downtown. The problem has to be people are just being lazy. There’s no other explanation because studies don’t lie (like mayors do).
    BTW those city garages are filled during the day with people that pay monthly fees to park there. To infringe on their right to park in their assigned spot would be wrong & illegal so don’t even think about it mayor.
    Parking and crime were given as solid reasons not to build downtown and both have proved to be accurate & legitimate concerns. But it’s built & many of us will miss good shows because we refuse to enter. Oh well.

    • Oh, “the well” was supposed to been found under the other stadium,ever wonder whats under that one you’ve got there now.
      Oh,maybe thats why they are exploring surface and subsurface environmental core samples next door.
      Oh well.

      “nihil sub sole novum,”

      nothing new under the sun

      • I am sure that there is core sample information for the civic center complex construction project dating from the mid sixties, the Centre, the new central library, and of course the arena.

        If you are building to earthquake standards you might want to look at what AT&T had to do to prepare the site at 6th and Vine Street for their new building in the seventies. I seem to remember them driving an enormous amount of steel pilings to deep depths for the foundation of that building.


        • Whole different set of circumstances for the phone company (“critical use building” – comes under different section of Building Codes) than other types of building.

          The “old” Old National Bank building (18 story) did not have any foundation piling, sat on spread footings on sand base.

    • The parking problem is real when weekday events are at the Ford Center or the Centre. There were studies that showed 4,000 or so parking places within a half mile walk of the Ford Center. There are also claims that up to 20,000 people working in downtown Evansville during any given day. Those numbers do not really add up do they. The 4,000 places to park are real. If the 20,000 people working downtown which was hatched to make it look like a vibrant place were true there would never be available parking downtown. Ford Center parking is fine except for daytime events when it becomes impossible. That bit the 200 or so people who parked downtown for the basketball games square on the butt. Nothing like fining students to feed the meter maids.

      • I don’t know how many people work downtown, but I know that the largest employers there have their own private parking that would not affect the availability of event parking.

        • Can you imagine what would have happened if 10,000 people showed up during the workday for one of the ballgames. Parking downtown is fine but not when well attended events happen on a workday. Thursday and Fridays games had nearly no one in attendance and it still was made into an issue. As for who should fix the parking ticket situation. If it is by ordinance then you are correct that it is the council’s job to fix it, but it could use some advocacy from the mayor as he would have to sign it.

        • The original parking slot inventory included private parking lots including such inaccessible lots as that one behind the Post Office where the postal delivery vehicles park and the gated lots and garage that Springleaf Finance owns way the hell over on 2nd St. behind the Casino lot, which also was on the original inventory.

          • Just a matter of time before taxpayers are tapped to pay for the purchase of O’Daniel family, et al, holdings in downtown Evansville.

            Abolish the redevelopment commission before it is too late. Ask the Evansville Regional Business Committee why they gave Vincent Bertram $21,000. in 2008.


      • Don’t forget the $600,000 parking lot the City purchased for the McCurdy luxury condominiums. It seems to be empty. The City could run shuttle buses from this parking lot to the Ford Center during work-day events. Also, there is ample parking for several thousand at the Mesker Amphitheater and the City could run shuttle buses to the Ford Center.

    • Can you provide examples of crime that has affected the Ford Center or any of its visitors that would make that concern legitimate?

  6. The parking signs downtown say “2 Hour Parking Limit”. Is that just M-F and/or only during business hours? There is nothing on the signs to say that the time limits are not effective 24x7x365.

    • All I have to say about that is the working on the signs as well as the actions by the meter police should match exactly the policy set by the city council’s ordinance governing on street parking.

    • The signs have a limited amount of space so some of the details are left off. It is the responsibility of the parker to know the ordinance. At least that’s what I was told for violating a freight pick up spot while I was picking up boxes of supplies at a downtown building. By my definition, picking up cardboxes full of materials is picking up freight. By ordinance, freight only applies to trucks designated as delivery/pick up vehicles. It was my responsibility to know that the sign was only referring to those types of vehicles.

      • Look, Phyllip, I don’t mind you being an apologist for city government. I happen to support most of the current elected local office holders in both parties because I have had a great working relationship with most of them.

        However, if Evansville wants to be a destination, it needs to start acting like a destination rather than a sleepy, retail-unfriendly river town. Look at what other destination cities do on their parking signs, man. They post the hours and the days when the parking restrictions apply, and most often that does include free parking after 5 p.m. and weekends. Right?

        • I’m not an apologist for anyone and on this one, they got it wrong. Ticketing visitors to our city and our local citizens while attending an event at our arena is stupid and puts a black eye on our community. Does anyone not think about the ramifications when this gets to the GLVC brass? I can see if it slipped the minds of some people at the Civic Center, but the parking enforcement person writing the ticket has to use better judgement and call it in to higher authorities.

          My post about knowing the ordinances was mostly sarcasm. It’s ridiculous to have signs that are so ambiguous.

          • If your ignorance of the law reference was sarcasm, then we agree 100% on this issue. Whoever wrote the tickets to both the USI busses and the private vehicles on Sunday, if true, is an idiot and an enemy of tourism in Evansville. But we still do not know who that person is, do we?

          • Can anyone confirm that tickets were written on Sunday? As far as I know, the aforementioned tickets were on Friday. I don’t even think that parking enforcement works on weekends.

        • What I mean, Phyllip, is that tourists and sports destination travelers shouldn’t have to go to the city webpages to discover whether our parking ordinance applies to after hours or weekends, right?

          Guests in our city should be able to drive into downtown and park without that inconvenience, right? Besides, does the city website even provide that information?

          This should not be a case of “ignorance of the law is no excuse.” This should be ignorance on signage is no excuse.

          • Actually what the mayor needs to do is personally call the people in charge of the GLVC and formally apologize for any tickets they or their patrons might have received, and have all the tickets voided, then call the department head in who is responsible for the meter maids in his office and chew some ass!

            And if he didn’t have the foresight to see this coming he should stand in-front of a mirror and give himself a good 30 min ass chewing, or better yet let his wife do it! 😉


    • BigPappa, the two hour limit is a cumulative lifetime limit. You may park in each spot for a limit of two hours over your lifespan.

  7. This is off topic, but needs to be known by all home delivery subscribers to the C&P. Delivery for home subscribers for all 7 days of the week has increased from $19.45 per month to $19.34, Sundays only is now 16.08. These are extremely large increases for a very poor product; one more nail in the coffin for our only local print source for news. I personally will miss only the crosswords and the feel of a paper in my hands with my coffee.

      • But Hey! you do get access to their web site with that subscription don’t you? They have priced themselves out of most homes, I can’t imagine why anyone would pay $30 a month for such a publication.


        • One of my Bud’s there in the area,accesses a paper copy,through his workplace. Takes out the phone snaps the obit pages sends it to his contacts phones or devices.

          Works fine has the information needed and then deleted. free communication. Really no different than verbal a phone call. Personally I’d prefer the verbal call if it was a mutual contact. 😉

      • That’s a serious increase. I doubt it will still be in print by the end of the year, although they will probably have an online edition.

  8. Did you get a invite to the ground breaking today?? I think all the othere newspapers where there..LOL

    • Yes we did get an invite. We saw no purpose in attending a dog and pony show. We have learned that HCW has announced that they got their financing and for that we congratulate them.

      • “Huffman, in an interview, said his company’s financing for the project has been secured. He pointed a group of bankers in attendance at the groundbreaking and said, “These guys loaned the money.””

        This is the quote that is in the Courier. Does that mean locals financed the deal?

        • I would not take that to mean that the people he pointed to were locals. I guess they could be.

      • So says the person that stated all 3 NBA arenas built in the 80’s have been demolished. You’re a hoot.

        • So says the man who hasn’t defended his position on more issues than I have hands? How could anyone take someone seriously who does that?

          Better yet, why should I trust a party who won’t even hold their own chosen PC accountable for anything.

          Keep dodging those questions. I’m still going to ask.

          • So says the man that blatantly lied about the “NBA arenas built in the ’80’s”. Just how can you defend bold face false statements? You can’t!

          • First of all if you knew how dumb you look trying to get this crap to stick you would quit wasting your time and go back to your real name .

            Second of all I didn’t even lie. I said all three arenas built in the eighties. Those being the ones in Charlotte Orlando and Miami.

      • One is private, one is under construction, and the other was paid off years ago to my knowledge . One thing I do know is all three have already had their niche market identified and are or will be scheduling appropriately . It’s amazing

  9. First of all if you knew how dumb you look trying to get this crap to stick you would quit wasting your time and go back to your real name .

    Second of all I didn’t even lie. I said all three arenas built in the eighties. Those being the ones in Charlotte Orlando and Miami.

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