IS IT TRUE February 20, 2014

Mole #??
Mole #??

IS IT TRUE Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke, Water & Sewer Utility officials, and members of the Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 136 gathered together for a GOLDEN BULL$#!t moment yesterday to kick off the highly controversial $43 Million Johnson Controls project?…they even borrowed a page from the televangelist is choosing to refer to this photo-op as a “water meter replacement celebration?”…that this is all code for putting new $1,000 water meters onto the end point of dilapidated water pipes that are 50 years overdue for replacement to the tune of another $500 Million or so?…while we are sure that these new water meters that have been touted by the Mayor and his group of cheerleaders as “an attempt to improve the city’s energy, water and network infrastructure by replacing meters that are more than five years old”, as decent meters, taking this action with decrepit water pipes as the receptor makes about as much sense as installing a new set of golden door handles on a car that is destined for the junk yard?

IS IT TRUE this whole twisted scenario started when former Mayor Jonathan Weinzapfel shoved this deal the people’s throats without a vote of the City Council during his last month in office?…this project was dead and laid in its casket by the Indiana Utilities Regulatory Commission for not meeting the requirements of being a net zero cost project before the Winnecke Administration jumped through numerous hoops to give new life to the project?…the only truly wise decision would have been to allow Weinzapfel’s last folly die on the vine, Mayor Winnecke responded like a lifeguard at the Lloyd Pool to breathe life back into this wasteful boondoggle?

IS IT TRUE when the new Woods and Woods and CCCO “Good Public Policy Video Forum” was announced this week by the City County Observer, County Councilman Pete Swaim agreed to be a guest along with his Republican primary opponent John Montrastelle?…a day later after a trip to someone’s woodshed County Councilman Swaim reneged on his commitment stating that he had been advised not to participate?…it is pretty astounding for a public official to be advised by his supporters to avail himself of the opportunity to participate in a discussion on “GOOD PUBLIC POLICY” issues? …the forum will go on with or without elected officials if “Swaim’s  Syndrome” is contagious and all of our elected officials refuse to participate? …there are plenty of other concerned and engaged citizens to discuss GOOD PUBLIC POLICY with or without the people whose jobs should require them to do so?  …we trust when Mr. Swaim  ever shows up for a public forum he will be ready to explain in detail his “no show” at the Woods and Woods “Good Public Policy” video forum?

IS IT TRUE the fallout from the much less than transparent legal bills paid by the City of Evansville has many people questioning the practice?…from those who are approving the invoices to those who are getting the checks it seems as though no one on the inside of this alleged wasteful legacy wants this information presented to the people who pay for it in a simple understandable format?…if the scattering of the beneficiaries of this inefficient practice don’t make you wonder what is wrong, then nothing ever will?…we are not implying that anything illegal is happening? …SNEGAL could be running amuck in the legal compensation department at the City of Evansville?

IS IT TRUE that there is a winning ticket in this week’s Powerball lottery and the headline payout is about $425 Million?…that means there had to have been $850 Million in tickets sold because the payouts are typically pegged at 50% of sales just like a halftime half pot by the governments that run these numbers rackets they call lotteries?…if the winner wants a cash option the payout will only be $242.2 Million or a paltry 28% which is of course taxable for both state and federal purposes?…that the reality of government run lotteries is that the governments that run them should rake the table for plenty of cash to run our schools but can’t even be counted on to keep music departments open?…we were probably better off before lotteries were sold to us as saviors of the school systems and the only numbers rackets in town were run by criminals?…what is criminal is that governments are now dependent on gambling enterprises to function and still don’t function?…if any one of us were allowed to run a numbers racket for one year or even one week we could retire in luxury, but that would be illegal?


  1. Editor,

    What is your definition of “dilapidated” pipes? Can someone shed some light on the life expectancy of water utility lines? Are we advocating that we dig up the water lines when they reach a certain numbers of years in service? Most cities that I have lived in have the same issues with water main breaks during long spells of sub-freezing weather. I would think that if the water quality at the faucet meets or exceeds water safety guidelines, then our water pipes are adequate. To replace pipes for no reason other than their age is a waste of taxpayers’ money and will add hundreds of dollars to each water customers’ annual costs.

    • We are advocating a plan that replaces pipes that need it instead of using duct tape and bailing wire and to supplement that with a multi-year program to replace them all over time. Cast iron degrades with age and many parts of Evansville with pipes over 50 have depressed pressure and brown water. It is disgusting for those who have to deal with it everyday. This is not unlike the water meter replacement as a preemptive action to avoid costly failures. With the pipes we have every one of these meters will eventually have to be taken off and re-installed due to pipe failure. That is redundant and wasteful. A better policy would be to install new meters over a longer period of time as the pipes are replaced. Remember, the advertised life of these meters is only 20 years. This folly really is like putting a brand new faucet in a house with faulty pipes when the old faucet still functions. It may make one feel good to look at that shiny new faucet, but it is not the smartest use of the family budget.

        • They used to be warranted for ten years. I wonder why they are replacing meters still under warranty. The meter dept used to replace 10% a year. this was in there budget and contract during the privatization years.

          • Well you see, its OK to replace water meters that aren’t broken and not near their lifespan but its not OK to replace water mains that are not broken, even though many of the mains are beyond or near their lifespans.

            /sarcasm off

      • If someone has brown water coming out of their faucet, wouldn’t they be able to report it to a governing agency to get it fixed? As a consumer of a municipally-owned utility there should be some action that you can take to make the responsible party fix the problem. Especially when it’s a health risk. I don’t know the answer to that question, but if anyone would like to weigh in I’d appreciate it.

    • I think for the most part, no matter how you want to slice it and given the number of water line breaks Evansville has had over the past 20 years something needs doing.

      • So should the utility be replacing the big mains that are aged over 100 years, or should they connect new individual service lines to those ancient mains so that the new meters will be attached to shiny new spouts as envisioned by the editor?

        • I cannot really answer that unless I was looking at the water line schematics. But I’ll take a stab at it and say replacing anything older than 75 years. Has there been a rash of service line breaks?

          • dveach, you seem familiar with civil engineering. Can you tell us anything about the transite (concrete and asbestos composite) water mains installed on the east side many years ago? How does this material hold up, and is it superior to iron in longevity? How about water quality issues considering the asbestos content? Would transite be a better product for water main replacement nowadays?

          • What_Next,

            I am not a civil engineer. There is no material we can use that will have a lifespan that will not at some point have problems. That’s just common sense.

            Asbestos cement and stressed cement are good choices but they will over time lose their characteristics due to water leaching and have a lifespan of around 100 years. It simply remains any thing built by man requires maintenance and Evansville has not done that for a very, very long time.

            Using the bandade approach simply kicks the can down the road and the further the walk the more costly it will be. I am not advocating a wholesale replacement but they could start with some of the oldest lines and work their way forward a step at a time.

            There are other alternative materials but the fact remains in the case of Evansville. Its system is aging as the recurring breaks are revealing.

            In other threads I have accused Evansville politicians with having a whoredom affair with things like stadiums, parks, convention centers, etc. And they do because such things are glamorous, provides them with an opportunity to have their name attached and would always be in the public’s eye.

            It has been said an rightfully so, the water main system has been neglected simply because its underground and out of sight.

      • Water main breaks are a normal occurence in most cities that experience sub-freezing temperatures. If you consider that last winter was milder than usual and this winter has been harsher than usual, that is another contributing factor to the spike this winter. The age of the pipes also contributes to the problem, but it’s not cost-effective to replace them because they may burst in the winter.

        • You are correct Phyllip. One can report this to the Water Department. And they do track those complaints…and when they start getting complaints of sediment or rust water in the lines, they simply visit the neighborhood in question and crack open the fire hydrants and let them run for a few days. This helps clear the lines. But does not resolve the problem. Time is against us, we have reached the end of life expectancy of many of the underground pipes in Evansville. The risk assessment mentioned by another user above is relevant to us and our conditions in Evansville. I included that link at the bottom.

          And yes, we are having an unusually high amount of water line breaks in Eville this seasaon, and we know it is weather related. However, the frost line (as per Indiana and Vanderburgh code) I believe is at 24″. If you go up north, they bury their lines deeper in Ft. Wayne and Gary. The State of Minnesota buries their lines at 4ft down. In Canada, it is 8ft down. So one must either conclude that we are not burying these lines far enough underground (and we have been wrong about this all of this time) or that the lines are incredibly fragile and deteriorated. I would speculate it is a combination of both. I never agreed with the 24″ frost line for Evansville. 24″ is not a lot when they backfill it with sand.

          Personally, I have recently replaced the main water line coming into my house. It was a cast iron line that was originally installed with the house in 1935. It crumbled as I removed sections of the line. It was held together by the calcium carbonate that coagulated in the line over the years. I could have taken a rubber mallet and punched holes in it.

          I am not alone in replacing household water lines in Evansville. About 1/5th of the houses on my block have a single sidewalk section that was replaced in front of them. 100% of those replacements were due to water line replacements from the city main to their meter in their (typically) front yard.

          To me this is related evidence of the current condition and age of the main cast iron lines that run under our streets.


          • Brent: We have been running a P/M model nationwide on historical vs increasing load harmonics to road surfaces and infrastructure substructures. Some data recovered in regionals of the older sections in an Old Southeastern coastal region suggests that the vibration created per/sq/Yd/ft/in loading has increased today by some probed levels at least four times(some up to 8x) what the roadbeds were originally designed for.So.

            We then applied the timing to the harmonic incursions around the sewer and water lines on certain easements to gather that and isolate and record the incursions time point contact.
            Pretty simple, Trash collection traffic is excessive stress to the original roadbeds and alleys. Never designed for those loads.

            It was also found that some urban parcel delivery logistics “can also” create excessive load variations. Large loaded route trucks delivering front door packages. Some of those passages showed “tremendous instability harmonically” to the road bases ground/even/foundation bases. (Made Amazons drone dream,look viable?)

            We did also notice due to compaction,and ground temperature in some colder regions this was really increased by subsurface freezing,that was noticed this year in the southwestern Tri-state Ohio.Kentucky,Indiana regional test sites.
            This research,simply is for the access point preparation for the Systems we are developing.
            I thought back to Evansville”s historical?Riverside/Lincolnshire districts,and the older streets there,and the brick paver horse and buggy road beds,wow,[we do not] have the ground sensors there,however you should consider the application of some passage ordinance for those older type areas.
            I would suspect the increasing load harmonics are pretty detrimental to the under laying infrastructures. I’ll even mention could be,some home foundations there along SE/1st,SE/2.

            Given the alluvial soils of Vanderburgh,and Evansville,some incursion weights should be observed to help with the accelerated breakdowns while work is underway to upgrade them.
            Preventative Measure at best,just use smaller delivery/recovery systems in those older blocks.
            Those vehicles being used today set up some tremendous load harmonics/vibrations to the ground,and those old infrastructures in them.

            “Something Evansville might look into,Might help,slow down the repair costing?”

    • Phyllip,

      I own a home built in 1946, it was built with galvanized steel water pipes, the original water piping from the meter to the house has over the years failed 3 times and in the late 80’s was replaced with copper pipe, over the years they rot and clog causing failures or necessary replacement and cause low water volume, every item has a life cycle, take a kitchen faucet, toilet flush valves, sink drains, all of these item have clean drinking water running through them yet fail from age/usage.

      City water main are no different and were never built with the added benefit of galvanization to slow down decay, city water mains when originally installed where nothing more than cast iron pipes.

      When it comes to infrastructure improvement or replacement it is a cost to repair vs the cost to replace, since our water pipes are just as old as the sewers and the streets have to be opened up to repair the CSO problem it just makes logical sense to replace the water mains at the exact same time the street is opened to replace the sewers, combining that with street repair and sidewalk replacement seems like a no brain’er to me.

      Do we have the money to do this…nope and because our elected officials have made poor choices such as a new arena, smart water meters or even the hotel our bonding ability isn’t going to be available for the much needed QoL/infrastructure improvements because we spent our credit on shiny stuff. It’s one of the reasons a lot of us here are against spending on shiny stuff, if your roof is leaking you don’t replace the damaged ceiling and repaint it before the roof is repaired and the leak stopped….do you see a parallel in my analogy?

      The CSO problem will cost the city $1b or more and it’s inevitable they will be replacing water mains in the process because of collateral damage that will happen.


      • Blanger,

        Do you think that the water lines and sewer lines run together? Most often they are nowhere near each other. Most sewers run to the rear easement and the water lines go to the front easement. I know this from my past experience in underground utility construction. If you have ever noticed, when a house has a cleanout for its sewage it’s on the rear of the house. The water meters are always in the front of the house.

        • In my neighborhood in the 2nd ward they do run together in the street, my house in particular receives both services from the rear of the house from a side street because there are no alleys in our area, it’s also one of the areas with the CSO problem.


        • Same here. Sewer and water lines come in from the street…not my alleyway or the easement.


          • Brent: From the sites there,we have working models on I’d say you have both.
            The older more CSO related points seem to trend more to the alleyways for combined sewers,and street accesses for water.
            And, the sanitary sewers vent into the lowest points when the stormwater affects the combined system and backs stormwater water runoff into to the lowest point. Low elevations and basements,foundations and such.
            Just points to the expense,and the actual overall complexity the ESWU must comply with now. Real big job,especially downtowns oldest sections.
            The new additionals downtown of the last 40 years probably didn’t help that. Some commercial buildings were never originally conceptualized to have lofts/condos/ or multiple offices, and other individual services on the main service takeoffs.
            Wasn’t built for what its used for now,improved maybe,but originally designed,nope.
            You can’t really blame the present crew,when the issue was spotlighted they didn’t control it,and the EPA wasn’t lookin
            ’em in the eye tugging on their neckties,as well.

          • VR,

            I don’t mean this as an insult to anyone, but most people assume that their sewer runs to the street, but in most houses that I’ve seen they don’t. I’m not saying that there are not houses with sewers that are in the front, but off the top of my head I can not remember coming across one.

    • Phyllip,

      Your quote ” To replace pipes for no reason other than their age is a waste of taxpayers money” has just cut the legs off of your comrades at City Hall.

      Go to your buddy the Mayor this afternoon and tell him “To replace water meters for no reason other than their age is a waste of taxpayers money”.

      • This is an improvement on technology that is projected to save money. It’s not tearing up pipes that are in good working order for fear of impending failure. I am often amazed at the lengths that people will go to for their “gotcha” comparisons.

        • Prove your premise . . . that this is ‘an improvement on technology that is projected to save money’.

          Be sure to show your work.

    • Per Mr. Mounts, the utility has approximately 1300 miles of cast iron water lines, like many peoples’ arteries, are in need of balloon surgery. The fix is estimated at 200 million.

  2. Two serious questions: Are we sure that Johnson Controls still has the water meter contract, and are we sure we would want all the water lines replaced considering the cost of such an extensive retrofit would be added to our already exorbitant water and sewer rates?

      • Yes I see that response, but it seems from the IIT that you are advocating wholesale replacement of old water lines. Where in the IIT do you say to replace only those water lines determined to be in need of replacement? How do you propose the utility to determine which water lines are truly in need of replacement? Are you now saying they replace all those that are of a certain age?

    • I know that the editor is intelligent enough to know that wholesale replacement because of years of use is not economically viable, but there are a lot of readers that will jump on the bandwagon and argue for it because they are not considering the long-term ramifications. I’m an advocate for responsible journalism and sometimes things are posted in IIT that contributes to the misguided thoughts of some people.

    • Still waiting to hear whether Johnson Controls in under contract to replace the meters.

  3. I was hoping that Pete and I could co-sponsor the first Woods and Woods Good Public Policy Forum at the Cork and Cleaver.

  4. See my humorous spin on WFIE’s website in which I manage to combine this Johnson Controls union gift with the recent spate of pipe failures; and call the meters the first of a “decades long effort to improve our infrastructure”. By so doing, I am taking the heat off any actual measurement or accountability by Johnson Controls re: ‘guaranteed savings’.

    Thank you for your vote.

  5. Here’s one that will get people’s mouths foaming…Editor the creation of “Swaim’s Syndrome” falls directly on your shoulders. You have chosen to create a site where your reputation has become that of a carpet bomber. I know that you have a handful of die-hard followers and they will respond quickly to berate me for posting this, but with the exception of those that feed you “inside” information via your mole network and those that advertise on your site, everyone else is subject to a direct assault or collateral damage. Someone yesterday called you a watchdog. The problem is that sometimes that watchdog bites the wrong person and gets put down. Now I’m not suggesting that the CCO goes away, but for the success & growth of your site you need to curb the negativity and put some stories of wins for the community on here. That’s just my opinion. I have enjoyed our brief conversations via email and it seems like you have a different persona for this site. Everything in life has good & bad points including every politician and public official.

    • I have no intentions of going light on any public official when I think they are not upholding their public servant status.

      • I’m not saying to not hold them accountablt, but even that one politician with whom you have the most contempt will do some things that you agree with. I am in no way a fan of Barack Obama and I have been vocal about my opposition to a lot of his proposals, but every now & then he does something that I agree with. The opposite can be said about politicians that I like, they will do things that I don’t agree with.

    • We already have a community worth of “yes men” that always promote anything even remotely positive in their media or put a positive spin on the negative, what we needed was someone to call them out, we got that with the CCO, it would seem that “success & growth” is working just fine for them with the model they are using, they have done more good in their short existence than the C&P has in it’s entire life.

      Do they get it wrong sometimes…yes, but more often than not they are correct in their assumptions and have made the elected officials more accountable for their actions, words, and deeds. I’d suggest if your looking for a site to promote a positive spin on everything political then the C&P is probably more suited to your tastes, they like to squelch negativity in their stories and posters.

      Phyllip your not advocating for truth, your advocating for not holding people accountable for their actions by giving them a pass because it is a negative reflection on them, as Beretta use to say “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”


      • So are you saying that CCO and its followers are a group of “No” men? I love how people call me a “Yes” man and say that they are the opposite of me because it confirms my beliefs that they are just obstructionists that will always say no. The Citizens Against Virtually Everything (CAVEs) are in full effect in the comment section of CCO.

        • You left off the word for the s.

          CAVES-Citizens Against Virtually Everything that is Stupid.

          • Herman, I would be honored to be charter member of CAVES. It seems we will be very busy.

        • I did not say that at all, I said we already have people who are in the media business that go out of their way to put a positive spin on everything political…..

          I can’t speak for anyone but myself, and I do not resort to name calling or other childish behavior, I just know there are many things that are not right about our city and every administration seems to have it’s own agenda that takes us further down the path we are on, the CCO is doing the taxpayers a huge favor by being a advocate of good public policy, part of that is holding people who we elect accountable for their actions.

          Is the CCO full of “no” men and women?, not at all do they care about their city? it would seem so since they take the time to post their opinions, are there the random people who like to stir the pot?, absolutely! Phyllip it is called diversity, we are all different but may share a common viewpoint that gets shared on sites like the CCO.

          Negativity is part of human nature, and like any trait it has it’s place, but also like most things moderation is what is needed on a personal level or you become consumed in it.

          Good healthy discussion always includes both points of view, it just so happens that the C&P expresses one side and the CCO the other on most topics, the related posts that follow are a direct result of the people posting their opinions not any influence the C&P or CCO may have.


          • Good healthy discussion includes many viewpoints, but it remains civil. Healthy discussions do not include name caliing like you often see in the comments on this page. The readers will often call people stupid, idiots, crooked, frauds, fools, etc. There is no room for name-calling in discussions to move the community forward. One move that would go a long way for the credibility of this site would be if they removed any post that includes name-calling or insults of a personal nature.

          • I agree to a point, if your a politician then your put yourself in a position where you need thicker skin than your average citizen, your going to be called names and lets face the facts some of it is true. But as far as posters, yea your right no need even in heated discussions to resort to calling people names just because you don’t share their point of view.

            But alas young people are so passionate that they kinda’ loose sight of the prize, my best advice is try to lead by example, and pick your battles, I’m just thankful that there are people like you, Brad and Jordan who are willing to make the sacrifices to try to make a difference, when it’s so much easier to bury your head in the sand, it’s really a thankless job being a advocate for something you believe in and it has about as many pitfalls or potholes as Evansville streets.

            Keep the faith…



    • I do not berate you. But the CCO exists because the C&P refuses to investigate and report the political shenanigans that go on in Evansville. Ever since the Courier lost Alan Julian as the political reporter and Paul McAuliff as the Senior Editor, we lost a significant platform of dialog and discussion and the problems of our town. What you are seeing here today in the CCO is only the result of the C&P being limp wristed on many important subjects of discussion. The C&P has become the mouthpiece of whomever they align themselves with the most.

      Have you seen all of the negative comments about the MacLeod cartoons in the Courier? Have you ever seen his cartoons support anything but the Democrats? It’s a biased paper and the CCO is trying to level the playing field.


      • Spot on comment. The new Courier and Press editors and Prof. MacLeod drank the Obama Kool-Aid. It’s as if they are the local printer for the White House spokesperson and Media Matters.

  6. What is the unit cost of these new water meters, and did this contract with Johnson Controls require a competitive bidding process for new meters, or was the meter manufacturer locked in the contract from the get go?


    • Great question.

      As a believer in government transparency I would like to know what the average expected unit cost of the installation of these meters are, broken down by Labor and Parts.

      The contract is not just for meters it has other supposedly wonderful stuff in it too.

      I can’t get a straight answer from the powers that be at City Hall in regards to either the breakdown of the unit costs or the various parts of the overall contract.

      Maybe editor and the mole nation can help.

      • Mr. Benton,

        I ran these numbers. The large meters (businesses) really did need to be replaced. There are only a few hundred of these, and they make up 90 % of the so-called guaranteed revenue. Replacing the residential meters is a BIG money loser. The direct cost of the meter itself exceeds the average savings per residential meter (even before considering installation cost).

        So in other words, if we just replaced the large meters for business, we’d have more money than we can count. However, that only keeps those starving Teamsters happy for a couple of months. Have to add on 46,000 unneeded meter replacements (residential), greatly lower our NET savings (or swing to a loss), but hooray, we have 2 Years of work for Teamsters, lots of union votes and lots of campaign contributions. Everyone’s happy, right ????

        • Thanks for the response and the info.

          I have no reason to doubt your cost/benefit analysis and my suspicions are along the same lines as yours, that the residential meters are a waste.

          However, until we have good numbers on the breakdown of the unit cost, labor and parts we’re just making empty claims. Getting our hands on a good projection/estimate of the unit labor costs could put a cleansing spotlight on this sweetheart deal. Yes it won’t stop the deal from going forward but we could put some real heat on the those that told us all what a wonderful contract this was for the residents of Evansville.

          • Mr. Benton,

            The information is in the public realm already, but it’s buried in 1,000 pages of horseshit.

            Go out to IURC website, and find the first Cause Number. In there, JCI had to disclose the ‘guaranteed savings’ by meter size. Take the residential ones (.625″, or 5/8″ as a fraction).
            There’s your revenue (in total,average annual I believe).

            Then take the cost of the 46,xxx residential meters which will be replaced. There’s your cost (marked up meter only).

            Compare the two, both in total and per household.

          • dveatch,

            Found this on a barstool at Main Gate:

            I have long suspected that the Residential Meters were a money-losing portion of this project (I dubbed it ‘a boat anchor’). I believe the attached one-page analysis proves that.

            The analysis shows that the max amount the City should be willing to pay to change out a residential meter is $ 49.56 per meter. On its face, that seems absurdly low (as ‘change out’ means a basic meter; a transmitter; and installation).

            As a frame of reference, a Change Order on this project which credited out 16,596 meters less than 5 years old valued the basic meter alone at $ 61.22 per meter.

      • Brains,watch out, Man you’ll get added to the “assignment list”. You do put up some good soundboard stuff on the issues,thats welcome stuff for us.

        However sometimes when one is seeking sources,incoming information is real good. Categorically retorting,can be very specific that way when observed from afar.

        Cuts through the cloud layers so to speak,so transparency becomes a non issue.

        Sometimes that areas “mole nation” demonstrates the unique skill to clear that fog,as well.
        Thats an agreeable enough reason to partake in this blog as we receive data from our models there.
        And BTW,those are returning some good stuff, We’re finding some real useful and approachable balance sustainabilities* throughout the applications.

        Ps. Looks that “ole changed climate” is fixin to rock you “fellers”.”again.”


    1) If City Council voted 9-0 for the project, why were Beaver & Weaver the only two who attended the union kickoff?; and

    2) The City Council supposedly started a new paradigm with the Hotel project whereby there would be a ‘city representative’ (consultant)on all public works projects who advised them on costs, progress, etc. on a REGULAR BASIS. Who is the consultant for the Johnson Controls meters project , or has that praiseworthy objective already been shelved as more EMPTY RHETORIC ?

  8. “IS IT TRUE we received many inquiries over the last several months from our readers concerning the accurate accounting of all City of Evansville legal work? …we have also been told by several county and city officials alike that we may be surprised to find out the real costs to out source all city legal work?” (CCO 2-19-14)

    * * * * * * * * * *

    Please make it your life’s work to publish the real cost to the taxpayers for legal work by all of the political subdivisions in Vanderburgh county, starting with the EVSC and the City of Evansville.


  9. The Mayor said that he don’t read the CCO..I bet he has a shortcut icon on his computer to get to the web site first thing in the morning..keep up the good work CCO..

  10. I’m a strong Republican and was planning to vote for Mr. Swain. Since he decided not go on the Woods and Woods and good public policy show he can kiss my vote good bye.

    • Marty,

      I’m a strong Republican also and I’ll still vote for Swaim because I’d rather have a Republican that exercises his freedoms and chooses not to go to an event than a Democrat who does things just to gets votes and forgets about the people once they get the opportunity to push their liberal agenda.

      P.S. It’s Swaim with an “m”.

      • Please do not rush to vote for Swaim. It is one thing to vote Republican versus Democrat, but another to vote for the BEST candidate. John Montrastelle is the best candidate for that office. Caught your attention yet?

        • Do not take my remarks as a swipe at John Montrastelle. I have known him for years and he has always been a nice and decent man. In all honesty, I was not considering the primary opposition when I made my remark. I was considering the R vs. D race. I am not endorsing or promoting either of those candidates in the primary. I respect both of them enough to not make my choice public.

          • Does county councilman Davis vote for $15.5 million dollar ball fields next to Goebel soccer complex including purchasing new nonexisting parks dept land?

    • If I can go on a bit of a tangent, your remark about being a strong Republican and not voting for Swaim because of a minor problem is what is wrong with our party on a national level. This all or nothing mindset is the reason why we went to bed scratching our heads on November 6, 2012. If we’re waiting to vote for a candidate that we agree with 100% of the time, we’ll keep seeing Democrats win races that they shouldn’t have. We had the Ron Paul Republicans, the TEA party and the libertarian Republicans abstain from voting for Romney and that helped Obama. Democrat special-interest groups are more forgiving and normally judge their candidates by the one things that they hold sacred, whether that be Pro-Choice, Pro-LGBT or whatever. Republicans have groups that have long lists of qualifications for their candidates to be ballot-worthy and by the time we’re done with the primaries we end up with hamburger that’s been through the party grinder and the Dems have filet mingnon. Was Lugar far right? No, but he was a heck of a lot farther right than Donnelly. Furthermore, we need the majorities in the legislative houses for our bills to come to the floor. If Republicans do not become more united soon, we won’t be able to recognize our country.

    • Then you would rather have the president of Evansville Convention and Visitors Bureau, picking your pocket for every dime he can send to his organization?????

  11. What do you you guys expect from Mr. Swaim because he was appointed at a Wayne Parke stacked political caucus to fill a vacant seat on the County Council. The last time he ran for public office he got beat like a drum. Looks like the second time around the results won’t be any different. Alice L, I do like your comment about “no show Swaim”.

  12. Wonder what Mr. Swaim is trying to hide from the voters by deciding not to attend the Woods and Woods “Good Public Policy” show?

    • Maybe, he’s a reptilian and he can’t hold his human form long enough to sit through the forum. I’m sure he’s hiding something. He could not have just simply changed his mind.

    • Spot on. The unions seem to have a stranglehold on this city. Winnecke will be stabbed in the back by the unions during the next election. When McDaniels was trying to borrowing money from foreign investor for the toll road the unions were his primary supporters. When it was a done deal they stabbed him in the back. This whole meter deal is pure corruption and political payback to the unions. This is blatant use of tax money to buy votes.

  13. Is Monastrelle that’s running against Swaim the same guy at the ECVB? The same guy who called the ball fields project a once in a lifetime opportunity?

    Didn’t the C&P just report yesterday that the budget for this boondoggle is now up to $15.5 million for a location that very few outside of the chosen ones want? Did they also report that they are now aiming to eventually attract 180,000 to 200,000 people a year? Didn’t David Dunn get laughed off stage when he was claiming 100,000 when Owensboro is only pulling in 40,000?

    How many open public sessions were held for this? How many opportunities were given to discuss a better location? How can this be slipping past the CCO?

    • John Monastrelle, Presdient EVCB. Thats all we need, a EVCB president on the County Council, financial are of county government!!!!

  14. You won’t issue bonds for the waterworks unless you can count the money..especially in a city that can’t issue an audit or keep its books in order because they can’t figure out how to enter debits and credits in a modern muni accounting system designed to help create a CAFR, which is the gold standard of municipal financial reports.

    You issue what is going to $1 billion in bonds and people are going to want to know everything is being collected, which you can not say is happening now, or has been happening, when you deposit your waterworks receipts in the general fund which means no audit trail. That is what was happening before it was decided to have a separate account for the water dept.

    Without the modern meter to tie into a modern accounting system designed to keep schenigans to a minimum, good luck finding a sucker to buy bonds at a rate that is not junk. The costs of meters is simply additional interest that must be paid to borrow.

  15. The water dept has not put a cast iron main in for forty years we used ductile in the seventys been using PVC since the eightys. I know because I put it in the ground.

  16. I’m no engineer but as long as I can remember we’ve had water mail breaks in extreme cold conditions.
    Has anyone thought of lowering our frost line so new construction will be a foot deeper & possibly help future generations?

    Since County Councilman Pete Swaim refused to participate he lost his chance at “equal time”. His loss.

  17. I’m thinking that this is true.

    Was there not a mention of the “extreme cold” drawn river water into the water distribution system in which the earth around the piping is actually warmer. Remember this type of cold, metals, concrete, ect shrink just as they expand in the heat of the summer!

    Something to think about!


  18. Looks like County Councilmen Pete Swaim made the fatal political mistake by running from his primary opponent early in the game. His decision not going on the Woods and Woods “Good Public Policy” forum show is a major political mistake on Pete’s behalf. I think Pete’s political advisors forgot he was appointed to his current political position in a GOP caucus and was not elected by the voters of Vanderburgh County in a general election.

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