IS IT TRUE February 10, 2014

1. You named first generation rich people that actually worked for the money. Those who inherit it rarely give to charity on that kind of scale.

   • And well over half of the billionaires in America are first generation self made. I am not sure of your claim that inheritance wealth is not generous. I will remind you that right here in Evansville the Schroeders and Kochs make very large gifts to charities and do so quietly. Both of those families are now at least second generation. As for the Waltons of WalMart fame and the Kennedys, I don’t know but I suspect you are wrong about them too.

     http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyle/2013/09/18/how-self-made-forbes-400-billionaires-earned-their-money/

     • The Waltons are NOT known for their generosity. They are recipients of billions in corporate welfare because they are too cheap to pay their employees a living wage. Remember the recent “food drive” for employees?

       • John Boy has always been very generous to me, as has his sister Mary Ellen.

       • Actually the heirs of the self made Sam Walton through the Walton Family Foundation are much more charitable than old Sam was. Sam Walton was famous for saying “he is not fond of giving an undeserving person a free ride at the expense of his shareholders or his customers.”

         The Walton Family Foundation is one of the largest in the country and makes targeted investments in education reform and environmental issues. Go check out the link. I think you may moderate your criticisms when you see what these people who could just go to the beach and sip mai tais are doing with their time and money.

         http://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/

         • It doesn’t take a lot to put up a nice front. Their foundation may be great, but I have difficulty believing that they have an interest in the environment, outside of the one surrounding them. I knew Sam wasn’t much of a philanthropist.
           The way the company strangled so many “Mom and Pop” operations was not a good thing for this country, nor are the shoddy goods they sell. You’re right about it being the Board of Director that is mainly responsible, but the family could certainly get their attention if they cared to.

       • Also, do not confuse “the Waltons” with the public company WalMart that has literally millions of shareholders when 401k’s and institutional investors are counted. What you say about low pay applies to the company and not the family who are all minority shareholders at this point in time. This sounds like an issue for the board of directors to me. Buy some shares and start a crusade. It would not be the first time that a small shareholder made a big difference.

         • No thanks. I stick to “socially responsible” companies. My problems with Walmart go far, far beyond the lousy pay.

           • We agree on the effect that WalMart has had on small towns and their family businesses. Yet, Americans continue to be drawn to the low prices like moths to a light bulb. I do not shop at WalMart or eat fast food. My choice is both personal and ideological. If 310 Million Americans followed that lead WalMart and the fast food joints would change or disappear. The most powerful votes any of us make is with the choices we make regarding our personal spending habits.

         • Amen Joe. Speak with your wallet. This is true of charities as well. There are many charities in Evansville that are in real need. Every individual can make a difference with a gift no matter how small or a few hours of personal time.

           Don’t support what you do not believe in and absolutely support your passions and your interests. I would also add living beings of all species before things.

         • Good show! I don’t shop at Walmart and I don’t eat fast food, either. I can’t get over the shoddy goods Walmart foists off on people.

   • Lemons for breakfast again this morning huh, Ghost?

   • Here is a good read with regard to earned vs. inherited wealth. It is quite long. Did you know that 93% of the millionaires in America earned that status? Did you know that only 20% of the population inherit anything at all and most of that is rather small amounts. Self-made people you will find are indeed more generous than people who are exclusively the beneficiaries of an inheritance. It is not by much though. The reason for that is that a self made person of wealth is not afraid of losing it because they have the confidence to succeed again.

     Letting ourselves get into “hold on to what we got” mode is not good for anyone whether rich or poor.

     http://books.google.com/books?id=ligvL-cLFIEC&pg=PA554&lpg=PA554&dq=does+inherited+wealth+give+to+charity&source=bl&ots=A3nO1XjzYt&sig=eW8cdtCM6gweUUrNhVrJs5o0mRw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1vD4UsS8IoiGoQTlhYCwDA&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=does%20inherited%20wealth%20give%20to%20charity&f=false

     • This all makes good sense. That’s why the “1%” is only “1%”.

       • That is a cute play on words. The 1% will always by definition be the 1%. Right now that is about 3.1 Million people. The USA now has 13.2 Million millionaires so that would be more like 4%. More importantly of the 1.8 million new millionaires in 2013, 1.7 million of them were “made in America”. That is over 90%. It seems as though no matter who has political power that the US leads the world in the creation of wealth.

         My source for the data is CNBC.

         http://www.cnbc.com/id/101099732

         • Give it up editor. There are those so envious and jealous you can never convince them with reality, they prefer pony land.

     • So is working 12 hour days bilking your clients
       “earning it”? A La Larry Ellison

       So is rolling the dice with public money and when the bets come in declaring yourself a great capitalist but when they don’t you run to the government hat in hand for a bailout, “earning it”?

       So is buying up companies with near 95% debt, then stripping out the assets and selling them off and then walking away from the debt in bankruptcy cournt a ‘la Bain Capital and Mitt Romney “earning it”?

       So is hiding bilions of dollars in illegal overseas bank accounts “earning it”

       So is hiding behind corporate immunity and bankruptcy court when CEO”s and managment committ gross negligence, fraud and public endangerment
       “earning it”?

       So is committing pricing fixing and collusion “earning it”?

       So is getting public financing and taxpayer bailouts for your modern day colisiums so you can watch grown men run up and down a court/field? “Earning it”?

       So is calling yourself a “job creator’ and lobbying congress for massive tax cuts for yourself “earning it”? Especially when not even 1 nickel of that tax cut is reinvested back in property, plant, equipment, employee training etc in any company you own? but the whole tax cut goes straight to your own pocket????

       Same for corporat tax cuts.. is that “earning it”

       Is going back to the DOD again and again and again for fancy thingamajigs attached to whatcamacallits
       “earning it”

       Is calling yourself a private defense contractor and then getting three or four times the rate of what a person in the military is getting for the exact same thing “earning it”?

       Are no bid contracts “earning it”?

       I could go on and on and on and on.

       • 10 good billionaires do not make the whole lot good and ten thieves do not make every one a thief.

       • On the surface all your points and blame can be placed on our wonderful politicians and the laws they created.

         Lets take an example. Your going to blame GM for their bailout when Obama circumvented the bankruptcy laws? How is that GMs fault? It isn’t.

         Name one large corporation illegally hiding billions overseas. Companies do get audited. Are some missed, probably but on the whole you would have to prove such illegal activity is as rampant as you want us to believe.

         If a company is in or near bankruptcy how do you propose they survive? If they are in bankruptcy (I’ll assume your familiar with their mechanics) that’s exactly what happens and should. That is if no other work around can be found. Frankly a company (in your words) is 95% in debt they in all probability should be in bankruptcy.

         Corporate tax cuts? No who do you suppose created those laws?

         You’ll have to provide a reference for Larry. I think I know your reference but do tell.

         • Companies like Apple that keep some of their profits offshore do so in full compliance with the laws that the genius’ in Washington pass. They don’t even attempt to hide it and make full disclosure in their SEC docs. GM, GE, and hundreds of others are the same way. Fully compliant with the laws. That will never satisfy the entitlement class. They won’t be satisfied until America looks like East Berlin did before the wall came down. We have equality then. None of us will be able to afford the basics of life but we will have a paper tiger healthcare plan with no doctors or medicine. These people are disgusting. They probably should be on trial for treason.

       • Brains Benton: You sound like a far left liberal Democrat who is jealous of those people who worked hard and made it.

         On the other hand, with your attitude,I would be surprised the Democrats would claim you.

   • Is it true that Facebook founder gave 18 million shares worth that $900+ million dollars. He also had to sell $2.3 billion dollars worth of stock for tax purposes past December.

     Is it true his gift has ties with tax purposes?
     His “gift” is 5% of his total worth of $21.9 billion.

     Is it true if I would donate 5% of my farm ground that I paid $4,000 15 years ago, and now goes for $13,000, I could be consider as great a philanthropist as Mark Zuckerberg based off of percentage of worth and not total dollars?

     • All that you say is true. Without the generosity of Mr. Zuckerberg that charity would be $970 Million poorer. Are you seriously diminishing a $970 Million gift. Donate your land if you like an you can enjoy a deduction at current market value.

       • Not diminishing the “5% worth” gift, just putting a face on it. My 5% “worth” gift cost is on par as the billionaire. No need putting these people/group on pedestals when there are many more individuals/groups that may give a higher percent of their worth.

         • Correction:

           Zuckerberg worth is 27-29 billion and not 21.9 that I mention earlier.

           Change 5% to 3.5% on above posts.

           2nd place was the late George Mitchell, fracking pioneer gave $750 million of his 2 billion worth.

           3rd was Phil Knight, Nike co-founder gave $500 million of his $14.4 billion. (can not fathom the cost of the shoes verses the source they come from)

         • Point well made. Perspective is everything for each individual. It has been my experience that people of average or below average means will give higher percentages of their worth than those with greater wealth I think because they live more in the trenches and live and therefore more easily identify the need. This is not to diminish the billion dollar gifts but these are few and far between.

         • I agree with you, but here is the deal. No one is casting folks like you and I as evil demons for what we earn. Highly successful entrepreneurs are mostly a generous lot that realize they were in the right place at the right time when they took their risk. Every engineer with a great idea that created a big commercial success could have easily been a cog in someone else’s wheel and they know it. It is taking the risk that created the reward. Zuckerberg could have earned a fine salary of perhaps $200,000 as a coder at someone else’s company. The same goes for Gates. What set them apart was actually doing something as an entrepreneur that changed the way the world works. Such efforts pay off magnificently, even in communist and 3rd world countries.

       • You may find this site helpful while exploring this issue:

         http://philanthropy.com/article/Interactive-How-America-Gives/133709/#{%22panelsStates%22:[0,0,0,0],%22panelShowing%22:1,%22searchString%22:%22%22,%22searchChoiceIndex%22:0,%22autoSuggestObject%22:{},%22clickResponse%22:null,%22clickEvent%22:null,%22mapLatLng%22:null,%22mapZoomLevel%22:%22nation%22,%22initialTextTitle%22:%22%22,%22initialParagraph%22:%22%22,%22contibutionCatagories%22:%220%22,%22incomeBrackets%22:%220%22,%22cObj%22:{},%22obj_data%22:null,%22conveyor%22:0,%22noSplash%22:0}

         • If you click on “total contributions” you can then select “giving by income level”

           __

         • INDIANA

           Compare:

           $50,000 – $99,999
           5.2%

           $100,000 – $199,999
           4.4%

           $200,000 and up
           4.6%

           All Income levels
           4.5%

           * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

           This data would seem to bear out Martha Crosley’s statement that the lower income group gives more.

           • Great tool Press. Looks like the wealthy of Evansville are bucking the state trend and coughing up some good charity.

             Compare
             $50,000 – $99,999 5.2%
             $100,000 – $199,999 4.9%
             $200,000 and up 5.2%

         • BTW, while Indiana at #24 is in the middle of the pack of States when it comes to charitable giving, you should consider that Indiana ranks at #39 (2012 ranking) for “Individual Income”.

           That shows Hoosiers to be a very generous lot!

           ___

         • I find the people of Evansville for the most part to be very compassionate warm people. This is honestly one of the reasons we retired here. I have been other places where this caring is not true.

           And Joe I appreciate what you state about entrepreneurs and their assumption of risk. That risk occurs at many levels from a small enterprise to a monster like facebook. I grant equal respect to all levels and realize the stresses and rewards therein.

           • Thank you Martha. Remember, 10 years ago Facebook was in a dorm room at Harvard. In its 10th year the founder was capable and willing to make a charitable donation of nearly a billion dollars. May the words “only in America” never become obsolete for entrepreneurial success.

2. When will IU announce their decision?

   • April, after their meeting. For some reason I think it is around the 20th of the month.
     That reminds me, isn’t HCW about “down to the wire” on its private financing deadline?

     • I believe the date for completion of financing for HCW is March 31, 2014. 49 days till loan approval or egg on the faces of city government once again for failing to vet.

   • Just wondering how this project became “local funded” helped, when the parent school and three of the four feeder schools are also on a state level. Does passing the costs to local level (similar to the business tax elimination) make the state balance appear better for those state legislators/governor?

     • Shoot,from afar, We would like to own the site for the blend “we can see” for the IU medical center. RFP. Education,vastly improved infrastructure,logistical commerce,with forward environmentally sustainable balances.*

       Tripled revenues* for an also balanced, sustainable state, and community combined revenue base, with increasing ROI numbers.

       Amazing to us,no one else sees it,the things actually in vanderburgh county,as well.
       Its certainly not in old downtown evansville’s crumbled infrastructure,and has,no,standing environmental issues ,however,would improve the surrounding signatures,and,actually sustain the others,and revitalize the old downtown beyond all the abstract expectations,as currently represented.

       I guess one could call it the “fifth element*” so to speak.

       Sorry no RFP,don’t think we could offer it in the foreseeable future,probably save the concept for a more balanced well funded thus,sustainable region of the planet.

       Less your local metros political intrigue,”messes”.

       I suppose once the choice is made between the present four locations,showing the “fifth element” to the CCO crew would ok by us.
       Kinda shows who shot the arrows at the albatross,who hit’em,and why the navigator,and crew have to wear the stinky feathers.

       “nomen ipsum dolor sit amet.”

       “the name,is the answer. “

3. I am afraid, Editor, that you are dealing here with some slacker liberals who are very much locked into “gimme-gimme-someone-else’s-stuff” mode: it’s the only thing they know. Normal Americans take pride in accomplishing things with their own efforts; these liberals only take pride in avoiding work and seizing other people’s money. They would rather sit around a stale crust of bread in a fully-stocked kitchen and argue about whether someone should get 1% more of the slice than bake some more loaves of bread.

4. The crazy “fifth Olympic ring” stories are traceable to the same nutty websites that perpetuate all kinds of conspiracy theories. It’s sad that anybody pays any attention to them.

   • You mean the Onion isn’t real news? Gasp!

     • There’s a big difference in satire and crazy lies.

5. Is it true, if I owned 100% of the wealth in the world, I would be the only one who could afford to give anything? Would you praise me for being the biggest giver?

   You attempt to make these 442 sound heroic. How about adding $1.00 per hour to the wages of the folks working the machines down at Berry Plastics? That would do some real good.

   These people are not heros, they plunder the working class, build fortunes and “donate” paltry sums over seas. All on the backs of the “little people.”

   Normally I like your “is it True” stuff, but your attempts to make these people sound like heros has disgusted me this morning.

   • Talk to some people who work at Microsoft and Facebook and you will find that they do not share your contempt for their founder’s wealth.

     • Editor: I would challenge you to read this story before promoting Microsoft as a great place to work. I repeat “ON THE BACKS OF THE LITTLE PEOPLE.”

       Respectfully….educate yourself.

       http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/03/the-terrible-management-technique-that-cost-microsoft-its-creativity/

       . . . a management system known as “stack ranking”—a program that forces every unit to declare a certain percentage of employees as top performers, good performers, average, and poor—effectively crippled Microsoft’s ability to innovate. “Every current and former Microsoft employee I interviewed—every one—cited stack ranking as the most destructive process inside of Microsoft, something that drove out untold numbers of employees,” Eichenwald writes. “If you were on a team of 10 people, you walked in the first day knowing that, no matter how good everyone was, 2 people were going to get a great review, 7 were going to get mediocre reviews, and 1 was going to get a terrible review,” says a former software developer. “It leads to employees focusing on competing with each other rather than competing with other companies.”

       • Well you should really do some research and not pontificate with outdated “news”. Microsoft has been in the process of backing away from that method of employee evaluations;

         http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-13/microsoft-kills-its-hated-stack-rankings-dot-does-anyone-do-employee-reviews-right

       • One other point and you will see why you derailed yourself. Editor is talking about non contempt towards Bill Gates wealth. And you speak of management style. Your apple does not equal the Editors orange.

         • Woah…you really got me there.

           You: “Yes they are changing the management style.”
           Me: “This is true..no doubt.”
           Editor: “Talk to some people who work at Microsoft and Facebook and you will find that they do not share your contempt for their founder’s wealth.”

           Summary –

           Editor says “Microsoft employees love making Bill Gates rich.”

           I paraphrase “Forbes Story says EVERY Microsoft employee THEY TALKED TO hates it there because of the management system.” (Forbes…not a bad source there hmmm?)

           You say “Your argument doesn’t make sense because they just changed management styles last month.”

           Question – Yes they changed management styles last month. Does that mean a well documented past did not happen? That Microsoft employees didn’t make Bill Gates rich while he made them miserable the past decade?

           The apples/oranges comments. Yes…you have parsed your words with the skill of a Clinton or Obama. Parse your words as you may, the overall message of the editors comments were “Microsoft employees LOVED making Bill Gates rich.” That message stands no matter how you try to parse it.

           Split tongue word parsing double speak means nothing to people who can see past it. I am one of the lucky who can.

           • Loved making Bill Gates rich??? Where did you get that??? They do not begrudge the fact that Gates, Allen, Balmer, and others got really rich is what I said. The others include many thousands of Microsoft employees who got rich on stock options too. Bill may have made billions but Microsoft created tens of thousands of millionaires who would have never done that on their own. Don’t put words in my mouth.

       • How did a statement of the generosity of citizen Bill Gates turn into a hate fest for people of wealth and the companies they formed?

         • Citing facts is not hate. I cited a Forbes story about the almost evil environment at Microsoft the past decade or so.

           I simply counteracted your cheerleading with facts that point otherwise.

           The Forbes story said (paraphrase) EVERY Microsoft employee they talked to said it was a miserable place to work.

           No employee they talked to said “I loved helping make Bill Gates the most wealthy man in the world.”

           No employee said “I would love for my wages to stagnate so Bill Gates can become even more wealthy.”

           Facts are not hate

           • Well Microsoft stock is less than half of what it was in the year 2000 so Bill has not been getting richer for the last 14 years. Back in the day when I was in that world Microsoft was creating millionaires and was considered to be a great place to work and prosper. They still seem to pay very well. Here is a link to their salary structure.

             http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Microsoft-Redmond-Salaries-EI_IE1651.0,9_IL.10,17_IC1150499.htm

         • Editor, from my quick calculations there looks to be a 54% increase in the number of shares from MSFT’s high selling price in December 27, 1999 to now. Considering the number of splits in the last 13 years, Bill Gates is still making money on the shares that he holds.

           • Here is a link to the split adjusted price of Microsoft stock. It peaked in March of 2000 and still languishes at a level that is roughly half of the peak. Gates stock is worth less today than it was 14 years ago. Examine the chart which has been adjusted for all splits and you will agree with my conclusions. He is doing pretty well compared to the 2009 bottom but in the long run Mr. Gates is poorer than he was in 2000.

             http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=MSFT&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=

     • You did say “SOME” yes… maybe the 10 people at the top who are worth a billion each. I’m sure they are very happy.

6. thanks CCO you have shown the light on liberal failure and envy for all to see…………

   • The name calling only took one post.
     – Not a lib
     – Not a repub
     – Not anything you can peg me to

     My thoughts are my own. I do not parrot the two party dictatorship running this country.

     I suggest you learn to do the same.

   • @ tommy

     Was rather revealing to see how the resident liberal sociopaths feel.

     (Not you Hello children.)

7. Mark Zuckerberg has a net worth of 31 billion. I am more impressed by some one who made $31 thousand giving $1000.

   • Exactly Stonedreamer, that person is not giving “play money”, but is giving up “survival money”!

   • Well I am impressed by both and the charities are glad to accept donations from both.

8. I believe I will continue, as I have my entire life, to give anonymously, from the posts I see here, to do otherwise is to risk being vilified by those, “WHO THINK THEY ARE THE ONES”, anointed/and/or gifted with the Superior Brain to determine if what I give is–enough. Who the Hell do they think they are?

   • Who do they think they are? They think they know how to run your life better than you. They are of course very, very wrong.

   • If I give $10 dollars, or $10 Million it’s none of your business! Get a Life!

     • correction –None of THEIR business!

9. ALL CHARITIES IN THE EVANSVILLE AREA ARE IN NEED OF SUPPORT. FIND ONE OR THREE WHO MATCH YOUR VIEWS AND GIVE ALL YOU CAN. THIS IS A STRESSFUL TIME OF YEAR FOR MANY OF THESE GROUPS. YOUR DONATIONS SUPPORT A LEGACY OF HELP FOR OTHERS.

   • (all capital letters a internet no-no)

     Yes, both charities and individual wage earners are stressed and strained of funds this time of the year.
     Could this be where those job creators would pick up the slack?

     • This is either sarcasm or hypocrisy. The job creators you speak of are those you were denigrating earlier for their charitable gifts. If you are involved in agriculture, then surely you realize the benefit gained in charitable contribution does not manifest itself in “take home money”, but rather, in a relief of taxable income. Therefore, those that contribute generously, whether wealthy or not, are doing so out of a larger sense of community. They are not contributing as a tax avoidance strategy, which, many on this board appear to suspect. My advice to those believe otherwise is to start a business, take risk, and make a payroll. The perspective is totally different.

       • Agriculture not a business? Our Risk and payroll is buying seed, fertilizer, risk of weather, no control of pricing fluctuations, equipment, land cost, ect. Try it sometime!

         No need to be sensitive about me by putting a face on a 3.5% charitable gift at a billionaire’s, and a lower to middle income range person that is all the same.

         “Job creators” seems to be a crutch here to smooth over some ones idea’s on issues. Sort off toss it back it in a different direction.

         • Simple question, do you actually farm enough acreage to require farmhands? That would be payroll. If so, do you pay your hand (s) overtime? I am sure that you are aware that labor laws do not require you to pay time and a half, but for the purposes of our conversation I am curious. Just so you know, I am intimately aware of the vagaries of agriculture. There was significant risk associated with farming until the government subsidized crop insurance. Your inputs are more than covered, especially if you own your ground. You can’t sh! t a sh! tter slim!

         • Winston,

           Please reread how I used the “risk and payroll” phrase. Don’t need payroll on row crops. Barring a major misfortune, if overtime is needed to do whatever you do, should you not have that (inputs) figured in the pricing of what you do?

           The days of owning “all” of what one farms, is a thing of the past. Rented ground not cheap. Bought ground at $10-13,000 a acre is not either.

           I decline to use a derogatory nickname.

     • Sorry the caps bother you Armstrongres. They are for emphasis and I will continue to use them as such. Everyone must pick up the slack. I do not accept passing the buck.

       • No bother, just a courteous reminder, Thought maybe you did not realized caps were on. I use “” “” for my emphasis. Cheers

       • Caps are internet shouting. You were shouting something important not at someone.

         Your point is well worth shouting.

         Generosity is a matter of the heart not the wallet.

10. The only logical choice for the IU Med Center is the Promenade and I think long term will have the greatest impact on Evansville and its tax revenue.

    How much difference will it really make downtown? How many “This time for sure” projects are we going to burn money on?

11. Like I told my accountant. When I run out of poor relations I will give to charities.

12. Editor: You get an “A” for today’s work.

    Having been on the Red Cross Board, I have seen first hand the good generosity of people in Evansville. Thank you all.

13. More undeniable incompetency from Obama:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/10/obama-far-outpaces-predecessors-in-appointing-donors-to-foreign-posts/

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