IS IT TRUE August 15, 2013
IS IT TRUE it was disclosed during yesterday morning’s meeting of the Evansville Convention and Visitors Board that board members received their data packet – consisting of a ambiguous letter from Ed Hafer asking for 2 Mil on MONDAY night?…there was not Hunden Study summary, there was no business plan from HCW (the developer), there were no hiring projections, and there were no assumptions of occupancy or room rates?… board members acknowledged they historically take more time on financial decisions involving much less money?… despite that, the vote what pushed through by the four people who were originally appointed to this board by either Mayor Winnecke or former Mayor Weinzapfel despite demands to simply wait and review more information by the other three members of the board?…these kinds of strong armed “damned the torpedoes full speed ahead†are dominating the 3 week rush to force a vote by the City Council before the financial plan is released, the books are reconciled, and the 2012 audit is completed?…these tactics are an insult to freedom of thought and typify narcissism coming straight from the top as it has been for 10 years?
IS IT TRUE that the same power grabbing in your face tactics were used at last night’s town hall discussion?…Mayor Winnecke ignored the time honored tradition of allowing speakers to speak in the order that they came in and rearranged the speaker order to have people who support giving away $37.5 Million speak first, last, and after the stronger rebuttal speakers so they would not be embarrassed as they were at the City Council meeting Monday night?…even with $37.5 Million at stake only about 30 people have been attending these meetings and 80% of those are the pom-pom carrying cheerleaders for the project?…it is appalling that the people of Evansville have no more interest in local finances that they are choosing to sit home in mass?…they must think that they have no voice and as some locals say “the fix is in†and no matter what logic is presented the Blitzkrieg tactics to ram this through are going to happen anyway?…it seems as though much of Evansville has given up on itself?
IS IT TRUE that the local Libertarian Party is the only party to have taken a stand on the cash giveaway to get a hotel and their position is to oppose doing this?…it has been pointed out by Wayne Parke, the Chairman of the Vanderburgh County Republican Party that the numbers of Libertarians are too small to matter?…when it comes to registered Libertarians Mr. Parke is exactly correct?…the first real question though is how many Democrats are of the blue dog type and think that giving away $37.5 Million is pretty stupid and silently oppose doing so?…the second question is how anyone who claims to be a Republican and believes in free markets could even support having McDonalds serve as the tax collector and giving the money to Burger King?…this decision should not be about party affiliation, it should be about sane public spending policies?
IS IT TRUE we wonder how in a short span of 5 years Evansville has gone from a city that was told by former Mayor Weinzapfel that “if we build an arena a $40 Million 4-Star hotel will be built without public assistance†to a shriveling beggar willing to hand out $37.5 Million in gifts that should be reserved for critical infrastructure to get a 3-Star hotel built?…it is a sad story but a true story and it began with insufficient planning and delusions of grandeur?…we wonder how Kunkel’s construction budget of $30 Million for a 250 room hotel morphed into a $44 Million price tag in one year for what is essentially the same thing?
IS IT TRUE as has been the case with other things like the McCurdy Hotel, the Johnson Controls deal, Roberts Stadium, Mesker Amphitheatre, and Centennial Park, Mayor Winnecke has come face to face with the reality of the haphazard way that Evansville has been governed?…in many ways his role has been the role of a financial planner who showed up the day after a frat party when the last keg had been drained and the coffers were nearly bare?…Evansville is at a crossroads and the choices are to dust ourselves off and invest in things that are necessary to remain a viable city like sewers, roads, and infrastructure, or to pull out the credit card and keep the party going until our collective face is in the gutter?…it is unfortunate but it looks as though our leaders including the last hope for solid resistance, the City Council are being railroaded straight into the gutter?…it will be interesting to see which members of the City Council will rise above the madness of what the CP and Councilman Weaver call a “joint venture†and oppose this venture that is anything but joint when it comes to ownership?
Same old crooks.cronies and clowns getting rich off the people of Evansville. Winnecke speaks and all I hear is DERP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is meant by derp?@
Libertarian Party is very small right now, that is true. But thanks to actions from republicans like the mayor, our numbers continue to grow.
If you attended any of the hotel meetings, some of the Libertarian Party Representatives who spoke came off as arrogant non-respectful cocky people. Not good for the Libertarian Party’s effort to attract more members. The Democrat and Republican Party people who attended the meetings and witnessed their behavior, will not be switching to the Libertarian Party.
The Libertarian Party people who spoke have a right to express their opinion. It is how they handled themselves in doing so is the point.
I don’t recall seeing any LP representatives speaking at the meetings I’ve attended. I think most of the opposing speakers have been disgruntled Republicans like myself.
Old Yeller needs to be put to sleep just like in the movie. Something is wrong with his brain.
Who might these Libertarian Party people be? There have only been two that I know of who had the opportunity to speak and one was asked by the mayor to sit down and answer questions for quite a while after one of the meetings, and was asked to speak to the news. I don’t think either would have taken the time to have him speak with them if he came off arrogant or disrespectful. However if I knew who these people are I would most definitely speak with them about being respectful, because at the end of the day we are all neighbors even if we disagree on issues. Send me an email and let me know who they are. lpsouthernindiana@yahoo.com
It is true that opposing such giveaways is a Libertarian position and for good reason. You have established businesses in your community, business which fought hard to get where they are. Handing their hard earned tax dollars to someone to break ground on a new project is a slap in their faces. This will not develop your economy, it will develop resentment except from those privileged enough to benefit from it.
All local hotel owners had a chance to participate in this venture–none chose to do so. They should not be complaining–they only have themselves to blame.
There are many reasons a local hotel owner might not choose to participate – low cash position, the desire to concentrate on existing investments, the conclusion the venture won’t make enough money to justify the expense, the fact the City never offered them the same deal HCW is getting.
The attitude that it’s THEIR fault for not building a hotel and preventing the City from stealing from them to subsidize a competitor is laughable. It’s as if you think it’s ok for the City to hold out this spending power and power of taxation like a gun to everyone’s head.
“If you don’t build what we say, when we say, we’ll shoot you.”
Isn’t Dunn Hospitality thinking of building a convention center on the east side close to the Expressway & I-164? If that is the case, they do want the city to succeed and get convention business, they just feel that it makes more sense to have it in a different place. Maybe a place that is easily accessible to people coming in town using I69.
But if it’s out by I69, that means the government can’t grow by funneling people into their publicly-owned and ran downtown amenities like The Ford Center, The Centre, and the Tropicana tax trap.
I am of the mind that the empty lot by the Ford Center and The Centre is of value, and the right hotel of the right size on that spot should make some money. I don’t think anyone is arguing the contrary. However, the question of whether or not to build needs to be left up to the private entrepreneurs and hotel magnates. Local government should remain neutral and not get involved in matters of private business.
Is the big difference between the $30M Kunkel plan and the $44M HCW the $10M developer fee that HCW gets to pocket?
Please do not suggest that we would ever consider Kunkel for this project.
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The fact is that if you removed the COIT from the bond proposal you could not peddle these proposed bonds anywhere.
Taxing your INCOME without giving you a say in the matter started the war that eventually led to the creation of this Country about 237 years ago. Many of you reading this had ancestors who were there and participated. Are you going to sit on your hind side now and give back those rights they fought for?
At a very MINIMUM, demand that they remove the COIT from the bond description. Then we will see how far this project goes.
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No new additional taxes is required to build this hotel project.
Every penny added to the TIF added value base is paid by ALL the real estate taxpayers in the county, even those outside the city limits.
As for the Evansville Regional Business Committee, if the sum total of their intellectual output on the the issue of the proposed new 3 star hotel is that the INCOMES of local citizens must be taxed in order to secure the bonds, then I think these stellar fellows need to strike their tent.
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No new additional taxes is required to build this hotel project.
You mean: as long as the COIT remains listed as bond revenue, right?
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Given its less than stellar history, I believe the time is ripe for a serious discussion on privatizing the Evansville Convention & Visitors Bureau. Most of the major cities in the United States have already made the move.
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On Johnson Controls, it was 7-2 opposed during the “discussion” phase. A meeting with Jack McNeely, and suddenly the ‘gang of 7’ latched on to a “savings” involving using an existing ATT fiber network,and the opposition just melted. The Council could “take credit” for the project going from $ 56 Million to $ 45 Million. 9-0 in favor.
As it relates to the Hotel, can we expect the same ? Say a reduction in the subsidy to $ 30 Million, the Council takes credit for “the savings of $ 7.5 Million”, and it’s 9-0 in favor again ?
Last: If Johnson Controls was 9-0 to garner the union vote next election–does any Council Member voting AGAINST the hotel then lose the union vote they bent over on for Johnson Controls ?????
No doubt they will loose the labor vote if they do not support this convention hotel project. Labor is hurting big time.
The only thing you’ve said so far I agree with. But it isn’t the job of taxpayers to surrender their treasure and their politicians to unions at every turn. If labor wants to survive in today’s climate it needs to be weaned from the public teet. That one is drying up.
Teat!
It seems to me that this should be common sense. Giving government money to a private company is anything but helpful. It will not create a even playing field but a monopoly in the hands of the government. Why should I have to compete with the government if I open up a business? It’s unfair, and we need a free market approach. The free market can solve it all. Competition lowers prices and better services, whereas monopolies do the opposite. Doesn’t the Mayor understand simple economics? If someone doesn’t want a hotel, why should they have to pay for it.
In most situations you are absolutely correct. This is a very unusual situation.. The City needs a Convention Hotel to bring more conventions to town. Existing local hotel owners had a chance to participate in the project but they elected not to. If a convention hotel is built existing hotel owners will benefit with the overflow and City will attract conventions dollars to our City. Without the City financial help, no one will build a Hotel downtown. We need a nice hotel–the sooner the better.
No new taxes are required for this project.
Is it True,– that the Bonded Debt (IOUs) of Evansville will be expanded to finance this folly?
How many years, will this GIFT to the HOTEL OWNERS take to pay off?
Wayne, your talking points about “no new taxes” is misleading and sophomoric.
Food & Beverage, Hotel room tax, and the Riverboat Boarding pass tax are all subject to the whims of the local market. The downtown TIF has come up short in the past and had to have funds transferred into it in order to meet its obligation on servicing the Arena Bonds.
Everyone, you included, knows that without the COIT in the list of sources of revenue guaranteeing the bonds these bonds would never sell.
I believe it is illegal to tax a persons income without offering them a means of remonstrance.
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I know I am repeating myself: there is a real need for a downtown convention hotel. This is a very unusual situation. No private investor/s is willing to come forward and build thehotel on their own. None. I do not know of any other situation where I would support giving taxpayer money to help finance a business venture in this manner except this one. The fact is there is a need for the hotel and it will not be built without financial help from the City/Government using taxpayer money.
I stand by my statement the taxpayers of Evansville will not see a tax increase if this hotel project is done.
Do you think $37.5 Million is necessary? None of the other proposals that could not get a loan were asking for even half that amount.
The mayor does not understand this. He is dumber than a box of rocks when numbers are involved. He made his pact with the Democrats to get his job and now he is paying them back. What is amazing is how many people who have at one point in their lives been competent with numbers that are doing the chicken dance of support. Wayne Parke in particular knows better but must be intoxicated with party Kool-Aid. If Weinzapfel would have proposed giving away $37.5 Million, Parke would have called a news conference on the Civic Center steps and blessed him out for being an irresponsible spendthrift.
Yoda–I wish you would make your points and not be disrespectful to our Mayor.
Respect is earned. After Earthcare, Johnson Control, a chicken fat video, and this hotel this guy has a long way to go to earn mine. I voted for Winnecke but regret it. Where is the transparency, collaboration, and honesty that he ran on? I forgave the Homestead Tax grab because I thought he learned his lesson. He obviously did not.
Great response, Yoda.
TIF funds steal from taxes otherwise available to all taxing units in the county.
How many times are people going to let these local politicians tell them that “we taxpayers have to buy or jobs here in Evansville.”
The next thing you know, when you send in that resume for a new job, they will be asking for a check along with it!
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Addition jobs is a good by product of the project. The goal is to have a convention hotel downtown. This project is not being done for jobs. It is being done to bring convention dollars to Evansville. It is great that jobs will be created if the project is done because people need the work.
Is the land for this new venture a part of the $37.5 mil or is it being donated to the “bribee” also.
Land is another gift. What is it worth? Based on what the city paid it must be worth at least $3 Million.
This is a great point. Nowhere in the calculations of the city’s interest in this project has the land itself and its market value been considered. What’s an entire city block in the heart of downtown next door to a brand new, state of the art arena worth?
As against subsidies as I am, I could almost make the concession and support giving the land away under the provision the recipient built a hotel on site and no other subsidies were given in the deal. I would have to consider that longer, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction.
I haven’t heard any news lately on the IU Medical School. If I was IU, I would pick 3 sites and choose the one away the most. One site in the city limits (downtown), one in Vand. County by Gateway and one across the street in Warrick County. Get these 3 bidding against each other and Winnecke and the ERC will give away everything to get it. All on the taxpayer’s dime.
To WasaRepublican
The convention business is a competitive business. If we build a hotel, it needs to be a state of the art 1st class hotel. Our City has a lot to offer but we must have a nice 1st class hotel to attract conventions to Evansville because they are other Cities who want the convention to come to their City. Also keep in mind the Executive Inn was almost twice the size with 500 rooms.
Please rethink about not being a Republican. I would be happy to meet with you.
Let’s talk about the Executive… Twice the size at 500 rooms, sat in the SAME SPOT, with as good or better amenities than will come with the new hotel, yet it could not survive. The local hotel market has gotten even worse since it went out of business.
Tell me again how bringing up the Exec helps your side of this debate.
You are to young to remember. When the Executive Hotel was operated several years by Bob Green, it was the place to be in Evansville. It was so crowded you could not find a place to stand let alone sit down.
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