IS IT TRUE APRIL 1, 2015

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IS IT TRUE that it Governor Mike Pence has really been treading water these past few days trying to justify the legislators passage of the recent discrimination measures in the “Religious Freedom Restoration Act”?  …we are pleased that many Corporate Executives, public officials, celebrities, ordinary citizens and just about everybody has expressed their displeasure with the law?  …that Governor Pence has embarrassed every Hoosier citizens for pushing to pass this law?  … we hope that steps will be taken by the end of the week to take corrective action?  …the CCO says; “shame on you Governor”?

IS IT TRUE that yesterday, the Redevelopment Commission meeting turned into a “jump on” Commissioner Cheryl Musgrave event? …the local union boss, fellow ERC Board members and the Mayors Chief of Staff attacked Ms. Musgrave reasonable remarks and questions concerning the Motel deal at every turn?

IS IT TRUE that ERC Board member Mike Schopmeyer, a Winnecke appointee was correct when he said, “We’re being politicized at this event today, and that’s unfortunate”? …Schopmeyer, Mayors Chief of Staff , Chairman of the ERC and the union boss indeed politicized the meeting when that didn’t address Mrs. Musgraves reasonable financial questions about the downtown Hotel project?

IS IT TRUE that Musgrave’s questions and her insistence to get answers before voting were right on target?  …her questions related to the $3.6 million loan from county government and the visitors bureau were also relevant and of major importance?   …she made a reasonable request for a one week delay in order for City Council get answers concerning this $3.6 million loan? …she was rebuffed at every turn?

IS IT TRUE that three City Council members — President-Dan Adams, D-At-Large, Stephanie Brinkerhoff-Riley, D-3rd Ward and 2nd Ward Missy Mosby attended the Redevelopment Commission meeting yesterday? …Adams and Brinkerhoff -Riley joined Musgrave in seeking the one-week delay? …the Mayors political puppet, Councilwoman Missy Mosby, D-2nd Ward urged the panel to pass the development agreement without delay? ….Mosby of course, sat through Mondays City Council meeting without asking one single question?  … most people didn’t even realize that she was in attendance?

IS IT TRUE that Missy Mosby not only refused to participate in the recent 2nd Ward discussion on CCO and Woods and Woods Tri-State Voices TV show, then misrepresented that she had only been given 48 hour notice when there is proof that she was notified ONE FULL WEEK in advance? …that the real truth that Ms. Mosby was given alternate dates by the show co-host and was even offered her choice of other dates for the taping? Once, again, Missy failed to be honest to the voters of the 2nd Ward and we are preparing to provide our readers with E-mails and text messages that shall show her unwillingness to discuss the issues of the 2nd Ward?

FOOTNOTE: PLEASE TAKE TIME TO CAST YOUR VOTE ON TODAYS READERS POLL QUESTION.

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

193 COMMENTS

  1. When will the Republican party join this century? They’ve once again embarrassed us on a national level. We look dumber than fat poor diabetes haven Mississippi.

    • May take it easy on those state republicans/ state chamber of commerce today,
      for today is their special day! One does have to admit that blunders at the state level
      does put the State of Indiana in the national spotlight. Then again the Griffin tornado
      of 1925, and the Ohio River flood of 1937 did the same thing!

      Happy Fools Day!

  2. The solution to this problem is obvious make sexual orientation protected. the governor’s refusal to consider this tell it all.

      • Christians run this damn country and they try to put their needs and wants into everyone else’s head. They have all the damn freedom they need. You are free to practice you religion as you please. Just don’t go knocking on my door and trying to tell me that evolution is wrong and the world is only 4000 years old. Everyone is free to believe how they want. We don’t need people like you PRETENDING that they are being persecuted when they are absolutely not in the USA. You might consider a one way plane ticket to the ISIS held parts of the Middle East and complain to them about Christians being persecuted over there because that’s about the only place that happened. Even Russia and Egypt allow Christians to practice their faith. Oh yea and even Israel ( they don’t believe in Christ) but they still allow Christians to worship Jesus freely.

        The only modern day religion that I can think of that persecutes modern day Christians is the ISIS Muslims.

        I would encourage you to be careful what you say over there in ISIS held country and complain to them about how badly the Christians are being persecuted. Because over there you will find out what the real meaning of Christian’s being persecuted is.

        Compared to the ISIS held territories the US Christians have it really good. So no you are not being persecuted here in the USA. But it’s the damn Christians who often try to persecute others here in the USA. You want to persecute the GLBT people with freedom and then have the damn nerve to talk about you being persecuted. That talks a lot of GALL and is pretty damn selfish IMHO.

        • Compared to the ISIS held territories, US homosexuals have it really good. So they’re not being prosecuted here in the USA. Is that what you meant to say?

    • So if we make gay a protected class, then will a religious person be able to decline being involved in a same sex wedding, or should we also make religion a protected class?

      The solution would be for Indiana to get out of the marriage business. The next best solution is a law that would allow the courts to decided if one is being unduly burdened by a law and being unnecessarily forced to violate her religious convictions. Good luck on that law.

      • IC, always agree with you about government being out of marriage business. This should
        be the business of whatever faith one follows! The government should only recognize every
        person as a individual. No economical advantage of marriage over as single people!

        As a matter of fact, the government should get out of the business of having a person
        label white/black/other as well!

        • Now I agree with this ARM. The only reason these people want to get married is because they get a break on their taxes. If married was not tied to tax breaks they would not need to go to the State to get a marriage license and they could just get their local rabbi, priest or Pasteur to marry them or they could just live together and be happy. What these people do behind closed doors won’t bother me. But I’m as much against gay pride paraded on main street as I am seeing two heterosexual lovers kissing on main street out in the open. Both of these couples need to get a room. IMHO.

          • There are many more reasons than taxes here. A few would be inheritance, raising children, assignment of health care decisions, making wills, renting/owning property and on and on. Real life is complicated as are two people living together and sharing their life.

      • INDIANA ENOCH:
        Lots of people have expressed similar opinions like yours. They didn’t want to give all kinds of American citizens “a protected class.” Lots of people like you said ignorant, idiotic things wanting to seize the civil rights of other American citizens like:

        1. “Well, women aren’t as smart as men. They shouldn’t be allowed to vote.”
        2. “I shouldn’t have to be forced to serve black people. They should have their own place.”
        3. “This is a Christian company. We don’t want Jews. And that shouldn’t be illegal to have that rule.”
        4. “If I want to discriminate with “No Gays Allowed,” the law should protect my right to do that.”

        INDIANA ENOCH, they all said things JUST LIKE YOU……”So, if we make women, blacks, Jews and the gays a protected class, are you saying they get civil rights protected by the law now? That’s ridiculous.”

        Those people were all wrong, and the US Constitution protected their civil rights against the ignorant haters who were trying to prevent them equal protection under the law.

        You are wrong to do it too Indiana Enoch. I accept your right to say bigoted things, but not the right to enshrine such crap into law.

        • Quark, you are so small I can barely see you . . .

          Why stop with these protected classes you note above ? What about middle-aged white men who drink too much beer ? Where are our rights against religious persecution ?

          • Quark is so much larger that you, “The_Daily_Harold, and his stare shines so much brighter than yours. Quark is right and you are dead wrong!!!

            Everyone should have the right to pursue happiness as long as they don’t tread on others in the process.

            Christians have all the rights they need, but they should not be allowed to persecute others without consequences. And that is why this new law is so wrong.

            This new law has clauses with allows people to persecute others without any consequences with the law and that’s just plain WRONG and UNJUST! And this is exactly why there is such a big fuss NATIONWIDE over this new IN Law. It’s also why the Governor of Arkansas vetoed the same bill that came to him the other day.

            HAVE A GREAT DAY HAROLD

          • @moveon:

            a) Do you know what a quark is (subatomic particle) ? Very small.;

            b) I was kidding !

        • …..I-E, I find it unbelievable that you even wrote the words “So if we make gay a protected class…”

          It is disgusting. And it is ignorant.

          • Funny how you pick up on that but not the rest of what I said or answer my question. Did the Pope pee in your Cheerios or something that you hate people of faith so much?

          • I-E,

            Oh, I have addressed ALL of what you said. I have cited numerous examples. I have provided you with expert analysis even from credible and conservative sources…..not liberal hate people sources like you insist all who disagree with you are….that support exactly what I said. Not only that, I have shown you evidence from all over the State of Indiana Business community, THE major corporations of Indiana including institutions like the NCAA, that agrees the the RFRA is discriminatory legislation. Even NASCAR for God’s sake.

            THAT is what is UNBELIEVABLE Indiana Enoch.

        • QD,

          Nothing like that is possible under this bill or being proposed. That you have to resort to such a mischaracterization is indicative you lacking a reasonable argument. Homosexuality is not a gender, a race, or a religion.

          Not once has an RFRA law resulted in the accusations you are making. Not once, never, nada, no way, didn’t happen.

          The question is not if the law allows this level of discrimination, but if anyone should be forced to participate in an event that violates he person’s religious convictions? So should they be?

          • Indiana Enoch:

            Oh, it’s not a mischaracterization. Just read the Wall Street Journal today….reproduced many places in this CCO comment section today. It IS accurate.

            And the other religious liberty rights you claim to want to have don’t provide protection when breaking the law and are subordinate to the law and a citizen’s civil rights. The Courts have proven this time and time again. And the law, or the Courts….will shortly add a person’s sexual orientation as a civil right.

            It is amazing how FAST the tables turned on this RFRA thing. Even NASCAR thinks its bad for God’s sake.

            Indiana Enoch, you are NOT leading in any glorious campaign here….although I know you THINK you are. So did Warren Jeffs, the extreme Christian leader, and he has insisted all along he had the right to do as he chooses because his religion authorizes it.

          • May I recommend you read the law instead and inform us where it allows jim Crow laws?

            I am not leading a crusade, I am countering ignorance.

          • You’re looking too much like Warren Jeffs……that’s what you’re doing.

            Indiana Enoch, you are not making your case. Much worse, you are on the losing end of the law…and THAT is why you want to avoid The Fix that is coming because, even in Pence’s words it needs to fix the discrimination issues.

            Sorry Sir. Sexual orientation WILL be added as a civil right protected even from religious zealots.

          • IE you are wrong when you say “Nothing like that is possible under this bill or being proposed”, in response to Quarks 10:43 post above. Wrong Wrong Wrong!

          • Indiana Enoch is being wholly disingenuous trying to draw a response under the lying claim that the RFRA contains provisions for old Jim Crow laws…..

            …..because his argument is weak.

            It’s a distraction. He knows it.

            But to compare this civil right (the right not to be discriminated against because of sexual orientation) is 100% the same as the struggle to gain protected civil rights for Blacks, Jews and Women.

            I-E knows this. He knows he is willingly trying to distract the issue.

            Because he knows he is vulnerable to being accused of being “just another bigot” that tried to prevent civil rights for women, blacks and Jews.

        • QD, “Those people were all wrong, and the US Constitution protected their civil rights against the ignorant haters who were trying to prevent them equal protection under the law.”

          Christians also deserve protection from your hate. That, unlike a right to a wedding cake, is in our constitution.

          • I-E, Aaah, but those unspecific religious liberty rights don’t provide protection when breaking the law and are subordinate to the law and a citizen’s civil rights. The Courts have proven this time and time again. And the law, or the Courts….will shortly add a person’s sexual orientation as a civil right.

            THEN, you can move to the theocracy you want, Iran.

          • More lies and mischaracterizations. I want religious liberty not theocracy. You want the government to dictate religion, that is theocracy.

            Deal with your hate QD and there will be substantially less of it in the world.

          • IE. No one hates Christians here in the USA and those that are asking for the GLBT community are not haters. You twist the truth and make the lovers into haters and the haters into helpless lambs which is totally twisting the truth.

            Someone has brain washed you and you are out of control. No one is bashing Christians these days in the USA. The Christians are the vast majority of people in the USA. So they control most every thing in the USA. They own the USA Senate and House and even the White House. The US Supreme Court has more Christians than any other religious group in their mist. The entire country protects Christians.

            But on the other hand the forefathers knew it was very important to separate Religion and STATE. Because if they did not do that the Religious Zeolots would persecute all others. And that’s now how this country was founded. We were founded with Religious tolerance for ALL. Believe it or not Indiana Enoch there are other religions in the world and in the USA and they need to have freedom to practice their own religion as long as it does not hinder others.

            But I fear that you are so bigoted that you will never comprehend at all the others are trying to tell you.

          • We will see who is brainwashed MoveOn.

            OD, I hear there is work being done to clarify that this aw will not allow for Jim Crow laws. Will the satisfy your objections, or will you still demand that Christians be forced to be involved in same sex weddings at the request of the couple?

    • Here is a very succinct explanation oof this issue from FB friend.

      “The first clue one needs to consider when determining the legitimacy of the invocation of the authority of government to settle disputes about whose most basic rights are being violated by whom in a given situation is who is trying to force or prevent whom from doing or not doing what? E.g., is someone trying to personally prevent someone else from getting married? if so then they would be a suspect. But if someone is trying to force someone else to attend and participate in their wedding when the someone else, for personal religious beliefs, does not want to do so, then the enforcer should clearly be the primary suspect. “

      • Well Indiana Enoch, today’s WALL STREET JOURNAL discussed this in-depth today…..The issues, and the WSJ clarifications are below:

        1. Claims that Indiana’s new law is the same as has been passed in other States and by Bill Clinton:

        Today’s WSJ: “But legal experts say the Indiana and Arkansas laws are more expansive than the federal one or other state RFRAs. Unlike the federal law, for instance, the Indiana law explicitly allows a person or business to invoke the law in a private dispute, such as a lawsuit involving a business and a customer who believes she has been discriminated against.”

        Claims the law doesn’t allow a business to hang a “No Gays Allowed” sign.

        Today’s WSJ: “The Indiana law just makes explicit…that this is an available shield that a business can use to defend itself,” said Josh Blackman, a constitutional-law expert and law professor at the South Texas College of Law.

        3. The Claim RFRA does not (“it doesn’t say that!!!”) allow you to discriminate against gay citizens?

        Today’s WSJ: Legal experts say that Indiana businesses are likely free to not serve gays and lesbians in those areas in Indiana that aren’t covered by local antidiscrimination ordinances.

        • Then, we may derive from your post, from this point on, the WSJ is inviolate in it’s articles and editorials and as such, the WSJ is now the only truth to be had? Even though numerous constitutional law professors from IU, Harvard, Georgetown, and other schools have dismissed the criticism of Indiana’s law as trite when so many other states and the federal government have the law?

          As you said in an earlier post attempting to quiet disagreement with you, your stance is “ignorant”.

          • Oh DISAFFECTED….so you finally get clarification from a credible, notwithstanding the right wing owner of Fox News Rupert Murdoch, that lays bare the flat-out discriminatory nature of the new RFRA law….and you’re upset.

            I understand. So does the Indiana Business community, disaffected. You lost them, and THAT is a bigger problem than being laid bare by the credible and conservative Wall Street Journal.

          • Well said Quark. You remind me of another poster in this forum who’s been visibly absent for a week or two.

    • I like a man who can get the point across in as few words as possible. You did that today. Good point and great post.

      • I think you are supposed to say “i like a person”. You will upset the no genders.

  3. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE MOVES TO CHANGE CITY’S NAME TO “JENKEMVILLE!”
    In a move to exploit Evansville’s “Jenkem” producing COMBINED SEWERS SYSTEM, …the Evansville Chamber Of Commerce moves to adopt the dubious moniker.
    Remember – Sewer Gas Never Sleeps!” – Welcome to “Jenkemville!” Nose-clips, a must!
    April fools! …

  4. We are a republic not a democracy. A democracy is mob rule where are majority of people can run roughshod over a minority.

    How disappointed I am that so many think that the thuggery of a few corporations and vocal celebrities who are misinformed concerning this bill would is how our laws should be created, or that “just about everybody” has expressed displeasure with this law.

    The editor is clearly ignorant of this law, our system of government, the a teal outcome of the current RFRA in other states, and believes religious liberty need not apply when comes to one being forced to being evolved in events that violate one’s religious convictions.

    • IE, by your first paragraph you just defined our current state government as being a “democracy” for the
      mob known as the republican party has ran roughshod over the minority!

      • +1.

        He’s gone over the edge. The idea that he lost same-sex marriage…and tried to claw back with the RFRA and will now see that diluted and dissolved now? I-E’s gone over the cliff.

      • When did the republican party run over the minority? THe democrats did when they ran off to Urbana.

        • Since the start of that legislation session when the Demo’s head across the state.
          They were still conducting business with a messenger traveling between the
          two points. Things like that happens when the elected don’t mention the RTW
          before the election, but are told what to do by the “state chamber of commerce”
          before their term starts!

          • IE, better do your research. They were conducting their caucus meetings
            on topics and then forwarding them to Indy. They did not just sit around
            the pool and drinking Arnold Palmers. Articles were in local paper on this
            as it went on.

    • INDIANA ENOCH, you are losing it.

      It’s not “a few corporations” who YOU think are thugs..
      …it is these bread and butter American apple pie Indiana businesses:

      CEO Tom Linebarger of Cummins Inc.
      Joseph Swedish, CEO of Anthem Blue Cross & Blue Shield Health Insurance
      Jeff Smulyan, CEO of Emmis Communications
      Dan Evans, CEO of INDIANA UNIVERSITY HEALTH
      Jack Phillips, CEO of Roche Diagnostics
      John Lechleiter, CEO of Eli Lilly and Co.
      Tim Hassinger, CEO of Dow AgroSciences
      Bill Oesterle, CEO of Angie’s List

      So….we get it. Indiana Enoch….you are so adamant about discriminating against gay Indiana citizens “because of your religion” that you will castigate even the BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

      We also get it Indiana Enoch………..”You want to burn the house down in order to fry your egg.”

      • Then these corporate behemoths, who earn 200 times more than their employees, are now the voice of sincere concern and, like the WSJ, can now be exalted and quoted for their truth and compassion, whereas, last week they were the despised “1%”?

        Once again, your post is pure ignorance.

        • Ignorance? I think rather the leaders of the Indiana business community are pretty smart, a LOT smarter than you clearly.

          You’re losing this DISAFFECTED….and NOW you decide to attack the business community for being ignorant and wrong?

          Right. That’s a winner you got there. Stay on that horse, sir.

      • Much to the chagrin of some, I think the RFRA will keep me out of jail.

        I might e hopeless, but you like me.

        • I-E,

          In fact, a lot of people like you. But you are so bound and determined to fry your egg it is worrisome. Like you perceive this RFRA thing as some kind of last stand.

          They’re adding sexual orientation to the list of protected civil rights I-E.

          Acceptance….When you got involved in providing a government service, you opened your world to new people and the laws of the US.

          After all, these people are real and genuine. Their wish for unfettered happiness does nothing to keep you from being happy.

          But your demand absolutely interferes with their wish to be happy and unfettered. This distinction, in and of itself, should tell you something.

        • “People like me” You mean like “those people” who need to quit being so uppity?

  5. Missy’s on a vapid roll.
    I attended an unveiling ceremony yesterday evening for Rick Davis’ namesake street (over by his beloved Reitz High School) When City Council approved it, the family was thrilled (Rick Davis died last year, a life cut much too short). They saved the street sign unveiling for his 46th birthday, which was yesterday (March 31) So, not only was it the 1st birthday without him, but it was special that it was the 1st day they could bring his mother out (she’s had some falls lately, and this bad weather has been difficult for her) His death ha been devastating for his family, he was much loved by a great many people.
    The entire Davis family and Mrs. Julie Davis was there. It’s always very emotional for them when it’s about Rick. They had a little ceremony that was attended by a large group.
    Upon arrival. someone from Missy Mosby’s tribe placed her campaign signs under his signs (evidently without permission from the owners, and at Ms. Mosby’s behest) so this would be what the Davis family would see.
    I encountered two older women laughing and photographing the sign on Pennsylvania, and asked if they thought that their little joke on a dead man, to hurt his family- was funny, to which they replied “we’re Missy’s supporters” to which I replied something not suitable to print as to their stupidity AND Miz Mosbey’s.

    The man was being honored as the fine person he was, his mother and wife were there, his family and friends were there. This was not political. His brother is running against her, but he has never attacked her personally because THAT would be TRASHY. Miz Mosbly and her supporters seem to have cornered the market on TRASHY, and STUPID, LOW CLASS, AND DISREPECTFUL TO THE DEAD. Everyone there was disgusted.

    I’m not obligated to be high hat-that was THE MOST disgusting, TRASHY display of disrespect I have ever seen. What’s next? A film of Ms. Mosbly desecrating Rick Davis’ grave? Would THAT be amusing? Photo worthy?

    The idiots will be sad to hear that, in usual Davis fashion, we all proceeded to a nearly restaurant where Rick Davis was remembered, his birthday celebrated, and after initial upset? It was decided that Miz Mossbly should be pitied, prayed for, because it must be terrible to be such a pathetic, egocentric fool, and she was too inconsequential to consider any further.

    • bootsie, thanks for posting this. You should have punched those two old laughing broads in the face, and dumped them on the front lawn of F.C. Tucker with their signs. How disrespectful can one person be ? Hope Karma bites Missy in her ample backside . . .

      • ample backside. She needs to do so more back side exercises and lose that flab on her back side. Eat more Chicken Missy.

        • Move, Well at least you don’t resort to personal attacks about someone’s appearance.

    • The MOST ignorant part? That’s the 6th ward. Musty Mossbly is running in the 2nd ward-this was pure ugly meanness.

    • bootsie

      Magnificent write-up of the event.

      And I agree with you 100% The election signs for the designated CCB (City Council Bimbo) was insulting and insensitive to Rick, who I knew for quite some time.

      I am pretty damn confident that Rick would NEVER have agreed to using political signage at an event that was memorializing someone who had passed on when tribute was being shown. I am disgusted to hear about this.

      Trashy

      PS: Maybe when the photos come out we can PhotoShop her damn signs out

    • Missy is disgusting. I would not vote for her if she was running for “DOG CATCHER”. She should be ashamed of herself.

      I hate yard sale signs of all kinds. They trash up the area and are illegal. When people put their “house for sale signs” in my yard I take them down and throw them away. Only once or twice has a realtor stopped to ask me permission to put a “house for sale yard sign” in my yard and I allowed them to put the sign in my yard for a few weeks. Anyone else disrespects my property ownership by putting trash in my yard without asking and getting permission first.

      Missy’s supporters evidently failed to realized that putting a political yard sign in someone else’s yard is illegal and disrespectful in it’s own right but to do that in a yard where the new Davis Way street sign is located is a new low.

      Please everyone show Missy and her supporters how you feel by voting for her opponent this time. It’s time to throw all the Mosby’s out of public office now.

      • Which city council district do you live in ? You may find the realtor and other signs are on government right of way. Might you be arrested for vandalism ?

      • I am all for Steve Davis-but this event wasn’t political-it wasn’t in her ward, it had NADA to do with her. This was for Rick Davis and his family.

        Cowboy, insinuate anything you like, but I still would have enough respect for your human life and your survivors NOT to ever disrespect your dead. I am a lot of things (not all good) but I’m not trashy.

        • Most of us would not have known about this but for your smarmy attempts to belittle Missy. I can’t vote for Missy but I would if I lived in her ward. I will vote for Jonathon because he’s running at large. Missy will out politic Davis, the folks in her ward know this is a political set up, Davis is running for CC because of political pressure from the weak arm of the democrat party, the winning arm of the party will support Missy. I will support Missy because she apparently has an understanding of the politically workings of local politics. It appears that everything she has supported has came to be. I still remember the 7-2 vote against the water meters and the 9-0 turn around vote for them, Missy knew the fix was in. Say what you will but the lady is politically astute. Davis doesn’t have his heart in the race, he’s just doing it for the party. Your post has a dark vein of evilness and deceit in it. For some it will re enforce what they already want to believe and they’ll agree with it. Get used to Winnecke being mayor for another 4 years, the fix is in and the strong arm of the democrat party is already working for him.

          • I’m not deceitful. It was an ugly thing to do, and it’s beyond politics. The man is dead, he doesn’t care about the Democrats or the Republicans anymore. Support whomever you want, because you only seem to care which way the money flows.

            The man is dead, we all saw this nastiness occur-if she looks like an ugly hearted person, might be that she is. Politics didn’t belong at this occasion. I met two of the people whom did this and they weren’t Davis’–are you suggesting the Davis’ did this? Put down your spy novel, Sherlock.
            Imagine what it takes to show your ugliness at a memorial for a dead man-believe what you want, toddle after “the strong arm of the Democratic Party” which is nothing more than the Republican purchases of the weak minded, bleary sell outs, who kowtow to whomever will give them money. Winnecke has tapped this city dry. Mosby does what she’s told to and always has, there is not an original thought in her head.
            It’s going to change. It has to. It’s too ugly not to. Me-dark and devious? That’s hilarious. The only thing you’re right about is the fix being in, in so many places.

          • POV, you are sounding like Wayne Parke from last year on Marsha Abel.
            We know how well that went! Notice from your other post today that you must
            enjoy the flavor of “republican boots”!

        • B, It was just a joke. You make it plain in your posts you wouldn’t vote for Mosby even if she personally paid all the cities debts.

        • B, I think it was in poor taste but did anyone see Missy place the signs ? Some times volunteers get carried away.

          • His mother and wife were meant to see that-what kind of sociopath would casually brush that off? “Oh it was a little joke, her supporters (in the 6th ward?) got a little carried away?” Ugly candidate, ugly volunteers crossed the line and disrespected the dead for no good reason, other than to hurt his family.
            Where local politics (hell, national politics) has gone is SICK. IT HAS GOT TO CHANGE-none of you own this city, and when you cash in and move on? We will still be here, cleaning up your mess.

            And Missy has lost a great deal of weight, she looked very nice, last I saw her. Her parents are very decent people, and I can’t believe they raised her to behave this way. Rick Davis’ mother, wife, and family were meant to see that “little joke” and it’s cruelty is unfathomable to these people.
            God watches us all. Some will live to regret that most unkind “little joke”.

      • Everyone was welcome, YOU would have been welcome, too. Just not welcome to insult and upset a dead man’s family. Rick Davis loved Evansville, his body rests here—- this wasn’t political.

          • Honest question-I am not ashamed of my opinions.
            I don’t always succeed, but I try to be a better person, having known astonishing people. I am grateful to have experienced some of the bad things I have, because I desperately needed to change. It is the only way to become better, and more at peace.
            I know that these desperate, vicious attacks on certain people derive from deep insecurity. It must be terrifying to be them-so desperate to have anything to hang onto that you’d sink to nauseating acts to stay on top. So desperate for money that you’d do depraved things to get it, from anyone, at any cost. I wish people were stronger-they seem to have forgotten that they have promised to be a better version of themselves to serve the people. Too often people get lost in their pursuits, and they forget that people are in need, and you can do nothing better in this life than to help others-Rick Davis lived by that. It’s naive, but it would be a better world if we all believed that.
            We all pass away. I want to be thought well of when my time comes-I have lots to do to achieve that. I want to be mindful instead of angry when someone does desperate, ugly things-that they will suffer from their actions far more than the suffering they hope to inflict.
            As I said, I have lots of work to do getting to that place.

  6. Mike Shopmeyer at ERC meeting yesterday: ” We’re being politicized at this event today, and that’s unfortunate”.
    Heady words from someone who is himself a POLITICAL APPOINTEE to the Commission !

  7. Union goofball Paul Green, Winnecke supporter for reelection, at yesterday’s ERC meeting said that the delays in the hotel for the last two years were all political, and has created an embarrassment for the city.

    No Paulie, lack of financial viability for the downtown hotel has been the main problem; with a close second the unfettered greed of the trade unions to sink their fangs into more public funds . . .

  8. Missy Mosby is a tool.

    The hotel has been in the works for five (5) years; she shows up at an ERC meeting and votes to damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead, no more waiting, not even one week’s delay to assess the $ 3.6 million “oops”.

    Council should yank it’s bonding approval by sundown.

  9. Indianaenoch
    Having known you a long time, …and loving you like I do, … I might point out that your zeal is showing,
    …and it’s not flattering. …
    Jus’ sayin’ …

    • Indianaenoch- even though your “zeal” in defending our Constitutional rights and the rule of law are unflattering to those promoting mob rule, yours is the correct course of action if we are to remain free for all.

      • Well…not so sure about that commonsense. I think you are not only wrong, but foolish on this one.

        I mean I have a hard time admiring a guy who is so determined to fry his egg he is willing to burn his house down to do it.

      • Thanks CS, you stand for right also. We should never confuse being popular with being just.

    • Bubba, love you to. My zeal is for the constitution and rule of law not being flattering those who are ignorant of it and ignore it. Let’s focus on the truth about this law and not my underwear. 🙂

      Do you believe that any person should be forced to become involved in an event that violates that person’s religious conviction? Should I as a minister, being as I am granted authority by the state to solemnize a marriage, be forced to solemnize same sex marriages or suffer financial ruin? If not, then how would you propose to protect religious liberty against those who would and have forced other to be involved in their events or suffer financial harm without a RFRA law? If not this law, then what law

      I think if you would step back from the fervor surrounding this law, you might see it in a more flattering light.

      • If someone is in business to serve the public then no one is forcing them to do anything against their will. If they don’t want to server all the public then don’t open and run a public business. Do private consulting and service who you want and refuse all others.

        But if you are operating a grocery store and refuse service to blacks or gays then that’s discrimination and it’s against the law. Blacks don’t have to sit in the back of the bus anymore and GLBT should not be made to wait in line to get in the back of the bus either.

        What really gets me is that Jesus is the leader of the Christians and yet he would be the first to offer any black man/woman or any other minority the first loaf of break from his basket. He did not go to the Mountain side to pray just for a few people. He prayed for all people and didn’t refuse to serve anyone. Jesus was not a hypocrite but some of his followers don’t practice as Jesus did. Some Christians are not true Christians when they hate their other fellow men/women. That’s not how true Christians should act. Sorry but If I’ve offended some of you but the truth hurts. Just remember that none of us are perfect but Jesus will forgive you if you always try to do better the next time and ask for forgiveness with a true heart.

    • Allow me to add that as long as you have known me I warned that the direction of redefining marriage would result in this day. This law is the result of the government choosing to license love.

      • I-E….You were right too. It was always wrong, immoral and illegal to deny a US citizen their civil rights and guarantee of equal protection under the law.

        Those that advocate stealing these rights and protections suffer the same fate as all who break the law.

      • IE
        First let me say: I understand your point of view.
        But the way I see it: When a person chooses a religion, …he does so out of faith and with the knowledge that difficulties will arise. Difficulties such as personal struggles – varying beliefs within the chosen sect – differences among the vast number of other Religions and peculiarities that are the nature of all theology. No law can provide for Civil Rights in an equal protection context, …and protect believers from inevitable clashes of religious/social culture.

        A Muslim may be forced to see a ham sandwich – a Hindu – a hamburger – and a Christian Minister may be compelled to marry a same-sex couple under the laws of the State.
        That Minister however, …would have the option of refusing, and face whatever consequence followed.
        Religion often requires sacrifice. One might consider that to be the very fabric of Christianity.
        Every point of refuge has a price, …and religion is no exception.
        This: from a lover/not a hater
        ~b~

        • ….whoa! That is outstanding characterization. Great job Bubba.

          And you are right, Jesus was a humble person who sought out the disadvantaged, the cast out and mistreated, he is about compassion and acceptance. I do not see that from the extreme Christians.

          • So now you take it upon yourself to define what a true Christian is QD?

            I am sorry I don’t meet your level of what Christianity is, but while Jesus was accepting, loving, and forgiving, He did not condone sin.

            Do you see the Jesus who defined marriage as one man and one woman condoning same sex marriage a more than He would condone a swinger’s key swap party?

            While Jesus forgave the woman woman caught in adultery rather than stone her, he also told her to go and “sin no more.”

            So maybe you go to church every Sunday and are a better Christian than the rest of us hypocrites, but where does that give you the right to tell another christian what he must do or pay a fine?

          • How have I persecuted anyone? Have I denied them their right under the law to marry by declining to perform the wedding?

        • Religion , Christianity, does require sacrifices, but being a citizen of this country does not require that one sacrifices his religious convictions. I respectfully disagree with you.

          When the government can essentially can dictate what religious ceremonies you must participate in, then it has established a religion. In what part of the constitution do you find that a right to a wedding trumps religious liberty? We are not talking about seeing a ham sandwich, or denying a person a sandwich at a lunch counter. This law does not allow for that. What we are talking about is the government unduly forcing someone to violate their religion without a compelling interest to the government.

          When one declines to participate in a same sex wedding, another is “not” being denied a right to marry someone of the same gender or a place at the lunch counter. But when one is forced to marry two of the same gender, then that person has been denied his religious liberty. I see no way that you can reconcile punishing religious beliefs with our Constitution.

          • Bubba…..This comment it’s……Like a horse running into a burning barn. Confused. Distracted. Baying about things that are not applicable. Logic and reason do not apply with this comment.

      • IE one that I do agree. I do think that the law should protect all but not single out a few for special privileges. The marriage laws to me are flawed. The law and the tax man should not give tax breaks to married couples over single people. That’s the basis of a lot of this fighting going on over gay marriage etc. .

        • +1 It’s a case of one flawed law leading to another flawed law. We have pitted sexual liberty against religious liberty. One issue I have with this law is that it leaves the decision of undue burden and compelling interest in the control of a judge. That could work bad for either party. I don’t accept that judges are not biased.

  10. It is true that the CCO is advocating abandoning religious freedom, guaranteed by the Constitution and Civil rights act, in favor of special rights that do not exist in law. If your outcome is achieved the owner of the bakery will be forced to provide a cake depicting a homosexual wedding violating their deeply held religious convictions. Meanwhile, they could deny to provide a cake for my, your, or practically anyone else without using this or any other religious exemption. Mob rule.
    You applaud Apple computer, who makes more profit than any other business on the planet, most of which is derived at the expense of American workers who are bypassed in favor of Chinese workers who are paid practically nothing and live in one of the most repressive places on earth. And you applaud Apple’s and other businesses advocating boycotting Indiana. Aren’t boycotts discrimination?

    • I don’t applaud apple for anything. They’re a slave holding company. Baking a cake for a gay wedding does not mean you must become gay. I think the bigger concern is not your example but the wide possibilities this law introduces. So called religious freedom has been used as justification many time for whites only signs. You OK with my religious right to smoke pot? I doubt it. Like all republicans, you’re a hypocrite.

      • Not baking a cake does NOT deny homosexuals the right to have a wedding cake. Go to another bakery. No problem. Would you advocate forcing the baker to make the cake depicting a homosexual wedding?
        When was religious freedom cited to refuse service to blacks? And you do have a right to smoke dope for religious purposes, if you can prove that’s the reason. In fact, that’s the reason for the 1993 RFRA. It’s been used successfully to defend peyote use by Indians, an Indian arrested for possessing eagle feathers, and a Muslim prisoner wanting to keep his beard.
        And in the spirit of your name calling, like most dems, you don’t have a clue.

    • Funny how Apple has not boycotted countries that execute homosexuals but will a state that protects religious liberty.

      • I am happy that Apple stands up for these protections in their own country, thank you.

        • And happy that the don’t stand against executing homosexuals in other countries.

          • ….boy, you sure do sound like a liberal with a comment like that. Corporations have limited capabilities to manage the affairs of foreign countries.

            But in their OWN country? Yes. Stand up and fight with your resources, your pocketbook and your speech and take out the abominable practices of the extremists. THAT is what Apple is doing w/ the RFRA and it’s backers…….and THAT is a terrific and admirable thing.

      • IE, They are comfortable paying low wages in dismal third world factories to make their products also. But when the cameras come on they get on their high horse.

  11. Word has reached the West Coast that Old National Bank’s Bob Jones confessed during his testimony that he had worked for three years to find a private investor in the downtown hotel and could not even find one. That same friendly mole sais he also stated that the naming rights to the Centre were worthless to ONB because they already have such broad brand recognition. This all begs the question of just how ONB can make an equity investment in the hotel when literally no one else will without running into opposition from its own shareholders. I am glad that I do not own any ONB stock if their metric for investing is that first everyone they know has to say no before they invest in equity. Actually the idea of a bank investing in a hotel for equity doesn’t sound like a good idea period.

    • Joe
      I wonder if the City has somehow promised ONB an equitable return on their investment.
      (outside conventional – overt means)
      Is this possible? Would it be sneagal? …

    • Joe,

      If there is any actual ONB equity in the way it is structured, I’d be surprised…..but if there is, there have to be all kinds of preferences and/or an exit clause on refinancing with a significant bump. When the IU Medical goes hard, this will be done.

    • Joe, you answered my question from the other day, if there was enough ROI for ONB to invest $10 million.

    • If Bob Jones knew the naming rights to The Centre were worthless, and he kept forging ahead under that ruse, isn’t Mr. Jones guilty of both fraud and lying to public officials ???

      Why does ONB keep this joker ? Lots of talented bank CEO’s out there . . .

    • Bob Jones did not wake up one morning as the guy in charge of ONB. It took a lot of hard work and a little luck to get in that position. I think he is doing an educated bet to come for an ROI on his investment. IF the Ford Center gets it’s act together, gambling moves inland and the medical school arrives and ONB owns a lot of downtown property, it may be a good gamble. Plus there’s a lot of money out there that is not working, got to do something with it. I think the hotel will go back to the original big plan. Folks like Jones are looking 10 years down the road where a lot of us can’t see past 90 days. The Ford Center didn’t seem like a good idea a couple of months ago and now the CCO reports it’s booming.

  12. Pence and his flawed legislature’s new law was designed to assuage some of the hurt their bigoted base feels with the coming of marriage equality. Pence blamed the press for misrepresenting it, a disingenuous dodge considering the law and critical analyses of it are but a keystroke away. It seems it’s the usual bull Christians, always playing the martyr, always feeling put upon, always wanting to march a cross, that object the loudest and stupidest. They are feeling the sting of having one of the last groups they can legally discriminate against pulled out from under them. There is no sense in trying to put a good face on it, they are simply bigots. Pence has been left with little choice but to try to ameliorate the mess he’s made. If the ‘fix’ isn’t satisfactory, which seems likely, he will continue to come under fire as well he should. He will persist in trying to spread the wave of opprobrium to the state and its people when the problem is his, a common tactic from a bully/coward. ☛ Don’t forget that Ron Bacon, Wendy McNamara and Holli Sullivan voted for this abomination. Same trio that announced that they wouldn’t be participating in any debates in advance of the last election. We are beginning to see why. No telling what else they’ve got in store for Indiana.☚

    Those who would deny marriage rights to gay folks have lost. They refuse to acknowledge that, much as they refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of Obama’s presidency. These laws are a reflection of their tribal inability to get along. An atavistic reversion to their Neanderthal mindset. They do as they do, run and hide behind their Bibles. They’ve tried to justify torture using the same book sprinkled with a dose of their twisted interpretation of it. They have cheapened their religion. True Christians wouldn’t know them.

    If these folks want public policy to reflect their prejudices, it is time to put the church properties on the tax rolls. Those that can’t make it in the free market will get to shutter their doors. What could be fairer? Or more overdue?
    ~~~
    Missy Mosby is a fool. It is way past time to vote her off the council, make her run for city-wide office if she wants to keep feeding at the public trough. Evansville deserves better than her. Better yet, let’s make her the face of the Winnecke administration.

  13. THIS is how bad it is getting for the Christian extremists and Gov Pence:

    From NASCAR……….“NASCAR is disappointed by the recent legislation passed in Indiana.”

    The bigots want to burn the State down. I mean, “NASCAR Decries Indiana Anti-Gay Law”. And when NASCAR calls you a bigot, you are a freaking bigot.”

  14. Heavy rain on the way, really heavy for anyone’s outdated combined sewers, “may the CSO flow is how that goes” for the old downtown Evansville’s infrastructure . Don’t ever drive into flash flooding stream overflows. Really if an intersection is in CSO all the stuff splashed on the automobile is pure combined sewage. Wash the car before you park it in your garage.

    http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=INZ086&warncounty=INC163&firewxzone=INZ086&local_place1=Evansville%20Regional%20Airport%20IN&product1=Hydrologic+Outlook&lat=38.0384&lon=-87.5273#.VRv5EPnF-W4

    • The only good thing about heavy rains is that they help flush out the sewers. The down side is that it all has to go into the Ohio River (drinking source of water for millions of people downstream)

      • More climate news, more thermodynamic energy another monster storm is churning up the Pacific realm. Awful early for that kind of energy right now. Deniers are holding up solutions and the whole planet pays the price. Tough case for California’s legacy agribusiness. as well. One note the solution our group is honing now will meet all standards and expectations for a viable plan. Its loads of data being compiled daily and the models show steady progress in turning down the thermodynamic energy dial. We’re concluding the affect this plan will have on climate migrations will allow mankind to level the numbers and turn the dial down by a tremendous percentage in the next fifty years.
        We have to get the systems up as soon as possible now to begin the fix.

        http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/01/asia/super-typhoon-maysak/index.html

  15. With Obama as Commander-in-Chief, every day seems like April Fools day. Here is an excellent summary of Obama’s disastrous foreign policy (to the United States and its traditional allies):

    “In a statement today, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded to the ongoing nuclear talks with Iran.

    “Yesterday an Iranian general brazenly declared and I quote: ‘Israel’s destruction is non-negotiable’, but evidently giving Iran’s murderous regime a clear path to the bomb is negotiable. This is unconscionable. I agree with those who have said that Iran’s claim that its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes doesn’t square with Iran’s insistence on keeping underground nuclear facilities, advanced centrifuges and a heavy water reactor. Nor does it square with Iran’s insistence on developing ICBMs and its refusal to come clean with the IAEA on its past weaponization efforts. At the same time, Iran is accelerating its campaign of terror, subjugation and conquest throughout the region, most recently in Yemen,”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bibi-iran-says-israels-destruction-non-negotiable_905781.html

    And then we have Obama as President engaged in disastrous economic policy (for the United States anyway) by actively encouraging immigrants, including illegals, to try to unionize US businesses to help them get US visas and legal status:

    “The federal government has signed agreements with three foreign countries — Mexico, Ecuador and the Philippines — to establish outreach programs to teach immigrants their rights to engage in labor organizing in the U.S.

    The agreements do not distinguish between those who entered legally or illegally. They are part of a broader effort by the National Labor Relations Board to get immigrants involved in union activism.
    …

    A 2013 board press release stated the Mexican agreement was “an outgrowth of initial negotiations between the NLRB’s Chicago office and the Mexican Consulate in Chicago. The framework has been used by other federal labor agencies, including the Department of Labor and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which have similar agreements with the Mexican Embassy and its consulates.”

    The release quoted Solomon saying, “With coordination from the consulates, we expect to meet with Mexican workers around the country to help forge innovative solutions to issues specific to their needs.”

    Last month, Griffin instituted a new policy in which the board will “facilitate” obtaining visas for illegal immigrants if their status impedes it from pursuing a labor violation case against a business. The policy gives illegal immigrants living in the U.S. a strong incentive to engage in labor activism, because doing so will make employers reluctant to fire them and potentially get them a visa, and therefore legal status, if they are fired.”

    A 2013 board press release stated the Mexican agreement was “an outgrowth of initial negotiations between the NLRB’s Chicago office and the Mexican Consulate in Chicago. The framework has been used by other federal labor agencies, including the Department of Labor and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which have similar agreements with the Mexican Embassy and its consulates.”

    The release quoted Solomon saying, “With coordination from the consulates, we expect to meet with Mexican workers around the country to help forge innovative solutions to issues specific to their needs.”

    Last month, Griffin instituted a new policy in which the board will “facilitate” obtaining visas for illegal immigrants if their status impedes it from pursuing a labor violation case against a business. The policy gives illegal immigrants living in the U.S. a strong incentive to engage in labor activism, because doing so will make employers reluctant to fire them and potentially get them a visa, and therefore legal status, if they are fired.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-signed-agreement-with-mexico-to-teach-immigrants-to-unionize/article/2562215

    Very sad and strange times we (the United States) are now in.

  16. For the Governor of Indiana to be subjected to grilling by George Stephanopoulos on the subject of “discrimination” is pathetic.
    Here’s the guy who was Hillary Clinton’s field general in the war against the women who dared tell the truth about Bill. And he won every battle for Hillary (destroyed the women) until——- Monica kept the dress.
    And he’s now a network star making mega bucks preaching to our Governor about “discrimination”.

    • COMMONSENSE….and he’s right. Pence looked terrible. He is embarrassing the entire State.

      He’s become the new Sarah Palin…….driving away independent and educated GOP voters who have had enough of this crap.

      James Carville always says “MORE SARAH PALIN! MORE COWBELL!!”

      Loves her. Loves the crap and ideas that come out of her mouth.

      And how he’s saying, “THANK YOU GOD FOR MIKE PENCE AND THE IDIOTS IN INDIANA!!”

      You know when the Indiana Business Community says you need to get your sh** together and stop this crap…you know you’ve gone too far.

      • The screeching of the flaming liberals is always sweet music to my ears and Quarkiee screeches the loudest, but his lyrics lack wisdom. They rather scream juvenile ignorance, don’t they?

        Reminds me of when my preschool children would throw tantrums to get their way. That didn’t work, either.

        • It’s over. You lost the culture wars. Your generation will die soon enough and we’ll look back at you the same way we look back at those who fought for their right to ban interracial marriage.

          • Ghost. Not so fast. Barring Interracial marriage is prohibited by the civil rights ac of 1964. Where in that act is defining marriage as between one man and one woman prohibited?

          • Wow. So well said.

            It really is over.

            And the fight you see going on by the RFRA advocates hoping to keep in place a law allowing legal discrimination against gay people? They are fighting the LAST battle on this one. And the reason folks here are so apoplectic over this (disaffected is inverting, if you couldn’t tell…not one attempt to make his case w/ that crap)…

            ….they KNOW it’s the last battle.

            Joad…..is right. It’s over.

          • Faith is not genetic and will not die with our generation or any other. Jesus said, “I tell you, if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” Homosexuality, however, must be genetic as most homosexuals say they’ve been homosexual from birth. It seems clear that it is homosexuality that will be dying out as homosexuals do not have the ability to procreate in the parameters of their sexual activities.

          • Ghost, I must agree. It appears we have lost the culture war but please tell me how it is preferable for a culture for child molestation to be rampant? Why is it better for prepubescent girls to become so sexualized that they’ve come to believe if you are not sexy, you have no value? How is culture enhanced when 70% of black children are born out of wedlock and have no strong male presence in their lives? Is it a sign of a superior culture when people are not expected to take care of themselves and their families? Respect for authority and for other people is a thing of the past but how is that an improvement for the culture? How does it elevate a culture to have no respect for human life? I know black lives matter but someone should tell blacks that as the vast majority of murders among the black population are committed by other blacks. The idea of, “I want it and I’m taking it” whether it be money, someone’s identity, sex, or someone’s life, is so pervasive it’s as if any semblance or morality and civility have been cast away. Is that really for the best?

          • The cultural war is not lost, it’s just relocated. Some things are not worth fighting for, just move away from it. Vanderburgh county is a good example, the city is dying the county is growing, liberals that can move because they want the quality of life enjoyed by conservatives. Quality of life is the community. The dual income families with 2 or less children with thrive and maintain the culture. Only those 60 or older have real knowledge of a ban against interracial marriage, those younger have only read the revised junk written by those 40 or less who got their information from research articles written by researchers. Pence and Indiana will survive this, never thought Pence would be president but he’ll be governor again, just like Winnecke will be mayor again just like the democrats promised him.

        • Good comparison, dis. My suggestion to Pence is: call a news conference saying he’s going to dispel all controversy. Then, STAND THERE AND READ THE BILL. Then invite all to point out what part of the bill their scurrilous charges are based on.
          Unfortunately, it seems as though he’s like most other Republicans these days. When faced with the mob, they join them.

        • Oh here comes the Screeching Right WINGNUTS out from under their troll bridge again. Crying that the Religious Right is being persecuted again. It’s time to get your little tin hats on boys and girls when disaffected shows up in here. Put your ear plugs in so you don’t have to listen to his BS.

      • Right about what, quark? Right to destroy the lives of victims of Bill Clinton who dared to tell the truth about him? Right to encourage discrimination against Indiana?
        And James Carville, who attacked the same women with his slurs. These are who you listen to?
        But it is refreshing to see your newfound respect for big business and the Chamber.
        Just curious. Do you think government should force a baker to supply a cake to a customer in a manner he feels violates his religious convictions? Should they be allowed to refuse to provide me with a cake simply, say, because they don’t like my looks?

  17. WASHINGTON — Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) said on Wednesday he would not yet sign a controversial religious freedom act into law, requesting that the state legislature make changes to the bill in the wake of criticism that the legislation could be used to facilitate discrimination against LGBT citizens and other groups.

    • Whoa! That is excellent.

      The Indiana RFRA backers acted foolishly and have placed a removable mark of Cain on the State of Indiana.

    • Thank goodness, we have a strong, moral governor, eh? Arkansas has a history of weak executives, don’t they?

  18. Hutchinson said at a press conference that he was seeking changes to make Arkansas’ legislation mirror the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act signed by former President Bill Clinton in 1993.

    • Then it won’t have the same language that section 8 and section 9 of Indiana’s legislation has in it.

  21. Quark, you may have lost this question in all the post, so I am asking it again.

    I hear there is work being done to clarify that this law will not allow for Jim Crow laws. Will the satisfy your objections, or will you still demand that Christians be forced to be involved in same sex weddings at the request of the couple?

    • I-E, until the formal addition is proposed, I don’t have any idea or comment.

      Early this morning, THIS was posted by Stonedreamer….and it is ALL that is needed:

      “The solution to this problem is obvious. Make sexual orientation a protected civil right. The governor’s refusal to consider this tells it all.”

      As far as your other comment, if someone is performing a marriage and is licensed by the State to do so, they have to follow the law, even if that law goes against a personal belief. If they want to opt out of the marriage business, that’s their choice. But they can’t ignore the law I-E. (The Christian Warren Jeffs does things like that.)

      If the clarification provides civil rights protection to sexual orientation, I think that fixes it.

      Simple enough.

      • QD, “if someone is performing a marriage and is licensed by the State to do so, they have to follow the law, even if that law goes against a personal belief. ”

        And there you have it. Your opposition is that you want to see those who oppose same sex marriage being forced to perform same sex weddings. You want protection for sexual liberty, but not religious liberty. You want government to dictate what religion must do which is in every sense government establishing religion. You don’t want protection of sexual orientation, you want the predominance of sexual liberty, which is not in the constitution, over religious liberty, which is in the constitution.

        • …..Bubba did his best to try to explain this to you I-E. He did a GREAT job. It didn’t’ hit home.

          The fact is, all faiths encounter conflicts in their daily life….be it with government or otherwise….that do not jibe well with that person’s religious beliefs. And so, as a result, their faith is a personal matter not to be extended into other’s lives, including the life of government. I don’t need to remind you about “render unto Caesar.”

          But this conflict you have encountered…..because you have the conflict….you are somehow manipulating it into to this idea of “government established religion” in order to get your personal beliefs into the government.

          Bubba tried to tell you. You have to be comfortable with your own faith. (Other faiths with equally determined ideas of right and wrong, co-exist with you….you should extend the same courtesy. Cause you have a conflict that you can’t resolve. I get that.)

          • Quark, I get what you and Bubba are saying, that people should be forced by the government to participate in events which violate their religion. I disagree.

            I am comfortable in my faith. I am not comfortable with the government telling me I must violate my faith or suffer the consequences when it has no compelling interest to do so. This is not a conflict of my faith, it is a conflict with my government.

            Sexual liberty should not outweigh religious liberty. Why must I coexist with other ideas of faith but they not coexist with mine?

            This is not the government saying what I can not do, it is telling me what I must do. If the government tells me that I must violate my religion, then it has indeed established a religion.

          • I-E,

            Nope, you’re dismissing an option.

            Assuming the Fix that extends protection to sexual orientation, then those who provide a service on behalf of the state have no right to discriminate on that civil right, beliefs-in-or-not, they have to follow the law. The law is the law regardless of our personally held beliefs.

            But you say the gov’t is forcing you to do this against your will

            That’s not accurate. No one’s forcing you,

            1. ……but if you provide this licensed service, you have to follow the law

            or

            2. You can opt out of the licensed position with the State and not perform any marriages on behalf of the State.

            You know this, but you had to make me write it all out, but you’ve always done that. (It’s your way of making the guy make his case w/ no loopholes in this logic.)

          • QD, I read your explanation and it is still sounds like one is forced to choose between violating his religion or losing his livelihood.

            What you are offering is protection for sexual liberty but not for religious liberty.

            We lose a lot when we say sexual it can’t be offended but spirituality can be.

  22. Quark. If you come into my place of business should I be required to provide you with a service outside my business property? Or, for that matter, inside it?

    • I guess Quark has left the building. Probably has to change into a different screen name.

      • Indiana Enoch:

        Ha! NO-ONE is gonna leave this alone until it is FORMALLY changed to include sexual orientation as a protected civil right.

        It very well may formally divide the Christian extremists from the Republican Party. Because the GOP will never go forward with this abomination of denying sexual orientation civil right protection around it’s neck.

        The Republican Party thought it was past this……….UNTIL people like you brought it back up.

        INDIANA ENOCH, you did that to find out if you needed to break away from the GOP.

        You do.

        • What names have you posted under before?

          Should religion also be a protected civil right?

          I could care less about any party. I am Christian and conservative.

          • I-E,

            There was a time when I thought the Riverfront and the downtown development was an important issue in local development. I think that ship has sailed. Downtown won as it should have.

            I like this name. It has character.

            Freedom to practice your personal religion should be a protected right. But the practice of has to be legal under the law. I accept that.

            And you…..and a lot of other Christian Conservatives are finding out the Republican Party is not your home. The GOP will eventually back sexual orientation as a protected right. The Christian candidates will form their own Party. You’ll vote for them, I get that.

          • I like the name. I have not appreciated some of the implications you have made. Your one sided idea of liberty only causes greater rifts. What is truly gained by forcing someone to participate in something which violates their faith?

          • IE, your first sentence gave me a “Wayne Parke”
            flashback from a year ago. I hope you were not
            using different names back then!!!!!!!!!

          • INDIANA ENOCH:

            Look, I do empathize. I have family members with the same disposition. I don’t clearly understand same-sex relationships probably similarly as you. But, I know deep in my heart I must accept this, that it is right. It is moral. They are genuine people entitled to unfettered happiness AND ACCEPTANCE in all ways, and I do not accept that they should be treated as second-class citizens. Somehow, i think you twist that to say, “Well, I don’t have to be second-class citizen either. It’s them or me.” And I’m sorry…..I do not share that belief. I’m religious, perhaps more than even you, and I accept it, as I do many things that I do not necessarily understand. My faith is my business. I see and feel disapproval everyday and can opt out. I do not Lord it over anyone, that is not right. And especially not government. But my happiness, in this case, and I believe in your case, does not need to be had at the expense of others happiness being infringed upon by being treated as second-class citizens. And I do honestly believe a person should never be discriminated against or kept from service based strictly on another person’s disapproval of their sexual preference, even if it is held religiously. Sexual orientation should be a protected civil right. Discrimination in that form should be illegal, precisely because it is moral and right.

          • …and my reference to family members sharing the same “disposition” I meant they do not approve of gay marriage. It is not a comment about their sexual orientation.

          • Quark. They can call it the Christian Right Wing Nut Gay hating party. I wonder how many votes that will get from the independents? 🙂

    • The only thing you have to do C-S, is follow the law.

      The RFRA law, as it is written currently provides no protection from discrimination based on a citizen’s sexual orientation, and if that is added to State law, then it will be illegal to make a decision to deny service based solely on that civil right criteria (no different than it is to deny service to someone based on skin color or ethnicity).

      • NOTHING about this has ever been complicated.

        The advocates of this want to be able to exclude citizens – legally – based on their sexual orientation.

        They claim it is their religious right to do so. But even religious people have to follow the law….SO….they are trying to put a law in place that allows them to do that.

        It’s not gonna work. This will STAY on the burner WITH BUSINESS KEEPING IT THERE until sexual orientation is added to the list of protected civil rights.

        • What are they being excluded from? From a particular person planning their wedding, baking their cake, performing the ceremony?

          You’re not talking about sexual orientation being a civil right. Heterosexuality is a sexual orientation. You are talking about making homosexuality a protected civil right. Make homosexuality sexuality a protected right and the problem gets even worse.

          Pence needs to stand back, let the screaming stop, and wait for the opponents to go home. It’s as good as the law can get.

          • I-E,

            Wait a minute.

            No, you are mistaken. Sexual orientation as a protected civil right ALSO means homosexuals cannot discriminate against heterosexuals. That’s why the term is “sexual orientation.” THIS is one of the principal reasons there is so much confusion

            (and a lot of people will say, “But it’s the same thing.” No, it is not the same thing. Those people have a problem with gay people, because they are gay, like others have a problem with black people, because they are black.)

            I-E……..At some point several decades ago…..when encountering a mixed race couple…..people eventually stopped reacting with “But I don’t get it. Why would you marry someone out of your race?” They stopped thinking that because they had begun to accept it doesn’t matter….it only matters what that COUPLE wants…and they want to be married. The same change has already happened with the Millenials, i.e., the younger kids. They see older people with a problem with gay marriage and CANNOT figure out why they would even care. They accept that it doesn’t matter. It only matters what that couple wants.

          • Quark. One day all the old fart Gay haters will die of from natural causes and the millennials will be in charge.

          • That’s your solution? One day you will also die and what you call hate will be replaced with another hate.

      • Well, finally. You admit homosexuals have no right constitutional or legal right to force anyone to provide them with a service. I have said that since the beginning of the extremist homosexual movement to overturn the definition of marriage. For that I have been called everything from bigot to Nazi by those who demand I understand homosexuals already have the same special rights as blacks, women, religious, and others mentioned in civil rights laws for special protection. They don’t. So how can a baker be forced to provide them with a “wedding cake?” (or anything else)
        The accurate term is sexual preference. Try and get it added to civil rights laws. I will be opposed. Let the debate begin.
        Meanwhile, our southern border is being over run again (still), Iran is getting nuclear weapons, and dems are worried about Indiana cake bakers.

        • COMMONSENSE…..the debate is OVER.

          You’re not paying attention. Sexual orientation is going to be added as a protected civil right. Can you not see nearly the ENTIRE Indiana Business Community attacking this law because it allows discrimination of citizens based on their sexual orientation?

          It’s already over. Even most of the GOP leadership, business supporters and donors support the protection of gay people from discrimination.

          The Christian Republicans?

          YEP. They are gonna break away and form another party, because the GOP supports this change. It is why Pence is backing up, C-S.

          The Christian Right forced this issue to see if they were being taken seriously. They’re getting their answer.

          • Hell I just got back home and this is still going on even after Jeb Bush said he is rethinking his IMAGE and policy at this time over this new Indiana Gay Persecution Law. Even Jeb Bush is admitting that the IN law is wrong for IN and it’s a wrong signal for the Country.

            This issue reminds me of the Romney comments about the 47% people. Those type of thoughts are best done in private and behind closed doors with only Radical Right Wingers (Wingnuts) in the room. All other sane people are to be kept out and in the dark about how the right wing Rich Repugnant really think about the rest of the people until the election is over. After all the Wingnuts think that the peon’s have short memories and will forget all the said to get election. Once the election is over they will have their way and repress he people as much as they can get by with.

  23. While the main stream media focuses on Indiana’s RFRA modeled after the Federal law implemented by president Clinton and the Illinois RFRA that then State Senator Obama voted for, Obama still is desperate for a signed concession with the radical Iranian Mulluahs:

    “Limited though it may be, the administration’s negotiation with Iran has shaken traditional allies such as Israel and Saudi Arabia. Meanwhile, through its action and inaction elsewhere in the Middle East, the U.S. has left both friends and enemies uncertain about what it will do next.

    “I think we’ve been reactive,” said David Rothkopf, editor of Foreign Policy. “I don’t see a strategy. I think we’re sort of back on our heels and not quite sure what to do.”

    Rothkopf argues that Iran has capitalized on the administration’s hands-off approach to the Middle East, expanding its influence from Syria to Yemen.

    “The Middle East has never been as dangerous as it is right now. And that’s saying something since the Middle East has been dangerous for a long time,” Rothkopf said.

    The White House insists a nuclear deal with Iran would defuse the biggest threat to the region.

    The Wilson Center’s Miller agreed a negotiated deal that stops or even stalls Iran’s nuclear program is preferable to the likely alternative of military action. But he dismisses as wishful thinking any expectation that Iran’s diplomatic rehabilitation will produce a new, more stable Middle East.

    “Perhaps in a galaxy far, far away, that is a possibility,” Miller said. “I don’t see that happening now.”

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2015/03/31/396636913/obamas-diplomatic-gamble-on-iran-adding-instability-in-middle-east

        • Ah but Ghost doesn’t have to waste his time telling you right wing nuts to buzz off. He has much better things to do with his precious time and energy. Why waste too much energy on you babies.

    • Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse, here’s the latest from the Community Organizer to allow children of illegal aliens into the US at the sole expense of the American taxpayer (an endangered species without any protection):

      “Under the new initiative the administration has rebranded the official name it originally assigned to the droves of illegal immigrant minors who continue sneaking into the U.S. They’re no longer known as Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC), a term that evidently was offensive and not politically correct enough for the powerful open borders movement. The new arrivals will be officially known as Central American Minors (CAM) and they will be eligible for a special refugee/parole that offers a free one-way flight to the U.S. from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras. The project is a joint venture between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the State Department.

      Specifically, the “program provides certain children in El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras with a safe, legal, and orderly alternative to the dangerous journey that some children are undertaking to the United States,” according to a DHS memo obtained by JW this week. The document goes on to say that the CAM program has started accepting applications from “qualifying parents” to bring their offspring under the age of 21 from El Salvador, Guatemala or Honduras. The candidates will then be granted a special refugee parole, which includes many taxpayer-funded perks and benefits. Among them is a free education, food stamps, medical care and living expenses.

      During a special teleconference this week officials from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and the State Department explained how CAM will work. Only “friendly” groups and individuals invited by the government were allowed to participate and the event was not open to the media.”
      …
      A State Department official promoted CAM as a “family reunification” program that will be completely funded by American taxpayers, though the official claimed to have no idea what the cost will be.

      http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/04/dhs-launches-family-reunification-refugee-program-for-central-americans/

      Maybe Obama thinks he’s the President of Central America giving away free 1 way flights to the US where the children of Central American illegals ( aka “undocumented Democrats”) can then enjoy “free” education, food stamps, medical care and living expenses. Unbelievable!

      • Joe. Another stellar report. This really does add insult to injury. I remember when your namesake travelled to Guatemala to make this announcement. Most thought he was kidding.
        WHERE’S THE OUTRAGE? Oh. It’s being vented on religious freedom advocates.

        • commonsense, the damage Barack Hussein Obama and his socialist policies are doing to the United States and world security is mind boggling. I fear for our children’s future unless we finally get a real leader as our President. Hopefully it won’t be too late.

  24. Main street Evansville. “The boulevard of broken dreams” poor fools they haven’t figured out how to create the mix yet. Suppose you all will get slapped in the tax rolls again for some cronies consulting firms antiquated take on the current valuation problem’s. Heck our group would donate our licensed solutions if we could get a anti patronage guarantee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_YF2mtpXQg

    • Hell, watch this old killer mix. Evansville has the mix however its always suppressed as usual. Normally by the “furrier and suppressed” rag printed biological toxic carbons incursion. This is why your town stinks so danged much, patronage garbage hits the political stage the stage there, as a common denominator. Fix that and you just might prosper again.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qpM2wSD7BA

    • Only thing that will begin to save Main Street is to start by tearing down the Civic Center Complex and reconnecting Main Street to North Main. But that would be too simple of a fix for those intelligent minds that occupy the 3rd floor of the Civic Center.
      Sort of like understanding that you don’t run one-way streets (nothing wrong with one-ways if properly designed) into two-way streets or close down a major traffic route with egress into, through, and out of downtown (Riverside Drive) for every little piddlywink downtown event!

  25. All the comments between early morning and 5 p.m. was a shame. Beautiful 70+ day and you spend your time on these petty arguements. Get out in the world.

      • Hey “V” that’s a good likeness of Cowboy. The only thing good in that picture is the hat and that’s not even a good cowboy hat. Keep up the good work V. It’s fun to feed the trolls a little sour lemons once in a while.

      • V, What you smoke or ingest isn’t the same as getting out in the sun and fresh air.

    • The light was not right for photography and some of us are Mobile. Translation to the bumpkins in here Points to Cowboy… a setting sun give the best type of light for excellent pictures and photographs. And I did more work outside to day than you did the entire last week.

      Cowboy who appointed you guardian of the forest and who gave you the authority to tell anyone what to do? You are not the boss so sit down buy and shut up!

      • Move, Check the times you posted on this day. How do you know what i did last week ? Are you still stalking me ? Maybe someday the editor will read what you post.

  26. I wonder what would be the reaction from the gay community if bakeries stopped baking wedding cakes period? Inquiring minds would like to know.

  27. If a bakery puts a sign in the window that says “we no longer bake wedding cakes” can a gay couple force said bakery to bake one? Inquiring minds want to know.

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