Make all the evidence public just redact names. Also, there were widely disseminated photos from fox news and other outlets of a guy who was all beat up. Turns out those photos were of some guy who had a motocross accident in 2006. The photos I saw of Wilson’s face from right after the incident had him looking pretty healthy.
What officer Wilson did was legal, but like a lot of things in life that does not make it right.
I bet Officer Wilson didn’t get his jollies killing that man-it is a terrible thing to take a person’s life.
These things I know:
if someone breaks into your house knowing you’re there, they are prepared to kill you.
if I physically harm a policeman, he’s going to use whatever force he has to to stop me, because he has to assume that if I refuse to cooperate, I am prepared to kill him.
if a policeman has a gun on me and tells me to stop or he will shoot? I will stop, because he will shoot me.
I am sorry for Mr. Brown’s family. They aren’t just harmed by their son’s bad actions, a cop’s last resort, they are also victims of national media on a feeding frenzy.
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect
Dred Scott decision
The facts are the facts, accept the verdict and move on.
The actions of the “protesters” should be met with greater force. If they want to turn the streets into a war zone send in the National Guard. They are looting,burning the flag, ddestroying private and public property and shooting at people. If the American people ever needed to be protected from a terrorist movement, now is that time.
We are no longer dealing with peaceful protesters trying to convey a message, we are dealing with thugs, terrorist and society’s trash taking advantage of an already bad situation.
Good jod, no one hears your message, they only see your stupidity.
And here I was worried that the Post Police wouldn’t show up and add absolutely nothing to the discussion.
That You for being you. 🙂
I agree with the comment about using greater force.
Looting and Setting buildings on Fire as the Avenue to achieve the Goals, and Needs of Ferguson the City,—– or Ferguson the Community–is —————. (fill in the blank -your choice.)
Agreed, but that still doesn’t excuse a lot of problems they’re trying to protest.
The only “problems” are with the community itself. Teach you children, respect for themselves and authority, teach them how to support themselves and their families legally and teach them that they need to accept responsibility for the actions and 99% of the “problems they’re trying to protest” will be resolved.
Looting is not protesting.
Can you read?
Yes, I read a “but.”
Without the Facts privileged to the Grand Jury, we ALL have to rely on their judgment in digesting that information, and reaching a decision based on their conclusions as to the “Why” this death happened..
I respect their decision for a Non- indictment of Officer Wilson.
The Media may very well”try” him anyway as the Circus of what ifs, and buts, will keep the flames burning and dollars flowing their way.
The question concerns the precipitating incident, the failure to indict a rotten cop. You are trying to deflect attention from that fact to a racially-charged condemnation of a small group of people who use the occasion to loot and burn. The truth is that you don’t ever miss an opportunity to voice your dislike of people with darker skin than yours.
Why is the officer rotten without opinion?
Do you condone the looting and burning?
Would you condone your premises to the burning and looting without remorse?
He had already been on one police force that was found to be so corrupt that it was disbanded. He demonstrated a cowardice by the number of shots he fired.
I’m pretty sure that if you read my post, you know the answer to you second and third questions, but no, of course I don’t condone burning and choose to live where such a thing is highly unlikely.
Just respectfully asking, is your first sentence any evidence in this case? Does association of “past actions” get reintroduced into a current trial?
So, since the Jennings, Missouri, police force was disbanded due to internal corruption; does that mean every officer is to be “tarred with the same brush”? That city is now protected by the St. Louis County Police – many of whom are former Jennings police officers. There is no “cowardice” exhibited, when there is a threat you keep firing until the threat is removed. I’m familiar with an instance where a man the size of Mr. Brown was shot at least a dozen times – in center of mass, not in an arm – and was still approaching the officer. A single shot with a .22 can be fatal and yet ten rounds of .40 can sometimes only cause “superficial” injuries.
moonpup, wonder if a blood test was done on the decease that would indicate anything that would had created a more of a ‘superman” action then normal?
This is in response to Armstrongres, although Moonpup has already done a good job illuminating this subject.
“moonpup, wonder if a blood test was done on the decease that would indicate anything that would had created a more of a ‘superman†action then normal?”
It is a fact well hidden by Hollywood (where a pistol shot typically sends the person flying end-over-end with blood spraying in all directions, killing them instantly), that pistol rounds are really poor ‘man-stoppers’. It is not uncommon for a person to take multiple hits with service caliber (9mm, .40, .45) hangun and be able to continue fighting. I have personally seen numerous gunshot wounds, including a man who was shot in the gut with 4, .40 JHP and walked out of the hospital later with no complications. He was a big man, and in the immediate aftermath of the shooting he would have been fully capable of hurting me badly if he had a mind too., despite his wounds.
My take away is that you don’t need to be high on drugs or rage or some other extenuating factor for a pistol to not kill you. That can exacerbate the reaction, but regardless of sobriety or mental status a person that is hit directly in the heart with a pistol round may still have 30 seconds of hard fighting left in them before blood loss and shock shut them down. That is why LE is trained to shoot until the threat is stopped, and it is not ‘cowardice’ to pull the trigger 10 times if the threat is still present after the 9th shot.
Mr. Brown was a big man, young and healthy and obviously no stranger to using that size and strength aggressively (as noted in the convenience store robbery). I would have been far more surprised if it had only taken one or two shots to stop him then I am that it took 10.
Delta, I wasn’t debating the number of shots. One hears of someone being on something that causes greater aggression or strength then normal. That’s where I was going.
I take exception to your statement “the failure to indict a rotten cop,” it may well be your opinion that he was but the facts don’t bear this out. By all accounts he was an average police officer with enough time on the job to be effective and to expose any propensity toward violence. I think that you are impugning the integrity and ability of the 12 people on the grand jury who, after seeing the evidence presented, decided not to indict.
Concur.
I also agree. Officer Wilson did his job and was forced to shoot the Big and very strong (6’6″ and 280 lbs) kid as the kid bull rushed the officer after he hit the officer in the face with his fists several times and tried to get the officers gun earlier in this confrontation.
The kid was a wanted felon who had just recently conducted a strong armed robber of store. Ironically the same store that was looted last night and burned down.
When you play with fire you often get burned.
I fully support the officer. It’s just too bad that the officer didn’t have a body camera on him to document what Michael Brown did in the two or three minutes after running into the Officer.
I do think that people Like Al Sharpton are way out of line and need to shut the hell up. Al is wrong to believe that justice was not done. Al talks about the prosecutor not prosecuting but IMHO the perp was not Officer Wilson but instead it was Michael Brown Jr. He was the one that robbed the store and he was the one that was attacking a Police Officer. Officer Wilson was there to arrest Michael Brown for strong armed robbery and was trying to wait for back up to make the arrest as the kid was too big to handle by himself. The kid was 6’6″ tall and weighted 280 lbs and Officer Wilson was only 6’2″ and much smaller. If the kid had not attacked the officer inside the police car and cause the officers gun to discharge nearly killing the officer then he would be alive today and sitting in a jail cell where he belonged. But no he has to fight with a police officer and try to get the gun and then after running away returns to bull rush and try to hurt the police officer even though the officer had his gun out. Most people would have stopped but this kid was too damn stupid or mean to stop so he was shot and killed.
And last night his step dad was shouting to the crowd of protesters in Ferguson Missouri to burn it down. He also should be arrested and charged with inciting a riot. And they need to make the news media turn over all their video to the police. The video will clearly show people looting the same store that Michael Brown Robbed before. They all should be charged and jailed. This type os bs should never be allowed to happen again.
I agree with one of the posters above. Use more force to subdue those that try to use force to steal and rob. Why sit back and not shoot these terrorists? I say send in the 101 st and police the city until people get back to being calm. People should not get away with this BS. They all need to be taught that violence won’t get them anywhere so that they never try to use violence again. Meet force with even more force and put a stop to this crap.
Officer Wilson is not guilty of anything other than doing his job. The guilty one is dead and that’s his own fault.
Blaming the officer for what the Kid did is wrong. The kid brought this on himself.
Move on, Wilson sure didn’t look like he’d been beaten in the photos. There wasn’t a scratch on the guy! Also, what a bogus story. If you start shooting at somebody their ass is running for the hills or dead. 12 shots? Come on.
Have you ever been slugged in the head twice by a 280 pound man? Have you ever been slugged in the head at all. The swelling happens the next day dude and with the low number of blood vessels in the back of the head you can actually take a death blow without much visual damage. Why do you think in boxing a punch to the back of the head is a disqualification?
Thanks Mojo, I did not know that.
From Wikipedia
A rabbit punch is a blow to the neck or to the base of the skull. It is considered especially dangerous because it can damage the cervical vertebrae and subsequently the spinal cord, which may lead to serious and irreparable spinal cord injury. A rabbit punch can also detach the victim’s brain from the brain stem, which can kill instantly. The punch’s name is derived from the use of the technique by hunters to kill rabbits with a quick, sharp strike to the back of the head.
Combat sports
The rabbit punch is illegal in boxing, MMA, and other combat sports that involve striking.
12 shots?
Yea this really was wrong of her to say. He’s not rotten at all. He did his job right. I don’t understand why she said that?
Obviously, the racist here is Laura.
LKB
There is only one person alive that knows what happened and your opinion is as normal, incorrect.
In search of a ride to Ferguson. I understand that the Black Friday sales have started early…..
call Adrian Brooks-he’s headed there.
This opinion topic is like walking thru a minefield of facts and opinions which one can be conceived being a racist of either color! Without injecting any color of skin into this, the deceased elected to, on these first three:
1) video evidence of petty theft with physical confrontation.
2) Jay walking down center of street and refusing officer’s request of moving over to sidewalk area.
3) physical altercations with the officer in/partial out of officers vehicle.
Was death warrant for:
1) no
2) no
3) End result of physical confrontation with officer.
The deceased made his choices. It is a shame that a life was lost by those decisions.
As far as the verdict? Verdicts are render daily by the way prosecutor/defense present their cases to judge and jury. The avenues used by both sides can be the 100% truth, half truth, or somewhere in between.
There are more steps in the legal system if either side does decide.
Which comes down to my opinion:
Law enforcers are hired to protect. A officer must protect “them self” by whatever means when confronted by physical altercations by a suspect.
Conclusion:
Let the law enforcement do their job, and don’t let your “EGO” put you on the wrong side of the law!
In anticipation of renewed rioting after the Grand Jury decision, the St. Louis County Police will be helicoptering over Ferguson, dropping job applications, as a means of dispersing the crowds.
The Prosecutor should have recused himself, given the circumstances of his father’s death. Failing that, the Governor of MO should have named a special prosecutor. Neither of them did the ethical thing. The did what they were “big enough to do” to show the people of Ferguson just how they shouldn’t question authority.
This so-called grand jury was conducted as a mini-trial in which there was no vigorous prosecution, not in the way it should have been.
McCullough’s over-long statement served to rub salt in open wounds, but he needed to emphasize how he had “presented all the evidence” as if that was a good thing. It wasn’t. Prosecutors are supposed to prosecute, or recuse themselves if they can’t. He made a travesty of the justice system in MO, and should be disbarred for it.
I believe that a competent prosecutor would have filed charges against Wilson for a charge less than First Degree murder. A properly conducted grand jury would have delivered a true bill for a lesser charge, as well. Instead, Nixon and McCullough did what “ole
(Sorry for the unfinished post)
“ole boys” do. McCullough even ensured the mayhem that ensued, by making the announcement at 8pm, instead of 8am, but that was to focus attention on that rather than what he did. Those who are rioting are doing what he wanted and needed them to do.
Time seems to be of issue. The PM over the AM time allowed all of the “non-protesters” to be safely off of the streets. Most of the protesters were peace full and within their rights as were the protesters in other cities. Problem was, there was a smaller group of protesters that were not peace full, which escalated into what it became.
True dat. The rioters who made the news reports were thugs offering a fitting tribute to the thug Michael Brown. Sadly, the media plays both ends in stirring up emotions at both ends of the issue. We need to understand the distrust of the peaceful protesters and not give face time to the opportunistic thugs.
Michael Brown was a “thug”, but Darren Wilson was not a “rotten cop”.
EKB, was Michael Brown killed “before”, or “after” the altercation with the officer?
thug n. a rough, brutal hoodlum, gangster, robber, ect
LKB, the grand jury said he wasn’t.
The person that should have been prosecuted was already dead He was the one that started this entire thing by robbing the store using strong armed thug tactics with the store clerk as clearly shown on film from the store’s security cameras. If Officer has a body camera it would have showed that Brown was the aggressor and was resisting arrest and he caused himself to be shot and killed.
The prosecutor did the right thing and the grand jury decided after looking at all the evidence and testimony that the officer did nothing wrong. The officer did his job and should be free to be back on the police force. But the black community thinks it’s wrong to shoot a black kid even if he tries to take a police officers gun away from him causing the gun to discharge inside a police car and it’s ok to hit a police officer in the face with his fist. Well he found out the hard way that you don’t go around attacking a police man without consequences. He choose to do wrong and he chose to resist arrest and he died. End of story. Every one needs to just move along now as there is nothing more to see.
I think you’re confused about what a grand jury is. Prosecutors use a grand jury when there is question on whether or not to bring charges on a person. They review the evidence and vote on whether or not if their is enough to charge the person. There is no prosecution when there isn’t someone charged with a crime. It’s a good way for a prosecutor to lay the responsibility of someone’s fate on a group of people who don’t have to worry about public backlash. Levco used grand jury’s on many occasions.
The policeman did his job, if more of them did their job like that then the rioting would stop..the blacks are just trying to intimidate the police so the they can get by with all the s— they do..Hell Brown just stole things from a store because he knew in most cases the police and most white don’t do anything. He was trying to bully the police because of his size…and it didn’t work..the policeman did his job..
All police need body cams..it would stop all the lies…
I am not sure why deadly force was used? There were other non-lethal forces available to the officer. Why did the prosecutor not present evidence and not an opinion? Traditional role of prosecutor is to present with opinion. Rioting may not be the answer but if I recall my history, even during the revolutionary war rioting was an accepted demonstration against tyranny. I see a lot of racial bias when reading these comments. Lastly remember the color of justice in this country is green.
Paul, I’m not sure what non-lethal alternatives the Ferguson department issues to officers. Local LE has a few different options, including:
Going bare knuckles with a person
OC spray
Tazers
ASP or other impact weapon
An officer must take into account the level of force they think will end the situation and keep them safe, and if you believe the findings of the grand jury, Officer Wilson was being charged by large, healthy, young, known violent felon who had already preemptively attacked him. His choice to opt for the lethal option seems perfectly reasonable to me. I suppose reasonable minds can debate this, but obviously the reasonable minds who sat on the grand jury felt the same way I do.
How do you stop an angry 6′ 6″ tall 280 lb black man that’s 25 ft away and running at you as if he was a defensive end trying to sack the QB? You almost empty (12) rounds of 40 cal at the guy until he is stopped.
This is why the army used 45 caliber bullets in War to stop people that were hell bent on killing someone.
I still wonder what Michael Brown was on or thinking? He must have been on something to try to fight with a police officer and to rush a policeman who’s pointing a gun at him. The kid was evidently crazy or something. IMHO.
If I were in Officer Wilson’s shoes I too would have shot the kid if he tried to run at me with intent to do me bodily harm. And there is no argument that he was trying to fight and harm the police officer. That’s clearly the case from all the news that I’ve seen so far.
The kid got what he deserved. Moral of the story is don’t fight with the police and lawyer up if you have to later. But if you fight the police they are authorized to protect themselves and they can shoot you if they have to protect themselves. A lesson that evidently Michael Brown didn’t learn until it was too late.
Read the grand jury transcripts. From Wilson’s own testimony he claimed that his flash light was not with in easy reach and that he and Brown were engaged in a hand to hand fight for their lives inside the police cruiser. Brown has both his hands inside the window and was punching Wilson in the face several times and Wilson thought he was going to be beat to death. So he didn’t reach for the baton or flash light as to do so would expose more of his body to Brown’s Punches. Brown had already punched Wilson in the face Twice. Wilson didn’t carry a Taser and didn’t like to use mace. His training told him to draw his weapon but when he did Brown grabbed the top of the gun and would not let Wilson raise the weapon up high enough to engage Brown with the pistol. It’s all there in the transcripts if you bother to take the time to go read them. I went and read a few pages of Wilson’s interview.
Police are trained to use deadly force when it’s necessary to protect themselves.
The policeman said he didn’t have a taser, and could not get to his pepper spray..and he couldn’t get out of the car, because the bully was pushing it closed..
Ferguson Justice, mob rule, is what our founders were trying to avoid in creating our constitutional republic. I see little difference between a president essentially creating new law through executive order or the riots in Ferguson. Both subvert the constitution and erodes the one thing that makes it possible for us to live freely in peace.
It figures that you would think that.
I’m sorry I prefer the rule of law over mob rule and executive breach of authority. It’s just like you to not see the problem in either.
12 citizens listened to the witnesses and went through the evidence. They were not police officers,attorneys or news media. They asked questions of the witnesses. They asked the prosecutors questions. They were not sequestered. They listened to Mr Brown’s family pathologist. They came to decision. They could have let their own fears and prejudices come through. They like many others have seen the recent cases of Trayvon Martin,the young man being shot in the Ohio Walmart by the police or the other two police officer involved shootings in St Louis affect their decision. But it did not. I don’t think if they announced the decision at 8 am or 8pm it would have made a difference. Some people were going to riot,loot,and set fires no matter what the decision.
Police officers have a awesome responsibility. But they did not lose that right to protect themselves from harm when they became police officers.
Makes me wonder, would there still have been looting and burning to celebrate Wilson’s indictment?
Probably, But the fact remains that these looters are the crooked Prosecutor’s best friends. They will draw the attention away from him.
“crooked prosecutor”? That’s not just a statement of opinion but a potentially defaming one. Do you have knowledge or information that should be shared with others? You have a right to your opinion but unless you have have strong or positive knowledge of illicit or illegal activities then you might want to consider toning down your language, at least add “in my opinion”. Laura, your bias and prejudices and lack of un-preconceived opinions are showing through. There is no doubt in my mind that you could not serve as a functioning un-biased juror on any jury of 12.
So what do you do about Michael Brown’s stepfather inciting the crowd to “burn that bitch down” right before they proceeded to do exactly that.
Oh, so unless the grand jury agrees with you the prosecutor must be crooked? I know you found Wilson guilty in your trail by internet, but an impartial jury examining all of the evidence found him innocent.
“Police officers have a awesome responsibility.”
You’re right. Unfortunately, we have too many who aren’t up to the task.
What is your definition of a perfect police officer?
I don’t expect perfection. I expect strong human beings with a healthy respect for the responsibility they are charged with, not weaklings who need a gun and badge to feel like a man or woman.
As usual LKB is painting with broad strokes due to her personal biases. Officers have to be strong human beings to go out on the streets everyday and face the dregs of society.They are not weak because they carry a gun and a badge. They have to have these things because the “bad guys” also carry weapons. The officers must use force to fight force when the need arises, to protect the community, the people within the community as well as themselves.
Are their bad cops? Yes there are, but no where near the number of good ones who do their job and do it correctly and to the best of their ability.
Brandon M, This is a rare agreement to your post! Common ground does happen!
I agree 100% well said..
I was called for jury duty and during the selection of the jury one black woman was asked if she trusted the police. She talked mostly about Ferguson. I wanted to hug her.
Look at ’em run and hide under their pillow cases to keep from facing the fact that a bad cop murdered an unarmed black kid in cold blood. McCulloch served his masters and family well. Darren Wilson stole more than a handful of cigars. He took from all of America.
Peaceful protest will get no one’s attention. Last night’s action in the streets was choreographed by spineless governor Jay Nixon and bad prosecutor McCulloch. Whatever it takes to get Holder off the dime is what should be done.
Absolutely! Just look at the people here who fell for the bait. McCullogh and Nixon took the spotlight off themselves and are shining it on some desperate acts of hopeless people, interspersed with the criminals they knew the decision would draw. They set up what they knew they could engineer and reinforced the suspicions of many white folk, that darker skinned people are “less human” and to be feared.
I must say Laura’s posts are very enlightening to me. I have long thought I would enjoy a real debate with her about opinion differences, but her posts on this thread have rather rid me of that delusion.
I almost feel as though I’ve lost a friend.
disaffected, don’t feel that way! Please give her a “pass” on this subject. Apparently I know something that you don’t. Trust me!
I have suspected for some time that I have known you for a very long time. This post leads me to believe it more. I think you were a good friend and customer of my late father-in-law.
If you are referring to the fact that I have two bi-racial grandsons, don’t confuse that fact with the fact that I was active in civil rights and equality issues for years before they, or even my own children were born.
What type of business was I a customer, to your father in law?
Fuel. If you’re who I think you are, your son and my daughter were in FFA at Reitz together.
Ebk, no ,not me. Chance your father inlaw initials was R(B) S?
No. I really thought you were the person I described. Darn!
This is not about civil rights or equality. It’s about a kid robbing a store and strong armed robber at that. It’s about the same kid smarting off to the authority and a police officer.
Its’ about a 6’6″ almost 300 lb man punching a policeman in the face and trying to kill the policeman with the policeman’s own gun.
It’s finally about a 6’6″ 280 to 290 lb grown man bull charging at a policeman even after being shot earlier and not complying with the Policeman’s command to get on the ground and lay there. The kid made a series of bad choices. He can’t help it that his skin is black as he was born that way. But he was evidently trying to go to college and make a better life for himself. Why he chose to rob the store of cigars and fight with a policeman boggles my mind.
But when I look at the evidence that has been given to me by the media so far I hear that the physical evidence matches what the Policeman said. That makes me believe the physical evidence and not the witnesses who said that the Officer shot the Kid in the back. We know that’s now true but it sure did stir the pot didn’t it. When people see a incident they see what they want to see and interrupt what they saw differently according to their own bias. But the shell casings position on the street don’t lie. Neither does the blood spatter patterns on the street. Those all led me to believe that Officer Wilson was telling the truth. There never should have been a grand jury and that was only done to try to appease the outraged black community. This entire incident could have been prevented if the kid has just paid for those cigars and not used strong armed tactics against the store’s Owner/clerk and the policeman.
There are some other cases where I do agree that the Police were wrong in what they did. The one where they shot a kid with the bb gun or the kid that was ordered to get out or back into his vehicle and they shot him dead without any valid reason. Now if you want to talk about the police not doing their job right talk about those incidents. But this was a justified shooting of a fleeing and then attacking violent felon who has just got though hitting a policeman in the face and trying to turn the policeman’s gun on the Policeman and shoot the policeman with his own gun. That to me means he is a suspected felon and needs to be dealt with accordingly
I’m not anti black but I am anti crime and there is a big difference. If the same thing were done by a big white guy I’d say the very same thing if the circumstances were similar.
Having bi-racial grandkids = pass? Gotcha.
Thats why she is allowed to flash her “victim” card anytime she is disagreed with or can’t prove a point with facts.
That is not at all what I meant. I was telling Arm that the bi-racial grandsons are not the reason I am not a racist. I never was. He seemed to think that could be my “excuse” for that fact, and it isn’t. It figures that you would misunderstand my meaning and twist it to the opposite.
Laura I thought this was about obeying the law not about race. Is it ok to attack a police officer if they are White or Black? Not sure why race actually matters here. The law should be obeyed no matter if you are white or black. Right?
This entire thing in Fergurson comes down to whether Brown was advancing toward Wilson or not. As we now know the grand jury decided that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in order to defend himself.
Is it ok for Brown to not respect the police and obey their commands. Why does it matter if Brown were Black or White. What matters more to me is the fact that Brown attacked a police officer. He could have been a White guy and attacking the policeman and I would say the same thing. Don’t attack the police PERIOD! Having have white and half black grand kids is not really the point and does not really belong in this discussion. This is not about whether people are racist or not. It’s about obeying the law no matter what your race is.
DeltaBravo & Brandon M: The pass was not meant for the content she had posted, for she alone must back what she says . If you had look back at all my post on this issue today, you would see that there was no “pass” on my part. The pass was for disaffected not to write LBK off by her post today. Reason was some personal issues that may affect her posting that DB was not aware of.
Hope that clears the air!
Ooops, I had started the post earlier, stepped away, and then came back later to finish. Did not see EKB post at 12:19 pm which would had eliminated most of my post!
I borrowed this from the IIT today, just because I think it is a better way to spend Black Friday than standing in line at Walmart or Target:
“IS IT TRUE on “Black Friday†Nov. 28th “We the People†are going to be picketing in front of the Evansville Courier & Press building located on 300 Walnut Street beginning at 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm rain or shine? …this protest has been dubbed the “Integrity In Journalismâ€? … that protest organizer Brenda Bergwitz stated we are sick and tired of the Evansville-Courier and Press not reporting the truth about national political events? …that she also added that the Evansville Courier and Press are not only reporting the real political happenings at the Civic Center but also aren’t publishing important “Letters to the Editor†sent to them throughout the year? …she also stated that everybody is welcome regardless of political affiliation. …she wants everybody to bring the American flag or wear patriotic outfits? …she also added if you can’t physically attend this event please drive by and honk your horn in support of this protest? “
I could easily call for a similar “picket” with the CCO for all the times that they have deleted posts and discussions (well, all the USER comments) that made well-structured points against the leanings of the CCO. The comment about the Courier & Press “publishing important “Letters to the Editor†sent to them throughout the year” should resonate with the main people at the CCO. There is a COMPLETE can on my former user name even now. Anything posted with that name will not make it onto the comment section.
If you have not had a post moderated or an account deleted then you must have nothing worth while to say.
Moveon
Not arguing that aspect or point, mainly because I tend to agree.
My point is my perception of the hypocrisy of the CCO in “casting stones” at how the C&P operates all the time. The editors at the CCO operate with the same heavy hand that reeks of censorship when they dislike what you have to say
OK I can understand what you are saying. I know that can happen in here too not just in the Courier and Press. One has to be careful not to cross a certain line in both places. People are human and sensitive about some things.
Arms, my post about Laura had nothing to do with race. I have a bi-racial grandchild and numerous bi-racial nieces and nephews. Her posts on law enforcement officers and disregard of law in general are what was surprising. I’ll not be fooled again into thinking she has any objectivity when it comes to the rule of law or much of anything else.
Thanks for the heads up. I guess I was “peace keeping” without true understanding of your issue!
I have great respect for the rule of law, and I have a huge problem with law enforcement officers that don’t. The grand jury was manipulated by a prosecutor who had no objectivity. It would be hard for anyone in his position to be objective, so Gov. Nixon should have appointed a special prosecutor. If that had been done I would have no problem with whatever the grand jury decided.
Wrong. The prosecutor gave all the evidence they could find in this case. His job is to determine that a crime was committed and in this case the only crime committed was by the Black Kid who assaulted a police officer after robbing a store. All the physical evidence supported the police officers story. And four people perjured themselves when they claimed they saw Wilson shooting Brown in the back. Many of the people who testified in the beginning have recanted their stories when faced with the physical evidence that proved they were either lying or didn’t see anything and were only saying what other’s said to them.
There is nothing wrong with a prosecutor dismissing a case when he/she knows that there is no crime committed. So to say that the prosecutor was doing something wrong is just disingenuous.
Wilson did nothing wrong in the first place. He should have never been before a grand jury. Sure you can indite a ham sandwich but is that proper or right? Innocent people should not be treated as a criminal. This policeman did his job and was violently assaulted by this black kid who was almost 300 lbs and 6′ 6″ tall. He was a lethal weapon all by himself. And he tried to shoot the officer by grabbing the officers gun and turning in on the officer and trying to get his finger on the trigger.
Evidently all you people wining about the shooting didn’t listen or for some reason discounted the evidence in this case. The foriensic evidence does not lie. And most all the physical evidence (blood trails and splatters as well as gun power residue and location of the empty shell casing) match up perfectly with Officer Wilson’s story. Therefore I’m going to give much more weight to the Officers story than the black kid who was walking down the middle of the street with Michael Brown.
When you attack and injure a police officer what do you expect will happen to you? We all know that if you shoot and kill a policeman the rest of the police are going to hunt you down like a dog and throw your ass in jail for a very very long time if they don’t just kill you before you can get to trial. Anyone with a right mind should really think twice before they attack and try to shoot a police officer. And that’s exactly what Michael Brown did to Officer Wilson. He tried to kill him. How can anyone dismiss that fact? I find that totally out of line. And Officer Wilson was not the one who attack a store clerk minutes earlier while Committing Strong armed robber at a nearby store.
All this over some damn stupid cigars? No it was not over the cigars. Michael didn’t deserve to die over stealing a few cigars. But he did deserve to die when he bull rushed the Police Officer after being told to get down on the ground and submit to being arrested for committing a felony assult on the police officer.
If you assult the police you better expect to go to jail and be locked up. And if you resist arress expect greater force to be used against you until you submit. If you fail to submit and continue to resist being arrested and use lethal force then you might just get shot dead. And that’s what happened. No one forced Michael Brown to steal those cigars or walk down the middle of the street. No one forced him to hit the office in the face and try to wrestle the gun away from the office and in the end no one forced Michael to ignore the Police Officers Commands to stop and get down on the ground. Michael Brown and he alone was responsible for the decisions he made that day. He made a series of very bad decisions and that’s why he was shot. Don’t blame anyone else for the bad decisions.
And if you want to try to figure out why he was so unresponsive to authority just look at his Step Father who was out in the middle fo the crowd inciting them to riot and burn the “Bitch” down. He sets a bad example for Michael and the rest of the community IMHO. He too should be put in jail for what he did that night. Telling already agitated people to go out and burn the town down is wrong and it’s illegal too. Michaels real dad was not like that at all from what I have seen. But Michael step dad acts like a Black Panther Terrorist IMHO.
I see someone thinks the same on this issue!
Make that two. Well said moveon. LKB, there was no need for a special prosecutor.
Laura just doesn’t get it. She’s always right, everyone else is always wrong. She sees the world through her biased, prejudiced glasses.
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect
The supreme court sent a man named Dred Scott legally back to slavery for all you rule of law people
And the people of the greatest country ever to exist amended their Constitution to forever prohibit slavery by the rule of law.
Is that the best you got, stoner? Weak, unless you meant to show the impotence of SCOTUS.
God bless officer Wilson and his family…….God bless Ferguson……God bless the Grand Jury as the worthless community organizing thugs descend on on the innocent like packs of rabid animals……….the liberal media… eric holder and obama fulled the flames this is what community organizers do………..this is not black against white this is liberalism against a civil society…………..this is why the commie liberals will NEVER take our guns away………liberals need not worry though al sharpton is backs in fergusons for anothers rounds of the destruction of society………….
God bless officer Wilson and his family…….God bless the Grand Jury……God bless Ferguson as the worthless community organizers descend on the innocent people like rabid animals……..Thank God average Americans had courage to seek the truth and not succumb to the liberal media…. eric holder…..Ferguson yet one more example why the commie liberals will Never take our guns……..
And God Bless “al sharpie” Well Said !
It was the Tories who tried to take our guns and they were “Conservatives” not liberal at all. You have got your facts mixed up. Other wise your post was pretty good. But when you went off and attacked the so called “Liberals” you started painting with too wide of a brush and that’s not going to be tolerated.
We normally wouldn’t comment on these type of social applications, per “human racial profiling events”.
We are only global social economic environmental science based, by data returns. However, as in your locally meeting room bought media rants. There in Evansville, you know the mainstream providers, will, always include that old last centuries political machine evaluated and sported late news RANT. The Furrier and Suppressed, that finger puppet just doesn’t ever make the actual metros informed balance “because”, its never real time current, alone. Neither does this blogs normal conservative bents response BS, as well.
Be objective, one does sport advantage to the other, so the mean is there for the intelligent enough to balance the offerings per each sites rants.
This subject of another towns problems does require further investigation, for everyone concerned.
Now, as far as this little blogs inputs, and the affected range of balance. Get back to your local issues. Really, are those any different? As a question to the revenue bases population there in that, what you call out as the adversely rotten, stinking, crooked, self centered, old farts board room political machine controls.
Gees, the women involved must have already admitted the tiers set, right buffy? Karen, who ever that is? They say your A- typical, “blond to the roots”. Now that’s is funny, no kidding national worthy post up stuff.
But this was recovered per a recent data run……non specific, but still recovered. and funny sounds like the ones whom discussed the subject knew you from way back in time. A theory born to one, “so to speak.”
CCO staff who’s Karen? “blond to the bone”……” Ahahahhahaah!
Governance good grief , “Not so much”. Go back on affects per subject. “everybody sees that.” and if one rises of their butt to the polls you then smash the crooked control input. See who’s to blame? Build that hotel and fund that Med center all the while your kids and your basement sports the toxicity given by the ignorance of science and facts of the balance that keeps bubbling crude in the basement.
Choices its about choices people, deal with it, face the facts with that, or shut the damned hell up.
There is a tacit fear generated by the actions and inactions we are presently seeing. Even some 3 hours travel away from Evansville doesn’t soften the emotional blow. On the whole, there is a refreshing meeting of minds in the opinions expressed here. It does steel my resolve that adversity brings previously opposing views under the same tent if not to at least to show a common front in rejection of what is unacceptable to our society. Bravo!
In the end? Ya play stupid games? Ya win stupid prizes!
Unfortunately, I fear the drop of a very large hammer will be the only thing to stop this insanity.
Hell, if that had happened in the smallish circumference of the downtown Evansville machines controls there would have never even been a Grand Jury. Period. Suggestion. Face your own problems, and shut up. That place needs serious federal intervention on its goings on, and apparently “everybody knows it.”
What is also apparent your own EPD, likely, wouldn’t ever have that problem as a whole enforcement body, and, clearly you have commissions in place to attest to that. They do seem with no matter to the bents of the rotten governance supplied, able to maintain better levels of control and community policing, than most per given revenues. That with notice, and data recovered, as well as, due those unfairly sectioned revenue balances. The county is patronage push by bent, so forget that as a viable study in the standard methodology that would make cost effective sense.
Given that this can actually leave the taxed revenue based citizens at a severe disadvantage to “normal”. “fair” and what is considered to be viable municipal services for their collected “bucks.” Point contact fail. The governance in “that town”, and citizen equal opportunity per sectioned pay in, or ward revenue balance per. Fair balance for sectioned focus, you should get what you’d be demanded to pay for more or less.
Reminder—–> “That town” = Evansville Indiana .
I guest some of you think the police should just set back and let people walk over them… and steal what ever they want from stores… if they get buy with it once the they will do it again.. Now they know then the police say get out of the street and on the sidewalk they mean it.. if this happens again 8, 9 ,10 times they will understand the police mean do it now..
Not all cops are bad. Not all black people are criminals. Not all white people are racists. Not all liberals are left-wingers. Not all conservatives are tea-baggers.
Unfortunately, what has occurred in Ferguson and has been discussed on this blog does much to perpetuate these stereotypes.
This is why I hate those labels. They are meaningless. I’m conservative on some issue and liberal on others. And I don’t like it when someone labels anyone a liberal. I will respond with like labels of Tea Bagger or Wingnuts just to prove the point that labels don’t really tell the whole story. Calling someone a name is silly. People are much more complex that that and can’t really be labeled or pinned down on everything.
Calling someone a liberal or a wing nut is not going to solve anything. Notice that I try to only use those terms for people that use those type of labels. Others I’ll have a more healthy discussion with. But if someone Is calling people names using labels then I normally dismiss them and won’t engage in anything with them as in a real discussion. I’ll just either label them back to show them how stupid it is to use labels or ignore them completely and just dismiss most all that they have to say. Which is how I treat Fox News for the most part and I can’t watch that channel more then 5 minutes before I see them attack the POTUS again and again. They are just awful in their attacks on the President and his people. So I’ll just label them and Fixed Noise and move on.
Just saw the wilson interview. His story is full of more holes than swiss cheese. You’ve already shot the kid 4 or more times and he’s still coming at you? I doubt it. That screams meth or pcp to me and surely they did toxicology tests. If that was in his system you know we’d have heard about it ad nauseum from fox news. Once brown started to run this became a revenge situation. If wilson was as scared as he claims why did he give chase alone? We’ve created a horrible wild west scenario in this country where anyone, cop or not, can just gun somebody down and all you have to say is that magic phrase “I felt threatened.”
Except for the little FACT you are conveniently choosing to overlook or are ignorant of in that there was a twenty foot trailing of blood splatter where the man/child chose to reverse track and advance on the officer.
When the 6’4′ Wilson made the statement about feeling like a five-year-old up against Hulk Hogan, I thought he was really overselling his position. I know Michael Brown was 6″6″, and outweighed him by 70lbs, but I don’t think Wilson would have said that if MB were white. Everybody knows that white represents good and black represents bad, right?
A thug is a thug, it has no color discrimination! MB “was” a thug during those last 10-15 minutes of his life! Many are ignoring that fact!
Look at the post “question” from above and respond!
Okay. I’ve never implied that I think what MB did was okay, It clearly wasn’t. I just believe that he paid too high a price for his bad behavior. I do not believe that DW would have done the same thing if MB had been a white teenager. DW was more frightened of MB because he is black. That is the reaction of a lot of white people to black people.
My grandsons’ father went to college on a football scholarship, and was being scouted by the Colts before his knee was smashed up playing football. He is quite a big man, and his skin tone is very dark. He also is a very bright man who generally puts in 60 to 80 hours a week earning a much higher than average income, and he has a great sense of humor. He always is hurt when a stranger is obviously intimidated when he is just going about his daily business, When he was in his early twenties, he spent three days in jail under arrest for a robbery committed by someone who has the same name he does. The other person is white, and it said so in the description of the robber. The police dismissed that as a “typo.” That would have made a lot of people bitter, but it made him consider becoming a policeman. He decided against it because of the pay.
“I do not believe that DW would have done the same thing if MB had been a white teenager. DW was more frightened of MB because he is black. ”
Any evidence, or is that just your feeling? I mean, Wilson is a white dude, so it’s okay to stereotype how how he must deal with or feels about black people, correct? And should Office Wilson have been indicted based on ‘feelings’ or evidence?
I personally know officers who are more prone to giving a black man or woman a pass on things (e.g., speeding tickets, other minor infractions) simply because they are black and the officer doesn’t want to deal with being called a racist or having a complaint filed against them because “He only stopped me because I’m black!”
Does that surprise you? If so, why?
Do you think MB would have charged a black cop like a crazed bull? Racism is a two way street. If the cop had been black would there be a dozen packs of hate filled people in the streets screaming for justice? Justice to these jackals of course means the lynching of a white cop.
@ DB: Did you read the crazy things DW said to the grand jury and George Stephanopolous? I did.
@Mojo:
I don’t believe MB charged a white cop like a mad bull, either.
Do you acknowledge that the diverse grand jury disagrees with your position after having seen evidence and heard much testimony that you haven’t heard.
“@ DB: Did you read the crazy things DW said to the grand jury and George Stephanopolous? I did.”
I might have – – what specific things did he say that you think were ‘crazy’?
Forgot to mention. Wilson was interviewed Tuesday. The question was ask if MB had been white? No difference!
Hulk Hogan is Green not white or black. Just saying. 🙂 Ok got that out of the way now to get serious for a second.
I think that what Officer Wilson was trying to say was that he felt helpless to stop the attack and could not use his weapon because Michael Brown had reached inside the Police Cruiser though the open window and had grabbed ahold of Wilson’s Pistol and prevented Wilson from raising the pistol up to point it at Brown. And Brown was so strong and in a better position to control the hand gun at that time. Brown had more LEVERAGE from his standing position outside the vehicle where as Officer Wilson being seated in the car could not move Brown’s hand off the top of his pistol. Brown overpowered Wilson and turned the pistol’s barrel back towards Officer’s Wilson’s hip and leg. It was only after the struggle that Wison finally was able to re control his pistol and get a shot off. Note he was using a German Made Sig Sauer Pistol 40 cal holding 13 shots (Model 226?) and it failed to fire several times during the struggle inside the vehicle. Remind me not to buy that gun. 🙁 That’s not a very good advertisement for Sig Sauer Pistols. Wilson claimed that after the first shot which he thinks hit Brown in the lower body somewhere that he Wilson had to rack the pistol’s slide in order to clear the weapon of a possible stove pipe situation before he could shoot again. And even then the gun misfired again before it worked. I’d avoid that hand gun for sure.
I got all these details from the written and published testimony that the Prosecutor released to the news media. CNN published the transcripts yesterday and I spent a few hours reading the detailed testimony of Office Wilson. That’s how I know what type of Pistol he was carrying that day.
“You’ve already shot the kid 4 or more times and he’s still coming at you? I doubt it. That screams meth or pcp to me and surely they did toxicology tests. ”
Ghost, I know that you really, REALLY believe what you’re saying, that after 4 gunshots there is no way a person could any longer be a threat. I think that our society in general has a very poor idea (largely due to Hollywood) about the effects a gunshot has on the human body. Consider the following – – a gunshot will ‘stop’ a person if:
1. They realize they’ve been shot or are being shot at and mentally or emotionally call it quits due to fear, pain, whatever. This may happen if they are grazed, it may even happen if they are not even hit. As you point out, a person jacked up on drugs or adrenaline or simply jacked up on fear or rage may not give a single damn if they’ve been shot or are being shot at. Likewise, a person might pass out from fear the moment they realize a gun is pointing at them even if not a single shot is fired.
2. The wound causes structural damage to the person to the point that they can no longer mechanically function. By structural damage I mean the bullet breaks their pelvis, breaks their leg, severs their spine, etc., and they simply can’t locomote any more do to that injury.
3. The wound causes instant shutdown of the central nervous system, e.g., a direct hit to the brain. The person is clinically dead before they hit the ground. I believe the autopsy consensus is that the shot to the top of the head was the last and final shot in the Brown case.
4. The wounds cause external or interal hemorrhage to the point that the person dies, goes into shock, or passes out. Any given gunshot wound may cause very little bleeding, depending on where it hits, and it certainly might not cause fatal bleeding. You will not bleed to death if you are shot in the calf with a pistol. Ever. Period. You may EVENTUALLY bleed to death if you are shot in the upper arm assuming the bullet damages the radial artery. You will QUICKLY bleed to death if a gunshot hits you directly in the heart or ruptures your aorta at some other point. But keep in mind that QUICKLY bleeding to death may still take a minute or so. A fatally wounded person can still do a lot of damage in between the time they are hit and the time they eventually succumb to their injury.
The above is food for thought, based on science and research of how GSW’s effect the human body. I have personally responded to people shot multiple times who would still have been perfectly capable of attacking me. I have also responded to people who have been shot a single time and they were either dead or non-functional. In light of that, it does not surprise me AT ALL that a person could be shot multiple times and still be a very real threat.
In response to today’s question, I think the fact that there have been so many peaceful demonstrations in major cities is a positive thing. It indicates that America is waking up to the fact that our justice system could use some tweaking.
Our Police are sworn to Protect and Serve, that in some cases costs the Life of the Lawbreaker,–sometimes the Officer.– The Officer feared for his life,–the outcome is borne by the attacker/lawbreaker,
the Grand Jury decision validates that.
A segment of Society has a record that should be appalling,–namely that Black on Black crime is out of control, –Murder is the #1 cause of death of Blacks in the teen to 25 age group, and hardly a day goes by without some black child being killed in gunfire exchange from the lawless,— these Deaths speak to a serious, serious problem,
–and it doesn’t point at Law and Order,- or Racism.
newswire.net/newsroom/news/00086157-the-anonymous…
The “hacktivist” group, anonymous, does come up with some valid information. I do hope they have the wrong Darren Wilson in this case, though. If the one who killed Michael Brown does have KKK ties, I expect that would set off a new round of destruction.
I’m not sure why the link didn’t post right, but just search it, if you’re interested.
I started to deride you for your post, but I decided to pray for you instead. I won’t allow myself to sink into the quagmire.
Please don’t pray for me.
Was your father-in-laws initials R(B) S?
I didn’t rob anyone yesterday and I also did not assault any clerks. Because of this, there was no need for me to attempt to resist arrest or assault a police officer. Because of this, there was no need for an officer to attempt to arrest me or shoot and kill me out of fear for his own safety. Because of this, no one in the community felt they needed to protest my death by looting, burning, or vandalizing property that doesn’t belong to them or to assault other police officers or citizens as some sort of screwed up justice or revenge. Civilized people treat other people and their property with respect and are therefore treated with respect and civility.
But ..but ..but that is not what the other 99% want to hear! The “correct solution” to the “intended” problem!
ProPublica recently did an in-depth analysis and found that black kids between ages 15-19 are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by cops than white kids of the same age. That’s an insane statistic. That’s per capita, not total. If you are a black teenage boy, you have a 21 times higher risk of being shot by police than a white teenage boy.
Also, as recently as 2010, federal prosecutors took 162,000 cases to a grand jury. You know how many DIDN’T go to trial? Six.
Mike Brown’s family will never get a criminal trial to resolve the questions of justice for their son. And the testimony that denied them that right technically doesn’t make any sense. Seriously, go read it.
Police have a hard job. What they do is something I couldn’t ever do. But do you know what a lot of people are now saying and making as the biggest point in this debate? That in many instance law enforcement lacks accountability. In this case, the prosecutor, Robert McCulloch, always gets indictments…unless it’s a cop. He’s had five cop-involved killing cases in eight years and zero indictments. Again, five cases against police haven’t made it to trial at all. He could get an indictment if he wanted one.
The reason that I have sit and wondered about this so much (since it does not truly impact or affect anything in my personal life) is maybe because I know the difference between what a grand jury does and what a trial does. A trial is the place where the debate or guilt or innocence should take place. A grand jury is there to decide if there is probable cause for a trial.
IMHO, probable cause exists in this case with nothing more than (1) number of shots fired, (2) the fact that the suspect was unarmed, (3) the dispute between medical examiners, (4) even a single witness that said something that did not match exactly with the officer’s testimony
The prosecutor’s decision to put all evidence before the grand jury seems extremely suspect to me. If he wanted to simply present enough to indict (which is his job) he would have only put on the evidence that raised questions about what happened (thereby showing that it is worth pursuing a full investigation for trial), and then let the actual trail and justice system work to resolve innocence or guilt. That is how the system is designed to work.
The fact that this didn’t at least get a trial bugs the hell out of me. But if you think that is not a big deal, then try and imagine how visceral your reaction might be if you are black. Black people, who live with this every day, are constantly second-guessed because they are somehow “biased.” As though not wanting to get shot by police at a 21x higher rate is a bias. It’s a daily reality of being black in America.
Whether Darren Wilson would have been convicted after trial remains unclear; perhaps the case against him for the killing of Michael Brown wouldn’t have survived scrutiny. Perhaps the structural benefits given law enforcement to use fatal force without fear would have allowed him to circumvent conviction. Perhaps he wasn’t guilty. We will never know.
The grand jury transcript offers little comfort. Those who explain that it’s transparency are lying to you. It’s all part of the Ferguson Lie. While it tells us what was presented, it doesn’t tell us what was not. It’s unchallenged, unquestioned and unquestionable evidence. There is no adversary in the grand jury to roar against its one-sided presentation.
That it ended without the prosecutor asking the grand jury for an indictment is unheard of. By this omission, it ended with the prosecutor telling the grand jury that a close call goes to the defendant. It ended as it was meant to end, as the foregone conclusion demanded it end.
The merit of the grand jury presentation relies entirely on our acceptance of Bob McCulloch’s office desiring an indictment against Darren Wilson. Just as a prosecutor can indict any damn person he pleases, he can similarly make sure a person is not indicted. He does so through subtle tricks. He does so through big lies. Like presenting “all the evidence.†Like the Ferguson Lie.
Had the prosecution desired an indictment against Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, the presentment would have taken an hour, maybe two, and there would have been a true bill by close of business the next day, well before Michael Brown had been laid to rest. The grand jury isn’t the venue to present “all the evidence.†That’s what trials are for. The grand jury serves a very limited function, to determine whether sufficient evidence exists so that there is probable cause to proceed to trial.
In Ferguson, the grand jury served a very different purpose. It was the mechanism by which the guardians of the status quo protect the American dream of an orderly society, where the appearance of challenge is preserved so that lazy and ignorant Americans can sleep well at night, secure in the belief that their officials and institutions are doing the job of protecting their comfort against the unsavory and the malcontents.
This is the Ferguson Lie. Will America fall for it? Of course we will, just as we have so many times before. It’s too much work to do anything else. It’s always been too much work for Americans.
There will be more unarmed black kids being shot by police. 21 times more. There’s no question about that. The question is: How long will you tolerate it, and what are we willing to do to try to prevent it in the future?
The leading cause of death among young black males is well known to be murder. It is also pretty well documented that over 90% of those murders are are committed by other young black males. It was reported on NPR that last year 5,452 young black men were murdered in the United States and 93% of those (5,070) were killed by other blacks. Since Michael Brown died, police have killed exactly 6 young black males. That would annualize to 24. That statistic would show that a young black male is 211 times more likely to be murdered by another black male that they are of being shot by a cop. I will point out that most of the cop related killings are not even murder. Given the vast disparity in how young black males are being killed by guns, I think you are barking up the wrong tree if you want to preserve young black males. You should make it your life challenge to get the brothers to stop killing each other. The cop shooting black male problem will be reduced to nearly nothing if you can figure out how to stop the black on black murders.
Would you suggest that all black kids should be required to shadow a non-black 24-7 for those ages of 15-19?
That blacks could never hang out with each other until their 20th birthday? (This was done with tongue in cheek!)
I support law enforcement. But I think that there is a fair amount of rationalization that is being done by people looking at the issues and facts surrounding the Ferguson case. I think that there are far too much condemnation of a large swath of people involved in this story, and I think that some better discussion needs to take place in America. I think that a lot of people in our country are trying to make sense of the relationship between law enforcement and the public, and especially minorities, during that critical period between when you are a “public” and when you are a “suspect”.
The bottom line (IMHO) is that the number of suspects fatally shot by police last year — 461— was the most in two decades, according to a new FBI report. A recent analysis of the FBI’s police homicide database during a seven-year period ending in 2012 found an average of over 450 fatal shootings each year by law enforcement, and further revealed an average of 96 incidents each year in which a white officer killed a black person. That means a fourth of all fatal police shootings each year are ones where a white officer killed a black suspect.
There is also a major issue with the FBI database and the current reporting requirements for law enforcement. Reporting on fatal shootings by law enforcement to the FBI national crime reporting system is voluntary. The most recent data in the database shows only about 750 agencies contribute to the database, a fraction of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States. The FBI has statistics going back many years on the number of fatal incidents for law enforcement officers, but not for the number of fatal incidents that were caused by law enforcement. That bothers me. Law enforcement agencies insist that the number of fatal shootings by police are no more than the above number of 450, but a large number of independent trackers, primarily researchers and academics who study criminal justice, insist the accurate number of people shot and killed by police officers each year is consistently upwards of 1,000 each year. That is a lot of fatal shootings by law enforcement.
While I do not agree in any way, shape, or form with the actions and methods that have been used in Ferguson this week, I do have to opine that the numbers above give me some pause. The more I look at some of this the more I have to say that as a person looking at the numbers and statistics provided, I have to wonder if there is not something that should be done to reduce the number of fatal police shootings in the United States. Pretty much every researcher and statistician working with the fatal law enforcement numbers say that the number of fatal shootings by law enforcement where a white cop shoots and kills a minority suspect is getting higher each year. That is not good news.
I do not pretend for a millisecond to know how to propose an answer. But the numbers that I have seen frighten me. I am steadfast in disagreeing and condemning the methods of protest in Ferguson, but after reviewing a number of in-depth reviews by independent and unbiased third-party researchers and academics that I have more questions than answers to the recent grand jury decision. This is just my opinion, but in the days since Monday night I am not alone in wondering about things in America in general when it comes to interactions with law enforcement and the public, especially interactions with minorities. I think there needs to be some true “soul searching” on finding some answers to make sure that the events in Ferguson are the exception and not the norm.
Classy, two very good posts. I’m not going to say I agree with everything you are saying, but I do appreciate the tone and food for thought.
So 25% is white cop killing a black!
That leaves 75% for: white killing white, black killing black. and black killing white.
That average to 25% each, no white killing black majority!
Infiniteness busted!
Replace infiniteness with emphasis.
Wow, there’s some crazy stuff above in the comments. Hope they look at the carry permits you all might be packing. Damn. Where is the sanity in the balance? What to know forward, the law, and ultimately in the country represented by the locational majority of the postings, that’s supposed to be the United States of America.
Settle down, think, wait. it’ll be ok. The law is something mankind sports they can control, now, then there’s the climate.
In every social definitions aspect that’s just thermodynamics, and for humans as everything existing on earth its universally applied. When that chaos reaches out and touches you, is cause for study and some reactive balancing.
Control what you can now, and think about what that really is, directly , as in what’s humanly possible.’
Universal chaos doesn’t care about the balance of human law. Never did, never will. Help each other, its what you can do. Now.
“Focus, find power for a well balanced solution.”
There is more too these deaths rates that just crime statistics.
Certainly ! The outstanding “more” factor being fatherless homes with no responsible adult male guide to provide direction and erect developmental goals. Top off that dynamic with profiteering self appointed spokesmen and we have a never ending downward spiral of tightly held victimology. But nevermind, the government is here to help.
Yea I wish that Al Sharpton would shut up. He was not there and all he is doing is inciting people to go out and protest and some of those will take it too far. This can tear our country apart if it goes too far.
FBI had recently released the 2013 stats.
There was right at 50,000 reported “assaults” on our law enforcement. 50,000 times there was “no” respect for the law, the person behind the badge, or the people that that badge represents!
I hear by give all law enforcement my “full consent” to protect yourself by what ever means, while protecting us law abiding citizens!
Nacy grace is an IDIOT. I’m wondering if she has any holes in her head. Seriously did anyone hear what she said on Thursday Thanksgiving day? I always thought she was a little off but today she flip flopped and proved it to me. How in the H did anyone let her be a Prosecutor? That’s like putting someone from the insane asylum in charge of the court house. She need to be taken off TV.
I agree. Never had care for her style. Had not see her in several years. Other day had the time to catch a lot of those 24/7 news outlets. Just trying to get a “all around” view from many angles. Caught part of her show. She is one arrogant, snobby, bit**! (rather use the “c” word) My comment is about her presentation, not the substance which is another matter!
Make all the evidence public just redact names. Also, there were widely disseminated photos from fox news and other outlets of a guy who was all beat up. Turns out those photos were of some guy who had a motocross accident in 2006. The photos I saw of Wilson’s face from right after the incident had him looking pretty healthy.
What officer Wilson did was legal, but like a lot of things in life that does not make it right.
I bet Officer Wilson didn’t get his jollies killing that man-it is a terrible thing to take a person’s life.
These things I know:
if someone breaks into your house knowing you’re there, they are prepared to kill you.
if I physically harm a policeman, he’s going to use whatever force he has to to stop me, because he has to assume that if I refuse to cooperate, I am prepared to kill him.
if a policeman has a gun on me and tells me to stop or he will shoot? I will stop, because he will shoot me.
I am sorry for Mr. Brown’s family. They aren’t just harmed by their son’s bad actions, a cop’s last resort, they are also victims of national media on a feeding frenzy.
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect
Dred Scott decision
The facts are the facts, accept the verdict and move on.
The actions of the “protesters” should be met with greater force. If they want to turn the streets into a war zone send in the National Guard. They are looting,burning the flag, ddestroying private and public property and shooting at people. If the American people ever needed to be protected from a terrorist movement, now is that time.
We are no longer dealing with peaceful protesters trying to convey a message, we are dealing with thugs, terrorist and society’s trash taking advantage of an already bad situation.
Good jod, no one hears your message, they only see your stupidity.
Good jod?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5768510
And here I was worried that the Post Police wouldn’t show up and add absolutely nothing to the discussion.
That You for being you. 🙂
I agree with the comment about using greater force.
Looting and Setting buildings on Fire as the Avenue to achieve the Goals, and Needs of Ferguson the City,—– or Ferguson the Community–is —————. (fill in the blank -your choice.)
Agreed, but that still doesn’t excuse a lot of problems they’re trying to protest.
The only “problems” are with the community itself. Teach you children, respect for themselves and authority, teach them how to support themselves and their families legally and teach them that they need to accept responsibility for the actions and 99% of the “problems they’re trying to protest” will be resolved.
Looting is not protesting.
Can you read?
Yes, I read a “but.”
Without the Facts privileged to the Grand Jury, we ALL have to rely on their judgment in digesting that information, and reaching a decision based on their conclusions as to the “Why” this death happened..
I respect their decision for a Non- indictment of Officer Wilson.
The Media may very well”try” him anyway as the Circus of what ifs, and buts, will keep the flames burning and dollars flowing their way.
The question concerns the precipitating incident, the failure to indict a rotten cop. You are trying to deflect attention from that fact to a racially-charged condemnation of a small group of people who use the occasion to loot and burn. The truth is that you don’t ever miss an opportunity to voice your dislike of people with darker skin than yours.
Why is the officer rotten without opinion?
Do you condone the looting and burning?
Would you condone your premises to the burning and looting without remorse?
He had already been on one police force that was found to be so corrupt that it was disbanded. He demonstrated a cowardice by the number of shots he fired.
I’m pretty sure that if you read my post, you know the answer to you second and third questions, but no, of course I don’t condone burning and choose to live where such a thing is highly unlikely.
Just respectfully asking, is your first sentence any evidence in this case? Does association of “past actions” get reintroduced into a current trial?
So, since the Jennings, Missouri, police force was disbanded due to internal corruption; does that mean every officer is to be “tarred with the same brush”? That city is now protected by the St. Louis County Police – many of whom are former Jennings police officers. There is no “cowardice” exhibited, when there is a threat you keep firing until the threat is removed. I’m familiar with an instance where a man the size of Mr. Brown was shot at least a dozen times – in center of mass, not in an arm – and was still approaching the officer. A single shot with a .22 can be fatal and yet ten rounds of .40 can sometimes only cause “superficial” injuries.
moonpup, wonder if a blood test was done on the decease that would indicate anything that would had created a more of a ‘superman” action then normal?
This is in response to Armstrongres, although Moonpup has already done a good job illuminating this subject.
“moonpup, wonder if a blood test was done on the decease that would indicate anything that would had created a more of a ‘superman†action then normal?”
It is a fact well hidden by Hollywood (where a pistol shot typically sends the person flying end-over-end with blood spraying in all directions, killing them instantly), that pistol rounds are really poor ‘man-stoppers’. It is not uncommon for a person to take multiple hits with service caliber (9mm, .40, .45) hangun and be able to continue fighting. I have personally seen numerous gunshot wounds, including a man who was shot in the gut with 4, .40 JHP and walked out of the hospital later with no complications. He was a big man, and in the immediate aftermath of the shooting he would have been fully capable of hurting me badly if he had a mind too., despite his wounds.
My take away is that you don’t need to be high on drugs or rage or some other extenuating factor for a pistol to not kill you. That can exacerbate the reaction, but regardless of sobriety or mental status a person that is hit directly in the heart with a pistol round may still have 30 seconds of hard fighting left in them before blood loss and shock shut them down. That is why LE is trained to shoot until the threat is stopped, and it is not ‘cowardice’ to pull the trigger 10 times if the threat is still present after the 9th shot.
Mr. Brown was a big man, young and healthy and obviously no stranger to using that size and strength aggressively (as noted in the convenience store robbery). I would have been far more surprised if it had only taken one or two shots to stop him then I am that it took 10.
Delta, I wasn’t debating the number of shots. One hears of someone being on something that causes greater aggression or strength then normal. That’s where I was going.
I take exception to your statement “the failure to indict a rotten cop,” it may well be your opinion that he was but the facts don’t bear this out. By all accounts he was an average police officer with enough time on the job to be effective and to expose any propensity toward violence. I think that you are impugning the integrity and ability of the 12 people on the grand jury who, after seeing the evidence presented, decided not to indict.
Concur.
I also agree. Officer Wilson did his job and was forced to shoot the Big and very strong (6’6″ and 280 lbs) kid as the kid bull rushed the officer after he hit the officer in the face with his fists several times and tried to get the officers gun earlier in this confrontation.
The kid was a wanted felon who had just recently conducted a strong armed robber of store. Ironically the same store that was looted last night and burned down.
When you play with fire you often get burned.
I fully support the officer. It’s just too bad that the officer didn’t have a body camera on him to document what Michael Brown did in the two or three minutes after running into the Officer.
I do think that people Like Al Sharpton are way out of line and need to shut the hell up. Al is wrong to believe that justice was not done. Al talks about the prosecutor not prosecuting but IMHO the perp was not Officer Wilson but instead it was Michael Brown Jr. He was the one that robbed the store and he was the one that was attacking a Police Officer. Officer Wilson was there to arrest Michael Brown for strong armed robbery and was trying to wait for back up to make the arrest as the kid was too big to handle by himself. The kid was 6’6″ tall and weighted 280 lbs and Officer Wilson was only 6’2″ and much smaller. If the kid had not attacked the officer inside the police car and cause the officers gun to discharge nearly killing the officer then he would be alive today and sitting in a jail cell where he belonged. But no he has to fight with a police officer and try to get the gun and then after running away returns to bull rush and try to hurt the police officer even though the officer had his gun out. Most people would have stopped but this kid was too damn stupid or mean to stop so he was shot and killed.
And last night his step dad was shouting to the crowd of protesters in Ferguson Missouri to burn it down. He also should be arrested and charged with inciting a riot. And they need to make the news media turn over all their video to the police. The video will clearly show people looting the same store that Michael Brown Robbed before. They all should be charged and jailed. This type os bs should never be allowed to happen again.
I agree with one of the posters above. Use more force to subdue those that try to use force to steal and rob. Why sit back and not shoot these terrorists? I say send in the 101 st and police the city until people get back to being calm. People should not get away with this BS. They all need to be taught that violence won’t get them anywhere so that they never try to use violence again. Meet force with even more force and put a stop to this crap.
Officer Wilson is not guilty of anything other than doing his job. The guilty one is dead and that’s his own fault.
Blaming the officer for what the Kid did is wrong. The kid brought this on himself.
Move on, Wilson sure didn’t look like he’d been beaten in the photos. There wasn’t a scratch on the guy! Also, what a bogus story. If you start shooting at somebody their ass is running for the hills or dead. 12 shots? Come on.
Have you ever been slugged in the head twice by a 280 pound man? Have you ever been slugged in the head at all. The swelling happens the next day dude and with the low number of blood vessels in the back of the head you can actually take a death blow without much visual damage. Why do you think in boxing a punch to the back of the head is a disqualification?
Thanks Mojo, I did not know that.
From Wikipedia
A rabbit punch is a blow to the neck or to the base of the skull. It is considered especially dangerous because it can damage the cervical vertebrae and subsequently the spinal cord, which may lead to serious and irreparable spinal cord injury. A rabbit punch can also detach the victim’s brain from the brain stem, which can kill instantly. The punch’s name is derived from the use of the technique by hunters to kill rabbits with a quick, sharp strike to the back of the head.
Combat sports
The rabbit punch is illegal in boxing, MMA, and other combat sports that involve striking.
12 shots?
Yea this really was wrong of her to say. He’s not rotten at all. He did his job right. I don’t understand why she said that?
Obviously, the racist here is Laura.
LKB
There is only one person alive that knows what happened and your opinion is as normal, incorrect.
In search of a ride to Ferguson. I understand that the Black Friday sales have started early…..
call Adrian Brooks-he’s headed there.
This opinion topic is like walking thru a minefield of facts and opinions which one can be conceived being a racist of either color! Without injecting any color of skin into this, the deceased elected to, on these first three:
1) video evidence of petty theft with physical confrontation.
2) Jay walking down center of street and refusing officer’s request of moving over to sidewalk area.
3) physical altercations with the officer in/partial out of officers vehicle.
Was death warrant for:
1) no
2) no
3) End result of physical confrontation with officer.
The deceased made his choices. It is a shame that a life was lost by those decisions.
As far as the verdict? Verdicts are render daily by the way prosecutor/defense present their cases to judge and jury. The avenues used by both sides can be the 100% truth, half truth, or somewhere in between.
There are more steps in the legal system if either side does decide.
Which comes down to my opinion:
Law enforcers are hired to protect. A officer must protect “them self” by whatever means when confronted by physical altercations by a suspect.
Conclusion:
Let the law enforcement do their job, and don’t let your “EGO” put you on the wrong side of the law!
In anticipation of renewed rioting after the Grand Jury decision, the St. Louis County Police will be helicoptering over Ferguson, dropping job applications, as a means of dispersing the crowds.
The Prosecutor should have recused himself, given the circumstances of his father’s death. Failing that, the Governor of MO should have named a special prosecutor. Neither of them did the ethical thing. The did what they were “big enough to do” to show the people of Ferguson just how they shouldn’t question authority.
This so-called grand jury was conducted as a mini-trial in which there was no vigorous prosecution, not in the way it should have been.
McCullough’s over-long statement served to rub salt in open wounds, but he needed to emphasize how he had “presented all the evidence” as if that was a good thing. It wasn’t. Prosecutors are supposed to prosecute, or recuse themselves if they can’t. He made a travesty of the justice system in MO, and should be disbarred for it.
I believe that a competent prosecutor would have filed charges against Wilson for a charge less than First Degree murder. A properly conducted grand jury would have delivered a true bill for a lesser charge, as well. Instead, Nixon and McCullough did what “ole
(Sorry for the unfinished post)
“ole boys” do. McCullough even ensured the mayhem that ensued, by making the announcement at 8pm, instead of 8am, but that was to focus attention on that rather than what he did. Those who are rioting are doing what he wanted and needed them to do.
Time seems to be of issue. The PM over the AM time allowed all of the “non-protesters” to be safely off of the streets. Most of the protesters were peace full and within their rights as were the protesters in other cities. Problem was, there was a smaller group of protesters that were not peace full, which escalated into what it became.
True dat. The rioters who made the news reports were thugs offering a fitting tribute to the thug Michael Brown. Sadly, the media plays both ends in stirring up emotions at both ends of the issue. We need to understand the distrust of the peaceful protesters and not give face time to the opportunistic thugs.
Michael Brown was a “thug”, but Darren Wilson was not a “rotten cop”.
EKB, was Michael Brown killed “before”, or “after” the altercation with the officer?
thug n. a rough, brutal hoodlum, gangster, robber, ect
LKB, the grand jury said he wasn’t.
The person that should have been prosecuted was already dead He was the one that started this entire thing by robbing the store using strong armed thug tactics with the store clerk as clearly shown on film from the store’s security cameras. If Officer has a body camera it would have showed that Brown was the aggressor and was resisting arrest and he caused himself to be shot and killed.
The prosecutor did the right thing and the grand jury decided after looking at all the evidence and testimony that the officer did nothing wrong. The officer did his job and should be free to be back on the police force. But the black community thinks it’s wrong to shoot a black kid even if he tries to take a police officers gun away from him causing the gun to discharge inside a police car and it’s ok to hit a police officer in the face with his fist. Well he found out the hard way that you don’t go around attacking a police man without consequences. He choose to do wrong and he chose to resist arrest and he died. End of story. Every one needs to just move along now as there is nothing more to see.
I think you’re confused about what a grand jury is. Prosecutors use a grand jury when there is question on whether or not to bring charges on a person. They review the evidence and vote on whether or not if their is enough to charge the person. There is no prosecution when there isn’t someone charged with a crime. It’s a good way for a prosecutor to lay the responsibility of someone’s fate on a group of people who don’t have to worry about public backlash. Levco used grand jury’s on many occasions.
The policeman did his job, if more of them did their job like that then the rioting would stop..the blacks are just trying to intimidate the police so the they can get by with all the s— they do..Hell Brown just stole things from a store because he knew in most cases the police and most white don’t do anything. He was trying to bully the police because of his size…and it didn’t work..the policeman did his job..
All police need body cams..it would stop all the lies…
I am not sure why deadly force was used? There were other non-lethal forces available to the officer. Why did the prosecutor not present evidence and not an opinion? Traditional role of prosecutor is to present with opinion. Rioting may not be the answer but if I recall my history, even during the revolutionary war rioting was an accepted demonstration against tyranny. I see a lot of racial bias when reading these comments. Lastly remember the color of justice in this country is green.
Paul, I’m not sure what non-lethal alternatives the Ferguson department issues to officers. Local LE has a few different options, including:
Going bare knuckles with a person
OC spray
Tazers
ASP or other impact weapon
An officer must take into account the level of force they think will end the situation and keep them safe, and if you believe the findings of the grand jury, Officer Wilson was being charged by large, healthy, young, known violent felon who had already preemptively attacked him. His choice to opt for the lethal option seems perfectly reasonable to me. I suppose reasonable minds can debate this, but obviously the reasonable minds who sat on the grand jury felt the same way I do.
How do you stop an angry 6′ 6″ tall 280 lb black man that’s 25 ft away and running at you as if he was a defensive end trying to sack the QB? You almost empty (12) rounds of 40 cal at the guy until he is stopped.
This is why the army used 45 caliber bullets in War to stop people that were hell bent on killing someone.
I still wonder what Michael Brown was on or thinking? He must have been on something to try to fight with a police officer and to rush a policeman who’s pointing a gun at him. The kid was evidently crazy or something. IMHO.
If I were in Officer Wilson’s shoes I too would have shot the kid if he tried to run at me with intent to do me bodily harm. And there is no argument that he was trying to fight and harm the police officer. That’s clearly the case from all the news that I’ve seen so far.
The kid got what he deserved. Moral of the story is don’t fight with the police and lawyer up if you have to later. But if you fight the police they are authorized to protect themselves and they can shoot you if they have to protect themselves. A lesson that evidently Michael Brown didn’t learn until it was too late.
Read the grand jury transcripts. From Wilson’s own testimony he claimed that his flash light was not with in easy reach and that he and Brown were engaged in a hand to hand fight for their lives inside the police cruiser. Brown has both his hands inside the window and was punching Wilson in the face several times and Wilson thought he was going to be beat to death. So he didn’t reach for the baton or flash light as to do so would expose more of his body to Brown’s Punches. Brown had already punched Wilson in the face Twice. Wilson didn’t carry a Taser and didn’t like to use mace. His training told him to draw his weapon but when he did Brown grabbed the top of the gun and would not let Wilson raise the weapon up high enough to engage Brown with the pistol. It’s all there in the transcripts if you bother to take the time to go read them. I went and read a few pages of Wilson’s interview.
Police are trained to use deadly force when it’s necessary to protect themselves.
The policeman said he didn’t have a taser, and could not get to his pepper spray..and he couldn’t get out of the car, because the bully was pushing it closed..
Ferguson Justice, mob rule, is what our founders were trying to avoid in creating our constitutional republic. I see little difference between a president essentially creating new law through executive order or the riots in Ferguson. Both subvert the constitution and erodes the one thing that makes it possible for us to live freely in peace.
It figures that you would think that.
I’m sorry I prefer the rule of law over mob rule and executive breach of authority. It’s just like you to not see the problem in either.
12 citizens listened to the witnesses and went through the evidence. They were not police officers,attorneys or news media. They asked questions of the witnesses. They asked the prosecutors questions. They were not sequestered. They listened to Mr Brown’s family pathologist. They came to decision. They could have let their own fears and prejudices come through. They like many others have seen the recent cases of Trayvon Martin,the young man being shot in the Ohio Walmart by the police or the other two police officer involved shootings in St Louis affect their decision. But it did not. I don’t think if they announced the decision at 8 am or 8pm it would have made a difference. Some people were going to riot,loot,and set fires no matter what the decision.
Police officers have a awesome responsibility. But they did not lose that right to protect themselves from harm when they became police officers.
Makes me wonder, would there still have been looting and burning to celebrate Wilson’s indictment?
Probably, But the fact remains that these looters are the crooked Prosecutor’s best friends. They will draw the attention away from him.
“crooked prosecutor”? That’s not just a statement of opinion but a potentially defaming one. Do you have knowledge or information that should be shared with others? You have a right to your opinion but unless you have have strong or positive knowledge of illicit or illegal activities then you might want to consider toning down your language, at least add “in my opinion”. Laura, your bias and prejudices and lack of un-preconceived opinions are showing through. There is no doubt in my mind that you could not serve as a functioning un-biased juror on any jury of 12.
So what do you do about Michael Brown’s stepfather inciting the crowd to “burn that bitch down” right before they proceeded to do exactly that.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/us/michael-brown-stepfather-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Oh, so unless the grand jury agrees with you the prosecutor must be crooked? I know you found Wilson guilty in your trail by internet, but an impartial jury examining all of the evidence found him innocent.
“Police officers have a awesome responsibility.”
You’re right. Unfortunately, we have too many who aren’t up to the task.
What is your definition of a perfect police officer?
I don’t expect perfection. I expect strong human beings with a healthy respect for the responsibility they are charged with, not weaklings who need a gun and badge to feel like a man or woman.
As usual LKB is painting with broad strokes due to her personal biases. Officers have to be strong human beings to go out on the streets everyday and face the dregs of society.They are not weak because they carry a gun and a badge. They have to have these things because the “bad guys” also carry weapons. The officers must use force to fight force when the need arises, to protect the community, the people within the community as well as themselves.
Are their bad cops? Yes there are, but no where near the number of good ones who do their job and do it correctly and to the best of their ability.
Brandon M, This is a rare agreement to your post! Common ground does happen!
I agree 100% well said..
I was called for jury duty and during the selection of the jury one black woman was asked if she trusted the police. She talked mostly about Ferguson. I wanted to hug her.
Look at ’em run and hide under their pillow cases to keep from facing the fact that a bad cop murdered an unarmed black kid in cold blood. McCulloch served his masters and family well. Darren Wilson stole more than a handful of cigars. He took from all of America.
Peaceful protest will get no one’s attention. Last night’s action in the streets was choreographed by spineless governor Jay Nixon and bad prosecutor McCulloch. Whatever it takes to get Holder off the dime is what should be done.
Absolutely! Just look at the people here who fell for the bait. McCullogh and Nixon took the spotlight off themselves and are shining it on some desperate acts of hopeless people, interspersed with the criminals they knew the decision would draw. They set up what they knew they could engineer and reinforced the suspicions of many white folk, that darker skinned people are “less human” and to be feared.
I must say Laura’s posts are very enlightening to me. I have long thought I would enjoy a real debate with her about opinion differences, but her posts on this thread have rather rid me of that delusion.
I almost feel as though I’ve lost a friend.
disaffected, don’t feel that way! Please give her a “pass” on this subject. Apparently I know something that you don’t. Trust me!
I have suspected for some time that I have known you for a very long time. This post leads me to believe it more. I think you were a good friend and customer of my late father-in-law.
If you are referring to the fact that I have two bi-racial grandsons, don’t confuse that fact with the fact that I was active in civil rights and equality issues for years before they, or even my own children were born.
What type of business was I a customer, to your father in law?
Fuel. If you’re who I think you are, your son and my daughter were in FFA at Reitz together.
Ebk, no ,not me. Chance your father inlaw initials was R(B) S?
No. I really thought you were the person I described. Darn!
This is not about civil rights or equality. It’s about a kid robbing a store and strong armed robber at that. It’s about the same kid smarting off to the authority and a police officer.
Its’ about a 6’6″ almost 300 lb man punching a policeman in the face and trying to kill the policeman with the policeman’s own gun.
It’s finally about a 6’6″ 280 to 290 lb grown man bull charging at a policeman even after being shot earlier and not complying with the Policeman’s command to get on the ground and lay there. The kid made a series of bad choices. He can’t help it that his skin is black as he was born that way. But he was evidently trying to go to college and make a better life for himself. Why he chose to rob the store of cigars and fight with a policeman boggles my mind.
But when I look at the evidence that has been given to me by the media so far I hear that the physical evidence matches what the Policeman said. That makes me believe the physical evidence and not the witnesses who said that the Officer shot the Kid in the back. We know that’s now true but it sure did stir the pot didn’t it. When people see a incident they see what they want to see and interrupt what they saw differently according to their own bias. But the shell casings position on the street don’t lie. Neither does the blood spatter patterns on the street. Those all led me to believe that Officer Wilson was telling the truth. There never should have been a grand jury and that was only done to try to appease the outraged black community. This entire incident could have been prevented if the kid has just paid for those cigars and not used strong armed tactics against the store’s Owner/clerk and the policeman.
There are some other cases where I do agree that the Police were wrong in what they did. The one where they shot a kid with the bb gun or the kid that was ordered to get out or back into his vehicle and they shot him dead without any valid reason. Now if you want to talk about the police not doing their job right talk about those incidents. But this was a justified shooting of a fleeing and then attacking violent felon who has just got though hitting a policeman in the face and trying to turn the policeman’s gun on the Policeman and shoot the policeman with his own gun. That to me means he is a suspected felon and needs to be dealt with accordingly
I’m not anti black but I am anti crime and there is a big difference. If the same thing were done by a big white guy I’d say the very same thing if the circumstances were similar.
Having bi-racial grandkids = pass? Gotcha.
Thats why she is allowed to flash her “victim” card anytime she is disagreed with or can’t prove a point with facts.
That is not at all what I meant. I was telling Arm that the bi-racial grandsons are not the reason I am not a racist. I never was. He seemed to think that could be my “excuse” for that fact, and it isn’t. It figures that you would misunderstand my meaning and twist it to the opposite.
Laura I thought this was about obeying the law not about race. Is it ok to attack a police officer if they are White or Black? Not sure why race actually matters here. The law should be obeyed no matter if you are white or black. Right?
This entire thing in Fergurson comes down to whether Brown was advancing toward Wilson or not. As we now know the grand jury decided that Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in order to defend himself.
Is it ok for Brown to not respect the police and obey their commands. Why does it matter if Brown were Black or White. What matters more to me is the fact that Brown attacked a police officer. He could have been a White guy and attacking the policeman and I would say the same thing. Don’t attack the police PERIOD! Having have white and half black grand kids is not really the point and does not really belong in this discussion. This is not about whether people are racist or not. It’s about obeying the law no matter what your race is.
DeltaBravo & Brandon M: The pass was not meant for the content she had posted, for she alone must back what she says . If you had look back at all my post on this issue today, you would see that there was no “pass” on my part. The pass was for disaffected not to write LBK off by her post today. Reason was some personal issues that may affect her posting that DB was not aware of.
Hope that clears the air!
Ooops, I had started the post earlier, stepped away, and then came back later to finish. Did not see EKB post at 12:19 pm which would had eliminated most of my post!
I borrowed this from the IIT today, just because I think it is a better way to spend Black Friday than standing in line at Walmart or Target:
“IS IT TRUE on “Black Friday†Nov. 28th “We the People†are going to be picketing in front of the Evansville Courier & Press building located on 300 Walnut Street beginning at 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm rain or shine? …this protest has been dubbed the “Integrity In Journalismâ€? … that protest organizer Brenda Bergwitz stated we are sick and tired of the Evansville-Courier and Press not reporting the truth about national political events? …that she also added that the Evansville Courier and Press are not only reporting the real political happenings at the Civic Center but also aren’t publishing important “Letters to the Editor†sent to them throughout the year? …she also stated that everybody is welcome regardless of political affiliation. …she wants everybody to bring the American flag or wear patriotic outfits? …she also added if you can’t physically attend this event please drive by and honk your horn in support of this protest? “
I could easily call for a similar “picket” with the CCO for all the times that they have deleted posts and discussions (well, all the USER comments) that made well-structured points against the leanings of the CCO. The comment about the Courier & Press “publishing important “Letters to the Editor†sent to them throughout the year” should resonate with the main people at the CCO. There is a COMPLETE can on my former user name even now. Anything posted with that name will not make it onto the comment section.
If you have not had a post moderated or an account deleted then you must have nothing worth while to say.
Moveon
Not arguing that aspect or point, mainly because I tend to agree.
My point is my perception of the hypocrisy of the CCO in “casting stones” at how the C&P operates all the time. The editors at the CCO operate with the same heavy hand that reeks of censorship when they dislike what you have to say
OK I can understand what you are saying. I know that can happen in here too not just in the Courier and Press. One has to be careful not to cross a certain line in both places. People are human and sensitive about some things.
Arms, my post about Laura had nothing to do with race. I have a bi-racial grandchild and numerous bi-racial nieces and nephews. Her posts on law enforcement officers and disregard of law in general are what was surprising. I’ll not be fooled again into thinking she has any objectivity when it comes to the rule of law or much of anything else.
Thanks for the heads up. I guess I was “peace keeping” without true understanding of your issue!
I have great respect for the rule of law, and I have a huge problem with law enforcement officers that don’t. The grand jury was manipulated by a prosecutor who had no objectivity. It would be hard for anyone in his position to be objective, so Gov. Nixon should have appointed a special prosecutor. If that had been done I would have no problem with whatever the grand jury decided.
Wrong. The prosecutor gave all the evidence they could find in this case. His job is to determine that a crime was committed and in this case the only crime committed was by the Black Kid who assaulted a police officer after robbing a store. All the physical evidence supported the police officers story. And four people perjured themselves when they claimed they saw Wilson shooting Brown in the back. Many of the people who testified in the beginning have recanted their stories when faced with the physical evidence that proved they were either lying or didn’t see anything and were only saying what other’s said to them.
There is nothing wrong with a prosecutor dismissing a case when he/she knows that there is no crime committed. So to say that the prosecutor was doing something wrong is just disingenuous.
Wilson did nothing wrong in the first place. He should have never been before a grand jury. Sure you can indite a ham sandwich but is that proper or right? Innocent people should not be treated as a criminal. This policeman did his job and was violently assaulted by this black kid who was almost 300 lbs and 6′ 6″ tall. He was a lethal weapon all by himself. And he tried to shoot the officer by grabbing the officers gun and turning in on the officer and trying to get his finger on the trigger.
Evidently all you people wining about the shooting didn’t listen or for some reason discounted the evidence in this case. The foriensic evidence does not lie. And most all the physical evidence (blood trails and splatters as well as gun power residue and location of the empty shell casing) match up perfectly with Officer Wilson’s story. Therefore I’m going to give much more weight to the Officers story than the black kid who was walking down the middle of the street with Michael Brown.
When you attack and injure a police officer what do you expect will happen to you? We all know that if you shoot and kill a policeman the rest of the police are going to hunt you down like a dog and throw your ass in jail for a very very long time if they don’t just kill you before you can get to trial. Anyone with a right mind should really think twice before they attack and try to shoot a police officer. And that’s exactly what Michael Brown did to Officer Wilson. He tried to kill him. How can anyone dismiss that fact? I find that totally out of line. And Officer Wilson was not the one who attack a store clerk minutes earlier while Committing Strong armed robber at a nearby store.
All this over some damn stupid cigars? No it was not over the cigars. Michael didn’t deserve to die over stealing a few cigars. But he did deserve to die when he bull rushed the Police Officer after being told to get down on the ground and submit to being arrested for committing a felony assult on the police officer.
If you assult the police you better expect to go to jail and be locked up. And if you resist arress expect greater force to be used against you until you submit. If you fail to submit and continue to resist being arrested and use lethal force then you might just get shot dead. And that’s what happened. No one forced Michael Brown to steal those cigars or walk down the middle of the street. No one forced him to hit the office in the face and try to wrestle the gun away from the office and in the end no one forced Michael to ignore the Police Officers Commands to stop and get down on the ground. Michael Brown and he alone was responsible for the decisions he made that day. He made a series of very bad decisions and that’s why he was shot. Don’t blame anyone else for the bad decisions.
And if you want to try to figure out why he was so unresponsive to authority just look at his Step Father who was out in the middle fo the crowd inciting them to riot and burn the “Bitch” down. He sets a bad example for Michael and the rest of the community IMHO. He too should be put in jail for what he did that night. Telling already agitated people to go out and burn the town down is wrong and it’s illegal too. Michaels real dad was not like that at all from what I have seen. But Michael step dad acts like a Black Panther Terrorist IMHO.
I see someone thinks the same on this issue!
Make that two. Well said moveon. LKB, there was no need for a special prosecutor.
Laura just doesn’t get it. She’s always right, everyone else is always wrong. She sees the world through her biased, prejudiced glasses.
They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect
The supreme court sent a man named Dred Scott legally back to slavery for all you rule of law people
And the people of the greatest country ever to exist amended their Constitution to forever prohibit slavery by the rule of law.
Is that the best you got, stoner? Weak, unless you meant to show the impotence of SCOTUS.
God bless officer Wilson and his family…….God bless Ferguson……God bless the Grand Jury as the worthless community organizing thugs descend on on the innocent like packs of rabid animals……….the liberal media… eric holder and obama fulled the flames this is what community organizers do………..this is not black against white this is liberalism against a civil society…………..this is why the commie liberals will NEVER take our guns away………liberals need not worry though al sharpton is backs in fergusons for anothers rounds of the destruction of society………….
God bless officer Wilson and his family…….God bless the Grand Jury……God bless Ferguson as the worthless community organizers descend on the innocent people like rabid animals……..Thank God average Americans had courage to seek the truth and not succumb to the liberal media…. eric holder…..Ferguson yet one more example why the commie liberals will Never take our guns……..
And God Bless “al sharpie” Well Said !
It was the Tories who tried to take our guns and they were “Conservatives” not liberal at all. You have got your facts mixed up. Other wise your post was pretty good. But when you went off and attacked the so called “Liberals” you started painting with too wide of a brush and that’s not going to be tolerated.
We normally wouldn’t comment on these type of social applications, per “human racial profiling events”.
We are only global social economic environmental science based, by data returns. However, as in your locally meeting room bought media rants. There in Evansville, you know the mainstream providers, will, always include that old last centuries political machine evaluated and sported late news RANT. The Furrier and Suppressed, that finger puppet just doesn’t ever make the actual metros informed balance “because”, its never real time current, alone. Neither does this blogs normal conservative bents response BS, as well.
Be objective, one does sport advantage to the other, so the mean is there for the intelligent enough to balance the offerings per each sites rants.
This subject of another towns problems does require further investigation, for everyone concerned.
Now, as far as this little blogs inputs, and the affected range of balance. Get back to your local issues. Really, are those any different? As a question to the revenue bases population there in that, what you call out as the adversely rotten, stinking, crooked, self centered, old farts board room political machine controls.
Gees, the women involved must have already admitted the tiers set, right buffy? Karen, who ever that is? They say your A- typical, “blond to the roots”. Now that’s is funny, no kidding national worthy post up stuff.
But this was recovered per a recent data run……non specific, but still recovered. and funny sounds like the ones whom discussed the subject knew you from way back in time. A theory born to one, “so to speak.”
CCO staff who’s Karen? “blond to the bone”……” Ahahahhahaah!
Governance good grief , “Not so much”. Go back on affects per subject. “everybody sees that.” and if one rises of their butt to the polls you then smash the crooked control input. See who’s to blame? Build that hotel and fund that Med center all the while your kids and your basement sports the toxicity given by the ignorance of science and facts of the balance that keeps bubbling crude in the basement.
Choices its about choices people, deal with it, face the facts with that, or shut the damned hell up.
There is a tacit fear generated by the actions and inactions we are presently seeing. Even some 3 hours travel away from Evansville doesn’t soften the emotional blow. On the whole, there is a refreshing meeting of minds in the opinions expressed here. It does steel my resolve that adversity brings previously opposing views under the same tent if not to at least to show a common front in rejection of what is unacceptable to our society. Bravo!
In the end? Ya play stupid games? Ya win stupid prizes!
Unfortunately, I fear the drop of a very large hammer will be the only thing to stop this insanity.
Hell, if that had happened in the smallish circumference of the downtown Evansville machines controls there would have never even been a Grand Jury. Period. Suggestion. Face your own problems, and shut up. That place needs serious federal intervention on its goings on, and apparently “everybody knows it.”
What is also apparent your own EPD, likely, wouldn’t ever have that problem as a whole enforcement body, and, clearly you have commissions in place to attest to that. They do seem with no matter to the bents of the rotten governance supplied, able to maintain better levels of control and community policing, than most per given revenues. That with notice, and data recovered, as well as, due those unfairly sectioned revenue balances. The county is patronage push by bent, so forget that as a viable study in the standard methodology that would make cost effective sense.
Given that this can actually leave the taxed revenue based citizens at a severe disadvantage to “normal”. “fair” and what is considered to be viable municipal services for their collected “bucks.” Point contact fail. The governance in “that town”, and citizen equal opportunity per sectioned pay in, or ward revenue balance per. Fair balance for sectioned focus, you should get what you’d be demanded to pay for more or less.
Reminder—–> “That town” = Evansville Indiana .
I guest some of you think the police should just set back and let people walk over them… and steal what ever they want from stores… if they get buy with it once the they will do it again.. Now they know then the police say get out of the street and on the sidewalk they mean it.. if this happens again 8, 9 ,10 times they will understand the police mean do it now..
Not all cops are bad. Not all black people are criminals. Not all white people are racists. Not all liberals are left-wingers. Not all conservatives are tea-baggers.
Unfortunately, what has occurred in Ferguson and has been discussed on this blog does much to perpetuate these stereotypes.
This is why I hate those labels. They are meaningless. I’m conservative on some issue and liberal on others. And I don’t like it when someone labels anyone a liberal. I will respond with like labels of Tea Bagger or Wingnuts just to prove the point that labels don’t really tell the whole story. Calling someone a name is silly. People are much more complex that that and can’t really be labeled or pinned down on everything.
Calling someone a liberal or a wing nut is not going to solve anything. Notice that I try to only use those terms for people that use those type of labels. Others I’ll have a more healthy discussion with. But if someone Is calling people names using labels then I normally dismiss them and won’t engage in anything with them as in a real discussion. I’ll just either label them back to show them how stupid it is to use labels or ignore them completely and just dismiss most all that they have to say. Which is how I treat Fox News for the most part and I can’t watch that channel more then 5 minutes before I see them attack the POTUS again and again. They are just awful in their attacks on the President and his people. So I’ll just label them and Fixed Noise and move on.
Just saw the wilson interview. His story is full of more holes than swiss cheese. You’ve already shot the kid 4 or more times and he’s still coming at you? I doubt it. That screams meth or pcp to me and surely they did toxicology tests. If that was in his system you know we’d have heard about it ad nauseum from fox news. Once brown started to run this became a revenge situation. If wilson was as scared as he claims why did he give chase alone? We’ve created a horrible wild west scenario in this country where anyone, cop or not, can just gun somebody down and all you have to say is that magic phrase “I felt threatened.”
Except for the little FACT you are conveniently choosing to overlook or are ignorant of in that there was a twenty foot trailing of blood splatter where the man/child chose to reverse track and advance on the officer.
When the 6’4′ Wilson made the statement about feeling like a five-year-old up against Hulk Hogan, I thought he was really overselling his position. I know Michael Brown was 6″6″, and outweighed him by 70lbs, but I don’t think Wilson would have said that if MB were white. Everybody knows that white represents good and black represents bad, right?
A thug is a thug, it has no color discrimination! MB “was” a thug during those last 10-15 minutes of his life! Many are ignoring that fact!
Look at the post “question” from above and respond!
Okay. I’ve never implied that I think what MB did was okay, It clearly wasn’t. I just believe that he paid too high a price for his bad behavior. I do not believe that DW would have done the same thing if MB had been a white teenager. DW was more frightened of MB because he is black. That is the reaction of a lot of white people to black people.
My grandsons’ father went to college on a football scholarship, and was being scouted by the Colts before his knee was smashed up playing football. He is quite a big man, and his skin tone is very dark. He also is a very bright man who generally puts in 60 to 80 hours a week earning a much higher than average income, and he has a great sense of humor. He always is hurt when a stranger is obviously intimidated when he is just going about his daily business, When he was in his early twenties, he spent three days in jail under arrest for a robbery committed by someone who has the same name he does. The other person is white, and it said so in the description of the robber. The police dismissed that as a “typo.” That would have made a lot of people bitter, but it made him consider becoming a policeman. He decided against it because of the pay.
“I do not believe that DW would have done the same thing if MB had been a white teenager. DW was more frightened of MB because he is black. ”
Any evidence, or is that just your feeling? I mean, Wilson is a white dude, so it’s okay to stereotype how how he must deal with or feels about black people, correct? And should Office Wilson have been indicted based on ‘feelings’ or evidence?
I personally know officers who are more prone to giving a black man or woman a pass on things (e.g., speeding tickets, other minor infractions) simply because they are black and the officer doesn’t want to deal with being called a racist or having a complaint filed against them because “He only stopped me because I’m black!”
Does that surprise you? If so, why?
Do you think MB would have charged a black cop like a crazed bull? Racism is a two way street. If the cop had been black would there be a dozen packs of hate filled people in the streets screaming for justice? Justice to these jackals of course means the lynching of a white cop.
@ DB: Did you read the crazy things DW said to the grand jury and George Stephanopolous? I did.
@Mojo:
I don’t believe MB charged a white cop like a mad bull, either.
Do you acknowledge that the diverse grand jury disagrees with your position after having seen evidence and heard much testimony that you haven’t heard.
“@ DB: Did you read the crazy things DW said to the grand jury and George Stephanopolous? I did.”
I might have – – what specific things did he say that you think were ‘crazy’?
Forgot to mention. Wilson was interviewed Tuesday. The question was ask if MB had been white? No difference!
Hulk Hogan is Green not white or black. Just saying. 🙂 Ok got that out of the way now to get serious for a second.
I think that what Officer Wilson was trying to say was that he felt helpless to stop the attack and could not use his weapon because Michael Brown had reached inside the Police Cruiser though the open window and had grabbed ahold of Wilson’s Pistol and prevented Wilson from raising the pistol up to point it at Brown. And Brown was so strong and in a better position to control the hand gun at that time. Brown had more LEVERAGE from his standing position outside the vehicle where as Officer Wilson being seated in the car could not move Brown’s hand off the top of his pistol. Brown overpowered Wilson and turned the pistol’s barrel back towards Officer’s Wilson’s hip and leg. It was only after the struggle that Wison finally was able to re control his pistol and get a shot off. Note he was using a German Made Sig Sauer Pistol 40 cal holding 13 shots (Model 226?) and it failed to fire several times during the struggle inside the vehicle. Remind me not to buy that gun. 🙁 That’s not a very good advertisement for Sig Sauer Pistols. Wilson claimed that after the first shot which he thinks hit Brown in the lower body somewhere that he Wilson had to rack the pistol’s slide in order to clear the weapon of a possible stove pipe situation before he could shoot again. And even then the gun misfired again before it worked. I’d avoid that hand gun for sure.
I got all these details from the written and published testimony that the Prosecutor released to the news media. CNN published the transcripts yesterday and I spent a few hours reading the detailed testimony of Office Wilson. That’s how I know what type of Pistol he was carrying that day.
“You’ve already shot the kid 4 or more times and he’s still coming at you? I doubt it. That screams meth or pcp to me and surely they did toxicology tests. ”
Ghost, I know that you really, REALLY believe what you’re saying, that after 4 gunshots there is no way a person could any longer be a threat. I think that our society in general has a very poor idea (largely due to Hollywood) about the effects a gunshot has on the human body. Consider the following – – a gunshot will ‘stop’ a person if:
1. They realize they’ve been shot or are being shot at and mentally or emotionally call it quits due to fear, pain, whatever. This may happen if they are grazed, it may even happen if they are not even hit. As you point out, a person jacked up on drugs or adrenaline or simply jacked up on fear or rage may not give a single damn if they’ve been shot or are being shot at. Likewise, a person might pass out from fear the moment they realize a gun is pointing at them even if not a single shot is fired.
2. The wound causes structural damage to the person to the point that they can no longer mechanically function. By structural damage I mean the bullet breaks their pelvis, breaks their leg, severs their spine, etc., and they simply can’t locomote any more do to that injury.
3. The wound causes instant shutdown of the central nervous system, e.g., a direct hit to the brain. The person is clinically dead before they hit the ground. I believe the autopsy consensus is that the shot to the top of the head was the last and final shot in the Brown case.
4. The wounds cause external or interal hemorrhage to the point that the person dies, goes into shock, or passes out. Any given gunshot wound may cause very little bleeding, depending on where it hits, and it certainly might not cause fatal bleeding. You will not bleed to death if you are shot in the calf with a pistol. Ever. Period. You may EVENTUALLY bleed to death if you are shot in the upper arm assuming the bullet damages the radial artery. You will QUICKLY bleed to death if a gunshot hits you directly in the heart or ruptures your aorta at some other point. But keep in mind that QUICKLY bleeding to death may still take a minute or so. A fatally wounded person can still do a lot of damage in between the time they are hit and the time they eventually succumb to their injury.
The above is food for thought, based on science and research of how GSW’s effect the human body. I have personally responded to people shot multiple times who would still have been perfectly capable of attacking me. I have also responded to people who have been shot a single time and they were either dead or non-functional. In light of that, it does not surprise me AT ALL that a person could be shot multiple times and still be a very real threat.
In response to today’s question, I think the fact that there have been so many peaceful demonstrations in major cities is a positive thing. It indicates that America is waking up to the fact that our justice system could use some tweaking.
Our Police are sworn to Protect and Serve, that in some cases costs the Life of the Lawbreaker,–sometimes the Officer.– The Officer feared for his life,–the outcome is borne by the attacker/lawbreaker,
the Grand Jury decision validates that.
A segment of Society has a record that should be appalling,–namely that Black on Black crime is out of control, –Murder is the #1 cause of death of Blacks in the teen to 25 age group, and hardly a day goes by without some black child being killed in gunfire exchange from the lawless,— these Deaths speak to a serious, serious problem,
–and it doesn’t point at Law and Order,- or Racism.
newswire.net/newsroom/news/00086157-the-anonymous…
The “hacktivist” group, anonymous, does come up with some valid information. I do hope they have the wrong Darren Wilson in this case, though. If the one who killed Michael Brown does have KKK ties, I expect that would set off a new round of destruction.
I’m not sure why the link didn’t post right, but just search it, if you’re interested.
I started to deride you for your post, but I decided to pray for you instead. I won’t allow myself to sink into the quagmire.
Please don’t pray for me.
Was your father-in-laws initials R(B) S?
I didn’t rob anyone yesterday and I also did not assault any clerks. Because of this, there was no need for me to attempt to resist arrest or assault a police officer. Because of this, there was no need for an officer to attempt to arrest me or shoot and kill me out of fear for his own safety. Because of this, no one in the community felt they needed to protest my death by looting, burning, or vandalizing property that doesn’t belong to them or to assault other police officers or citizens as some sort of screwed up justice or revenge. Civilized people treat other people and their property with respect and are therefore treated with respect and civility.
But ..but ..but that is not what the other 99% want to hear! The “correct solution” to the “intended” problem!
ProPublica recently did an in-depth analysis and found that black kids between ages 15-19 are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by cops than white kids of the same age. That’s an insane statistic. That’s per capita, not total. If you are a black teenage boy, you have a 21 times higher risk of being shot by police than a white teenage boy.
Also, as recently as 2010, federal prosecutors took 162,000 cases to a grand jury. You know how many DIDN’T go to trial? Six.
Mike Brown’s family will never get a criminal trial to resolve the questions of justice for their son. And the testimony that denied them that right technically doesn’t make any sense. Seriously, go read it.
Police have a hard job. What they do is something I couldn’t ever do. But do you know what a lot of people are now saying and making as the biggest point in this debate? That in many instance law enforcement lacks accountability. In this case, the prosecutor, Robert McCulloch, always gets indictments…unless it’s a cop. He’s had five cop-involved killing cases in eight years and zero indictments. Again, five cases against police haven’t made it to trial at all. He could get an indictment if he wanted one.
The reason that I have sit and wondered about this so much (since it does not truly impact or affect anything in my personal life) is maybe because I know the difference between what a grand jury does and what a trial does. A trial is the place where the debate or guilt or innocence should take place. A grand jury is there to decide if there is probable cause for a trial.
IMHO, probable cause exists in this case with nothing more than (1) number of shots fired, (2) the fact that the suspect was unarmed, (3) the dispute between medical examiners, (4) even a single witness that said something that did not match exactly with the officer’s testimony
The prosecutor’s decision to put all evidence before the grand jury seems extremely suspect to me. If he wanted to simply present enough to indict (which is his job) he would have only put on the evidence that raised questions about what happened (thereby showing that it is worth pursuing a full investigation for trial), and then let the actual trail and justice system work to resolve innocence or guilt. That is how the system is designed to work.
The fact that this didn’t at least get a trial bugs the hell out of me. But if you think that is not a big deal, then try and imagine how visceral your reaction might be if you are black. Black people, who live with this every day, are constantly second-guessed because they are somehow “biased.” As though not wanting to get shot by police at a 21x higher rate is a bias. It’s a daily reality of being black in America.
Whether Darren Wilson would have been convicted after trial remains unclear; perhaps the case against him for the killing of Michael Brown wouldn’t have survived scrutiny. Perhaps the structural benefits given law enforcement to use fatal force without fear would have allowed him to circumvent conviction. Perhaps he wasn’t guilty. We will never know.
The grand jury transcript offers little comfort. Those who explain that it’s transparency are lying to you. It’s all part of the Ferguson Lie. While it tells us what was presented, it doesn’t tell us what was not. It’s unchallenged, unquestioned and unquestionable evidence. There is no adversary in the grand jury to roar against its one-sided presentation.
That it ended without the prosecutor asking the grand jury for an indictment is unheard of. By this omission, it ended with the prosecutor telling the grand jury that a close call goes to the defendant. It ended as it was meant to end, as the foregone conclusion demanded it end.
The merit of the grand jury presentation relies entirely on our acceptance of Bob McCulloch’s office desiring an indictment against Darren Wilson. Just as a prosecutor can indict any damn person he pleases, he can similarly make sure a person is not indicted. He does so through subtle tricks. He does so through big lies. Like presenting “all the evidence.†Like the Ferguson Lie.
Had the prosecution desired an indictment against Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson, the presentment would have taken an hour, maybe two, and there would have been a true bill by close of business the next day, well before Michael Brown had been laid to rest. The grand jury isn’t the venue to present “all the evidence.†That’s what trials are for. The grand jury serves a very limited function, to determine whether sufficient evidence exists so that there is probable cause to proceed to trial.
In Ferguson, the grand jury served a very different purpose. It was the mechanism by which the guardians of the status quo protect the American dream of an orderly society, where the appearance of challenge is preserved so that lazy and ignorant Americans can sleep well at night, secure in the belief that their officials and institutions are doing the job of protecting their comfort against the unsavory and the malcontents.
This is the Ferguson Lie. Will America fall for it? Of course we will, just as we have so many times before. It’s too much work to do anything else. It’s always been too much work for Americans.
There will be more unarmed black kids being shot by police. 21 times more. There’s no question about that. The question is: How long will you tolerate it, and what are we willing to do to try to prevent it in the future?
The leading cause of death among young black males is well known to be murder. It is also pretty well documented that over 90% of those murders are are committed by other young black males. It was reported on NPR that last year 5,452 young black men were murdered in the United States and 93% of those (5,070) were killed by other blacks. Since Michael Brown died, police have killed exactly 6 young black males. That would annualize to 24. That statistic would show that a young black male is 211 times more likely to be murdered by another black male that they are of being shot by a cop. I will point out that most of the cop related killings are not even murder. Given the vast disparity in how young black males are being killed by guns, I think you are barking up the wrong tree if you want to preserve young black males. You should make it your life challenge to get the brothers to stop killing each other. The cop shooting black male problem will be reduced to nearly nothing if you can figure out how to stop the black on black murders.
Would you suggest that all black kids should be required to shadow a non-black 24-7 for those ages of 15-19?
That blacks could never hang out with each other until their 20th birthday? (This was done with tongue in cheek!)
I support law enforcement. But I think that there is a fair amount of rationalization that is being done by people looking at the issues and facts surrounding the Ferguson case. I think that there are far too much condemnation of a large swath of people involved in this story, and I think that some better discussion needs to take place in America. I think that a lot of people in our country are trying to make sense of the relationship between law enforcement and the public, and especially minorities, during that critical period between when you are a “public” and when you are a “suspect”.
The bottom line (IMHO) is that the number of suspects fatally shot by police last year — 461— was the most in two decades, according to a new FBI report. A recent analysis of the FBI’s police homicide database during a seven-year period ending in 2012 found an average of over 450 fatal shootings each year by law enforcement, and further revealed an average of 96 incidents each year in which a white officer killed a black person. That means a fourth of all fatal police shootings each year are ones where a white officer killed a black suspect.
There is also a major issue with the FBI database and the current reporting requirements for law enforcement. Reporting on fatal shootings by law enforcement to the FBI national crime reporting system is voluntary. The most recent data in the database shows only about 750 agencies contribute to the database, a fraction of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States. The FBI has statistics going back many years on the number of fatal incidents for law enforcement officers, but not for the number of fatal incidents that were caused by law enforcement. That bothers me. Law enforcement agencies insist that the number of fatal shootings by police are no more than the above number of 450, but a large number of independent trackers, primarily researchers and academics who study criminal justice, insist the accurate number of people shot and killed by police officers each year is consistently upwards of 1,000 each year. That is a lot of fatal shootings by law enforcement.
While I do not agree in any way, shape, or form with the actions and methods that have been used in Ferguson this week, I do have to opine that the numbers above give me some pause. The more I look at some of this the more I have to say that as a person looking at the numbers and statistics provided, I have to wonder if there is not something that should be done to reduce the number of fatal police shootings in the United States. Pretty much every researcher and statistician working with the fatal law enforcement numbers say that the number of fatal shootings by law enforcement where a white cop shoots and kills a minority suspect is getting higher each year. That is not good news.
I do not pretend for a millisecond to know how to propose an answer. But the numbers that I have seen frighten me. I am steadfast in disagreeing and condemning the methods of protest in Ferguson, but after reviewing a number of in-depth reviews by independent and unbiased third-party researchers and academics that I have more questions than answers to the recent grand jury decision. This is just my opinion, but in the days since Monday night I am not alone in wondering about things in America in general when it comes to interactions with law enforcement and the public, especially interactions with minorities. I think there needs to be some true “soul searching” on finding some answers to make sure that the events in Ferguson are the exception and not the norm.
Classy, two very good posts. I’m not going to say I agree with everything you are saying, but I do appreciate the tone and food for thought.
So 25% is white cop killing a black!
That leaves 75% for: white killing white, black killing black. and black killing white.
That average to 25% each, no white killing black majority!
Infiniteness busted!
Replace infiniteness with emphasis.
Wow, there’s some crazy stuff above in the comments. Hope they look at the carry permits you all might be packing. Damn. Where is the sanity in the balance? What to know forward, the law, and ultimately in the country represented by the locational majority of the postings, that’s supposed to be the United States of America.
Settle down, think, wait. it’ll be ok. The law is something mankind sports they can control, now, then there’s the climate.
In every social definitions aspect that’s just thermodynamics, and for humans as everything existing on earth its universally applied. When that chaos reaches out and touches you, is cause for study and some reactive balancing.
Control what you can now, and think about what that really is, directly , as in what’s humanly possible.’
Universal chaos doesn’t care about the balance of human law. Never did, never will. Help each other, its what you can do. Now.
“Focus, find power for a well balanced solution.”
There is more too these deaths rates that just crime statistics.
Certainly ! The outstanding “more” factor being fatherless homes with no responsible adult male guide to provide direction and erect developmental goals. Top off that dynamic with profiteering self appointed spokesmen and we have a never ending downward spiral of tightly held victimology. But nevermind, the government is here to help.
Yea I wish that Al Sharpton would shut up. He was not there and all he is doing is inciting people to go out and protest and some of those will take it too far. This can tear our country apart if it goes too far.
FBI had recently released the 2013 stats.
There was right at 50,000 reported “assaults” on our law enforcement. 50,000 times there was “no” respect for the law, the person behind the badge, or the people that that badge represents!
I hear by give all law enforcement my “full consent” to protect yourself by what ever means, while protecting us law abiding citizens!
Nacy grace is an IDIOT. I’m wondering if she has any holes in her head. Seriously did anyone hear what she said on Thursday Thanksgiving day? I always thought she was a little off but today she flip flopped and proved it to me. How in the H did anyone let her be a Prosecutor? That’s like putting someone from the insane asylum in charge of the court house. She need to be taken off TV.
I agree. Never had care for her style. Had not see her in several years. Other day had the time to catch a lot of those 24/7 news outlets. Just trying to get a “all around” view from many angles. Caught part of her show. She is one arrogant, snobby, bit**! (rather use the “c” word) My comment is about her presentation, not the substance which is another matter!
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