What you did not hear mentioned in this video was a breakdown on just exactly what your $20.million + $17.5million = $37.5million was going to pay for.
Winnecke did say that the city would not be granting the developer a property tax abatement (does that include personal property taxes?) but I can just imagine being in the room when all this was brought up originally and someone pointing out that even the unsophisticated Evansville electorate might balk at granting a guaranteed room rent and property tax abatement on top of that.
It is hell to be perpetually dealing from a position of weakness, as this city is, and being forced to go to the same well, time after time, to draw your water. Between the Boat and the City the people are about tapped out.
__
STATE OF INDIANA
DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE
2013 TAX RATES
(Per Taxing District)
Year:
2013
County:
82
Vanderburgh
Taxing District
District Rate
2013 County
Homestead Credit
2013
District Rate
2012
ONLY
FOR COMPARISON
017
ARMSTRONG TOWNSHIP
2.0911
0.061581
1.7416
018
DARMSTADT TOWN-ARMSTRONG TOWNS
2.2362
0.061581
1.8708
019
CENTER TOWNSHIP
2.1040
0.061581
1.7337
020
EVANSVILLE CITY-CENTER TOWNSHI
3.3675
0.061581
2.8807
021
DARMSTADT TOWN CENTER TOWNSHIP
2.2637
0.061581
1.8956
022
GERMAN TOWNSHIP
2.1006
0.061581
1.7520
023
DARMSTADT TOWN-GERMAN TOWNSHIP
2.2548
0.061581
1.8785
024
PERRY TOWNSHIP
2.0902
0.061581
1.7370
025
EVANSVILLE CITY-PERRY TOWNSHIP
3.3674
0.061581
2.8816
026
KNIGHT TOWNSHIP
2.1784
0.061581
1.7613
027
EVANSVILLE CITY-KNIGHT TOWNSHI
3.3564
0.061581
2.8704
028
PIGEON TOWNSHIP
2.3828
0.061581
1.9982
029
EVANSVILLE CITY-PIGEON TOWNSHI
3.4482
0.061581
2.9485
030
SCOTT TOWNSHIP
2.1880
0.061581
1.8242
031
DARMSTADT TOWN-SCOTT TOWNSHIP
2.2426
0.061581
1.8799
032
UNION TOWNSHIP – REAL
2.2457
0.061581
1.9126
033
UNION TOWNSHIP – PERSONAL
2.2457
0.061581
1.9126
034
EVANSVILLE CITY – KNIGHT TWP PHASE IN ANNEXATION
0.0000
0.061581
2.8704
035
EVANSVILLE CITY – PIGEON TWP PHASE IN ANNEXATION
0.0000
0.061581
2.9485
036
EVANSVILLE CITY – KNIGHT TWP (TIF MEMO ONLY)
0.0000
0.061581
1.1958
037
EVANSVILLE CITY-KNIGHT TWP BURK ORG (TIF MEMO ONL
1.3304
0.061581
1.1958
038
EVANSVILLE CITY KNIGHT TWP BURK EXP (TIF MEMO ONL
1.3304
0.061581
1.1958
“The project will not increase property taxes.” (Mayor Winnecke)
__
Actually it won’t increase them directly so the Mayor is not lying. He is using the truth to tell a lie though. What TIF districts do is shift property taxes to others outside of the TIF but in the same census tract. Winnecke’s hotel will indeed cause taxes to be increased at a later date when the money used in the hotel is needed for something else. He will never admit it.
Do you really mean to tell me that if the proposed local government budget is X amount of $$$, and if the Tax Increment Finance District is allowed to “sequester” (there is that word again) a certain percentage of property taxes raised within the TIF District for use solely within the district, that a disproportionate of amount of property taxes must be paid by everyone in order to meet the cost of that proposed budget?
Boy I hope that never becomes public knowledge or the myth of TIF will be exploded for sure.
The only use for TIF is in severely blighted urban areas for which it was created. It has been bastardized in Evansville into things like the Burkhardt Road TIF, which far from being a “blighted” area was some of the most EXPENSIVE real estate in Evansville when the TIF was created.
So, a little question is in order here: The Burkhardt Road commercial property owners got their infrastructure, which made their properties worth even more, and the taxpayer’s got the TIF Bond payments, when do the taxpayers get their money back?
___
The shit will really hit the fan if the TIF capture is not sufficient to pay the bonds off. TIF in theory can only capture “new” taxes but when the “new” taxes are too low the bonds still have to be paid. The same goes for riverboat funds committed to pay for these frivolous projects. When that revenue is not sufficient the taxpayer eats the difference. If Winnecke says different then he is a damn liar.
Building the hotel is a good thing to do. Good video Mayor.
Said the parrot! Brawk, Coo – Coo
So many false assumptions in this address, so little time, but I’ll try to be brief…
The assertion that there will be “more heads in beds” is ludicrous. Building a hotel to meet a non-existent increase in demand does not magically create customers for a business. Those customers, IF they come to this new downtown hotel, will be taken from other hotels in the area. So, no, you will not create new business, you will merely spread the existing customers across a larger number of hotels.
Because of this principle of economics, that you don’t create a larger demand for a service simply by offering more of it, there will be no appreciable boost in the innkeeper’s tax. If anything, a new downtown hotel built with taxpayer subsidies will push some other hotel or hotels in the area out of business. Any new permanent jobs created at this new hotel will be jobs lost from some other area of town. The net effect will be zero.
This is not Field of Dreams. Mayor Winnecke is not Kevin Costner. No matter how much he might try to argue the contrary, the fact remains, if he builds it, they may not come, and even if they DO come, those customers would come at the expense of other competing hotels in the City.
Mayor Winnecke, nor anyone else, can create an increase in aggregate demand for hotel rooms simply by building another hotel in the City. Demand is based on larger factors such as overall employment, wages, and production in the larger economy. These are all factors outside of the control of ANY politician at any level.
What you did not hear mentioned in this video was a breakdown on just exactly what your $20.million + $17.5million = $37.5million was going to pay for.
Winnecke did say that the city would not be granting the developer a property tax abatement (does that include personal property taxes?) but I can just imagine being in the room when all this was brought up originally and someone pointing out that even the unsophisticated Evansville electorate might balk at granting a guaranteed room rent and property tax abatement on top of that.
It is hell to be perpetually dealing from a position of weakness, as this city is, and being forced to go to the same well, time after time, to draw your water. Between the Boat and the City the people are about tapped out.
__
STATE OF INDIANA
DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE
2013 TAX RATES
(Per Taxing District)
Year:
2013
County:
82
Vanderburgh
Taxing District
District Rate
2013 County
Homestead Credit
2013
District Rate
2012
ONLY
FOR COMPARISON
017
ARMSTRONG TOWNSHIP
2.0911
0.061581
1.7416
018
DARMSTADT TOWN-ARMSTRONG TOWNS
2.2362
0.061581
1.8708
019
CENTER TOWNSHIP
2.1040
0.061581
1.7337
020
EVANSVILLE CITY-CENTER TOWNSHI
3.3675
0.061581
2.8807
021
DARMSTADT TOWN CENTER TOWNSHIP
2.2637
0.061581
1.8956
022
GERMAN TOWNSHIP
2.1006
0.061581
1.7520
023
DARMSTADT TOWN-GERMAN TOWNSHIP
2.2548
0.061581
1.8785
024
PERRY TOWNSHIP
2.0902
0.061581
1.7370
025
EVANSVILLE CITY-PERRY TOWNSHIP
3.3674
0.061581
2.8816
026
KNIGHT TOWNSHIP
2.1784
0.061581
1.7613
027
EVANSVILLE CITY-KNIGHT TOWNSHI
3.3564
0.061581
2.8704
028
PIGEON TOWNSHIP
2.3828
0.061581
1.9982
029
EVANSVILLE CITY-PIGEON TOWNSHI
3.4482
0.061581
2.9485
030
SCOTT TOWNSHIP
2.1880
0.061581
1.8242
031
DARMSTADT TOWN-SCOTT TOWNSHIP
2.2426
0.061581
1.8799
032
UNION TOWNSHIP – REAL
2.2457
0.061581
1.9126
033
UNION TOWNSHIP – PERSONAL
2.2457
0.061581
1.9126
034
EVANSVILLE CITY – KNIGHT TWP PHASE IN ANNEXATION
0.0000
0.061581
2.8704
035
EVANSVILLE CITY – PIGEON TWP PHASE IN ANNEXATION
0.0000
0.061581
2.9485
036
EVANSVILLE CITY – KNIGHT TWP (TIF MEMO ONLY)
0.0000
0.061581
1.1958
037
EVANSVILLE CITY-KNIGHT TWP BURK ORG (TIF MEMO ONL
1.3304
0.061581
1.1958
038
EVANSVILLE CITY KNIGHT TWP BURK EXP (TIF MEMO ONL
1.3304
0.061581
1.1958
“The project will not increase property taxes.” (Mayor Winnecke)
__
Actually it won’t increase them directly so the Mayor is not lying. He is using the truth to tell a lie though. What TIF districts do is shift property taxes to others outside of the TIF but in the same census tract. Winnecke’s hotel will indeed cause taxes to be increased at a later date when the money used in the hotel is needed for something else. He will never admit it.
Do you really mean to tell me that if the proposed local government budget is X amount of $$$, and if the Tax Increment Finance District is allowed to “sequester” (there is that word again) a certain percentage of property taxes raised within the TIF District for use solely within the district, that a disproportionate of amount of property taxes must be paid by everyone in order to meet the cost of that proposed budget?
Boy I hope that never becomes public knowledge or the myth of TIF will be exploded for sure.
The only use for TIF is in severely blighted urban areas for which it was created. It has been bastardized in Evansville into things like the Burkhardt Road TIF, which far from being a “blighted” area was some of the most EXPENSIVE real estate in Evansville when the TIF was created.
So, a little question is in order here: The Burkhardt Road commercial property owners got their infrastructure, which made their properties worth even more, and the taxpayer’s got the TIF Bond payments, when do the taxpayers get their money back?
___
The shit will really hit the fan if the TIF capture is not sufficient to pay the bonds off. TIF in theory can only capture “new” taxes but when the “new” taxes are too low the bonds still have to be paid. The same goes for riverboat funds committed to pay for these frivolous projects. When that revenue is not sufficient the taxpayer eats the difference. If Winnecke says different then he is a damn liar.
Building the hotel is a good thing to do. Good video Mayor.
Said the parrot! Brawk, Coo – Coo
So many false assumptions in this address, so little time, but I’ll try to be brief…
The assertion that there will be “more heads in beds” is ludicrous. Building a hotel to meet a non-existent increase in demand does not magically create customers for a business. Those customers, IF they come to this new downtown hotel, will be taken from other hotels in the area. So, no, you will not create new business, you will merely spread the existing customers across a larger number of hotels.
Because of this principle of economics, that you don’t create a larger demand for a service simply by offering more of it, there will be no appreciable boost in the innkeeper’s tax. If anything, a new downtown hotel built with taxpayer subsidies will push some other hotel or hotels in the area out of business. Any new permanent jobs created at this new hotel will be jobs lost from some other area of town. The net effect will be zero.
This is not Field of Dreams. Mayor Winnecke is not Kevin Costner. No matter how much he might try to argue the contrary, the fact remains, if he builds it, they may not come, and even if they DO come, those customers would come at the expense of other competing hotels in the City.
Mayor Winnecke, nor anyone else, can create an increase in aggregate demand for hotel rooms simply by building another hotel in the City. Demand is based on larger factors such as overall employment, wages, and production in the larger economy. These are all factors outside of the control of ANY politician at any level.
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