The City County Observer will be posting an IS IT TRUE that addresses the resolution regarding the hotel today at 3:38. Please come back and read it as there is some pertinent information that we are verifying right now.
Tax Increment Financing: A Tool for Local Economic Development Richard F. Dye and David F. Merriman
Tax Increment Financing: A Tool for Local Economic Development
Richard F. Dye and David F. Merriman
Tax increment financing (TIF) is an alluring tool that allows municipalities to promote economic development by earmarking property tax revenue from increases in assessed values within a designated TIF district. Proponents point to evidence that assessed property value within TIF districts generally grows much faster than in the rest of the municipality and infer that TIF benefits the entire municipality. Our own empirical analysis, using data from Illinois, suggests to the contrary that the non-TIF areas of municipalities that use TIF grow no more rapidly, and perhaps more slowly, than similar municipalities that do not use TIF. An important finding is that TIF has different impacts when land use is considered. For example, commercial TIF districts tend to decrease commercial development in the non-TIF portion of the municipality.
Designating a TIF District
The rules for tax increment financing, and even its name, vary across the 48 states in which the practice is authorized. The designation usually requires a finding that an area is “blighted†or “underdeveloped†and that development would not take place “but for†the public expenditure or subsidy. It is only a bit of an overstatement to characterize the “blight†and “but for†findings as merely pro forma exercises, since specialized consultants can produce the needed evidence in almost all cases. In most states, the requirement for these findings does little to restrict the location of TIF districts.
TIF expenditures are often debt financed in anticipation of future tax revenues. The practice dates to California in 1952, where it started as an innovative way of raising local matching funds for federal grants. TIF became increasingly popular in the 1980s and 1990s, when there were declines in subsidies for local economic development from federal grants, state grants, and federal tax subsidies (especially industrial development bonds). In many cases TIF is “the only game in town†for financing local economic development.
The basic rules of the game are illustrated in Figure 1. The top panel shows a land area view of a hypothetical municipality. The area on the western border is designated a TIF district and its assessed value is measured. The lower panel of Figure 1 shows the base-year property values in the TIF (B) and the non-TIF (N) areas. At a later point in time, assessed property values have grown to include the increment (I) in the TIF district and growth (G) in the non-TIF area of the municipality.
Tax increment financing carves out the increment (I) and reserves it for the exclusive use of the economic development authority, while the base-year assessed value (B) stays in the local government tax base. Thus,
Before-TIF value = before TIF local government tax base = B + N;
After-TIF value = B + N + I + G;
After-TIF tax base available to local governments = B + N + G; and
TIF district authority’s tax base = I.
Impacts on Overlapping Governments and Non-TIF Areas
The value increment (I) is the tax base of the TIF district. In most states (like Illinois, but unlike Massachusetts) there are multiple overlapping local governments, e.g., the municipality, school district, community college district, county, township, park district, library district, and other special districts. Figure 2 illustrates this situation with the school district representing all the nonmunicipal governments. To understand the economics and politics of TIF, it is crucial to note that while the municipality makes the TIF adoption decision, the TIF area value is part of the tax base of the school district and other local governments as well. Moreover, the TIF district gets revenues from the increment times the combined tax rate for all local governments together. The following hypothetical tax rates for a group of local governments overlapping a TIF district are close to the average proportions in Illinois.
Municipal tax rate = 0.15 %
School district tax rate = 0.60 %
Other governments’ tax rate = 0.25 %
Combined tax rate = 1.00 %
For each 15 cents of its own would-be tax revenues the municipality puts on the line, the school district and other local governments contribute another 85 cents. Thus, there may be an incentive for municipalities to “capture†revenue from growth that would have occurred in the absence of TIF (to collect taxes that would have gone to school districts). Or, municipal decision makers may favor inefficient economic development strategies that do not result in public benefits worth the full cost, since their own cost is only 15 cents on the dollar. TIF proponents would counter that nothing is captured, because the increment to the tax base would not exist “but for†the TIF authority expenditure. That argument, of course, turns on what would have happened to property values in the absence of TIF.
If, as municipalities are often required to assert when they adopt TIF, all of the increment is attributable to the activities of the TIF development authority, then TIF is fair, in that the school district is not giving up any would-be revenues. If, as critics of TIF sometimes assert or assume, none of the increment is attributable to the TIF and all of the new property value growth would have occurred anyway, then the result is just a reallocation of tax revenues by which municipalities win and school districts lose.
The impact of TIF on growth in property values requires a careful reading of the evidence. It is wrong, as those who look only at growth within the TIF district in effect do, to assume to know the answer. Part of the solution is to use appropriate tools to statistically control for other determinants of growth.
It is also necessary to take into account the potential for reverse causality. We want to know the extent to which TIF adoption causes growth. But the causation could go the other way; anticipated growth in property values could lead to TIF adoption if municipalities attempt to capture revenues from overlapping governments. Or there could be reverse causation bias if TIF is adopted in desperation by municipal decision makers in areas where low growth is anticipated. Either way we should ask: Are the municipalities that adopt TIF systematically different from those that do not? If the municipalities are systematically different, we must statistically disentangle the effect of that difference from the effect of the TIF using a technique that corrects for what economists call “sample selection bias.â€
Impacts on Growth and Property Values
There are two sides to any government budget: revenues and expenditures. As a revenue-side mechanism, TIF is a way of earmarking tax revenues for a particular purpose, in this case local economic development. The effectiveness of economic development expenditures depends on opportunities, incentives, and planning skills that are specific to each local area and each project. By combining data from a large number of TIF and non-TIF municipalities, we can ask: On average and overall, is TIF adoption associated with increased growth in municipal property values? We have addressed this question in two research studies, both of which use statistical controls for the other determinants of growth and for reverse causation due to sample selection bias.
The first study (Dye and Merriman 2000) uses data from 235 Chicago area municipalities and covers preadoption, TIF adoption (or not), and postadoption time periods. We control for the selection bias (reverse causation) problem by first predicting which municipalities adopt TIF and then using that information (a statistic called the inverse Mills ratio) when estimating the effect of TIF adoption on property values in a second stage. Use of selection bias correction was first applied to the study of TIF by John Anderson (1990) and is now standard practice.
Our estimates of the impact of TIF have a number of additional variables controlling for home-rule status, the combined tax rate, population, income per capita, poverty rate, nonresidential share of equalized assessed value (EAV), EAV per square mile, distance to the Chicago loop, and county of location. We found that property values in TIF-adopting municipalities grew at the same rate as or even less rapidly than in nonadopting municipalities. The study design did not get at this directly, but the offset seemed to come from smaller growth in non-TIF area of the municipality (lower G).
Our findings were a surprise to those, especially nonacademics, who naively had inferred TIF caused growth by observing growth within a TIF district (I) without any statistical controls for the other determinants of growth (in I or G). Our findings were quite threatening to those with an interest in TIF, such as local economic development officers who spend the earmarked funds or TIF consultants who are paid for documenting findings of “blight†or “but for.†Our findings were also at odds with an Indiana study that found a positive effect of TIF adoption on housing values (Man and Rosentraub 1998).
Because our findings were controversial, because the effect of TIF was unsettled in the academic literature, and particularly because we wanted to pursue the possibility of a negative cross relationship between growth in the TIF district (I) and growth outside the TIF district (G), we undertook a second study (Dye and Merriman 2003). In addition we wanted to look at whether there are different TIF effects when more municipalities are included and different types of land uses are considered. We used three different data sets: property value data for 246 municipalities in the six-county Chicago area; less complete property value data for 1,242 municipalities in all 102 Illinois counties; and property value data for 247 TIF districts in the six-county Chicago area.
For the six-county sample (similar to our earlier study, but with more years and more municipalities), Table 1 presents the pre- and postadoption growth rates for the TIF-adopting and nonadopting municipalities. These calculations are from raw data, before any statistical controls for other growth determinants or corrections for selection bias. The first row compares EAV growth rates of the TIF-adopting and nonadopting municipalities in the period before any of them adopted TIF. EAV grew slightly faster for municipalities that would later adopt TIF.
The second row shows that in the period after TIF adoptions took place, gross-of-TIF EAV grew less rapidly for TIF adopters. The last row shows that the net-of-TIF EAV growth rate for TIF adopters was even lower, suggesting that growth (I) in the TIF district may come at the expense of property values outside the development area (G). In summary, if we make no statistical adjustment for the effects of other determinants, TIF adopters grew more slowly than nonadopters.
When we use the more recent six-county data in a multivariate regression model with statistical controls for local characteristics and sample selection, we no longer get the earlier provocative result of a significantly negative impact of TIF adoption on growth, but we still find no positive impact of TIF adoption on the growth in citywide property values. Any growth in the TIF district is offset by declines elsewhere.
The second study was designed with particular attention to land use. The property value data is broken into three land use types: residential, commercial, and industrial. Each TIF district also is identified by one of five development purpose types: central business district (CBD), commercial, industrial, housing, and other or mixed purpose. Thus, we can look separately at growth in municipal EAV by type of land use and type of TIF. Unfortunately, the data do not record EAV by land use within TIF districts, so we must settle for the growth in the tax base that is available to local governments. Most of the estimates of effects by land use type are not significantly different than zero. However, commercial and industrial TIF districts both show a significantly negative impact on growth in commercial assessed values outside the district.
The second study also extends the analysis to all 102 Illinois counties, which results in a much larger sample of municipalities (see Table 2). The TIF-base EAV (B) is unavailable, so we look at growth in available EAV. The simple means from the larger sample again suggest a negative effect of TIF on growth in property values. When we use this all-county sample to estimate the impact of TIF in a multivariate regression with statistical controls for other growth determinants and for TIF selection, there is a significantly negative impact of TIF adoption on growth in overall available (non-TIF) property values. This revives the earlier hypothesis that TIF adoption actually reduces property values in the larger community.
When we run separate regressions for available EAV growth by type of land use for the all-county sample, we see more evidence of a zero or negative impact of TIF on property value growth. Again, there is a significant “cannibalization†of commercial EAV outside the TIF district from commercial development within the TIF district.
The TIF district sample of the second study includes 247 TIF districts in 100 different municipalities in the six-county Chicago area. We match TIF base (B) and TIF increment (I) in each year to information for the host municipality. The key results are:
Enormous variation in TIF district size, with an average base of around $11 million.
Enormous variation in TIF district EAV growth rates around an average of 24 percent growth per year.
TIF districts that start with a smaller base tend to have higher rates of growth.
Most of the TIF growth occurs in the first several years, and growth rates decline an average of about 1 percent per year after the initial surge.
Growth rates in the host municipalities are generally much smaller in the TIF district (an average of 3 percent compared to the TIF average of 24 percent).
The estimated relationship between TIF growth and municipality growth is U-shaped; starting from zero, higher growth in the host municipality means lower growth in the TIF district, but the relationship turns positive at a host municipality growth level of about 6 percent.
Conclusion
Tax increment financing is an alluring tool. TIF districts grow much faster than other areas in their host municipalities. TIF boosters or naive analysts might point to this as evidence of the success of tax increment financing, but they would be wrong. Observing high growth in an area targeted for development is unremarkable. The issues we have studied are (1) whether the targeting causes the growth or merely signals that growth is coming; and (2) whether the growth in the targeted area comes at the expense of other parts of the same municipality. We find evidence that the non-TIF areas of municipalities that use TIF grow no more rapidly, and perhaps more slowly, than similar municipalities that do not use TIF.
Policy makers should use TIF with caution. It is, after all, merely a way of financing economic development and does not change the opportunities for development or the skills of those doing the development planning. Moreover, policy makers should pay careful attention to land use when TIF is being considered. Our evidence shows that commercial TIF districts reduce commercial property value growth in the non-TIF part of the same municipality. This is not terribly surprising, given that much of commercial property is retailing and most retail trade needs to be located close to its customer base. That is, if you subsidize a store in one location there will be less demand to have a store in a nearby location. Industrial land use, in theory, is different. Industrial goods are mostly exported and sold outside the local area, so a local offset would not be expected. Our evidence is generally consistent with this prediction of no offset in industrial property growth in non-TIF areas of the same municipality.
Richard F. Dye is a visiting fellow at the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy in 2005–2006. He is also the Ernest A. Johnson Professor of Economics at Lake Forest College, Lake Forest, Illinois, and adjunct professor at the Institute of Government and Public Affairs, University of Illinois. Contact: dye@lakeforest.edu
David F. Merriman is professor of economics at Loyola University of Chicago and adjunct professor at the Institute of Government and Public Affairs, University of Illinois. Contact: dmerrim@luc.edu
References
Anderson, John E. 1990. Tax increment financing: Municipal adoption and growth. National Tax Journal 43: 155–163.
Dye, Richard F., and David F. Merriman. 2000. The effects of tax increment financing on economic development. Journal of Urban Economics 47: 306–328.
———. 2003. The effect of tax increment financing on land use, in Dick Netzer (ed.), The property tax, land use, and land-use regulation. Cheltenham, UK: Edward Elgar, 37–61.
Dye, Richard F., and Jeffrey O. Sundberg. 1998. A model of tax increment financing adoption incentives. Growth and Change 29: 90–110.
Johnson, Craig L., and Joyce Y. Man (eds.). 2001. Tax increment financing and economic development: Uses, structures and impact. Albany: State University of New York Press.
Man, Joyce Y., and Mark S. Rosentraub. 1998. Tax increment financing: Municipal adoption and effects on property value growth. Public Finance Review 26: 523–547.
IS IT TRUE? December 19, 2011 Park Two
IS IT TRUE? December 19, 2011
IS IT TRUE that Evansville Mayor Jonathan Weinzapfel was manufacturing news again yesterday in announcing a new park to commemorate the Bicentennial of Evansville?…that the location of the park that had some pretty pictures of it is the full block that contains the old Greyhound Bus station?…that this lot where the new park is proposed contains just under four acres?…that Mayor Weinzapfel did not mention any details like the COST to build the park, who will MAINTAIN the park, whether that block is ZONED for a park, and especially WHERE DID THE AUTHORITY TO EMBARK UPON A PARK COME FROM?
IS IT TRUE that there is currently a park project that is being undertaken with mostly private money at the corner of 4th and Main?…that this park has been around for many years but has deteriorated in the last 4 or 5 years to be a hangout for homeless people and an open air market for drug dealers?…that pictures have been taken from downtown Evansville office buildings of drug exchanging hands in broad daylight?…that these pictures were made available to both law enforcement and the Mayor three years ago yet the practice of dealing drugs from that park continues?…that if the City of Evansville cannot or will not do what it takes to maintain the one acre park at 4th and Main and to keep drug dealers at bay then we seriously question the wisdom of building another park that is only two blocks away?…that as much as the CCO likes and approve of urban green space the City of Evansville has not shown that it is capable of taking care of such things?…that the CCO still is waiting for an updated master plan as one has not been undertaken or approved since the Russ Lloyd Jr. Administration?
IS IT TRUE that the Evansville Icemen are having their first slump of the season?…that yesterday’s game which turned out to be an entertaining overtime only drew about 2,500 people to the Ford Center?…that the Icemen came out on the losing end of this game but that they are still cruising along in 2nd place of the Turner Division?…that as the year wears on we will learn just how many hockey fans there really are in Evansville and will start to get a better grip on the accuracy of expecting 3,500 tickets to be sold per game?…that the UE Purple Aces put up a decent game against Tennessee Tech on Saturday before losing by 2 points?…that 2 point games at home are games that are supposed to be won by the home team?…that only 3,500 showed up for that Aces game and that if the winning does not kick it up a notch when the MVC conference schedule starts it may be a long season on the court and at the box office for this year’s edition of Purple Aces?
IS IT TRUE that the CCO reader’s polls for the last week concluded with a 5 to 1 majority expressing the belief that it is unethical of the Weinzapfel Administration to jam through large spending measures in its last days?…that the readers are pretty enthusiastic about the appointments that have been announced by the Winnecke Administration?…that by a 15 to 1 margin the readers do not have faith that the Hunden report lead to an action that they have faith will bring a profitable hotel to downtown Evansville?…that by a 10 to 1 margin our readers believe that Mayor Weinzapfel should return every dollar that he got in political contributions as a result of the failed McCurdy project to the coffers of the City of Evansville to partially cover the losses incurred by the people of Evansville for his blundering?
IS IT TRUE? December 19, 2011
IS IT TRUE? December 19, 2011
IS IT TRUE that Habitat for Humanity is celebrating the fact that they have now put the finishing touches on their 400th house in Evansville?…that this accomplishment punctuates 400 stories of people who have worked hard putting sweat equity into a home of their own?…that each of the 400 Habitat for Humanity home represents a big win for one individual or family who found a path to the American dream of home ownership through Habitat for Humanity?…that it would be nice to report that such programs has as positive of an effect on a community as they do on the individuals who are selected to benefit personally?
IS IT TRUE that while Habitat for Humanity has completed what sounds like a very large number of homes in a town the size of Evansville yet according to Tom Barnett, the Director of Metropolitan Development there are still 10,000 abandoned homes 8,000 of which need over $100,000 each to be made habitable?…that if Habitat for Humanity were planning to solve the problem of abandoned or uninhabitable in Evansville that they would now be 4% completed after 20+ years of efforts?…that according to the US Census there about 3,000 more abandoned homes in Evansville than there were 10 years ago?…that those who are naïve enough to think that 17, 42, or even 100 Front Door Pride homes are going to have a far reaching effect on the community need to examine the big picture impact of Habitat for Humanity?…that programs like Habitat and FDP do indeed create personal successes for the few at the expense of the many, there are very few cases where such programs have been truly transformational in the big picture of community?
IS IT TRUE that the CCO has heard talk of a real project that is considering incorporating the McCurdy Hotel, the River House, and the adjacent property to put together a high quality privately financed lodging complex that will be named McCurdy Place?…that at least this does not have the name Center, Central, or Centre proposed for it?…that we hope there will be more news soon on this innovative alternative to the downtown Evansville monopoly game of buying hotels and condos with government money?…that the Evansville Redevelopment Commission has the McCurdy on tomorrow’s agenda?
IS IT TRUE that the leading economic indicators for kicking of a campaign for President of the United States are at the most negative points ever since the end of WWII when an incumbent president was on the ballot?…that the present “official†unemployment rate of 8.6% is 20% higher than the previous high for a winning incumbent (Reagan) of 7.2%?…that Presidents Bush I, Carter, and Ford were all defeated with unemployment rates in the mid 7% range?…that the current change in household net worth from the previous year is negative 1.7%?…that there has never even been an election since WWII where this indicator was negative?…that the change in after tax income per person is currently Negative 0.8%?…that this metric has also never been negative since WWII?…that taking the big picture metric of GDP change from a year earlier that the current number is an anemic 1.5% which is the second lowest since WWII?…that only President Carter in 1980 ran with a lower GDP change of NEGATIVE 0.1%?…that given the record setting overall lowest rankings for economic indicators if people truly vote with their pockets it would appear that President Barack Obama is heading for the speaking circuit and book tours in 2013?…that this guy would not bet against a second presidency for President Obama in spite of the state of the economy?…that the reason is that the non-working and non-tax-paying class seems to have improved their lot during the last 4 years and their numbers are large enough to determine the next election?
ERC draft Agenda: 12-20-2011 McCurdy on Agenda
ERC draft_agenda_12-20-11_erc
Zac Brown Band coming to Ford Center
Date: December 28, 2011
Time: 7:00 PM
Doors Open: 6:00 PM
Seating: View Seating Chart
Ticket Prices: $45.50 – $64.50
Grammy-Award winning Zac Brown Band is bringing its dynamic southern rock act to the FORD CENTER on Wednesday, December 28th. The 45th Annual Country Music Association (CMA) Awards is coming up and Zac Brown Band has received five nominations, including Best Vocal Group, Best Album (You Get What You Give) and Best Song (“Colder Weatherâ€). Tickets go on sale Saturday, Nov. 12 at 9:00 a.m.
Harrison Track to be Renamed During Public Ceremony
The EVSC and EVSC Foundation will officially name Harrison High School’s new track as the Charlie Siesky Track at a dedication ceremony planned for Friday, Jan. 6, at 7:25 p.m., in Harrison’s gymnasium.
The event, which is open to the public, will include remarks by EVSC Superintendent David Smith, Kevin Eastridge, chair of the Siesky Track committee, and Charlie Siesky.
Siesky, coach of Harrison High School’s Track & Field and Cross Country programs from 1967 through 1999, accumulated a number of records and accolades during his tenure of both programs, including being named to the Indiana Track & Cross Country Coaches Hall of Fame; winning 93 percent of dual meets and 50 percent of city, conference and sectional titles; and accumulating 68 straight dual meet wins from 1979 – 1992 and 51 straight wins from 1970 to 1979. Siesky also coached three state champions during his tenure including Bob Winchell, Vaughn Wedeking and Don Sellers. In addition, Siesky accumulated:
• A Track Dual Meet Record of 198-14-2
• 37 City Meet Titles
• 33 SIAC Meet Titles
• 29 Sectional Titles
• 9 Regional Titles, 3 – 2nd place titles and 5 – 3rd place titles
“EVSC and EVSC Foundation are proud to honor an individual who had such a great impact on many students during his 32-year tenure,†said David Smith, EVSC superintendent. “His record speaks for itself, but maybe more importantly Coach Siesky served as a great role model for students. His legacy will live on through the naming of the track.â€
Downtown Today: 12/19/2011
Time 9:30 AM – 10:30 AM
Subject COMMERCIAL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Location 318
Recurrence Occurs every Monday effective 12/5/2011 until 1/2/2012 from 9:30 AM to 10:30 AM
Reminder 15 minutes
KATHIE HOLLEY @ 5228
Categories ROOM 318
Time 3:30 PM – 4:30 PM
Subject PORT AUTHORITY
Location 307
Recurrence Occurs the third Monday of every 1 month effective 12/19/2011 until 12/19/2011 from 3:30 PM to 4:30 PM
Reminder 15 minutes
ROBIN HAYES
Categories ROOM 307
Time 5:30 PM – 7:00 PM
Subject CITY COUNCIL
Location 301
Recurrence Occurs every Monday effective 12/5/2011 until 12/26/2011 from 5:30 PM to 7:00 PM
Reminder 15 minutes
LYNN BUHR @ 4993
Categories ROOM 301
IS IT TRUE? December 18, 2011
IS IT TRUE? December 18, 2011
IS IT TRUE that during the last couple of weeks several members of the Mole Nation along with non affiliated civic leaders have told the City County Observer that the $18 Million Wesselman – Roberts Ball Fields project is being prepared to raise its head again in 2012?…that with all of the money that lame duck Mayor Weinzapfel has been committing in his last hours that the City of Evansville will essentially have no money for projects so the Ball Fields may be the only thing even possible to keep some kind of public works project going?…that the Ball Fields as you recall were to be paid for by bonding the cash stream from the innkeepers tax costing the City of Evansville exactly ZERO?…that the City County Observer never ever opposed Ball Fields per se?…that what we did oppose was paying $2 Million per Ball Field since our investigations of similar sports parks revealed that nearly every other sports park was having Ball Fields built for between $250,000 and $650,000 per Ball Field?
IS IT TRUE that if the Convention and Visitors Bureau, previous Ball Field supporters, and the architects keep their costs based somewhere in the realm of reality like say $5 Million for the entire project that the CCO projects that there will be substantial support from the community?…that for the realistic projection of 40,000 visitors per year that an investment of $5 Million could very well be justified leaving the remaining $13 Million for other worthy projects like resurrecting parks?…that the opportunities are only limited by the imagination of the recommendations?…that local visionary Mr. Jordan Baer is absolutely full of ideas and even had a very unique Ball Fields idea that would make Evansville’s Ball Fields if they ever materialize a very attractive and memorable place for kids to have tournaments?
IS IT TRUE that Indiana Democrat Chairman Dan Parker has withdrawn his resignation creating even more backstabbing and discontent within the state party?…that it looks like old Dan is going to be around for this election cycle and into 2013?…that between the leadership of Pat Bauer and Dan Parker the Indiana Democrats have gone from a force to be reckoned with to a band of renegades that run for the border to further legislative agendas?…that the political landscape of the State of Indiana has been permanently altered by these old school dinosaurs who apply party rules with geographic preferences?
IS IT TRUE that the 200th birthday of Evansville kicks off today with a party at the Ford Center hosted of course the paparazzi seeking Mayor Weinzapfel?…that this does look to be shaping up as a 200 day opportunity to celebrate, appreciate, and learn about our history?…that we were surprised to learn that that Hugh McGary, the pioneer/entrepreneur who put that first building that was also a business in what is now downtown Evansville was only here briefly before hitting the road never to be heard from again?…that we bet that less than 1% of the school children who attend McGary Middle School know the story of High McGary?…that this 200 day birthday party is a good opportunity to instill some pride in the people of Evansville and that it should permeate our schools to seed that pride in the next generation?…that people with pride do not litter, keep their properties looking good, and groom themselves before leaving the house?…that 200 days from now if the pride opportunity is properly put out there that there should be a visible difference in the appearance of Evansville, Indiana?