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Staffing change in the public access counselor’s office creates a backlog of open record decisions

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Staffing change in the public access counselor’s office creates a backlog of open record decisions

Luke Britt, the Hoosier state’s PAC.  Photo from The Indiana Citizen.
In recent years, the Indiana public access counselor had kept a steady pace of posting advisory opinions to its website, reaching as many as 92 in 2021, but by the end of June, the website offered just six decisions for all of 2023.

Luke Britt, the Hoosier state’s PAC, blamed the slowdown on a change in personnel. The small government agency, he said, had been without a program coordinator since April and no one had been available to go through the process of virtually publishing the decisions issued in response to complaints about public access or open records.

A backlog has developed of 54 advisory opinions and 10 informal opinions. Also Britt and his team are working on about another 10 advisory opinions and one informal opinion.

“It does take time. It’s a little bit tedious,” Britt said, explaining the process for posting the issued opinions. “It’s just one of those things that we prioritized other things over that.”

A new program coordinator started June 27 and has been working through the to-be-posted pile. To date, 14 advisory opinions are now available on the counselor’s website.

Although the opinions have not been put online, Britt said all the complainants and respondents have received the decisions completed to date along with any accompanying documents.

The office of the Indiana public access counselor was established by statute and charged with giving advice and guidance on issues of open meetings and open records to the general public, government agencies and state officials. According to its annual reports, the PAC receives more than 500 complaints each year.

All complaints receive a response from the counselor. But the office will answer those that present a unique issue or require a deeper analysis with an advisory opinion. In 2023, the PAC has issued advisory opinions about the Indianapolis-Marion County Public Library Board recessing a meeting about the CEO vacancy when the public became disruptive, then reconvening in a conference room and livestreaming the proceedings to the assembly room; the Elkhart County Prosecutor’s Office refusing to release reports, witness statements and other records surrounding a 1985 disappearance and death of an Elkhart woman; and five members of the Delaware County Council discussing council business during a Republican caucus.

Zachary Baiel, president of the Indiana Coalition for Open Government, said timely release of the advisory opinions is critical since they can inform how best to frame an open records request. The published opinions are a “trove of insight” that details the situation that spurred the complaint and includes references to other PAC decisions and court rulings so readers can go further into the issue if they want.

Consequently, Baiel sees the delay in posting the opinions as penalizing everyone and is skeptical of Britt’s explanation for the backlog.

“That’s a pretty weak excuse because it’s not like they’re doing a write-up summary or anything. It’s literally a link with the title,” Baiel said. “You know, upload the file, link to the file, give that link a title, publish, you’re done.”

‘High-profile analysis’

Since becoming the public access counselor in 2013, Britt has streamlined the process for handling complaints. For public records requests that are very broad and looking more like a legal discovery, he will write a letter advising the complainant to narrow the ask. With other requests, he may flip through his Rolodex of contacts, make a phone call and mediate a solution.

Complaints that “warrant a little closer scrutiny” are assigned a case number. The counselor then sends the complaint to the government agency with a deadline to respond. Once the agency replies, the complainant will have the opportunity to provide a rebuttal or make additional arguments.

Sometimes the agencies will acknowledge a mistake and provide the requested documents. Other times, an agency may submit a legal memo explaining why it denied the public records request.

When a complaint presents newer or complex issues that have not been addressed previously, the PAC crafts an advisory opinion.

“With the opinions that we do published online, … we want to make sure that we’re focusing on issues that request kind of a unique or novel or high-profile analysis,” Britt said, “so we can take a deep dive into that and provide substantive guidance in that way rather than just, ‘Oh, they missed a technical deadline’ or ‘They posted notice 47 hours as opposed to 48’ (hours in advance).”

Baiel compared filing an open records request to a chess match between the individual and the agency. The advisory opinions can help in developing a strategy for getting the documents.

As an example, he pointed to his 2020 request for campaign finance records for the candidates who ran in the 2019 municipal election in Tippecanoe County. The county clerk replied the request encompassed upwards of 57 individuals and responding in 30 days would be a struggle.

To reduce the burden on the staff, Baiel offered to go to the clerk’s office and inspect the records himself rather than having the employees make him copies. Baiel and the clerk engaged in a back-and-forth but when they could not reach a resolution, he filed a complaint with the public access counselor.

Britt wrote the advisory opinion, Baiel v. Tippecanoe County Clerk, 20-FC-12, which found the clerk and the board of elections were not violating the Indiana Access to Public Records Act. The opinion agreed, in part, with the clerk’s assessment that the request lacked “reasonable particularity,” meaning the request was too broad for the clerk’s office to provide the documents quickly.

In reading through the advisory opinion, Baiel changed his strategy. He submitted a new request and listed the candidates by name which got him the information he was seeking.

“Even though I didn’t win the ‘request issue,’ the real victory was you can make these requests and have them immediately or have the expectation of having them immediately if you specify the candidate,” Baiel said. “The real winning statement in here is ’Just be particular when you request documents.’”

Opinions from the counselor are nonbinding and do not have to be followed by either the complainant or agency. For the PAC decisions to have “maximum effectiveness,” Britt said his office has to thread a needle by being careful to avoid “playing gotcha” with the agencies but also to not turn the complaint process into an “exercise in futility” by always siding with the government officials.

“It’s important for me to make sure that my opinions are crafted in a way that not only are legally sound,” Britt said, “but provide good governance advice as well.”

Fueling complaints

Britt estimated by year’s end, his office will have published 80 to 90 advisory opinions. Since 2018, the PAC has averaged 81 advisory opinions annually.

Each year the counselor also publishes informal opinions. Britt described those as an “academic exercise” in which the PAC is asked to provide an interpretation of a statute or give some general guidance. So far in 2023, the office has posted seven, which tops the four published in 2022 and nearly approaches the nine and 10 published in 2021 and 2020, respectively.

To discern what issues might be crossing his desk, Britt keeps an eye on the news.

The fervor boiling around the fear of election fraud brought a flood of complaints about county clerks and election boards in 2022. In particular, the counselor received 17 complaints against 14 counties over “cast vote records”; however, CVRs do not exist, and false rumors about the data being destroyed fueled the complaints.

Britt wrote an informal opinion (which is no longer available on the PAC’s website), noting the ongoing confusion about the information being sought. He ruled his office could not reach a definitive conclusion since “the complainants and respondents cannot agree on the ‘who,’ ‘what,’ ‘when,’ and ‘where.’”

Now the subjects of many complaints have shifted to reflect the controversy surrounding school curriculum and library books.

“A lot of it is driven by the news cycles, and tomorrow it’ll be something completely different,” Britt said.

Baiel called the public access counselor an “important resource” and said the office is accessible and responsive. He noted he is “kind of bothered” by the case numbers on the advisory opinions not following a sequential order, with some numbers being left out altogether.

Britt explained the gap in numbering is created when the complaint is resolved promptly and an opinion is no longer needed. As an example, he highlighted a complaint about the Indianapolis Police Metropolitan Department not responding to a public records request. When Britt called, the department said the request had fallen through the cracks, then the officers contacted the requester.

The complaint, in instances like that, is then withdrawn because the requester is usually satisfied. Britt and his team will stop the process and not write an opinion since the dispute has ended.

Even so, Baiel said the counselor should at least post every complaint that receives a case number regardless of whether an opinion is issued. The public can learn from those complaints and possibly identify problematic patterns, such as an agency consistently losing track of public records requests.

Often traveling around the state, Britt gives presentations, explaining what the public access counselor does and encouraging everyone to use the resource no matter how small the matter.

Britt acknowledged sometimes the complaints do spark questions within the office. The staff may wonder why an issue was important to a complainant or where some individuals find the time to file the complaints.

But, Britt continued, “We realize that it’s not for us to make a value judgment. They should be civically engaged. Who are we to say what level of engagement is appropriate?”

This article was published by TheStatehouseFile.com through a partnership with The Indiana Citizen (indianacitizen.org), a nonpartisan, nonprofit platform dedicated to increasing the number of informed, engaged Hoosier citizens.

Marilyn Odendahl has spent her journalism career writing for newspapers and magazines in Indiana and Kentucky. She has focused her reporting on business, the law and poverty issues.

UE Hires New Director to Grow Graduate Programs

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EVANSVILLE, IND. (07/10/2023) The University of Evansville (UE) is proud to announce the appointment of Dr. Charles “Toby” Ziglar as the new Director of Graduate Enrollment. The University conducted a nationwide search with the assistance of Blue Rock Search to identify a candidate to fill this important role.

In this new role, Dr. Ziglar will be responsible for the creation of the Office of Graduate Enrollment, where his work will help to shape and guide the future of UE’s graduate studies footprint regionally and nationally.

He will serve as a key member of the Enrollment team and will collaborate with various departments across campus on new program development, marketing, recruiting, and financial aid.

With more than two decades of higher education expertise, Dr. Ziglar is known for his administrative leadership, strategic planning, programmatic growth, budgetary oversight, student services, and policy development to elevate enrollment and increase retention.

Previously, he served in roles as Dean of the Graduate School and Director of Graduate and International Admissions at the University of West Georgia, GA; Vice President for Enrollment Management at Bluefield College, VA; Assistant Director of Graduate Admissions at Kennesaw State University, GA, and in other enrollment and academic leadership roles.

Dr. Ziglar’s appointment supports UE’s continued growth in graduate studies.

UE currently offers ten graduate programs focused on health sciences, leadership, psychology, education, and athletic training. Most recently, UE launched the PsyD in Clinical Psychology program and the Master of Science in Education program. The University’s graduate programs are in high demand, and many have full cohorts of students. With continued growth in existing programs and the addition of several new programs, the University expects to bring in 40% more graduate students in 2023 than in 2022.

“As the Director of Graduate Enrollment, Dr. Ziglar will play a pivotal role in shaping the future of our graduate programs by leveraging untapped potential in the local community and beyond,” said Dr. Jill Griffin, vice president for enrollment and marketing. “This is a step forward to fuel additional growth in our flourishing graduate programs.”

“Together, we will expand and enhance the graduate programs at the University of Evansville, ensuring they are responsive to the evolving needs of the global society,” said Dr. Ziglar. “Success for the university lies not only in the enrollment numbers, but in the impact our graduates make on the world. I’m looking forward to empowering our students to thrive academically, professionally, and personally.”

37th ANNUAL INDIANA BLACK & MINORITY HEALTH FAIR TO OFFER NEARLY $4,000 IN FREE HEALTH SCREENINGS

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INDIANAPOLIS —The Indiana Department of Health (IDOH) is encouraging Hoosiers to take advantage of nearly $4,000 in free health screenings during the 37th Indiana Black & Minority Health Fair, being held July 13-16 at the Indiana Convention Center. The theme of this year’s health fair is Healthful Living, which emphasizes the event’s focus on prevention.

“For many Hoosiers, the annual Indiana Black & Minority Health Fair is a one-stop-shop for essential screenings and education that can be life-changing and even life-saving,” said State Health Commissioner Lindsay Weaver, M.D., FACEP. “As we work to reduce the disparities that impact communities of color across the state, it is important that we provide people the tools they need to improve their health. Free services like the health fair help meet that need.”

The health fair will be held in Halls J & K on the following schedule:

  • July 13: Opening ceremony begins at 3 p.m. in rooms 130-132 with speakers including Dr. Weaver, Pastor David Greene Sr. of Purpose of Life Ministries and sponsors; the health fair runs from 4-8 p.m. in Halls J & K.
  • July 14, 1-7 p.m.
  • July 15, 10 a.m.-8 p.m.
  • July 16, noon-6 p.m.

This year’s event will provide back-to-school immunizations for children ages 5 years and older, screenings and education for cholesterol, diabetes, blood pressure, HIV, hepatitis C, hearing and more. Clinical breast exams will be offered, along with vision and hearing screenings. Community Health Network will provide school sports physicals at no cost on a first-come, first-served basis from 1 to 6 p.m., Friday, July 14, and from noon to 6 p.m.  Saturday, July 15, and Sunday, July 16. Individuals receiving vaccines are asked to bring proof of insurance if they have it. A complete schedule can be found at https://www.inbmhf.com/schedule.

In addition, birth and death certificates can be purchased on site. Birth certificates are available for $10, and death certificates cost $8.

Panel discussion topics include palliative care and end-of-life planning, youth cancer awareness, aging and family support, breastfeeding and maternal health, child language development, substance use recovery programs and mental health.

Antoniette Holt, director of the Office of Minority Health at IDOH, said the health fair would not be possible without the dedication of its sponsors, who donate time and resources each year to help improve the health of Hoosiers.

“Improving the health of Hoosiers, especially our vulnerable populations, requires a community effort, and our partners step up every year to make a difference in people’s lives,” Holt said. “I am incredibly grateful to our sponsors who continue to make the health fair a priority for their organizations.”

This year’s mainstage, platinum and gold health fair sponsors are Eli Lilly and Co., Community Health Network, Johnson & Johnson, Indiana University Health, Eskenazi Health, the Marion County Public Health Department, MDwise and WISH-TV.

Free transportation will be offered on a first-come, first-served basis on Sunday, July 16, from the Global Village Welcome Center, 4233 Lafayette Road, Indianapolis, on the following schedule:

Depart Global Village at 1 and 3 p.m. Sunday, July 16. Return from Indiana Convention Center at approximately 3:15 and 5 p.m.

This Week at USI

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Below is a list of events and activities happening in and around the USI community this week:

UPCOMING EVENTS

Thursday, July 13

Board of Trustees to meet

The USI Board of Trustees will meet at 10 a.m. Thursday, July 13 in the Griffin Center on campus.

More info


Now through July 29

Franken-Flowers & Vase-Ensteins exhibition on display at USI New Harmony Gallery of Contemporary Art

USI’s New Harmony Gallery of Contemporary Art is proud to present Franken-Flowers & Vase-Ensteins, a group exhibition showcasing a class project from the 2023 Spring Semester advanced ceramics courses.

Read more


Now through August 5

Artist Jacinda Russell on display at USI New Harmony Gallery of Contemporary Art

USI’s New Harmony Gallery of Contemporary Art is proud to present Metaphorical Antipodes: Stories of Ice, featuring photography and sculpture works by Jacinda Russell.

Read more



SAVE THE DATE

August 10-11

Mid-America Institute on Aging and Wellness returns to USI campus August 10-11

USI and SWIRCA and More, a local agency on aging, will present the 16th annual Mid-America Institute on Aging and Wellness (MAIA) August 10-11 on the USI campus.

Read more


October 5-7

USI Communal Studies Association Conference to explore communal theory, practice and impact

The Communal Studies Association (CSA) Conference will meet Thursday through Saturday, October 5-7, on the USI campus and in New Harmony, Indiana. The theme for the 2023 Conference is “Communal Theory, Practice and Impact,” in recognition of the 50th anniversary of the CSA.

Read more


October 21

USI Norwegian Foot March returning to campus

The 19th annual USI ROTC Norwegian Foot March, an intense mental and physical challenge, sponsored by the USI Student Veteran Association, will take participants 18.6 miles through the rolling hills of Evansville’s west side on October 21. Carrying a 25-pound rucksack, participants will begin and end on the USI campus, working to make it back to the finish line in roughly under four and a half hours.

Read more


IN CASE YOU MISSED IT

Released Thursday, July 6

$18.5 million USI Health Professions Center renovations underway

An $18.5 million renovation of USI’s Health Professions Center, which houses the University’s College of Nursing and Health Professions, began in early May, promising not only a fresh look for portions of the interior of the 29-year-old building, but more importantly, state-of-the-art laboratory equipment to enhance student learning and highlight the latest in healthcare technology. The renovations also poise many programs for future growth.

Read more



 

HOT JOBS

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Not quite the win they think it is

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Not quite the win they think it is

When the Indiana Supreme Court upheld the state’s draconian abortion ban, Hoosier opponents of reproductive rights did victory dances.

Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita took a break from starting senseless fights and looking for ways to run for whatever office might be available to him. He had his office issued this statement:

“We celebrate this day—one long in coming, but morally justified. Thank you to all the warriors who have fought for this day that upholds LIFE.”

U.S. Sen. Mike Braun, R-Indiana, also did some crowing. He’s running for governor.

“Life wins in Indiana. I’m proud that with today’s court decision, Indiana will continue to be a national leader for protecting the unborn and saving thousands of lives. I join the countless Hoosiers who helped win this victory for life in celebrating this historic day,” his statement read.

Rokita and Braun—neither of whom is renowned as a deep thinker or devoted student—might have curtailed their celebrations.

Close readings of the court’s three opinions—the majority one, a concurring one, and a somewhat dissenting one—reveal the justices’ profound uneasiness with the issue of abortion and the hasty crusade by Indiana rightwing politicians to impose bans.

What the court firmly rejected was the broad argument that the Indiana constitution prohibits state government from adopting any restrictions on abortion at any time.

That shouldn’t be surprising.

Few if any rights are absolute.

We have, for example, rights to speak freely guaranteed by both the U.S. and Indiana constitutions. But those guarantees can’t prevent government officials from passing laws prohibiting people from texting while driving 80 miles per hour through a school zone.

The greater public has rights that must be balanced against those of the individual.

That’s a reality that escapes many of our radicalized lawmakers.

The court’s majority opinion recognizes this—and all but sends engraved invitations for future litigation regarding Indiana’s abortion ban. It says that, while the ban can’t be struck down simply on its face, there may be parts of it that do violate the Constitution.

This should trouble anti-abortion activists.

Following the ruling, Indiana Senate President Pro Tem Rodric Bray, R-Martinsville, did some chest-thumping. He said the Indiana General Assembly set out during last year’s special session to craft a law that would stand up to a constitutional challenge.

Bray’s implication was that the lawmakers had acted deliberately and carefully.

If Bray said that with a straight face, he must have been smoking something.

When the legislators gathered to rush through the abortion ban following the U.S. Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision, they moved with all the care and deliberation of hyperkinetic toddlers let loose in a bounce house without adult supervision.

They refused to listen to doctors and medical professionals. They turned deaf ears to lawyers and constitutional scholars pointing out problematic aspects of the law they were considering. They clamped on their earmuffs when business leaders expressed concern about how such a severe restriction of personal liberty would impact efforts to recruit talented workers and attract investors.

Perhaps most important, they made it clear they didn’t want to hear from the millions of women whose lives and health would be affected by their hasty persecution.

The only voices the lawmakers wanted to hear were the ones shouting amen.

Well, their law survived its first and easiest challenge.

But not without the state’s conservative Supreme Court justices expressing misgivings about the law the Indiana General Assembly rushed onto the books.

Tougher challenges await.

My old employer, the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana, has filed suit arguing that the abortion ban violates Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

RFRA, as it came to be known, also was a cause dear to many of the lawmakers who pushed through the abortion ban. It says that individual businesspeople have rights of conscience and thus may discriminate against gay people if they believe their faith calls them to do so.

The U.S. Supreme Court just supported such a concept, ruling that Colorado could not compel a website designer to provide services for a gay couple wishing to marry.

If the Indiana Supreme Court decides RFRA does not apply to the abortion ban, the state’s justices will be contending that website designers and bakers have rights of conscience but doctors and patients whose faith traditions do not prohibit abortion don’t have the same rights.

Interesting times we Hoosiers live in.

FOOTNOTE: John Krull is director of Franklin College’s Pulliam School of Journalism and publisher of TheStatehouseFile.com, a news website powered by Franklin College journalism students. The views expressed are those of the author only and should not be attributed to Franklin College.

The City-County Observer posted this article with bias or editing

The Right Place at the Right Time: The Journey of an Evansville Attorney

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The Right Place at the Right Time: The Journey of an Evansville Attorney

By Xain Ballenger, The City-County Observer

In the Heart of Downtown Evansville, on the 4th floor of 20 N.W. Third Street, attorney David Jones and his partners Paul Wallace, and Craig Emig have their own law firm.

They have a combined legal experience of 100 years, with Jones handling more private litigation and corporate practice, Emig being the Assistant County Attorney, and Wallace representing an array of tri-state businesses and their owners in all matters.

Jones said his wife refers to him as “Forrest Gump, with a little higher IQ” because of how he has managed to be “at the right place, at the right time for a lot of stuff.”

Jones’s story began in 1947 in a town called Elkton, Maryland. The town is right at the head of the Chesapeake Bay, where the corner of Maryland comes together with Pennsylvania and Delaware.

His next recollection was that his stepfather was stationed in Austria after World War II.  Jones said that Austria was divided into Russian, British, French, and American zones and that the country was also occupied like Nazi Germany. Jones and his mother and stepfather were in the American zone; however, the town where the American base was located in Hitler’s birthplace of Linz, Austria.

Jones attended the first grade in an Army Dependents School for civilian families.  “That was pretty cool because when I came back to the States, I could probably speak as much German as I could, English, but I forgot all of it except for the swear words,” Jones jokes.

Jones graduated from Rising Sun High School in Maryland. He said it was a small school, and around the area, there were five white high schools and one black school.  “I had black friends that I ran around with, and then I had white kids that would curse you and say bad things because you hung around with black kids. And I was raised that that wasn’t something that you did, you respected all people and you respected all religions, that was something that was ingrained by my grandmother,” Jones said.

Jones went on to discuss his grandfather saying that he was a “big influence” on his life. He said that his grandfather lost his eyesight in World War I, and raised a family through the Great Depression. Jones said he wasn’t a hard man, but that he had “strong discipline.”

Jones mentioned that when he came home from school he couldn’t do “squat” until his homework was finished.

“He had these rules, lights out at 10 o’clock at night, He would go around and check all the doors and stuff. Make sure everything was locked. He got up at the same time… which was good for me because it instilled discipline,” Jones said.

Jones said the reason he wanted to go into a military academy was because of how much he looked up to his grandfather. “Everything I did in school was directed at that. I studied hard, I got good grades, I was in National Honor Society, I played varsity sports, I lettered, I was in Student Council, I was a regional parliamentarian for Regional student government in Maryland,” Jones said.

Jones said that he didn’t care which academy he got into, because “it was free education, and I could be an officer.”  He had an appointment at the US Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York. “The Merchant Marine Academy is one of the five federal academies and it’s under the Commerce Department. And so, you are sworn in as a cadet Midshipman in the Naval Reserve, just like the cadets at the Naval Academy, and your uniforms are almost identical,” Jones said.

 

Jones said his path was to graduate from Kings Point and then pick a branch of service. “I did well in the military subjects I had, I was on the silent drill team, I went out for the boxing team, I was on the debate team, but when I hit the calculus it just crossed my eyes,” Jones said.

Jones said that while he was in New York, a blackout hit in the fall of ‘65.“Everybody freaking panicked because they thought it was like Russians or something. Up to that point, we’d never heard the word blackout,” Jones said.

In January of 1966, Jones resigned and came home to Maryland, and took a job that he had in high school. He worked three different times for Edward Plumstead Associates, which built architectural scale models for some of the top architects on the east coast.

“It was pretty cool because I would scale the drawings…I had T squares and triangles and I had to reduce the architect drawings down to the scale drawings so we could cut the plexiglass pieces to build the scale models of things,” Jones said.  During his time there, Jones said that this was when Vietnam was ramping up, so he called the Marine Corps recruiter and volunteered to join.

“I remember the recruiter says before I take you back, I gotta stop at the courthouse in Elkton, Maryland. We go in and the judge empties out the jail. The Cecil County Jail. I’m sitting there in the courtroom with the Marine Corps recruiter and the judge basically says anybody that the Marines will take, I will dismiss the criminal charges,” Jones said. “But if they reject you, I’ll reinstate’ em, the recruiters tell me this is how he filled out his quota. Because nobody in your right mind would have gone in the Marine Corps in 1966 because that was the big buildup.” Jones said that one lucky thing was that they reduced the enlistment from three years down to two.

When Jones came back to his grandparent’s house and told them that he enlisted, they were talking about what to do with his belongings, when his grandmother asked, what branch of service did Jones enlist in, he said the Marine Corps. “She starts shrieking ‘Oh my God, not the Marines. Eleanor Roosevelt said Marines are overpaid, oversexed teenage killers. How could you enlist in the Marines? Nobody in this family has ever been in the Marine Corps. Why can’t you go into other branches like your uncle’s your grandfather?’” Jones said. “She runs upstairs shrieking, and my grandfather is sitting there real calm. And he says, ‘Well, son, why did you go into Marines?’ And I said, Well, sir, I think it’s pretty bad over there. And I want to go with the toughest and I said, if something happens to me, I want to come home and they’re not gonna leave anybody behind. Real calm, he said, ‘Don’t worry about your grandmother’. He said, ‘I’ll take care of it’, bang that was it.”

In June of 1966, Jones officially went to Parris Island. He wanted to go into the infantry but was put in supply.  When asked what his experience was like, Jones simply asked if I had seen Stanley Kubrick’s  “Full Metal Jacket.”  “The boot camp stuff, that is so realistic. The precision in the marching, that getting in your face,   Jones said.

He said the reason those instructors were scary as well was because they’d been to Vietnam. “When that shooting starts, you can not freaking panic. It’s your life and everybody else’s. They wanted you as their expression was to have your head and ass wired together…It’s not a democracy. You don’t get to fricking vote on whether you want to do this or not. You do exactly as you’re told, your training kicks in, you react, you don’t think, you just react,” Jones said.

He said the experience was “tough,” but that he had a sort of advantage because of his time at Kings Point. “I knew how to spit shine. I could put a hospital corner [on a bunk]. I knew that manual of arms because I’d been on the silent drill team. So you know I stayed as squared away as possible. And because I had played soccer in high school, I ran a lot. I could run all day,” Jones said.

Jones said that Marines were lost in boot camp as well. “There was a kid in the 45 range that brought the pistol back in. I don’t think it was intentional. He just froze and instead of pulling it back at an angle like you’re supposed to, it came back under his chin, and for whatever reason he squeezed off a round,” Jones said.

“I remember in other training, you had this physical readiness test and we had to crawl under barbed wire and they had live machine gun fire going over the top and then you got up and ran and you had to jump this ditch and you did it in sequence you know it was a guy in front of you,” Jones said.

“And the kid in front of me hit the ditch wrong and I think he broke both legs because he hit the side of it and I heard the cracking. And I’m already launched in mid-air and I came over to the side of him and I kind of looked at him laying there shrieking and I was thinking should I pick him up? And the next thing I know I got kicked in the helmet by a drill instructor, “Get your ass and move,” it (joining the service) was something that I never ever regretted. I’m still proud that I did it. I was glad I did it,” Jones said.

“I was stationed at Cherry Point, North Carolina when I came home. On Friday I was driving home before the weekend with three Marines from the base. We didn’t have the radio on and were listening to Motown tapes. When we got to Arlington, we saw Washington D.C. lit up and didn’t know what had happened. I took two of them to their homes in the Northeast part of D.C.

Martin Luther King had been killed that day, and the city was on fire. We drove over fire hoses and stopped for looters running across the streets. I dropped the other guy off in Baltimore, which was having riots,” Jones said.

The night before Jones got discharged in June of 1968, he said the guys asked him what he was planning to do. “I said, I was John Kennedy’s stand-in for mock elections in school and I’m going to be a bodyguard for Bobby Kennedy. The next morning a sergeant woke me up with tears in his eye saying, ‘They shot your man, they shot your man,’” Jones said.

Jones said he was against the war when he came home, not because he was anti-military or down on the United States, he said it was because “we didn’t try to win the war.” Jones also said that approximately one-third of the guys in his boot camp platoon are on the Vietnam Wall In Washington D.C.

“I mean, I thought the South Vietnamese were really decent people. And they should have had the right to choose how they wanted to live. So I thought we did the right thing going in. I just think it got handled badly. Badly by the government and badly by the military because you could not fight a conventional war in those circumstances,” Jones said.

Jones also said that most information soldiers received was filtered. “We didn’t know about the Anti-War protests from the Stars and Stripes newspaper, the news was filtered. And of course, everything was censored in your mail coming in and your mail going out. So we didn’t know a lot of this stuff was going on. I didn’t until later. Later in my tour when I was getting close. There were some replacement guys talking about anti-war stuff and people taking drugs and you know, protests and the music was filtered,” Jones said.

When Jones came home he said he felt kind of “numb,” and on his second day home, he was at a party, where he was assaulted. “I’m standing in a corner in civilian clothes. I don’t know if I guess the way I looked and stuff.  The tan line across the top of my head, but some young girl came up to me…and started screaming and hit me with her fist. “You killed women and children. You killed women and

children!” Now I was like what the heck? I just shoved her away and kind of ran out of there, ”Jones said.

Jones ended up attending Lincoln University, one of the oldest historically black colleges in the country. “I remember my first freshman orientation book we had to read was the autobiography of Malcolm X and I still have that book and I think, The Baptism by Leroy Jones, another famous black poet writer,” Jones said.

“The first couple of months it was a little rough because if you opened your mouth you better be ready to defend yourself. But my attitude was, look, my family was too poor to own any slaves, so unless you’re going to pull a gun and shoot me, get out of my face,” Jones said. “So I pretty much got left alone. I just walked around on campus and two years later when I left Lincoln, I could walk into any black fraternity house on campus… I was accepted and I was most proud of it.”

During his time at Lincoln, Jones said that he and some friends rented a farmhouse, he said there was a Jewish kid named Carl Grossman who ran track, he said they also had a “big hippie,” with long flowing red hair, and looked liked a Viking, and a hippie flower child pacifist. While he lived at the farmhouse Jones said a friend drove by and asked him to go to a concert with him. Jones relented and went, but upon arriving noting that there was bumper-to-bumper traffic.

They got as far as the New York State Thruway, but the traffic was still bad, so they got out and walked. However, it started raining and so they decided to head back to the car. “We take this big tent… We just unzip and treat it like a giant sleeping bag. I woke up the next morning in this thing and I wasn’t sure if I was alive or dead. While I’m sloshing around I open it up, and We’re…upstate New York outside of Woodstock…so I ended up going to Woodstock without knowing it,” Jones said.

Jones said that this was an experience that he would never forget. “I just remember walking in and along the road, it was like you didn’t have to know directions because you just got in the line of people,” Jones said. “And then on the sides of the road, every manner of bizarre stuff, people cavorting stark naked was ordinary, doing drugs or doing who knows what, dressed like who knows what, It was just hard to describe, it was being in the Land of Oz, I guess,” Jones said.

Jones transferred from Lincoln to the University of Evansville after two years. He was originally only coming for a summer, but his aunt and uncle kept saying that if he wanted to go to law school, then he needed to be at a school that would stay open. This was because Lincoln faced demonstrations and moratoriums, and it kept getting shut down. So Jones ended up transferring to the University of Evansville.

“When I go to Evansville I think it’s an overgrown High School, It’s just so not in touch with all of this stuff that’s happening on the East Coast. And the reaction. They had protesters here and there were hippies here but they were running at half speed rather than what you saw on the east coast,” Jones said.

However, Jones said that he did think it was good for him because although he couldn’t relate to a lot of the kids, there were several guys that started a fraternity that was basically ex-military, it was called XGI, Chi Gamma Iota. “That was really a huge thing for me because I had people I could relate to, I could identify with, I could actually talk about things with, you couldn’t go up to another college student and talk about stuff that I had been through,” Jones said.

Jones first started to study law at Lincoln, he said that a student would take four courses in the fall, a January project, and then four more courses in the spring. During his January course, Jones signed up for a class called the law of civil rights. He said the school brought in a professor from the University of Michigan, he said the professor would have his students study all the Supreme Court cases that dealt with civil rights. “The law of civil rights did it, that’s when I said, I want to be a lawyer. You can’t change this country, by picking up a gun. You’ve got to do it in the system, Jones said.

When Jones came to Evansville, he thought about going back east and going to law school; however, he started working for Judge Miller in circuit court as an intern. Miller pushed for Jones to go to law school in Indiana. Once Jones was accepted, he got heavily involved with politics. He was the first campaign manager for Kurt John, he was also asked by Larry Conrad to be on his political staff. “So I had a job in law school with the Secretary of State’s office but then it got to be too much politics, and I took a job as a bail commissioner and I was assistant director of the bail project in law school. I basically interviewed prisoners in the city lockup in Indianapolis from six at night till six in the morning,” Jones said.

Jones became a county council attorney in 1979 and became a county attorney in 1981 and held it until 1986. He was the City Of Evansville Corporation Counsel, the head of the City Of Evansville city law department from 2004 to 2011.  He has been the Vanderburgh County Attorney since 2019.

Jones started his own firm with Paul Wallace and his brother Keith, but after a few years, Keith wanted to go teach law school in China. Paul also wanted to go back to a big law firm, but Jones didn’t so he went out on his own and took on a series of associates.

Once Keith returned from China, he started an international adoption agency and he and Jones joined again, calling it Jones Wallace II. However, after a couple of years, Bowers Harrison made Jones an offer to mentor young trial lawyers. So that’s what he did, he went back to Bowers Harrison, where he met Jonathan Weinzapfel. Jones ended up becoming his attorney when he was elected Mayor of Evansville.

Jones again left Bowers Harrison in 2009 and started what is now called Jones Wallace number three, which is still in existence today. “I had offers from some big firms in Indianapolis to come up there but you know, my goal was not to make the most amount of money as a lawyer. It’s been about loving what I do,” Jones said. “ And, you know, there aren’t too many lawyers still practicing that are my age, but as long as I’m competent and having fun. I don’t want to stop. I love what I do, I love doing the government work, I love the public service,” Jones said.

After a lifetime of accomplishments and challenges faced, Jones wants to make sure he gives credit to his wife, Lauren, and his Maker