Mapping Possible IU Med School Locations
by: Brad Linzy
As the debate raged over the expense of the recently approved hotel project downtown, one predominant reason emerged among six City Council Members for rejecting the $37.5 million public bond issue – the need for the City of Evansville to maintain its financial leverage to attract an IU Medical School.
In statements issued by several Council Members, including Dr. Dan Adams who sits on the steering committee for the med school, it was clear that most Council Members endorsed the idea of a downtown location for the proposed medical school. “I know for the best bang for our buck, we must put all of our ‘eggs’ in the downtown medical school basket first,†said Councilman Dr. Adams in a statement.
Some city politicians seem predetermined in attracting IU with a proposal for a downtown location. Mayor Lloyd Winnecke has stated he supports a downtown IU Medical School and has explicitly stated he will only support a downtown development.
In an interview with an Indianapolis radio station Winnecke said, “We are in the early stages of putting together what we think will be a dynamite plan for downtown, and we know that we will be competing with developers who will want it in another county. We know we will compete against developers who will want it in other parts of the city, but we’re gonna fight like the dickens to get it right downtown.â€
In addition to a possible downtown site, the exact location of which remains unclear, a handful of other locations have also been discussed – USI campus, Old North High School, Evansville State Hospital Grounds, Burkhardt area land owned by Promenade, the Gateway Women’s Hospital Grounds in Warrick County, and the old Roberts Stadium Site.
To better understand each proposed location, click the map below. You will find the locations of all area hospital facilities (in red), all area educational facilities (in black), and the proposed locations of the IU Med School (blue stars).
CLICK FOR MAP: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?hl=en&mid=zl7L8cNHY9EI.k2mpnNQ2oObA
USI Campus
USI was named as a possible location in a recent Courier article. Although it has merit with its proximity to another educational facility, it lacks proximity to teaching beds at established medical facilities.
Old North High School
Located at Diamond and Stringtown, the Old North High School facility is a favorite of local activist Jordan Baer. The site suffers from a lack of proximity to teaching beds and existing Universities, and has other shortcomings that required even an area high school to relocate.It is unclear why IU would want North High School’s second hand buildings in a location that offers few if any advantages.
Deaconess Gateway Campus
There are a couple of undeveloped sites near the Deaconess Gateway Women’s Hospital. A site adjacent to the Women’s Hospital is considered the foremost rival site not located in Evansville city limits. It is unclear exactly where such a development could occur, but there is a patch of farmland near Deaconess Urgent Care which might work.
Promenade on Burkhardt
While the Burkhardt area has boomed from a retail perspective attracting big box stores and chain restaurants it is unclear why this location might be attractive to IU. It suffers from high traffic and lack of pedestrian access. Furthermore, this site offers no practical advantages over the rumored Warrick County location just down the road.
Downtown Evansville
It’s unclear where a med school might actually go downtown, but this is the preferred location of most politicians, including many Council Members and the Mayor. There is one city block currently empty behind the old Greyhound bus depot, but any downtown location will suffer from a lack of proximity to teaching beds and existing educational facilities. It is also unclear why a downtown location would be preferable to IU over more centralized locations like the State Hospital or Roberts Stadium, or why it would be superior to a Warrick County location near the Gateway Hospital.
Evansville State Hospital Grounds
Due to its proximity to St. Marys, the Lloyd Expressway, the University of Evansville, shopping centers and recreational areas, the State Hospital Grounds are considered a good contender, although it’s unclear yet how such a deal would work out or if a development would disturb the park grounds or the soccer or ballfields. It is also unclear whether a med school complex would face Lincoln, Vann, or the Lloyd Expressway.
Roberts Stadium Site
This might be the best option to pitch the IU board. Its proximity to St. Mary’s, two recreational areas (Wesselman Woods and the State Hospital Grounds), the Lloyd Expressway, and the University of Evansville would make it a good location which would also be central to east and west side medical facilities. In addition, the City already owns the property and it’s already cleared for development. It would have the added benefit of saving taxpayers the estimated $1.5 million to complete a dog and skate park at this location.
I don’t see my original post on here yet (probably the glitch) but would like to add that the Roberts site is not in any way shape or form more centralized than Downtown. These “central park” in a “centralized location” ideas reek of basic geography.
If you try to put more than one URL in a post, it will require approval before getting posted. Try to stick to one URL per post and you shouldn’t have a problem.
Yea I noticed it was doing that about a couple of weeks ago. Usually my posts are very lengthy which seems to trigger the approval process as well. This post was about 3-4 paragraphs iirc so I’m not sure what the deal is this time.
The crux of the pro-Roberts argument really isn’t its central location with respect to geography, which it IS more central to the Evansville total population than downtown, and it’s centrally located with respect to ALL of the area’s major hospitals, being a 3-mile, 5-7 minute Expressway drive to ANY of them.
The real compelling arguments, however, are
A: that the land is already city-owned so it won’t cost a dime to purchase,
B: the land is already razed for development which means it would retroactively justify the money spent on the Roberts tear down,
C: it would ensure $1.5 million didn’t get flushed on a dog park,
D: and it could reinvigorate an ailing part of town and turn Boeke into a retail area.
All of this not to mention the proximity to St. Mary’s campus, which would be within walking and biking distance with a properly built overpass.
A. So is the Old North campus, and it’s not landlocked. Although, it may require future expansion but that’s good not bad.
The Old North campus already has a parking garage, a recreational building and open area, and classrooms. Yes some of it would need to be renovated but that’s far cheaper than building from the ground up.
B. Old North is already constructed and is in need of a main tenant. As is, it’s costing the EVSC every year for basically nothing. AIS only takes up < 25% of the building.
C. The $1.5 mil is just to put back the freaking road they ripped up from Division street which would have to be put back anyways in this plan. Any council member who says it would save funds from the dog park project is advocating for protection against themselves. Only they approve those funds. If it's earmarked it's their own waste.
D. There are a few restaurants that have struggled since the demolition of Roberts but that part of town is anything but struggling. And there is no way this med school will have any impact on either side of the LLoyd. UE is already working on acquiring those areas. Thus, the need to save the land for future UE sports. Those neighborhoods are mostly in the $100k or above for a house. They don't need any help.
The Old North area which surrounds Jacobsville & the Old Hercules Motor Plant communities DOES need government investment. These areas have been forsaken for too long. These are $30-40 or < per house neighborhoods. Look at the corner of Garvin & Stringtown. There's where the old buildings need to be repurposed into a "broad ripple community".
Lastly, Deaconness is just down the road from Old North which is also closer to USI and Downtown. And it can be accessed by St Marys and Gateway the same way the Roberts site can be- one road & the Lloyd.
I can see why that location could be a plus for the City of Evansville, but it has serious minuses for IU.
If it was a desirable facility, the Huskies wouldn’t have moved out. Plus, there is really zero proximity to teaching beds and it’s remote to the large retail and recreation areas of town. I think it would be a mistake to pitch that location as anything other than a second or third tier backup plan in the event IU is looking for existing structures.
Given what Warrick is rumored to be offering, the Old North High School would only turn them away.
“If it was a desirable facility, the Huskies wouldn’t have moved out.”
North moved out because they needed a bigger facility. They now have a high school and grade school at the new one.
“Plus, there is really zero proximity to teaching beds”
Huh? Deconness is just down Stringtown & Columbia- the areas that should be targeted for redevelopment in the area. And contrary to what many believe, Old North isn’t really north (just like central isn’t really central), it is stuck in btw nomans land of the north side and downtown. It’s not too far of a stretch to suggest that the area between old north and the lloyd would be within proximity of downtown as well.
None of the proposed sites are going to be next door to “teaching beds”.
“and it’s remote to the large retail and recreation areas of town”
Nothing describes the Roberts site better than that. The whole Diamond Ave retail area of banks, restaurants, and shops are all along ON, not to mention US 41 and Downtown are not too far.
“Given what Warrick is rumored to be offering, the Old North High School would only turn them away.”
$40 million and Old North beats $40 million and an open lot. Already a parking garage, a skywalk, classrooms, and room for expansion next to Baby Roberts. The christian school only turned down purchasing it because their constituents are on the east side and warrick. It was believed at the time that that decision will now cost them $10 million MORE.
Although I contend funds for renovating the rest of the campus should be come from EVSC funds which would be saved via the transfer of this building. As I said before, if not this than what?
Thanks for clarifying why you like that location and for being in the discussion. Your idea is interesting and has some interesting attractions from the city’s perspective, but I’m still skeptical IU will want to locate there.
It’s a good debate Brad and I appreciate your thoughts. Unfortunately though you know we both are wasting our time. The city is once again going into this narrow minded and completely blinded to anything but taking care of the powers that be who want this by their properties downtown.
It’s either downtown or I-164. Basically, pick your poison.
In a conversation with John Friend, he told me he thinks a downtown development for IU could require the leveling of as much as 4 city blocks and cost in excess of $60 million.
All these “downtown or bust” supporters need to give at least somewhat of a narrowed list of where they’d like to put it. Just saying “downtown” is painting with too broad of a brush (which kind of proves why it shouldn’t be there in the first place).
I can’t think of any 4 lot complex downtown that utilizes an existing asset, is next to old buildings that can be repurposed, repurposes a stuggling neighborhood(s), and/or doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb. I could be wrong though so I’d like to see a list.
Look at the map…
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?hl=en&mid=zl7L8cNHY9EI.k2mpnNQ2oObA
There are really only two vacant lots in downtown – the one by the old Greyhound bus station, and the parking lot near the Vanderburgh County Health Dept off Mulberry St.
There are no 4-block tracts that will not involve significant teardowns and redevelopment. My guess is, the people pulling for this are ones who own property down there and are banking on values rising 100% or more overnight due to the presence of the University. Some may even have buildings or land to pitch as a location.
If John Friend is right and 4 blocks may be required, the costs of this project downtown could skyrocket past Evansville’s ability to leverage really fast. We would have more to offer by trying to save some dough and pitching the Roberts lot, then transforming the Boeke area into what Stephanie Brinkerhoff-Riley called a potential Broadripple-type retail area.
There are more people who live in this city than those with property downtown. The politicians would do well to start acting like it, if you ask me.
That’s just what we need, an IUMS right in the middle of the greyhound station and a casino.
The only area that they could try would be to do the Old Central H.S lot and take the Mets Bus Station lot which would be moved but it’s nothing grand. That would put it right next to Main Gate & the FC so that wouldn’t surprise me.
Councilman Friend and Councilwoman Riley represent the areas around Old North (and Kleymeyer as far as the ball fields project goes). These areas need to be represented fiercely by these two if these areas are ever going to amount to much.
It’s interesting, actually FOUR of the talked about sites are in Ward 3, Stephanie Brinkerhoff-Riley’s Ward.
1: Roberts Stadium
2: State Hospital
3: Promenade Development on Burkhardt
4: Old North High School
Promenade is in the county (which is where it should stay) http://www.evansvillegis.com/CommPDF/2006Precincts/8x14Ward3.pdf
All of this is supposed to be realigned before next election so I have no idea what the new map looks like.
The Roberts site would be perfect for the Dunn convention center.
You could add a small < 5,000 events center that would have concourses big enough for trade shows attached to it.
You could also demolish Hartke Pool and reconstruct a new pool next to an indoor water park that would come with a…. boom boom…HOTEL!
That lot is for recreation and most importantly for when the city and UE have money which one has and the other could have but their donors don't want to spend a dime.
No, it’s in Ward 3. You’re looking at a 2006 map there.
Here’s the updated Ward Map: http://evansville.in.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=11175
I believe that the vast majority of the Promenade is considered as zoned “city” property. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Holy Cow they annexed way over on the other side of I-164. What a mess. Thanks for the update Brad. Do you know where the new maps can be found of the Wards? I’m hearing Al Lindsey gets Garvin Park (and hopefully Kleymeyer too).
Why not consider the old industrial buildings just north and west of the Lloyd and 41? Demolish it all, plenty of inexpensive land and revitalize the whole area. In smart cities, they turn the worst areas to the newest construction areas. No where else downtown works, unless you take the old River House, Hadi Shrine and McCurdy and level all that block. Warrick County and it’s cornfields will be a very hard competitor with new hospitals next door.
Correct, that lot area is called the Old Hercules Motor Plant area. It enjoys excellent railroad access, excellent road access, and excellent connections to Jacobsville (Deaconness), UE, Old and New 41, and downtown.
During the mayoral debates, Winnecke subtly mentioned the idea of a tech park but said it would be along I-164. Like the med school, that would be a mistake. It belongs at the old Hercules plant corridor.
Look at the tech park Indy is building. It’s in the worst part of town (16th street), isn’t too far from IUPUI (yet not in downtown proper), and oonnects downtown with IMS…
http://www.16techindy.com/
http://www.developindy.com/redevelopment/16-tech.aspx
Also look at what Indy is doing with their old GM Stamping plant grounds. This is smart growth…
http://www.developindy.com/redevelopment/gm-stamping-plant-reuse.aspx
I see Old North, and hopefully the IU Med school, as a compliment to that area with revitalization of neighborhoods, classroom space for research on campus, as well as a gateway point.
you have to stop using Indy as a comparison, they have to redevelop those areas because they cant expand any farther.
I don’t know where you’re getting that idea at. The whole loop area is nothing but low rises and sprawl. And they’ve been trying to build the Indiana Commerce Connector loop around it for some time. The bottom line is, is that 16 tech is an urban revitalization project that is to a T what should be happening here.
And why should Evansville be looking to expand farther? Don’t we have enough sewer, sidewalk, fire houses, and government services woes already?
And how much farther to do you expect to expand? The entire city is at the Warrick Co line.
Ok now I have two posts stuck in approval.
There’s a nice area north of Court St. and west of MLK. This area is within 3 blocks of Deaconess. There’s a lot of vacant property in that area. It’s also near the Y.
Are you talking about the Old Central lot that I was talking about above? Really that lot, the lot north of it, and possible the current METS bus station lot south of it is the only area downtown that makes sense.
It also happens to be right across from an apt complex on the NRHP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rose_Terrace_in_Evansville.jpg)
It also would be very popular with politicos as it’s within walking range of Main Gate.
If I had to pick a site downtown, I would pick that one, but it’s still #2 in my mind.
I moved my blue star for downtown to this area, which is likely where it will go if it goes downtown, the Court and 7th Street area.
METS will probably stay, I’m guessing, as it would be considered a plus for students to have METS closeby. Deaconess is by my count about 6 or 7 blocks to the north along Mary St.
Ironically, this is where I thought the EVSC should have constructed their new high school when they built New North. It’s a small world after all.
If Old North is thrown out, or (ideally) an idea that would use most of the existing building (Baby Roberts most importantly)an transform the Stringtown district, I wouldn’t have too big of a problem with that site.
If this site is chosen, one of the coolest things the city HAS to do (ok please do) would be to construct a modern replica of the old Central bell tower (http://historicevansville.com/image.php?id=educational%2FOld+Central.jpg)
Constructing a replica of that tower would give IUMS an iconic image to market their brand as. It would also be relatively inexpensive and take up very minimal land.
This lot would also tie in well with the YMCA and the Rose Terrace Apts as I noted before.
That is the area I’m talking about. I agree with you, that is the only reasonable area for a downtown location. Considering the location of the Ford Center and how out of place it looks I would put nothing pass our local politicians.
Wow had a comment and suggestion on this and the whole thing just was blown off by a dang pop in add……..crap!
Need to watch the border side bar thing guys its intrusive.
Brad: Look man I do innovation its my thing right now,looking at the locations on your map none make any real sense in basic metro presentation planning.
Your town needs to improve its commerce base with true infrastructure throughput.
Your town like 800 others must meet federal CSO mandates with out delay. Heavy cost/per household regardless of urban/county sections.
Your town needs to build smart planning climate action based energy transportation,and basic needs infrastructure at every location with a star hovering over it.
What effect will a one location campus have on the CSO it drives?
You want to develop a IU med center and blend its commerce to the present infrastructure,doesn’t happen without the CSO improvements.
What can you blend building forward smart to address climate change planning?
The Roberts location already is at level excess concerning CSO venting (old spring location low ground) Costing is extensive to add sanitary overload to the system touch point Lloyd/vann The park planned can control stormwater influx effectively if build for that.
The ideation of building the IU medical center as a triad of locations blends well with projected climate change improvements,and smart building technology.
East campus at Gateway/Vanderburgh,Downtown campus blend of three strategic blocks,and a North central location near Diamond and 1st,Kleymeyer section.
Ivy tech.and university parkway accessible. Student populations per Degree,campus focus. Clinical out to locations.
Downtown look to connect student housing at the McCurdy and the old Bus station location,and Cherry street where the crumby eyesore EVSC bus storage facility is.
Use Cherry to Riverside as gateway corridor for infrastructure improvement for smart CSO management to ESWD facility right down riverside(shortest route for costing”) Improve throughput with Walnut to Vann from Riverside for pedestrian or cycle traffic, UE access USI out west Along southern Lloyd or Ohio and the Greenway. This blends student housing and small campus locations to improve throughput to everyday needs commerce in “core whole downtown.”
The Eastern campus still provides clinical contact to all points as well and the infrastructure going in can be build smart and new to accept forward evolution in growth. The improved walnut feed helps access the new hotel and convention center,even plan a foot/ bike bridge over path at walnut and Hwy 41 lose the stop signs on walnut to the east, adjust the stoplight timing with smart usage sensed timing.
When looking forward any smart campus will be cloud connected to any other IU medical facility statewide.those are the waves hitting the beach right now so to speak.might has well roll up the pants now, take off the shoes the feet will be wet soon.
Building the campus into the community smart should improve the community as you build,metro plan driven.
Grandpa:..”son fill the water tank for the stock,here’s a 5 gallon bucket the tank holds about ten gallons”,two trips right?,wrong! Not So Much. spilled a quarter bucket getting to the tank,three trips bucket not quite so full,hey easy! and less time, wow dry feet …..
Anyone that believes Practicality, will win out over Politics in the final site for the IU thingy,- is naïve.
Hey, the Mayor can dream big. Why can’t we?
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