Mapping Possible IU Med School Locations

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Posted By CCO without editing, bias or opinion

by: Brad Linzy

As the debate raged over the expense of the recently approved hotel project downtown, one predominant reason emerged among six City Council Members for rejecting the $37.5 million public bond issue – the need for the City of Evansville to maintain its financial leverage to attract an IU Medical School.
In statements issued by several Council Members, including Dr. Dan Adams who sits on the steering committee for the med school, it was clear that most Council Members endorsed the idea of a downtown location for the proposed medical school. “I know for the best bang for our buck, we must put all of our ‘eggs’ in the downtown medical school basket first,” said Councilman Dr. Adams in a statement.

Some city politicians seem predetermined in attracting IU with a proposal for a downtown location.  Mayor Lloyd Winnecke has stated he supports a downtown IU Medical School and has explicitly stated he will only support a downtown development.

In an interview with an Indianapolis radio station Winnecke said, “We are in the early stages of putting together what we think will be a dynamite plan for downtown, and we know that we will be competing with developers who will want it in another county. We know we will compete against developers who will want it in other parts of the city, but we’re gonna fight like the dickens to get it right downtown.”

In addition to a possible downtown site, the exact location of which remains unclear, a handful of other locations have also been discussed – USI campus, Old North High School, Evansville State Hospital Grounds, Burkhardt area land owned by Promenade, the Gateway Women’s Hospital Grounds in Warrick County, and the old Roberts Stadium Site.

To better understand each proposed location, click the map below. You will find the locations of all area hospital facilities (in red), all area educational facilities (in black), and the proposed locations of the IU Med School (blue stars).

CLICK FOR MAP: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?hl=en&mid=zl7L8cNHY9EI.k2mpnNQ2oObA

USI Campus
USI was named as a possible location in a recent Courier article. Although it has merit with its proximity to another educational facility, it lacks proximity to teaching beds at established medical facilities.

Old North High School
Located at Diamond and Stringtown, the Old North High School facility is a favorite of local activist Jordan Baer. The site suffers from a lack of proximity to teaching beds and existing Universities, and has other shortcomings that required even an area high school to relocate.It is unclear why IU would want North High School’s second hand buildings in a location that offers few if any advantages.

Deaconess Gateway Campus
There are a couple of undeveloped sites near the Deaconess Gateway Women’s Hospital. A site adjacent to the Women’s Hospital is considered the foremost rival site not located in Evansville city limits. It is unclear exactly where such a development could occur, but there is a patch of farmland near Deaconess Urgent Care which might work.

Promenade on Burkhardt
While the Burkhardt area has boomed from a retail perspective attracting big box stores and chain restaurants it is unclear why this location might be attractive to IU. It suffers from high traffic and lack of pedestrian access. Furthermore, this site offers no practical advantages over the rumored Warrick County location just down the road.

Downtown Evansville
It’s unclear where a med school might actually go downtown, but this is the preferred location of most politicians, including many Council Members and the Mayor. There is one city block currently empty behind the old Greyhound bus depot, but any downtown location will suffer from a lack of proximity to teaching beds and existing educational facilities. It is also unclear why a downtown location would be preferable to IU over more centralized locations like the State Hospital or Roberts Stadium, or why it would be superior to a Warrick County location near the Gateway Hospital.

Evansville State Hospital Grounds
Due to its proximity to St. Marys, the Lloyd Expressway, the University of Evansville, shopping centers and recreational areas, the State Hospital Grounds are considered a good contender, although it’s unclear yet how such a deal would work out or if a development would disturb the park grounds or the soccer or ballfields. It is also unclear whether a med school complex would face Lincoln, Vann, or the Lloyd Expressway.

Roberts Stadium Site
This might be the best option to pitch the IU board. Its proximity to St. Mary’s, two recreational areas (Wesselman Woods and the State Hospital Grounds), the Lloyd Expressway, and the University of Evansville would make it a good location which would also be central to east and west side medical facilities. In addition, the City already owns the property and it’s already cleared for development. It would have the added benefit of saving taxpayers the estimated $1.5 million to complete a dog and skate park at this location.

 

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30 COMMENTS

  1. I thought it was said before that the Roberts Stadium Site wasn’t big enough. If that’s incorrect, I think it would be the no-brainer location. of course the city is ran by people who have no brains, so there you go. They’ll stick to the downtown location at all costs and it will end up in Warrick County.

    • Alone, Robert’s is pretty “land-locked”. If you add the ESH property, it should be fine, and I think that is all maintained by the State now. Then, when you add proximity to UE, it looks good to me!

  2. I think the ESH and Robert’s sites should combine as one proposal. By having an overpass at the Lloyd, we could combine the two. UE has its undergrad part of the program up and running, and we would have Swonder, Hartke, and Carson Center close, for student and faculty use. Via the Lloyd, the downtown Deaconess Campus isn’t far, and St. Mary’s and Gateway are literally minutes away.
    It is also convenient to retail and mid-range housing, but it is only a few minutes to the downtown “high-end” apartments, too. It just seems to me to give the best access to the “main pieces” of what we have to offer.

    • I agree about combining Roberts and ESH land in a deal. Honestly, that beats the hell out of both downtown and Warrick County sprawl if I’m IU.

      Check out the map again. I added shaded areas and more information. The ESH is a potentially HUGE tract with lots of advantages over both downtown and Warrick County.

      https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?hl=en&mid=zl7L8cNHY9EI.k2mpnNQ2oObA

      This site seemingly has it all…

      1: Immediate proximity to THREE healthcare related facilities (St. Mary’s, ESH, and American Red Cross), not to mention the Evansville Psychiatric Children’s Center just to the north
      2: proximity to UE just down Lincoln Ave.
      3: proximity to plenty of recreation
      4: proximity to restaurants and retail on Green River Rd.
      5: outlet directly onto the Lloyd Expressway via Stockwell
      6: outlet onto Lincoln Ave to the south
      7: centrally located between both Deaconess hospitals
      8: possible connection via pedestrian overpass to Roberts Stadium area and Wesselman Woods
      9: beautiful, peaceful surroundings with lakes, trees, and open spaces
      10: plenty of nearby housing for students
      11: plenty of poor people in the 3rd Ward Boeke area willing to participate in school learning programs

      • 1. St Mary’s is a plus. The Red Cross is basically like the Centre for disaster space & the ESH isn’t really a hospital, it’s a pyschiatric ward.

        2. That’s a problem. It would discourage UE from expanding their medical area and it would overlap with development around UE thus killing any potential benefits of indirect development.

        IUMS is leaving the clutches of USI. Why would they want to go back into another universities area?

        3. Agreed

        4. That’s a stretch. I’m glad to see Washington Square Mall coming back to life but outside of that why would you even want to encourage development away from the core anyways? That’s exactly what got the city in trouble in the first place. Not to mention, we’re into UE territory again.

        5. Agreed for what it’s worth.

        6. Agreed although for what it’s worth again.

        7. That’s very much pointless.

        8. Unfortunately that’s going to happen but pointless again.

        9. Agreed

        10. Sort of. Can’t really see too many wanting to live in the richie rich areas around Lincoln. Any areas they go to will be competing with UE already.

        11. Not really. Boeke, in terms of permanent residents, is anything but poor. Maybe if you go south down into covert and pollack but that’s a stretch again.

        The ESH lot is a much better selection than the Roberts lot but still nothing better than Old North or Old Central.

        • I think you’re reaching on any “overlap with UE”. That’s not even an argument. They don’t have a medical program at all, and even if they wanted to start one, it’s not going to matter if IU is down Lincoln, east side, or downtown. The effect will be the same. If you’re worried about this stepping on UE’s toes you shouldn’t be advocating it at all.

          The proximity retail isn’t a stretch. With access down Lincoln, the Lloyd, and Stockwell you are at either mall or any restaurant on Green River Rd in less than five minutes.

          I think you have a poor attitude with the areas of this city that aren’t downtown or in your northside area. Whatever beef you have with “east side sprawl”, you’re not going to dial it back, and the City of Evansville has already annexed to 164. You gotta deal with that.

          You think being centrally located between the two Deaconess Hospitals is meaningless as a pitch point to IU? I think you’re blinded by what you want to happen rather than what might be in the practical interests of IU. You’re talking about a location in Old North High that is far removed from most of the amenities I mentioned above, and the downtown location we’ve talked about will require the purchase of several city blocks worth of buildings, demolition, then a hand out of more money to develop. You could be talking about tens of millions just for that. It makes little sense when you only have one hospital down there that is still going to be 6 or 7 blocks away and now the others will be further away than if you located centrally to all.

          We’re headed for a repeat of Roberts teardown here, Jordan. We’re probably going to lose this project to Warrick unless we pitch the ESH and Roberts area. And why? Because you fell in love with another building at North High and want to see and old clock tower return downtown for nostalgia you weren’t even there for the first time around?

          Dude, IU isn’t going to give a TOSS about any of that. They’re not in the business of recreating memories or preserving history. They are in the education business. If you’re going to defect to downtown, at least do it for rational reasons.

          • “I think you’re reaching on any “overlap with UE”.”

            It has nothing to do with the med school itself and everything to do with the district around it. Most, if not all, of that area is already being stimulated by UE and will continue to be if/when they ever construct their master plan fully out. Stacking two colleges of any kind next to each other makes no sense.

            “I think you have a poor attitude with the areas of this city that aren’t downtown or in your northside area.”

            First of all, north is not in the northside area. It may not be in downtown proper but it’s not on the northside either which encompasses both the Ivy Tech area & the airport. I’m not a fan of developing either one of those areas.

            This is where the hypocrisy of the libertarian ideology gets this site. It is believed that everything must be sold by the gov’t whether it has value or not and our parks must be contracted. Yet it is ok to sprawl all the way out to I-164, a move that is the direct result of the out of control sewer bill, the fire dept being stretched, the city being dilapidated, and the dwindling of city population among many other things.

            The obsession with the east side here is no worse than my desire to develop smartly and in a way that is moving into the 21st century.

          • “You think being centrally located between the two Deaconess Hospitals is meaningless as a pitch point to IU? I think you’re blinded by what you want to happen rather than what might be in the practical interests of IU.”

            What are you even talking about. Just about every location on that map can claim to be the middle point to one of these hospital’s campuses. It makes no difference when transportation by the automobile is necessary. Whether they are at the state hospital grounds or downtown they will still have to drive to Gateway, or even St. Marys/Deaconness main location. It is moot. Completely moot.

            “You’re talking about a location in Old North High that is far removed from most of the amenities”

            What do you call all of Diamond Ave, First Ave, and even Main St if you want to stretch it that far?

            “will require the purchase of several city blocks worth of buildings, demolition, then a hand out of more money to develop.”

            Most of the three to four lots in question for downtown are demolished. Old North is already paid off. You would still have to clear and level any land at the ESH even if it is undeveloped wild life.

            “We’re headed for a repeat of Roberts teardown here, Jordan. ”

            How is building away from Old North which has literally the miniature version of Roberts and Old Central somehow going to repeat the Roberts teardown?

            In fact, we’re only in this position bc of this med school. The CCO was bound and compelled this med school just had to go on that site in the first place despite it being completely incompatible with the building (180 degrees diff than old north).

          • “Because you fell in love with another building at North High and want to see and old clock tower return downtown for nostalgia you weren’t even there for the first time around?”

            This right here shows your complete lack of knowledge for how architecture sells. A clock tower would be a symbol that would reconnect residents with the complex. It would also be used in marketing like the Univ of Kentucky does with their alumni hall logo (http://www.ms.uky.edu/~droyster/UK%20logo%20286.png)

            As for old north, this is just the latest attempt at moving the goal posts. You people took the position that buildings like that had to be sold. Great here’s the opportunity to include in a package deal. Now that’s not feasible. You wanted the Roberts site sold. Great. Sell it to Dunn hosp for their convention center. Now it has to be a med school.

            Once more, libertarianism is being used as a convenient excuse for pushing an agenda.

            “Dude, IU isn’t going to give a TOSS about any of that. They’re not in the business of recreating memories or preserving history. They are in the education business. If you’re going to defect to downtown, at least do it for rational reasons.”

            I didn’t say they were. I’m talking about how they can market their campus. Just like USI does with their cone. Building 4 block buildings isn’t going to do much for the institution and you know that.

          • Your arguments are so all over the place here, man. You’re pulling out your go-to “libertarian” cards that don’t even apply. You’ve got your mind made up I’m pushing some east side sprawl agenda when I honestly couldn’t care less where this thing goes in the city so long as it goes somewhere that’s not in Warrick County, which if we pursue either of your ideas is exactly what’s going to happen.

            I warned you when you were f-ing up with your approach on Roberts they were using you and it was going to be torn down if you didn’t listen; well, you didn’t listen. It’s gone. Following this Mayor in a downtown crusade with blinders on could end the same way.

            This junk about a tower to recreate Old Central and your sudden fascination with that idea is such a pipedream fantasy you might as well be eating one side of a mushroom to make yourself grow taller. Dude, no one cares about paying for recreating a tower that was torn down 40 years ago. I don’t think the city is going to have much of a say as to what exactly gets built. Our job is just to show up with some land in one hand and a bucket of cash in the other. Besides, your insistence a tower is a marketing coup is mistaking someone that has history and age with something that was built for the sole purpose of marketing and looking old. You’re coming up with excuses to sell that site to yourself so you can pursue your predetermined agenda. For all your accusations toward me, that’s the real irony here. That’s just what I see.

            Again, I don’t have an agenda with respect to where in this City it gets built. Really couldn’t care less, as long as it’s somewhere within city limits that makes sense and won’t cost more money than it has to cost. My “libertarianism” has little or nothing to do with it. In fact, I’m talking about a complete compromise of libertarianism even discussing kicking in taxpayer funds to help a private business, even if it is educational. So you’re WAY off base with that criticism.

            Yeah, I’ve said surplus properties should be sold or otherwise gotten off the books, absolutely; however, to borrow a phrase from Eminem, we might only get this “one shot” at this. If we put forward a foot that is anything but our best, or is chock full of “perks” IU cares nothing about, we’re going to blow it. And again, why? Because of pettiness and pet marriages to one part of the city or another or out of a split motivation to save historic structures rather than ask IU what THEY might want. In this regard, you’re no better than the Mayor right now. Old North High is not a bad backup plan, and it certainly might find another use in some future giveaway scheme with another entity, but it is by no means the superior plot out of all the ones thus far mentioned. I would be SHOCKED of IU picked that site out of the basket presented here.

            I am glad we’re having these discussions, don’t get me wrong. Keep it coming.

          • “I warned you when you were f-ing up with your approach on Roberts they were using you and it was going to be torn down if you didn’t listen; well, you didn’t listen.”

            Yea how did that plan of selling it go? That didn’t even happen even when you had the CCO peddling it (an enormous advantage over those of us who supported renovation). And even with that, not one single entity has come forward to offer to buy it, even as an open lot and even with Dunn Hospitality supposedly interested in building a CC that could use the lot for all of the reasons you suggested above.

            That whole saga would have been over by now if the funds already spent on it coupled with 3-4 mil of the innkeepers tax were applied to it instead of the overpriced ball fields complex. But that didn’t fit in with the med school fantasy idea and it might have provoked morality issues so here we are.

            As for this bell idea, look just forget I said that whole thing. I’m not going to argue over and over something that is a mere architecture and cosmetic suggestion that would be merely attached to a building that would be built one way or the other. It wouldn’t even be considered until an architect was hired AFTER the pick was made. All you’re doing is just trying to use it as fuel to suggest I’m just picking that site for that. I get that you put money over brick and mortar but that’s stretching it way too far.

            So we should build for what IU wants? Well good, go ahead and ask them because I have yet to hear that they prefer an open lot in the middle of an east side suburban strip over an urban location.

            I too would be surprised if they picked Old North. I don’t have any confidence in the city to pull something off like that to repurpose an existing asset anymore. The days of Rex Mundi turning into Ivy Tech are over as long as the current leaders are in charge.

            However, there is ZERO political support for the esh site. It’s either downtown or Warrick Co and if you are going to build on the east side I for one would rather have Warrick Co foot the bill. Paying for something on the east side is a complete waste of money that will just encourage more headaches or blend in with the rest of the development depending on where you build.

            I really don’t agree with your notion that you are not biased towards one side or the other. There’s no disputing that east side development does not have to go through the same scrutiny with you or the cco that downtown development does. But, regardless if you are or not, when you say I don’t care where it goes, you miss the whole point of urban planning.

            Building projects after projects in the same parts of town that are spread out, in good shape, and too far away from a city’s core will never fix a city’s woes. When you invest in projects of this magnitude you have to be committed to addressing multiple problems at the same time (like Indy AND Dayton are doing with their tech parks). Failure to do that is just repeating the same failures of the past 50 years.

    • It looks like maybe Joe and Ron both posted it and whoever posted it first forgot to put the “political” tag on it, so it ended up at the bottom of the page.

      You’re right, the comments on the other one are pretty great. Some good discussions in both. I was particularly glad to hear your full reasoning behind Old North High and the realization of where exactly they are likely to pitch a downtown development at 7th and Court area. I think we are probably right on with that. Might be time to buy up property there and flip it in a couple months. 😉

      • I went down there and walked the boundaries from MLK to Sycamore to 6th to Court. If Old North isn’t selected there is still an enormous opportunity there if they do it right.

        And by right I mean iconic architecture on the Old Central lot that replicates the old tower. This would instantly define the campus and make it stand out. Also, all living quarters could be on the other side of MLK starting at Rose Terrace and moving back all the way to 8th and John Street.

        It would still be able to help revitalize the southern tip of Jacobsville and most importantly I could literally see Deaconness Hospital as I stood on the lots.

        If Mr. Parke and the city were ever to convince me that they would give a good faith effort to repurpose and revitalize Old North, the Hercules Motor plant district, and the Stringtown district with a project like the tech park, I would give serious consideration to moving my support to Court & 7th.

        I thought about writing a paper listing all of the advantages of the area both geographically and politically as well as discuss how the history of Old Central could be ingrained in the new med school (i.e the tower) but I figured it really doesn’t matter. I don’t see Winnecke, Parke, or anyone else involved with the city really giving a damn what I or anyone else think. They’ve already got their minds made up.

  5. I added some shaded areas to the map to help visualize some of the possible plots on the MAP:

    https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?hl=en&mid=zl7L8cNHY9EI.k2mpnNQ2oObA

    Check out the State Hospital Grounds again. There are large tracts of land there that do not have much in the way of soccer or baseball fields. Those would not have to be disturbed, nor would the beautiful lakes. The largest tract includes the site of the former ESH main building, which was torn down. There is exit onto the Lloyd Expressway via Stockwell and south onto Lincoln toward St. Mary’s. Just to the North sits the Red Cross Blood Bank, not to mention the mental health institution on the grounds.

    Why would IU NOT want to locate here? What does downtown have that can even come CLOSE to competing with this site? Throw in a pedestrian bridge over the Lloyd and throw in the Roberts Stadium site on the deal and this could be fantastic for IU.

    It seemingly has everything – proximity to THREE healthcare related facilities, proximity to UE just down Lincoln Ave., proximity to recreation, and proximity to restaurants and retail on Green River Rd.

    I picnic with my daughter in this park quite often and it is a very peaceful, attractive environment – a world away from the noise and sprawl of the I164 area.

  6. “Why would IU NOT want to locate here?”

    Not sure about IU but building in the middle of a park would have next to no economic impact on its surrounding. Any benefit of building there would just be competing with UE.

    “What does downtown have that can even come CLOSE to competing with this site?”

    An urban life. Yes its struggling but its getting better. There’s an arena, a hotel (soon), the Y, and historic apartment complexes around the Old Central lot. It’s also just as close to Deaconness as the ESH is to St. Mary’s.

    “Throw in a pedestrian bridge over the Lloyd and throw in the Roberts Stadium site on the deal and this could be fantastic for IU.”

    WiTH would you throw in the Roberts lot? That lot is the only lot that can satisfy future recreation and entertainment use. In fact, it should be given over to UE already (although I hesitate to do that this early in the game). That lot would have nothing to do with a complex at the ESH.

    “It seemingly has everything”

    It’s close to sprawl, close to odds and ends recreation, and of course too close to UE. It would go completely against the nationwide (and worldwide for that matter) trend of increased urban living. Way to far from the core. The east side gets everything.

    It’s time for them to accept they should not win this one.

    • Again, you’re bringing up “competing with UE”, which is meaningless. UE has no medical program. If you’re talking about affordable student housing, there is plenty of that between Boeke and Weinbach both north and south of the Lloyd.

      Urban life? How is it better downtown just because the buildings are taller? I’d rather be on a campus facing a lake with wildlife, trees, green grass, and soccer fields than a heat trap full of parking lots and fancy lofts no student can afford.

      Go count the number of stores on Main. Better yet, show me one grocery store downtown. You can’t even buy groceries down there. You think this is going to change that?

      As for Robert’s Stadium plot. Heck yes, I’d throw it in. Why not? You’re prepared to give it away to UE. What’s the difference? Po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe.

      Your beef with “east side sprawl” is clouding your judgment. You are losing the plot completely. The ESH site is not in sprawl. It’s in a beautiful, quiet locale within walking distance to St. Mary’s and the American Red Cross (where the students could volunteer or perhaps even earn credits doing work), it is seconds away from shops and restaurants, book stores, ALL of whom pay taxes in this town, and it’s within walking distance to TONS of recreational areas and parks, including ESH park, Wesselman woods, and Vann Park.

      You should call a ceasefire in your war on the east side, dude. I agree with you on trying to save some buildings, but you’re not thinking from someone else’s perspective, you’re thinking from your own.

      • You’re still missing my point. You are building in a UE district that is already heavily stimulated by the UE student base. The economic impact of stacking another university just 10-15 blocks to the east of it will be nothing but a waste. Especially when its completely surrounded by park life and neighborhoods that are anything but neglected.

        “Urban life? How is it better downtown just because the buildings are taller?”

        If you can’t see the diff in the suburban vs urban life in the two areas, I can’t help you. One is completely auto dependent. The other is walkable and should still have good rail access but for the city sprawling in the first place.

        “Your beef with “east side sprawl” is clouding your judgment.”

        No, building a brand new university completely away from your core is what’s clouding my judgment on this whole idea. And if anything you and the cco are the ones who have a complete war going on with downtown. And yes, I would say it would be different if Dunn hospitality was downtown and the city politicos were on the east side.

        The arena, the hotel, and this med school downtown are all much,much, much more heavily scrutinized here than the ball fields, the interstate, and yes the idea of the med school on the east side.

        • Dunn has nothing to do with this. If I was a Dunn stooge I’d just say nothing and let the Mayor and everyone else blow it by pushing downtown only and watching it end up at the Warrick County line, which would be ideal for them. If anything, I’m harming them or offering a compromise.

          As for your insinuation the CCO is on Dunn’s payroll, I don’t think they’ve even bought a single ad here that I remember seeing, which im sure Ron would welcome. No one is against downtown, I think people are just sick of seeing good money thrown after bad artificially propping up an area in which few outside the government, banking, and legal professions are interested doing business. It’s not about what I want, it’s about what other human beings are showing organically they want. Franklin St is a great example how private business people can cause real, organic growth without massive government injections of cash to keep it going. Government intrusion in downtown has been the poison that’s killed it. In fact, virtually everything government has tried to do down there the last 50 or 60 years has destroyed the practicality and charm of the place. You’re a history buff, you know all this. This city’s downtown has been the victim of one ill-conceived renewal project after another. My personal experience seeing the rabid coalition of “hotel=jobs” folks in action has given me a clue where the historical blame lies.

      • Hey you two; keep your eyes on the target,two things with the same outcome.

        Divide et impera….Sir Thomas Bacon (1615)

        Divide et regna ….Jonathan Swift (1732).

        MacHiavelli and that thought,
        divide and conquer
        or divide and rule…ancient political maxims.

        Non expedit….primum non nocure…cura te ipsum.
        Not so fast….first do no harm….take care of yourself.

  7. Brad,

    I’ll break it down this way (1 best, 3 worst)…

    1. Cost of land
    – 1.ESH 2.Old North 3. Old Central

    * I still say renovating Old North is cheaper than building from scratch but I’ll give you this one just to play it safe. Old Central will be the most expensive of the three from a land stand point.

    2. Access to Hospitals & Med facilities
    – 1a. ESH 1b. OC 3. ON

    * ESH is near St. Mary’s and has Gateway in the area. However, OC isn’t too far from Deaconess and has the Welborn Clinic in the area. ON has Deaconess somewhat in the area but not as close as the other two.

    3. Financial Benefits for developing land
    – 1. ON 2. OC 3. ESH

    * Getting ON off the EVSC rolls would be a major plus. There are few reasons to develop OC specifically. With ESH, there would be a mirade of issues with the state and green space organizations depending on what land was taken.

    • 4. Neighborhood Economic Benefits
      – 1a. OC 1b. ON 3. ESH

      Developing OC would be a huge shot in the arm for the downtown TIF district specifically the areas around it. On the other side of MLK/7th street lies several historic apartment complexes that would easily be spoken for with this project. It would re-energize that part of downtown, it would be an enormous shot in the arm for the YMCA, and it would help the new hotel out tremendously too as it’s just a few blocks down MLK.

      Developing ON would ideally be a part of a city overall commitment to overhaul S. Stringtown. This would allow for several large warehouse style facilities to be repurposed specifically along N. Garvin & Stringtown. On the flip side, there is no neighborhood around ESH that would change as most is already student housing for UE.

      5. Political Support
      – 1. OC 2. ESH 3. ON

      Obviously OC downtown would have the most. ESH will probably get the CCO supporters and ON will just be me,myself, and I until the building falls into disrepair and the city is claiming they have to build another dog park on the lot. Then chants of sell it with 15 different proposals will crop up.

      6. Accessibility to all of city (centralization)

      1. OC 2. ON 3. ESH

      All enjoy great road access but in terms of centralization, OC is as central as central gets. ON isn’t too far from the center core as it would be considered downtown if the LLoyd had not been built in the 80s.

      Since OC & ON are not tilted to the east side, they are basically equi distant from USI, UE, and Ivy Tech (OC specifically). This would also allow either one to form their own identity in their own region whereas ESH would get mixed in with the east side which is already heavy UE country.

      Overall, I came up with ESH 2.1, OC 1.5, and ON 2. Since all three fall within .6, I would say it’s too close to call as you could adjust several of these depending on what the cost estimates of each came back as and depending on what goals and priorities IU has (which no one but IU knows).

      Push come to shove Brad, I’m betting on NONE of the three being used!

  8. Forgive me as I am writing this as an idea is occurring as I type.
    The ESH grounds seem ideal to me for all of the above excellent recommendations .
    The idea that is coming is that IU may be attracted also because IU has historically been connected to Psychiatry.
    B.F. Skinner, Kinsey, etc.
    The grounds were a huge draw back in the day when the mentally ill were addressed and cared for. Plays and concerts were regularly presented even.
    With all of the recent violence committed by disturbed persons ,the “homeless” that used to be cared for, I think the link with these historic grounds could put a bug in their heads.
    Huge, beautiful, space.
    Logical,near,access.
    An historic connection to one of IU’s premier successes.
    A way for IU to be a contributor to a program that links their expertise with a huge national problem.If they care to slant their program to the Psych side of medicine.
    Just like St. Jude-kids, Ketering -cancer, etc.

    As I warned-just an idea newly occurring.

  9. Brad,

    I’ve been scrolling around town and I think there’s one other spot the city is probably looking into. I’m not really a fan of it but I imagine one of the site’s the city is looking into is the EVSC bus yards that run parallel to the southern side of library.

    If that lot was transferred from the EVSC and the Old Mission lot was sold to them they would have a location that is caddy corner from the new hotel lot as well as next to the library.

    The only positives I see about it would be that it would give the old swanson building next door a chance at revitalization (if the wrecking ball isn’t already heading its way) and it would seem to have room for expansion.

    Other than that I’m not really a fan of it but I could easily see the city using that lot in this deal.

  10. Not bad rails, With the observation of the eyesore bus lot,and that’s “an mostly mobile feature.” Your city should start them smart and drive those too satellite staging areas out in the school zones/districts they serve. ( All most free Infrastructure throughput improvements downtown commerce district.)
    That would save fuel and time and access for those whom drive the things as well. Less miles on the counties bus fleet per year too.
    The less miles you drive them the safety of the product does come into play there to for the whole community.
    I believe those locations could be some of the older K-mart and wally world rain run off features you all support with your costing for the CSO problem fix anyway.
    There does also seem an location to the south of the Technical learning center on Lynch road that would suffix for a central location for the bus throughput and storage repairs and such.
    Why your city plugs up its traffic downtown with empty bus traffic twice a day is beyond reason with any good throughput commerce access plan.
    The use of the areas foot print as its shown by orbital science now could move forward with an plan to bring some radiance an production back into what is noted as your cities core.
    Cherry street does fit for a overall restructure of the CSO issues with a less costly plan as well.
    If in design that was first build along Cherry to riverside then to the CSO recovery and sewer plant area you could then use an improved Cherry street surface for throughput infrastructure in a plan to move that forward.
    The Walnut street corridor opened too the east with a overpass for cycle and foot traffic too access the UE campus corridor and beyond to Vann and the SHG would step that plan up a forward level in a overall good plan as well.

    Moving forward and reducing cost,while gaining some community altitude,gets you there effectively faster.
    Looks like to myself the key strategy to throughput timing and access in your downtown has been effected by dissection of the Main street corridor with your government buildings.
    That looks self inflicted from altitude. Right now building a throughput gateway around the blockage is your best bet on the recovery at those locations.
    Nothing you build there will have good access until someone really puts a fix on that.
    Use the CSO issue to plan forward then build to adapt open box forward. Or continue to watch the commerce base sprawl outward for ease of access.
    As it stands now traffic and parking access is in a knot once one leaves the Lloyd just about anywhere in Evansville,which the Lloyd as an throughput is terrible in itself.
    Evansville needs to realize urban areas of the future will be using cloud based technology to solve and sustain control of grounded problems. That’s whats trending fellas.
    I have seen before something about an county emergency control center,for disaster preparation why not blend that into a daily situation control center using I.T to manage your peak throughput with real time observations?
    Its being done already,however in your county the jail location should be a combined resource site.
    Looking at that though,gee how did anyone think of access and costing transportation when you put that there!!! Its like Evansville has been built as if an model of “what not to do” in concern to throughput and access.
    You should keep up your discussions on this with the CCO maybe someone else might see the good ideas posted on this site and begin to study real problems and find good working solutions for them.

    Scienctia non habet inimicum nisp ingnoantem , scientia potentia

    Science has no enemies but the ingnorant’s , knowledge is power.

    Veni vidi duci

    I came I saw I calculated

    veni vidi… visa….. 🙂

    I came I saw I shopped. 🙂

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