IS IT TRUE September 18, 2013
IS IT TRUE it appears as though the Evansville Courier and Press has decided to remove the posts of one Phyllip Davis, the admin for the Facebook site “Citizens of Evansville for Progress on a Downtown Hotel†after it was pointed out that he alleged that City Councilman John Friend and Dunn Hospitality Chairman John Dunn were essentially criminals?…while this was the right decision on the part of the CP it sure took a long time for them to remove these posts?…there is no record of the posts of Mr. Davis anywhere on that website?
IS IT TRUE that many of the problems that all seem to be coming to roost under Mayor Winnecke whether it is the 5 year saga of seeking a downtown convention hotel or what the daylights is going on with the McCurdy Hotel could have been avoided with a well thought out master plan for the revitalization of Downtown Evansville?…there are many very nice things in downtown Evansville that are not even remotely connected to each other?…in every downtown that has been successfully resurrected in the United States there was a plan with a long enough time frame to transcend Mayors?…the successful projects were done a block at a time in totality as opposed to a nice thing here another one 6 blocks away over there, and who knows what in between?…it is the failure to plan that has resulted in failure in downtown Evansville?…it is the failure to get the buy in of the people of Evansville that has lead to such skepticism within the population?…the Evansville City Council should mandate that an approved city plan should be developed and approved before another dollar is spent haphazardly in a random manner?…only in insane asylum are works of beauty juxtaposed with squalor?…downtown Evansville by any measure of reality resembles exactly that?
IS IT TRUE while we have been concentrating on the hotel agreement with HCW that mercifully will finally come to a vote next Monday without 3rd party vetting there are many things that have been going on that deserve (there’s that word again) the people’s attention?…the biggest of these is in the county and it involves the refusal of the Vanderburgh County government to release the report on why the stretch of road on North Green River Road is in such poor condition only a few years after the taxpayers through a TIF paid $26 Million for improvements and widening?…the people’s money paid for a study to expose the reason for the problems and the people deserve to know what the devil caused our road to fail so soon?…the refusal to release these reports ranks right up there with the SNEGAL tactics of the City of Evansville to cover their tracks in instances like the HOMESTEAD TAX CREDIT?…the same players are still in elected office so what can we expect?…once non-transparent always non-transparent?
IS IT TRUE that while Evansville is squabbling about yet a fourth hotel deal that was done in a vacuum with no public disclosure Owensboro, Kentucky is cutting the ribbon on a privately financed downtown convention hotel?…while it is true that Owensboro may be on the hook for a occupancy guarantee if the hotel does not perform the fact that they got not one but two developers to build convention hotels without an up-front check really makes the City of Evansville look like an easy mark?…maybe our leaders need to go to Owensboro for a lesson in how to get a hotel and stop aspiring to be the next Fort Wayne with lower occupancy and room rates than Evansville?…ask yourself where you would rather live, Fort Wayne or Owensboro?…for most of us that is an easy answer?…the one thing that Evansville has in common with Fort Wayne but not Owensboro is that 3 cars got shot last weekend?…that gives even more support to playing “monkey see money do†on Owensboro and not Fort Wayne?
There’s a brief mention of the North Green River Road project but nothing mentioning the $15.4 mil ball fields fiasco? Something’s not right here.
Anyways, there IS a master plan for Evansville, just no one goes by it and it’s why we’re in the mess we are. My firm belief is goal is for it to be returned and updated, therefore I oppose a brand new one from scratch.
Last election, I took this master plan to all the town hall meetings and events. There was even footage of me holding it up in the air at one of Rick Davis’ events back when Eyewitness News was News25.
Amazingly enough, Lloyd Winnecke made it one of his campaign promises…
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/oct/22/winnecke-30pt-hed1-10-inches-of-story-goes-herep/
“Too often master plans for development are created and forgotten. The latest Downtown development strategy was crafted more than a decade ago. We will retool and revitalize the plan specific to our current environment and challenges, and do so in an open, transparent and effective way”
Here we are halfway through his one term and there’s been no mention of the 01 master plan despite the fact that one of the nice and pretty images from it hang on the wall over the receptionists desk at the DMD.
There’s no reason to abandon it. The ideas in that plan can never be beat, and to be quite honest about it I’m sick and tired of it sitting on my desk collecting dust.
Rails,
Could you tell me if The Centre (opened in 2003) was envisioned in the 2001 Master Plan ?
Thanks,
Donald
Yes, it is on the master plan. The Centre opened in the late 90s (99 I want to say).
The Master Plan called for one of two things to happen.
1. The arena would be built along Division Street slightly north of the Lloyd in the open lot in Jacobsville just a few blocks west of McDonald’s. Under that scenario, the civic center would be demolished and four buildings would replace it. Two on the north side of Main Street would be gov’t and two would be south of Main right in front of the Centre- One would be expansion, one would be a new hotel.
Under that scenario, Main Street is reconnected and a gov’t services park connects the Centre and new civic center to the Lloyd. The Curtis Building would be torn down.
2. The arena would be built in the back 40 almost right smack dab in the middle of where you enter from Locust. Under this scenario, a hotel is built between the arena and the Curtis Building which would have retail on the other side facing the Lloyd. On the side between the arena and the Centre is room for expansion for both with the parking lot in the back.
Under this scenario, the civic center stays intact with no gov’t services park but the Curtis Building is preserved.
Me personally? I support a mixed version. Keep the Curtis Building (obviously) but make a park connecting the gov’t buildings with the Lloyd.
I would like to give you a quote from section 1.0 of the master plan that I can’t help but feel rings true today…
“How communities (large and small) elect to measure their growth and success is of major concern to our cities today, especially to medium sized cities, such as Evansville. Suburban sprawl has captured the attention of community and regional planning authorities nationwide. Towns and cities are beginning to realize the price they must pay when delivering expanded infrastructure, roads & highways, municipal services, and school expansions to support new housing and subdivisions and commercial centers being built further from the traditional town center; downtown.”
Rails, thanks for the post. RE: 1999 for The Centre, would you agree that circa 1999 would be the Vanderburgh Co. Convention Center (torn down to build the Centre).
Maybe some long-timers could hop on here re: the distinction between Vanderburgh Co. Convention Center vs. The Centre ?
Joe, I had a post about Bowling Green on here. Can you dig through the software to see if you can get it on here. Thanks.
As for cities to emulate, why are so many people jealous of Owensboro? I mean its not like they didn’t just knock down an iconic 500 + room hotel only to build two that don’t even compare to it when combined. Are they living within their means? Absolutely. Are they doing better than Evansville by building things a little bit better than dog parks? Of course. Are they some big progressive city that everyone should be eweing and ahing over? No. The Big E is gone and the events center that is replacing it has already been redesigned to look completely FUGLY.
What town should Evansville look towards (other than OKC of course)? That would be Bowling Green, the city that got the team that was supposed to be here in 2003. They have a lot going on. They are doing what Evansville wants to do…
http://www.southcentralky.com/downtown-redevelopment.aspx
On my past two visits for games, I’ve noticed that they’ve done a magnificent job by both building on open lots while preserving all iconic buildings at the same time. They’ve also done a good job of focusing all of their development on downtown and not out by I-65 or the soon to be I-67.
They also have a sidewalk master plan (http://www.bgky.org/publicworks/planningdesign/transportation/pdf/sidewalk_project_prioritized.pdf)
and they have an organization that focuses solely on downtown BG which is similar to what I asked Wayne Parke if he would support and couldn’t even get an answer (that makes me feel better about this hotel project)…
http://downtownbg.com/
I’d love to see the IU med.project downtown, but with all the new construction at Epworth, odds are it will follow. You can’t stop the sprawl when you have little to offer downtown. The Welborn unit that was donated for $1. would have been an incentive, but we already gave that away.
onemeover: “…little to offer downtown.” W can start by having a convention hotel downtown. The fact we do not have a hotel downtown will hurt the chances of attracting the IU Medical Center.
I take it you support a convention hotel downtown. Good.
The City has been on the wrong path for more than 20 years! Now we have to have a downtown hotel or the sky will fall said chicken little! Wayne are your arms getting tired having to wave the pom poms for following a bad plan and bad idea! The taxpayers and I am sure the voters are getting more than just a wee bit tired of big expentures that end up being drains on an already overtaxed and diminishing taxbase!
What good does any of this do if you can’t even admit that downtown needs a lobbying organization? And what good does it do if the mayor will not honor a campaign promise of reinstating and then updating the 01 master plan.
Ready, Fire, Aim is why we have entertainment mixed in government services instead of the rest of the entertainment corridor along Fulton.
Wayne you are so full of BS and Winnecke, there are 2 hotels downtown and 2 that can be updated so that makes 4.
The cause of roadway subsidence? You push that stack of chips all in that the cause is lack of sufficient compaction.
You will notice that the subsidence occurs mainly at locations where lateral pipe trenches extend out across the roadway from the gutter inlets. There also is subsidence noticeable at one particular bridge apron.
Compaction of the fill is supposed to proof out at 95%, using the Proctor Method of testing, for all earthen fill under pavement, including the backfill in the pipe trenches and bridge approaches. You can bet that the fill placed in the subsiding trenches and other defective roadway areas is less than 95%. Some of the worst areas from casual observation look to be about 85% compaction at best.
While you can bet the cause of the roadway subsidence is substandard compaction, you can figure the reason to withhold the report is a legal maneuver, and possibly in the best interest of the taxpayers. Why? Because when it comes time to recoup the cost of correction, you don’t lay all your cards face up on the poker table at the start of the game.
Editor: You complain about the Evansville Courier and Press slowness to remove the posts when in fact you still have your article still up. Are they now ahead of the CCO?
Editor: You do not need a new 5 year plan to see that Evansville does not have a downtown hotel let alone a convention hotel.
Editor: The vetting company recommended by John Friend had never done this type of consulting work. What a waste of time and poor judgement by John Friend. HCW is is ready to provide the required info to an experienced consultant that has done this type of work.
Editor: Unfortunately there is likely to be a big lawsuit over the poor workmanship on North Green River Rd. People involved are trying to get the problems fixed through negotiations. Premature release of documents will not be in the County’s best interest while negotiations are going on.I am confident they will be released at the proper time.
So do you think constructing ball fields just down the road from London Bridges in the boondocks is a much better idea than at Kleymeyer which is in the heart of Bosse Field, Don Mattingly Way, and most importantly right up Main St from the arena and this hotel that all your city leaders think is the second coming?
If your side is going to throw Mr. Warren out to tell everyone how much we need this complex it seems to me you might want to have him think a little closer to it with his own project. And then after that, we’ll be in the same position with the tech park won’t we? Say one thing, do another.
Editor: You being a business consultant I am surprise that you believe the Owensboro deal is better. It is not. Owensboro is on the hook for a occupancy guarantee if the hotel does not perform is a huge uncertain obligation. What incentive does the Owensboro hotel have to work on filling the rooms?
The Evansville deal is better. It is a known amount fixed commitment.
The Owensboro deal is potentially $37.5 Million better. It will take real performance as opposed to phantom customers to preserve and grow the valuation of the hotel. Typically these hotels turn over every 7 years or so for tax purposes. It is better to invest $20 Million and sell for $30 Million and that only happens with real heads in the beds. Their incentive as the incentive in Evansville to run a good operation is to build equity in the property to either sell or leverage into more properties.
No if no one shows up in Owensboro and the real occupancy is below 25% or so, then the Evansville model of renting half the rooms up-front may work out better. I think we both know that a new hotel in Owensboro or Evansville will have an occupancy rate of between 55% – 65% at maturity. From a probabilistic perspective I think the Owensboro deal is a better deal because it has an upside for the city if success is achieved by the operator. Evansville’s approach has no upside potential. The downside is $37.5 Million plus if it fails the City will get to pay for cleaning the mess as it did with the Executive Inn.
Wayne why don’t stop harassing the CCO Editor Joe Wallace. It’s obvious he is intelligent and you’re not.
I’ll be glad when this hotel issue is resolved one way or another so you can go on with your life raising money for the Mayors re-election campaign. You better raise a lot of money for him because he going to need it.
Eric Williams for Mayor.
danny, Yes, … Joe is very smart, Wayne is a loyalist.
Although I doubt that Winnocchio will be a two-termer, I can’t think of who will replace him at present.
I would love for Davis to run again, but after the hi-jacking of the Democrat Primary. Who knows?
I doubt that Eric Williams will choose to dive into the pool after the current piss-party is over. There just aren’t enough hot showers.
I hope, for Eric’s sake, he chooses to go into business. His family owns one of the oldest business’s in this town. …
Wayne’s questions about the aspects of any given deal are fine with me. I do not consider that harassment and will try to answer his questions when I have time. Now this attempt last night to attack Brad Linzy because we are related was tasteless on several people’s part. Anyone who knows Brad and I and kept up with the smoking ban would know that kin or not we were diametrically opposed on that issue.
I actually appreciate Wayne’s dialog on the aspects of the Owensboro deal and welcome his detailed analysis why locking in your losses up front trumps having some upside potential from operational success. If you think the place is going to fail, Evansville’s lock in your losses approach is the better approach. If you expect success Owensboro made a better deal by guaranteeing a minimum revenue to the hotel operators. There is nothing like betting against your own team to raise expectations.
“ask yourself where you would rather live, Fort Wayne or Owensboro?…for most of us that is an easy answer?”
I can’t tell what you are going for here, but you do mean Fort Wayne, right? It’s more than twice the size of Evansville and five times the size of Owensboro, and the median income for individuals and families is also a good deal higher in Ft Wayne than either Evansville or Owensboro. You are comparing apples and… cucumbers.
Thanks Mr. Wallace for you classy answer to my post.
However I do stand by by my remarks to Wayne Parke.
Ft.Wayne,Owensboro, Evansville, everyone of those has an issue in common. Its not about an hotel, its where the hotel flushes. Major fix needed in all cases. The staff at the ESWD have an huge job ahead of them,they need full support.
Lets see whom prospers after those applications. That Road issue on Evansville,s northeast side is simply the same issue overall. The roadway as I have seen it with orbital science is built over an major creek flood plain,an flood plain that has seen near record saturation in the 2011 overall flood event in the Ohio Wabash drainage basin. Probably the cause of the settling.
I think the sewers close by were probably in CSO events during that period as well.
The condition of the roadway could have been prevented by an little more study into the overall problem of drainage basin management. Current planning applied to the basin there just seems increase the storm management issues directly down stream of the planned development. What is being done to address that for creating CSO problems downstream?
Better planning,better outcome, The road way bridge structure seems to be subsiding along the bridge section connections. Is the joint failing,or is this just the drainage inlets subsiding?
At least, that is what is shown through simply looking at Google earth presentation of the creek crossing and basin area.
More action is probably required than settling of some storm drain compaction applications.
I read in the local Courier press news issue the climate change plan is heating up in Washington.
The issue is real,having an plan is an real need,your local area is seeing this barefaced now.
Build what ever with all that in mind.
Joe Wallace owns Wayne Parke. No doubt it.
Well Joe, it looks for the time being that you and Brad have done the unthinkable once more. It’s looking like you have the votes to block the hotel proposal. You’re determination, heart, and toughness never ceases to amaze me. Same with you Brad.
My hat’s off to the both of you. Congratulations!
I appreciate your spirit Rails but Wayne Parke is his own man. I don’t own Wayne any more than John Dunn owns John Friend. Contrary to what some delusional people may say we are all four our own men and have no reason to want to own anyone.
Jordan, thanks. That’s nice of you to say, and for my part it was great reconnecting with you on an issue upon which we agreed. Even if all “no” votes reneg and this passes, I’ll be proud of the way we were able to get our views out to the public. Phillip Schultz also deserves a lot of credit, and our friends in the Libertarian Party like Bart Gadau. Furthermore, we cannot discount people like Brenda Bergwitz and Sean Selby in the Republican Party for standing up to the machine.
I have no ill will toward Chairman Parke. I still think he is a nice man outside of politics, but as this hotel struggle has shown, politics can have a way of bringing out the worst in people.
I wouldn’t support Eric Williams for anything. I’ve voted for him twice already – and I won’t make that mistake ever, ever, ever again. He’s a snake and was 110% behind the party backstabbing that’s been going on.
Reorganization.
In my estimation THIS is the biggest news story that the City-County Observer has ever broken:
https://city-countyobserver.com/2013/09/18/city-of-evansville-legal-fees-for-the-last-several-years/
Faegre Baker Daniels is the law firm that Jonathan Weinzapfel went to work for when he left the mayor’s office.
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I would be even more interested to see what EVSC pays in legal fees annually!
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Another issue for your basin area,how much is going down the drain?
(EPA mandate fines).
Not sure if its the biggest yet, but its definitely intriguing. I have a feeling this story will be around for a long time.
Oh its BIG. Take my word for it, its BIG. Thus far, without the EVSC data, it is $$804,579.76 big.
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We’re I Friend and/or Dunn I would have my attorney in court. Have you ever heard of libel? I believe it would be a slam dunk.
Linzy, do you have some sort of man crush on me. I decided to check out your tabloid to see what you are saying about the latest hotel development and lo and behold, my name in print. Get your facts straight. I don’t see a post of mine that was ever deleted. I’m not a regular CP troll like your subscribers. I have a total of 72 posts. 10 of those were today. Stop writing my name on your electronic bathroom wall.
I don’t compose the Is It True? articles. I didn’t mention your name here.
Shouldn’t you be on the ERBC approved Courier Press site? This is a tabloid. You’re too good for us.
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