IS IT TRUE November 2, 2012
IS IT TRUE that the final contract to demolish Roberts Stadium was authorized yesterday by the Evansville Parks Board in favor of Klenck Construction in the amount of $958,750?…the City County Observer is always pleased to see local companies win bids for work like this so the choice of Klenck is a choice that we are glad to see?…this is the same Klenck that was stiffed by the Weinzapfel Administration and its surrogates for roughly $350,000 for the demolition of the former Executive Inn to supposedly make way for a big invisible Convention Hotel in downtown Evansville?…the price is exactly the bid price that Klenck submitted but substantially more than Winnecke Administration minions stood before the Evansville City Council and spoke of just two weeks ago?…this appeasement team stood before the City Council and claimed they had already identified ways to take the demolition price down to about $750,000?…that Klenck must not have agreed with what was told to the City Council or they would have amended their bid to reflect the $750,000 price?
IS IT TRUE that ring of a $200,000 difference in what is said and what the cost will be is turning out to be par for the course for this administration as Earthcare Energy was handed a $200,000 bite from the people of Evansville’s apple by Mayor Winnecke’s surrogates behind the City Council’s back too?…the demolition of Roberts will not result in the site being ready to proceed with anything at all as the parking lot will remain with basically another Executive Inn style ROCK PILE occupying the space where many great events have happened?…we suspect the price will go up and that political contributions will be made to grease the inappropriate skids?…that our friends is simply life in River City?
IS IT TRUE that there is allot of confusion and claims being made on both sides of the consolidation issue regarding what may happen with property taxes as a result of consolidation?…the CCO does not understand why both sides are avoiding stating the simple truth that the maximum tax that can be paid is 1% of an owner occupants assessed value, 2% of a rental properties assessed value, and 3% of the assessed value of commercial property?…that is in the Indiana Constitution and is not under the authority of local elected officials period?…if your taxes are less than 1% of the assessed value of your home then you shall see a tax increase with every rate increase or increase in valuation with or without consolidation until you are paying 1%?…this is a tax increase you can all bet the ranch on?…if your assessment and tax rate already have your taxes at 1% of your assessed value then you will not see a tax increase until your assessed value increases?…Indiana also mandates market price assessments and an appeal process is in place that works pretty well?…that means if you are smart and diligent that the assessment of your property can not exceed the market value?…just to clear the air, this is completely outside of the authority of either a City, County, or Consolidated Government?
IS IT TRUE that new outlets are reporting what looks and sounds like chaos and rampant crime in the areas that were hit by Hurricane Sandy this week?…Huffington Post is reporting widespread looting with prescription drugs from pharmacies being the main targets of the looters?…there are images of fighting and people rummaging through dumpsters for food that are reminiscent of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina?…the most disturbing reports are the reports out of New Jersey that non-union relief workers and even volunteers who are in town to help secure homes and businesses are being intimidated and threatened by union workers who are claiming that only union workers will be allowed to do any cleanup work?…when self interest trumps the real generosity of the American people that there are problems on the ground in Sandy’s aftermath?…we may be in need of a big intervention from the National Guard ala the Rodney King riots if the looting and intimidation continues?…this is a good opportunity for President Obama to show some leadership beyond photo ops with the Governor of New Jersey? Game on guys?
Mr. Editor, please explain to me how a house inside the city limits in any township pays a substantially higher property tax bill than a house with the exact same assigned market value but located outside the city limits in the same township.
Explain to me how the properties recently annexed into the city in Knight Township are paying substantially higher property tax bills this year than they did last year. Did the Indiana Constitution prevent those huge property tax increases?
Now, explain to me how the Indiana Constitution will prevent the consolidated government, under the plan of reorganization, if it is adopted by passage of the November 6 referendum, can prevent the new government from incorporating a neighborhood from the General Services District into the Urban Services District “with the accompanying change to that taxing district’s rate.” (See section 7.4 of the plan.)
To your first question the answer is clearly that the tax rates are higher in the City AND that the parcel in the County is paying less than the 1% max. Under the condition that you ask the question about if both were already maxed out at 1% they would pay the same and would only see increases when their assessed value increased. I have no idea about the ratio of those paying the 1% max to the ones paying less. For those paying below the 1% max it is the rate that matters and that is uniformly lower in the County.
Same answer as the first. They had to have been under the 1% max to have seen an increase due to annexation. The City has higher tax rates across the board. Their impact is only limited by the 1% cap on taxes. The Indiana Constitution only sets the 1% max. If your rate is increased AND you are paying below the 1% max then annexation or consolidation will result in a real money tax increase.
To you third paragraph, there is nothing to stop that and the Indiana Constitution will only serve to cap your maximum liability at 1% of assessed value.
Property taxes for “homes” are capped at 1%. Property taxes on businesses that were in Knight, then annexed (still Knight, but city now), have gone up 110% (on average, based on whom I have spoken to). It is apparent the city of Evansville has no vested interest in keeping businesses around, or at least letting them have the capital to expand and hire more employees. I would be happy to show you our business’s property tax bill for this year vs. last year. You will see how the consolidation won’t help homeowners, and will severely hamper businesses across the county.
We believe you. Businesses are capped by the Constitution at 3%. If you were well be low 3% before being annexed we fully believe that you saw a big rate based increase after annexation. Would you consider writing an article for the CCO about your particular case?
There is a large, hand painted sign on Hirsch Road on which a property owner gives the before and after annexation property tax data for his land. A picture is worth a thousand words.
I would rather provide the facts and let someone else write the story.
It must also be noted that when a fire station closes (i.e. Knight), city fire will pick up the services, and likely will have no new stations to cover the new territory. Did you know that if McCutchanville Vol. Fire needs assistance, city fire won’t help them, and vice verse? Or if there is a fire on I-164, and it is in city territory, but the nearest fire/rescue truck is 20 minutes away (and a volunteer fire/rescue truck is 5), they will send a city truck regardless of potential loss to life and property.
You also will have to pay for trash pickup at your residence, like it or not.
EFD has mutual aid agreements in place with every volunteer department in Vanderburgh County. EFD regularly provides assistance to suburban departments if they request it, and that assistance would no doubt be returned if it was ever needed.
It is a geographic impossibility for an incident on I-164 to be even 10 minutes away from the nearest city fire station, much less 20. Likewise, it is a geographic impossibility for any incident in city territory to be closer to a suburban fire station than to a city fire station.
There are plenty of reasons to not like the consolidation plan without passing bad information concerning local public safety.
I beg your pardon, but I received my information from an assistant chief with McCuthchanville Vol. Fire.
I don’t know what written agreements are out there, but they may differ from when a call goes out over the air.
Geographically impossible? As I understand it, there is a station off Morgan, behind Applebee’s. Right? They get locked down with another call (and they only have one ladder), they have to call the nearest station on Washington Ave.
Now the wreck north of Lynch Rd. on I-164 can’t be responded to by station behind Applebee’s, so the Washington Ave. station has to respond (as the words of the assistant chief). It would be around 8 miles, or 11 minutes.
It still doesn’t make up for the closing of Knight’s two stations.
JJ, due respect, you stated that:
“Did you know that if McCutchanville Vol. Fire needs assistance, city fire won’t help them, and vice verse [sic]?”
That’s simply untrue, and borderline insulting to boot. EFD REGULARLY ASSISTS SUBURBAN FIRE DEPARTMENTS. We are CURRENTLY providing automatic aid to areas in their response territory where McCutchanville has access problems due to the large construction projects associated with the airport expansion. If we get an ‘accidental’ dispatch to a county run, we head that way until Central tells us to disregard. I have personally responded to a number of runs where there were jurisdiction questions, and they were always sorted out promptly and professionally once all the players arrived on scene.
You also stated that a response in the area you noted would take 20 minutes. Then you said it would take 11. Can we agree that 11 < 20? I stand by my statement in both cases.
Do not confuse the MAXIMUM PROPERTY TAX with what most people are paying now. For most people it would be on hell of an increase in their property tax bill to start paying the MAXIMUM. What people are afraid of are consistent SIGNIFICANT increases in their tax bill.
I have seen many posts on here where people who live in the recently annexed portion of Knight township have seen SIGNIFICANT increases in their property tax bills. Perhaps they forgot to say that their assessments also went up after annexation in some cases.
The question then is just what enhanced the value of those properties other than suddenly being forced into the city limits of Evansville? For example: I am not crazy about paying higher taxes for trash pick up. My current company’s prices are very reasonable and if they do not do a good job I can fire them. We also have excellent fire protection, non city, where I live.
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A vote “Yes” will make the dire situation in the Controller’s Office much worse. They will absorb all the County’s finances. The County Auditor’s Office has a much better operation than the City Controller’s Office. Just compare the two audit reports.
Jenny is still running around the Civic Center turning everything that she touches into poop and probably making much more money than you. Russ is an idiot too. I would have cleaned house if I inherited such a mess! Instead, they blame their consultants and their auditors and ask for special favors. Vote “NO” on Tuesday!
I agree with CORE in that taxes will more than likely go up for the county voters. But at the same time they don’t understand the symbiotic relationship that they have now with the City Government and they are missing the point of it. The CORE group in this debate seems to be focused on what will happen in 2015 if it passes. Those are some very limiting blinders to wear. The real question is will be better off in 2020, 2030, 2040? And to just say, “NO” based upon the 2015 viewpoint is a selfish answer. The real savings to this will not be realized until later.
I believe the answer is “YES!” to consolidation. And YES I am tired of the politics when we do vote for change. And YES I want a powerful mayor who has the OPPORTUNITY to make changes. Otherwise our votes for Mayor are just courtsey votes. That’s right, a courtsey vote. We are fools to ever think that we are in control of this government when our best efforts fail to elect a new set of officials with a large portion of the previous administration lingering about.
Can we please have that strong Mayor with brain and a spine.
A good mayor should not need to be a strong mayor. If he/ she is a prudent leader, the rest of the elected council will follow. The need for a strong mayor is when you have a poor leader who strong arms his wishes on the tax payer. I see no advantage to appointed vs. elected positions, a “yes man” is no man at all.
To elect a NEW set of officials you will have to circumvent the selfish directions of the political party leaders and their circle of recycles. If a candidate doesn’t walk and talk like them, they will combine forces to make sure he doesn’t get elected. Corruption is rampant in city government. Euthanasia is illegal.
You won’t get a powerful mayor if Winnecke follows through with his claim he will run to be the “Super Metro Mayer”. He has already been bought and sold. Williams won’t be any better. Who do you think would fill the bill? Can you name one person who would be electable?
Oh, yes. You say the real savings will come later. When have we see this happen? Even the great merged Marion Co./Indianapolis can’t pay for Lucas Stadium. They got the legislature to give them some of OUR state tax money to help them make the payments. YOU are paying for Lucas Stadium!
Take off the rose colored glasses and get a grip on reality. Politicians are about Money and Power. So is this CONsolidation fantasy.
Vote NO!
It is interesting that you have written off both political parties as “unelectable”. You complain about the current situation and offer no real alternative. Your arguement leads me to a dead end with no way to reconcile the problem. How can anyone agree with you when you yourself have no hope for the current government? So, due to your bitterness and hopelessness of our political climate, you vote no to continue with what exists?!?
Most of the time I enjoy your political rants, but on this one you are just bitter with no solid argument. The, I hate you and the horse you rode in on is getting old.
NoMoDoh did not write off both political parties as unelectable. NoMoDoh asked you to name electable individuals for metro mayor other than the one from each party that NoMoDoh pointed to as assumed candidates for that position.
And as to taking the political discussion in a different direction, why don’t you lead us there rather than beating up on NoMoDoh’s point of view.
One of the major concerns of city/county government officials and area citizens is the declining population growth of the city. Something the city/county gov’t officials and citizens espouse under the “population argument” is that consolidation will offer an opportunity for greater “grant” opportunities, but what if the Federal grant money dries up…what happens in the future 2020, 2030…? Taxes have to increase, right! The PRO argument is focused on too much centralized power, taxes will rise as the Fed gov’t expenses keep mounting and less and less monies go to the state’s to distribute to cities. Not progressive on this one! The economy is too unstable at this point to follow this plan. P.S. A note about the recent demolishing bid for RStadium by Klenck Construction is contradictory to what was submitted in the news media a couple of days ago…what’s the TRUE amount! Will additional payments come from the general fund? What is the status on the reimbursement of $200,000 from Earth Care Energy? Cronyism needs to end in this city, I believe that is one reason why we are lagging in economic development…get rid of some of Economic Development organizations/agencies, how many do we need? A lot of things to consider, but a bad time fiscally for our city and the federal gov’t outlook.
Do we want the cronies,conmen and clowns of the city to be free to spend the county’s money too! Vote No to CONsolidation!!!!!!!!!!
Is it true that the CCO is linking to the C & P with their Vanetta Becker ad.
Yep…..I clicked on it to try to help the C&P with their traffic numbers…. 🙂
JMHO
pressanykey,
This example may clarify the assessment and taxation issue you question.
A property located in the recently annexed area of Knight Twp., and owned by a YES! supporter and charter member of the Vanderburgh County Taxpayers Assoc., is an example of what has happened since the city took over.
The Assessed Value is the SAME as before annexation. — $74,700.00
It has only State and Local Homestead Deductions, no mortgage.
The 2010 pay 2011 COUNTY taxes—- $315.20
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2011 TOTAL PROPERTY TAX BILL TOTAL- $315.20
The 2011 pay 2012 COUNTY taxes—- $140.39
The 2011 pay 2012 CITY taxes—– $264.68
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2012 TOTAL PROPERTY TAX BILL IS—- $546.50
TAX INCREASE — DOLLARS — $231.30
TAX INCREASE — PERCENT — 73.4587%
Why would these property owners support consolidation of the entire county?
Do they think their tax bill will be lowered if others have to pay more?
Do they think because it happened to them it should happen to everyone?
Have they thought about the spend, spend, spend mentality of city government?
Have they thought about the increases the mayor and his staff will determine they merit because they are “overseeing” a larger population and land mass?
Have they considered that most residents have rent, house payments, insurance bills and children to support?
That many of those residents don’t have Two Incomes and NO Kids (TINK)?
One owner has expressed satisfaction with the savings on trash pickup. I doubt they are saving enough to defray their immediate tax increase or future increases as the Combined Sewer Project goes forward.
Nothing about CONsolidation presents any advantages for the city or county residents. Everyone will lose except the politicians, big business and realtors.
Vote NO on NOvember 6th!
Some of your figures are misleading. Ilive in city Knight and my taxes went up also and not because of annexation. Check your assessment page and look at county wide increases , couple of big ones EVSC over 10% increase and another one over 6%.VOTE YES!!!Evidently you are one of the ” CAVE ” people(Citizens Against Virtually Everything).
On the tax bill for my home in the county, the EVSC taxes went up 8.88%. Look at Table 3, in the column on the far right for the percentage change. Your ASSESSMENT and tax rate are what affects the change in that percentage number. I have 3 properties and that percentage is tied to the Assessed Value of each and the increase or decrease of the taxes I am paying on that property. None are the same. That percentage is the difference between what you are paying in 2012 compared to 2011. Do the math! Just take the percent times the amount you paid in 2011 and add the result to the 2011 amount. You will get the amount of taxes your are paying in that category in 2012.
The TAX RATES in the second and third columns to the left, ARE the SAME for everyone inside that Township area. Some, School, Library and Special District, are the same throughout the COUNTY.
There is also an ADDITIONAL EVSC REFERENDUM Tax (Table 2, line 2) we are paying because 70% of the voters believed that you could build $149 million worth of schools without raising taxes. I came out of my cave and voted “NO” to that one, too.
In City-Pigeon Twp., the poorest township in the city and county, the Township tax rate only, not the city and county rates, increased from $0.0559/100 to $0.0926/100. That doesn’t sound like much, but it equals 65.7%.
The total tax rate for City-Pigeon Twp. is $2.9485 per 100. In City-Knight Twp. it is $2.8704 per hundred. Getting closer.
When looking at the percentages at the right side of your tax bill, remember they reflect only the dollar changes in YOUR tax bill, not even your neighbors’ bill.
Tax bills are complicated to read and understand. I hope I have clarified some of your concerns and issues.
I knew and told Vince Bertram he would be raising our taxes with his Strategic Agenda. He claimed it wouldn’t. It has.
Consolidation of city-county government will not only raise everybodys’ taxes, but it will not bring the wonderful improvements the YES group claims. The city cannot manage it’s own business and has not the skills, talents or fiscal responsibility needed to take on the needs of the county.
Vote NO on November 6th!
My math is not the best in the world, but that example appears to break the 1% annual increase rule for a residence. How is that legal?
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Press,
To refresh your memory about how the circuit breaker caps and property taxes are calculated, read on.
$73,700 is the Gross Assessed Value (GAV)of this home. The 1% tax cap is figured on this amount, NOT the NET Assessed Value (NAV).
$1,300 is the GAV of a storage shed. A 3% cap is figured on it as “personal property”, and totals $39.00.
$737.00 + $39.00 = $773.00 Circuit Breaker Tax Cap.
The actual Property Taxes are calculated using the NET Assessed Value (NAV), which is obtained by subtracting the Standard Homestead and Supplemental Exemptions. Additional Exemptions may be deducted at this point, too. In this case the NAV is $20,384.00.
You next divide the $20,384.00 by $100, equaling 203.84.
In Knight Twp, City, the tax rate is $2.8704 per hundred.
203.84 X $2.8704 = $585.10 (Gross Tax Liability)
There is a Local Property Tax Credit that is deducted from the Gross Tax Liability. In this case it is $38.60.
$585.10 = $546.50 (2012 Property Tax Liability)
The Circuit Breaker Cap is $773.00 + $7.00 = $780.00. The extra $7.00 is for the EVSC Strategic Agenda.
$778.00 = $231.50
That means the current tax liability is only $231.50 below the cap. The taxing bodies of the city and county can raise the taxes on this property $231.50, or 29.76% before hitting the Circuit Breaker Cap.
Your property taxes will be due on Tuesday, Nov, 13th. Get your bill out and do the math to see how close YOU are to the Circuit Breaker Caps. Then think about how little time it would take the Consolidated City of Evansville to push your taxes to the limit.
Vote NO on NOvember 6th!
It is blatantly obvious that the taxpayers can’t afford consolidation as proposed. Instead of trying to force county residents to pay the higher taxes that Evansville homeowners have to contend with, let’s get rid of Evansville’s city charter and we will all reap the savings that come from shutting down the mayor’s office and the city council!
If the city’s debt would go away with the city I would be all for it. Unfortunately we would no doubt inherit the debt.
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This shows how desperate these people are:
The Fayetteville Observer
Published: 08:48 AM, Fri Nov 02, 2012
Concerns raised over possible exploitation of mentally disabled voters
By Gregory Phillips
Staff writer
Jimmy Green’s stepdaughter had never voted before. The 57-year-old is mentally disabled, and Green said she doesn’t understand the concept of casting a ballot.
But this week, she called her parents to say she had voted for President Obama. The care home in Fayetteville where she lives registered its residents to vote and drove them to the polls, Green said.
“My concern is that somebody told her who to vote for,” he said. “She didn’t even know there’s two different parties.”….(more)
Word at the Civic Center is that Mayor Winnenke’s wife calls all the political shots. Also she demands people call her the first lady> WEhat a joke!
Maybe that comments contains TWO jokes. The first is she doesn’t know that a real “first lady” wouldn’t have to make any demands. The next is, if she acts like that, how can she be a lady of any sort or number?
Let’s hope she changes her mind and Lloyd-boy doesn’t run for mayor again. Four years of her will be too much.
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