IS IT TRUE November 12, 2012

1. “looking to grab the life raft known as Vanderburgh County”

   Congrats! Very nice writing.

2. ISN’T IT TRUE … the last master plan that was published during the Lloyd Administration does not even have a Ford Center type of facility in downtown Evansville?”

   Didn’t the downtown master plan developed during the Russ Jr. administration include a baseball stadium over there in that huge parking lot between Re Ra’s and the so-called gentlemen’s club?

   • Indeed it did. It seems as though the successor to Lloyd Jr. made it his mission to undo everything about that plan. Our frustration is that there was a plan and it was not used. That does not mean that the Lloyd plan was wonderful but we stand by the assertion that “FAILING TO PLAN IS PLANNING TO FAIL”. The randomness of actions and failures of the last 8 or 10 years bear this out.

     • They don’t want a “plan”, at least not one they have to articulate and set in stone. A plan represents a certain failure they will have to explain in the future when they inevitably stray from it.

       Plan = certain failure.

       Even if there was a plan, it would just end up being a plan to spend an assload of money on a bunch of unnecessary projects while giving tax abatements to all their preferred employers in the County. To articulate that “plan” is to admit their plan makes no sense, is not fair, and is destined to bankrupt the City of Evansville.

       • I think the problem is that we plan according to our “wish list” rather than a “viable vision.” The Ford center was planned and now we “wish” it becomes profitable and “wish” it would bring new business downtown. The Ford center is just a $130 million coin thrown into the downtown wishing well.

3. By the way, if I still lived in Kentucky, I’d vote for ANYONE, including a toothless, shoeless, Hazard County hillbilly meth-head before I’d vote for Mitch McConnell.

   If you want to talk about what’s wrong with the philosophy of the Republican Party, Mitch McConnell is a good place to start. I hope his career goes the way of the Lugar.

   • I completely agree. He openly stated he would rather the economy fail than to do anything to improve it and also improve Obama’s re-election chances. We don’t need anyone that will put the good of a politcal party over what is good for the country.

4. Every 10 years Indianapolis will draw up a master plan for downtown Evansville. We have until 2020 before the traffic flow in downtown area is recommended for change again. Job security for the traffic light people. How many thousands could have been saved if, the civic center had not closed Main Street?

   • I think the last master plan, the one to which Yes!onHSR refers below, came out from a St. Louis consultant, not a consultant from Indy. And if I remember correctly, it was crayola’d together by a committee that included some of the same Yessies who comprised the committee that scotch taped together the plan of reorganization to which the voters so resoundingly responded in the referendum last Tuesday.

     • Oh yeah, and that last master plan proposed punching Main Street right through the Civic Center security gates and across the plaza between the county courts building and the now vacant EVSC admin. bldg.

       • – The master plan was put together by Gateway Consultants. Judging by their name I would say they were from STL. I’m to lazy to go look right now but I will pull the report out in a minute and double check that

         – The current building would have been replaced by 4 square shaped buildings and then a “government services” park behind them. It is illegal to go through a government building after Timothy McVeigh.

         Like with the arena, there were two options. I liked both arena options but I only liked one of the civic center options and that was the one that preserved the Curtis building.

         With all of that being said, the orginal plan from the 60s is still the best one. It’s amazing to see an architectural rendering like that from the 60s.

         – I don’t think but I don’t want to say for sure, that the plan was compromised by the local officials which I found to be rather surprising. The report was backed thoroughly by strong demographic, regional, and market analysis of each project to back their layout.

         I don’t see a page 13 added in there but then again I could be wrong. What I liked most about it was the fact that they took ideas they got from the citizen meetings and implemented them. They didn’t just cook something up like Winnecke did.

         Lastly, I want to point something out about the master plan. After I printed it off, I agreed to meet with any public official/candidate who wanted to see the plan again to discuss it with them. There was only ONE and it was Alan Leibundguth. He didn’t just look at, he took it home for several weeks and went over it page by page.

         On the flip side, I went to Winnecke’s old office down at the 5/3rd building and opened it up on his desk. He gave his familiar elitist chuckle, didn’t even look at one page, and then said “do you know how much that will cost”

         Last I checked, the ballpark was cheaper than the green river rd widening, the marina was cheaper than the dog park, the cahal was cheaper than millersburg rd construction, and I’m pretty sure a good chunk of the government services park could have been built for the price of a new phantom hotel. But then again, all of this is a fraction of that new interstate that’s costing every city in the state.

         • The 1960’s plan that you refer to was by Fantus. It had a very forward looking downtown layout that may have set Evansville apart architecturally in the way that Columbus has been distinguished. The Fantus study however was not kind in the words it chose to describe Evansville’s stuck in their ways population. The Fantus study was not followed and look at the City of 2012 as compared to the City of the 1950’s when it comes to national relevance and prosperity. Evansville is still on a downward trajectory despite bricks and mortar projects. The comments in the Fantus study are jst as relevant as ever.

           To quote the study: “”The real villain is Mr. Everyday Evansvillian.

           “This is the man who complains to newspapers about chuck-holes in the street, but does nothing to elect an administration which will feel responsible for such repairs. This is the man who doesn’t pay any attention to who is running in elections and forgets to vote when election day comes around …

           “This is the man who attacks community leaders just to show that he is against existing authority.

           “This is the man who attacks wealth because he believes it is essentially evil.

           “This is the man who attacks people out of fear or envy, who have worked their way up to successful positions. This is man who does not participate in Evansville’s community development.

           “This is the real villain. This is the man who gets Evansville where it is and keeps it there.”

           The report also stated that much of the lack of “esprit de corps” comes from “Evansville’s citizens of long-standing.”

           http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/29/we-must-learn-to-embrace-change/?print=1

         • Millersburgh Road realignment and upgrade was necessitated by the airport runway expansion and relocation of Oak Hill Road. Also, the design and cost of Millersburgh Road was complicated by the requirement to raise the roadbed above regulatory flood elevation.

           The Green River Road widening and improvement was necessitated by safety and traffic load concerns, and the need to serve the tax base created by residential, commercial, and industrical development over the past 5 decades since Green River Road was last improved from what is now Lynch Road to Millersburgh Road. Again, the cost of Green River Road improvements was driven by requirements to raise the roadbed above regulatory flood, replace an unsafe bridge that the federal government declared in danger of collapse way back in 1986, and to construct several additional waterway openings (bridge spans) to comply with federal floodway regulations.

           Fortunately, road projects are paid from federal cost share and state gasoline taxes, in large part. And those funds are not available for Garvin Park, Kleyemeyer Park, ball parks or doggie doo doo parks, etc., or any other recreational and non-transportation elements of old master plans.

         • For the final time, Green River Road WAS paid for by county funds…

           http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/may/23/no-headline—24a0xgreenriver/

           “Now that the most expensive locally funded road project ever in Vanderburgh County is largely complete”

           And of course, it is already paying huge dividends.

           http://www.courierpress.com/news/2012/aug/14/evsc-budget-hed-here-and-02/

           As for the other road projects, I’m talking about the bridge over the RR tracks, not the airport plan (of course an airport in EVV is going to be competitive with Indy, Lou, Stl, and Nashville someday I guess).

           And no, widening a road out to never-neverland is not vision and growth(Winnecke’s terms). It is simply expanding your city’s infrastructure with your current amount of residents. When Evansville had 150,000 + people, it’s infrastructure was much smaller and thus much cheaper to build and maintain. I’m not saying that Evansville should blow money on stupid projects like demolishing a solvent arena in favor of constructing new/additional dog parks that will never be solvent much less put heads in beds. What I’m saying is, is that the city should address its urban core first that is rotting, then build SOLVENT capital improvement projects to maintain this “vision and growth”, THEN expand to the county when necessary.

           Letting existing parks like Kleymeyer rot so that we can build roads into the county for “growth”? Anyone still wondering why Evansville’s inner core is in the shape it is in (And yes that includes the roads inside Evansville as well).

           IIRC, doesn’t the county get a bigger chunk of Aztar funds than the city? That is a huge mistake!

         • That description of Evansville people by Fantus sounds like Obama voters right now.

5. Evansville DOES have a master plan and it is from 2001. And yes, it does have a Ford Center on there. In fact, it has it in two possible locations both of which are better than the current site.

   It was a Winnecke campaign promise to update this master plan not start a crayola session with lynn miller-pease.

   We also have a master plan for Garvin Park and Kleymeyer Park. It is from 2002. If the ECVB has enough money to waste on ball fields, they need to help build this plan out.

   Lastly, I am very thankful that I printed the 194 page master plan off. Shortly after that, GAGE deleted it from their website. How pathetic is that!

   • Maybe when the city annexes a big chunk of the unicorporated urban area, out to the north and west of Evansville, the following administrations will be able to realize the grand ideas proposed by that master plan for Garvin and Kleymeyer.

     However, as we have seen from experience, annexation simply pushes what some folks call “urban sprawl” even farther out from the urban core, and leaves behind more blight and brownfields to redevelop as commercial abandons existing properties and follows residential as it creeps into the lower taxed rural land.

     • I completely agree with you on annexation. But I would like to say this. The Kleymeyer to Garvin pedestrian bridge WOULD be built with existing funds if Evansville had their priorities straight. This bridge should be built before the one connecting State Hospital Park to somewhere next to Wesselman Park. There’s the funding right there.

       Bosse Field and Garvin never get much funding while the eastside parks always get their fair share. That needs to change.

       So yea, annexation will not help Evansville. It will just make Evansville’s problems Vanderburgh’s.

       • Was the pedestrian bridge you speak across the Lloyd built with state or local funds? I truly don’t know. Just asking. But when you suggest swapping uses for funds from one project to another, please heed the source of the funds, because many times I’ve seen you and others appear to think all the money comes out of one pot and nothing has a mandatory earmark.

         • The bridge over the Lloyd is only in the design phase so I myself am unsure of where the funds are going to come from and how much it will cost. The last time I checked they still had two locations they were choosing from as well that would require two different sized bridges.

           The mayor claimed the dog park was needed to connect the two parks since the bridge was on its way but when asked about it, he said he had no idea what the status of it was because it was still being worked out by the state. So yea, that bridge might be funded by the state or the city may be just having to deal with the state because it involves going over a source of transportation.

           I know I am biased here but it is my strong belief that Winnecke only brought the bridge up bc he wanted to knock Roberts down eventhough you could build a park in the back anyways.

           I fully understand that everything doesn’t come out of one pot. Although I do contend that Aztar money comes out of the general fund given that Aztar funds that are being used for Winnecke Dog Park could be used for general things too.

           If I were in charge of the city and county my plan using the constraints of each pot would have been the following…

           Innkeepers (county)- $4 mil for Roberts and $8 mil (maximum) for the ball fields

           Welborn Grant (city)- Existing Parks (are eligible!) & Cemeteries (if applicable )

           Aztar (city)- I would take the $8 mil (2 mil for 4 years) that is going to the dog park and put it in a rainy day fund each year.

           I would then set up a growth boundary where no more new roads or infrastructure was built unless necessary such as the airport situation.

           Then, I would reduce the roads budget (county) so that only damaged roads were attended to and take the rest and use as a down payment on Renew Evansville. No more “vision and growth” for Winnecke until the current sewers and infrastructure are addressed.

           While all of that was happening, I would be reinstating the 2001 master plan and then updating it so that necessary changes were made and additions such as the slack water port in the Howell Rail Yards were added.

           The important thing here is to get as many projects done debt free which means cutting useless projects and putting others off for a few years. Look up Oklahoma City’s MAPS programs. They built over 10 projects such as a ballpark, a canal, and a NBA arena DEBT FREE!…

           http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2011/04/01/as-promised-cnn-visits-oklahoma-city/

         • Often you make very good points, and I agree with many of our ideas. But …

           Establishing an arbitrary growth boundary around the urban area is a horrible idea, especially for Vanderburgh County.

           We already have an established urbanized area with boundaries set by the U.S. Census Bureau. It extends out to the west past USI, to the north past Boonville New Harmony Road, and to the east all the way to the Warrick County line.

           Residential growth is driven on the open market by the home buyer. Commercial development naturally follows residential development. Development initially follows basic infrastructure and lays down improved infrastructure as a part of the cost of new development that is passed on to the real estate buyers.

           A vast expanse of Vanderburgh County has become urbanized whether you like it or not. The remaining undeveloped property interspersed within the existing urbanized area out in the unincorporated section of the county has an open market value exceeding that of similar property in Warrick, Posey, or Gibson counties based on infrastructure and existing development adjacent or passing thru the undeveloped large parcels.

           Drawing an arbitrary growth boundary for the City of Evansville would immediately and grossly depress the open market value of land outside the growth boundary. That would adversely affect the investment of the land owners outside the growth boundary, destroy their heirs’ inheritances, depress the local real estate market, wack the tax base, and consequently deprive the City of Evansville and Vanderburgh County government of the local funding to complete all the projects you promote.

Comments are closed.