IS IT TRUE the City County Observer was recently able to get a look at the entire Hunden Study that the Winnecke Administration paid good money to have an outside consulting firm advise them on the feasibility of building a convention hotel in downtown Evansville on the site of the former Executive Inn parking tower?…the 9 chapter report was found to be fair and comprehensive?…that means we think that Hunden Strategic Partners did a good job on the report and as consulting fees go however high they are this group earned their fees?…the rest of today’s IS IT TRUE will deal with what the conclusions and advice of this study were?…we will assume that someone within the Winnecke Administration and the powerbrokers who support putting taxpayer dollars into a convention hotel read it also?
IS IT TRUE Hunden states clearly that “Evansville is not competitive against the larger and more amenity filled cities surrounding Evansville like Louisville, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Nashville, and Bloomingtonâ€?…it also stated that putting new supply into place could lead downward rate chasing by both the existing hotels and any new one which would have the unintended consequence of “hurting the entire market and lead to quicker cycling down of hotel propertiesâ€?…the Hunden Study also pointed out that Evansville has “struggled†to maintain population growth rates similar to the state and nation as a whole?…the CCO must point out that when it comes to keeping up with population growth that the City of Evansville has not exactly “struggled†over the past 60 years, and that a better description would be abject failure?…even though the county has grown it has not even come close to keeping pace with the nation and state in that department?…the study also states that “The Centre has not necessarily generated increased demand for a new hotel and that most events are attended by locals who go home after the eventâ€?…that the kinds of events that attract out of town visitors has been on a decline since 2007 and that the Centre only generates a need for 3,000 room nights per year which is only about 3% of the room nights that building the proposed hotel would add to the inventory?…with a new privately funded 120 room Marriot Courtyard under construction it is a foregone conclusion that the words of the Hunden Study do not make a compelling case that market forces indicate that there is a need for a new convention hotel with or without taxpayer support?
IS IT TRUE a fairly extensive SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats) analysis was included in the study?…the strengths identified were visibility, the Centre, the Ford Center, downtown Evansville entertainment, downtown business, lack of a downtown competitor, and the community?…with all due respect that is a money losing weak set of strengths that could have just as easily found their way into the WOT part of the SWOT analysis?…the weaknesses were identified as location (as in Evansville), being dependent on room block guarantees from the Centre (which loses money), the local hotel market health, completion from other areas, and non-downtown hotel clusters such as the intersection of I-164 and the Lloyd?…the opportunities and threats were pretty much repeats of the strengths and weaknesses?…under recommendations the Hunden Study includes “the private hotel market based on performance suggests that the ONLY truly feasible hotel from a private investment perspective would be a 120 – 150 room limited service hotel similar to the Marriot Courtyard currently under development on the Eastsideâ€?…it also states that “too large of a hotel in downtown Evansville even if it receives upfront taxpayer subsidies will need additional reinvestmentâ€, supposedly to cover operational losses?
IS IT TRUE that based on the Hunden Study the 30,000 foot conclusions are that first the kind of hotel proposed by the RFP issued by the Evansville Redevelopment Commission is not needed, secondly that it will necessarily damage the existing hotel inventory that competes in the same markets, thirdly that it will require over $20 Million of taxpayer dollars to really interest a savvy developer, and that it will require additional public investment to cover operating losses for many years into the future?…we hope and encourage that every member of the Evansville City Council absorb this study as they start the decision process on providing funding for this project as the gap funding of at least $20 Million will essentially vaporize to nothing when valuation in the market is considered?…that translates into “a vote to fund this is a vote to toss $20+ Million taxpayer dollars into the incineratorâ€?…we hope our elected officials on the City Council have better sense than to torch $20 Million of the taxpayer’s dollars?
So not only is a downtown hotel not needed, if built it would/could degrade pricing and profitable for all the other existing hotels. The original offer by Aztar to add capacity to their hotel makes more sense, use the old Executive hotel site to create a working load out for acts and incorporate the now needed storage into that area. Use the old Exec parking garage lot to build……another parking garage…duh!
As a side note….the skyway to nowhere crossing MLK should just be removed or capped with a sign stating this is the legacy mayor Weinzapfel left the taxpayers…the verbiage just needs to read…
Ready….Fire, Aim!
JMHO
I agree that a subsidized hotel downtown would represent an unfair, artificial competition against all the other free market hotels in town, and for that reason I oppose the idea. When you also consider the fact that the remainder of hotels and hospitality businesses pay a burdensome innkeeper’s tax, that makes the enterprise that much more unsavory.
Great reporting. Wonder how Winnecke will or has spun this to the council people? You shot down every argument there is for the new hotel.
This is a fantastic “Is It True”, by the way. Applause to the Editor.
The conclusion dears repeating in case anyone missed it:
“…we hope and encourage that every member of the Evansville City Council absorb this study as they start the decision process on providing funding for this project as the gap funding of at least $20 Million will essentially vaporize to nothing when valuation in the market is considered?…that translates into “a vote to fund this is a vote to toss $20+ Million taxpayer dollars into the incineratorâ€?…we hope our elected officials on the City Council have better sense than to torch $20 Million of the taxpayer’s dollars?”
To Evansville’s Taxpayers: If we buy a Hotel in Miami instead of Evansville, We lose money either way, but, then Evansville’s Elitests could go South for the Winter! Yeah that’s the ticket! Maybe Tom Barnett will agree to be the Concierge.
Looks like the Mayor has another “Earthcare” situation on his hands.
Let’s see what else our Mayor wants to do with our hard earned tax dollars.
1)Build two parks (Roberts dog park and downtown park)around $15 million for both.
2) Pushed to give a $200,000 loan to the Earthcare group. Oh, they are paying back to the city interest only at the rate of $400 monthly for about the next 2 years.
3) Now the Mayor proposes to spend between $22 to $25 million towards the renovation at Mesker Zoo.
4)He wants to spend $22 TO $25 million to build new downtown hotel.
5)He also faced with spending $500 million dollars to correct our sewer problems throughout city.
6)Finally he has quietly requested that the state grant the city of Evansville permission to replace water meters througout the city at a whopping cost of $54 million dollars.
How much more debt can the taxpayers of Evansville afford? On top of everything else, don’t forget that the Mayor hasn’t balanced the books of this city since he has been in office.
Final remark-when is CCO blogger Brad Linzy going to file his complaint with the court against our out of control spending Mayor?
Any such action will have to be after the holidays if I am to be involved. I don’t mind to draft it, but I’d like a lawyer to take a look at it before we submit it, which will require some funds. I don’t want my inexperience being the reason for failure, so a lawyer would be a good investment. Anyone willing to pitch in on that when the time comes or if you’re a lawyer and would like to assist in drafting the accusation, email me your details and I’ll contact you when that time comes: bradlinzy@gmail.com
I think we have plenty of evidence from the public records to lodge a formal accusation, but again, it will have to wait until the hectic holidays are over.
Looks like the next move against the Mayor is now in Brad Linzy court! It’s time for Brad to put up or shut up!
I like Brad a lot. I personally trust that he shall follow through with his promise to file a formal complaint against the way the Mayor has cover up the city of Evansville not balancing books since he has been in office.
Please give Mr, Linzy time to write out his formal complaint against the Mayor.
When he does I personally know many people shall sign on and publically support him.
Mr. Linzy, I will support you in this endeavor, tell my peers, and put my money where my mouth is!
Thanks to everyone for their offers of help and encouragement in this matter.
If you haven’t emailed me already, please do so so I can keep you in the loop on our progress after the first of the year.
bradlinzy@gmail.com
Please include “Winnecke Accusation” in the subject so I can keep my emails straight.
Thanks!
Question: Is Indiana one of the 38 states that have law governing recall of local officials? If so, I cannot find it.
It’s not handled by the State Legislature. It’s handled by the local courts. I linked to the statute in a previous Is It True.
IC 5-8-1-35
Brad you can count me in to help.
If you ask for and pay for a professional study to be conducted by an independent firm, the study comes back basically telling you not to build because there is little market, there are no advantages, and in fact will harm existing business….if after you read and understand this study you continue on the path and in fact appropriate monies and enter into contracts to build a downtown hotel everyone involved should be impeached for dereliction of duty. After impeachment should come fines and jail time.
If they wanted a different outcome from the study they should have told Hunden upfront what they wanted the finding to be.
JMHO
I’m curious how much of a factor not having a convention hotel hurt the Centre’s ability to generate rooms. Was the 3,000 rnpy figure calculated post Executive Inn, or did the model include consideration for convention trends prior to its loss?
post Executive Inn. There are over 3,000 rooms already in Evansville. That figure amounts to less than one night per existing room.
*Congressional Reform Act of 2012
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they’re out of office.
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into
the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system (Obama-Care) as the American people.
6. Congress and the President must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.
7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/31/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.
Congressmen/women made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in
Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!
___
When Winnecke had a chance to shutdown the HRC and save taxpayers over $350,000 a year and didn’t I knew he wasn’t a conservative. I seriously doubt if Winnecke can get a second term, this places him in the unique situation to get rid of deadwood and steer this city in the right direction. I feel that Winnecke is a liberal who has weaseled himself into the republican party. He gets my no confidence vote. The Fantus report is as relevant today as it was over 50 years ago.
This report could have been gleaned from the responses asked of the patrons of 3 or 4 bars in Evansville if they were asked whether a new hotel should be built downtown.
The “Earthcare” fiasco could have also been predicted.
We just seem to fall in love with these ideas from experts from “not Evansville”.
Perhaps we could combine a hotel with our proclivity toward scammers.
We could build the ” Doodlebug Hotel” catering to water dousers, medicine shows, free energy salespersons,one weird trick website managers,snoring healers, etc.
Or just a dorm like setting for our politicians.
You are indeed correct yet our elected leadership felt a need to spend $75,000 to learn what could have been learned in the common sense world of a bar. Similarly with the prediction by the CCO that the hotel alone would not value out at any more than $22 Million even though the cost to build is more than double that. The free advice that goes unheeded is truly astonishing.
Thanks!
75 thou huh?
Man, that could’ve been a party!
I have mixed feelings about a convention hotel but there are three things I am sure about…
1. I’m glad the city is struggling to build a new hotel. That’s justice for what they did to the Big E which was fine and should have never been included in the land for the arena to begin with. Renovating that hotel, and I’m talking about when it was complete on both sides, would have been the difference in the figures being thrown out here. It’s a shame all of this had to be left to Browning.
2. I like John Dunn (not David), I really do, but I really wish he would quit building hotels on the far east side. All of that sprawl just makes me cringe. None of that was started by the free market. It was started by government building I-164 and then the town moved around it and the free market followed. Why does the city and the area business leaders insist of sprawling farther and farther?
3. I find it to be quite amusing that the non profit Willard Library can release renderings of their expansion yet our publicly run government can’t release renderings of Winnecke dog park or the three finalists for this hotel project. That speaks for itself.
Sprawl is defined by lack of sufficient infrastructure. A wealth of sufficient public infrastructure exists at and near the intersection of I-164 (soon to be I-69) and the Lloyd Expressway. Therefore building hotels, or any other heavy commercial development, at the Lloyd and I-164 does not constitute “sprawl.” It constitutes necessary and desired commercial development. So, thank you Mr. Dunn and thank you especially Deaconess Hospital.
No, urban sprawl is the following…
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-urban-sprawl.htm
“Urban sprawl is the spreading of a city or its suburbs. It often involves the construction of residential and commercial buildings in rural areas or otherwise undeveloped land at the outskirts of a city.”
And what is one consequence of this?
http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/research/measuring-the-health-effects-of-sprawl/
“In the first such national study, health researchers found that people who live in counties marked by sprawl-style development tend to weigh more, are more likely to be obese and are more likely to suffer from high blood pressure.”
Poor health, poor environment, and a major strain on city finances are just a few of the effects of urban sprawl and you’re thanking Dunn and Deaconess for that?
I’m thanking Dunn and Deaconess for developing property, jobs, a gateway to our community along the Interstate, and a greater tax base to support future growth. And I’m supporting their choice of location due to the existing infrastructure that was extended precisely to stimulate growth.
There are many definitions of urban sprawl available online. I expect the ones you chose to present will support your argument, and that’s fine. But your argument is faulty as are your definitions of sprawl. Additionally, in order to control growth to the extent you would wish, it would require onerous regulation tantamount to totalitarian dictatorship.
Sprawl is poorly planned growth insufficiently supported by infrastructure.
That comes from basic of basic sources wikipedia. If you don’t like that then provide another link.
And none of that is creating jobs, it’s just moving them, see Welborn Hospital and now this downtown hotel that is being fought by those who don’t want its competition. Even the Heritage Foundation disagrees with Mitch Daniels and USDOT that 47,000 jobs are created for every billion spent on infrastructure…
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/04/more-transportation-spending-false-promises-of-prosperity-and-job-creation
“Sprawl is poorly planned growth insufficiently supported by infrastructure.”
What do you call our sewer problem? The last thing this city needs to do is “expand” i.e relocate. Manhattanization beats Detroit’s Urban Sprawl 10 out of 10 times.
“None of that was started by the free market. It was started by government building I-164 and then the town moved around it and the free market followed.”
PRECISELY!!!
And that is precisely the job of government, on the domestic level and other than national security (of which the Interstate system is an integral part), to build public infrastructure promoting economic growth. I think the concept, in the U.S., began with the Continental (Revolutionary) government extending Braddock Road from Alexandria, Virginia, out through Northern Virginia and into the Alleganies, the National Road, now known as U.S. Route 50, which opened up the Northwest Territory, and provided us eventually with the opportunity and stimulus to develop what is now Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, etc.
I disagree about the role of government, but of course you knew that. It is a fundamental disagreement. The role of government lies within the confines of the US Constitution, if Federal, and the State Constitution, if State. The US Constitution is very narrow in its description of actual duties and powers. The Federal Government is there to provide common defense, to enable free interstate commerce (i.e. prevent states from imposing tariffs and duties on goods from other states), to provide sound money (i.e. of the gold and silver variety), and to provide mediation of contract disputes via a court system. Of course, we also have the Bill of Rights which codifies a non-exhaustive list of our rights which the various states cannot violate.
The “general welfare” clause of the US Constitution has been thoroughly misused. The Federal Government was never meant to be in the business of providing interstate highways. One of the few missteps in the Eisenhower Administration.
Don’t get me wrong, interstates are a good thing on the whole, but they should have been created through State cooperation.
The biggest political hurdle with interstates was where to put them. Some towns got to become boom towns as a result of the proximity of interstates, some died because of them. For every business that sprang up because of the interstate systems, another business off the beaten track died out.
I guess it was a huge mistake, constitutionally speaking, for the federal government to extend the National Road between Cumberland, MD, and Wheeling, WV … which happened from 1811 to 1818, and of course facilitated the opening of the West via the Ohio River on Fulton’s steamboat and all those thousands of flatboats. Shame on James Madison!
Considering I busted a transmission going through that terribly designed road, now interstate, I wouldn’t have a problem with that thing never being built.
How did we get from a modern day urban sprawl argument to a federal government 1776 discussion? I liked Madison (and Alexanders) view of a strong federal gov’t with a weak if not non-existent state gov’ts but I’m not so sure I would look to him as some great American. He owned a countless number of slaves on his farm that he inherited simply because his family was rich elitists.
Bill, this is what I love about CCO debates…I always am challenged to learn something new. I confess I knew little to nothing about the road you mentioned until a moment ago, so let me start my rebuttal by saying I never said our Founders and early American leaders were without flaw.
Jefferson had slaves, Washington had Indian Wars and listened to Hamilton far too often, Monroe had his Doctrine, Franklin had his support of publicly funded libraries (admittedly not the worst of sins), Andrew Jackson had the Trail of Tears, etc. So these were men, not gods, and their fidelity to the Constitution or principles of moral humanity weren’t always as absolute as they should have been.
Nevertheless, they eventually learned their lesson as the road was consigned to the States. It is interesting to also note that despite a lack of a Federal Income Tax, the road got as far as Wheeling on a Federal budget, something most modern self-described “liberals” should puzzle over.
Yes, but I was mistaken in some details.
I think the Braddock Road was extended into what is now West Virginia independently of the National Road. And I think Braddock Road is Rte. 7 now, rather than Rte. 50. I should know these things better since I took Virginia history in Alexandria public schools. LOL.
The National Road in fact is U.S. 40, not U.S. 50, and that would make much more sense when considering how the Midwest developed.
Funding of the National Road was tied to sales of federal land in the Northwest Territory: http://www.connerprairie.org/learn-and-do/indiana-history/america-1800-1860/the-national-road.aspx
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