TALKING TO MYSELF
If I want this forum to thrive I must nurture it with a measure of restraint. If I know my comment is beyond the margin of reasonableness … I will clean it up. Any point made in good taste is more powerful. Bias is OK … but bias with balance is better. What I do when no-one is watching defines me.
VIVA City-CountyObserver! …
only the C&P would put a story about resources for suicide survivors behind a paywall. That info should be available to all
byrd
Kind of like a pay … water fountain? …
Any one in here remember the Pay Toilets that were installed in Roberts Stadium in the late 1950’s or early 1960’s? I was so little back then that I could crawl under the door and access the toilets.
Some other little kid ( I guess it was a kid as I didn’t see it, could have been an adult) took a crap right in the middle of the floor. I guess the attendant was distracted or just didn’t care.
Do you remember the attendants in the restrooms back in the days?
If you remember those things then you also probably remember the train tracks going down the middle of Division Street too.
And Finally the Courier and Press had a good thing going with the public comment section and then blew it when they went to a paid subscription. When they did that they limited their reach for their advertisers
The Evansville Visitors and Convention Center won’t be taking out any ads in the Evansville Courier and Press trying to attack out of town people to this area. Anyone trying to see the ad would have to take a subscription out for the paper and that’s not going to happen.
.
AAaaah – back in the day
Pay toilets and free air at the gas station
Trains lumbering down Division Street … smashing my pennies as they passed
Getting in trouble for smashing a valuable penny
The CourierPress: when certain stories would generate 300 or more comments in an hour
The ECVB: before building things replaced promoting Indiana’s best kept secret … EVANSVILLE
Nowdays: when I start a story by saying “back in the day” people walk away. LOL. …
“attack” or “”attract”? Choice of word lends a whole new meaning to the sentence.
Your are right about Choice of words but this was not a mistake in choice of words it was a spelling error. I left out the “r” but you some how managed to figure out that I meant to say Attract. But thanks for pointing out the missing “r” in the word. The world can’t start revolving once again now. 🙂
Yesterday my spelling would have been much worse as the web site was not accepting letters from my keyboard and slowed my typing down drastically. I would press the “R” key and no “R” would appear on the screen. The case of the missing “R”s I had this problem one other time on another web site but then it went away. Keyboard was lagging. I guess it was some type of buffer overrun.
Speaking of the C&P and it’s current policy, why would anyone place a classified ad there? I think craigslist will become more popular. I don’t even go to the C&P site at all, don’t want to be counted as a hit.
You’re right about that. There was a suicide in my family fifteen years ago, and it still hurts. I read about the high number of suicides in Evansville. The help they want to give is needed. The paper should give it all of the free publicity they can.
Relationships between our lifestyle and the Anti monopoly Act
The AMA was introduced during the postwar Allied occupation. The U.S. Government, on 6 September 1945, issued a presidential directive instructing the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers (SCAP) to dissolve Zaibatsu structures. Prior to World War II, Japan had no antitrust laws. There were seventeen Zaibatsu organisations, the four largest of which had controlled approximately a fourth of all of the paid-up capital in the Japanese economy just prior to the World War.
In opposition to General MacArthur’s fear that Zaibatsu dissolution would lead to instability, the U.S. Departments of State and Justice sent a “Special Mission on Japanese Combines” to Japan for the implementation of a comprehensive antimonopoly framework. In response, MacArthur coerced the Japanese Diet into adopting legislation known as the Antimonopoly Act (AMA), with the persuasion to them that enforcement was optional.
Sure to bring a tear of joy to your eyes (full screen recommended)
Beloved Israel “Iz” Ka’ano’i Kamakawiwo’Ole sings his renowned medley of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” and “What a Wonderful World.” Israel was among the most celebrated of Hawaiian performers with a kind and gentle spirit that is evident in his touching voice. He tragically died in 1997 of an heart attack at an early age (38) and has been sorely missed by his many adoring fans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I&index=1&list=RDV1bFr2SWP1I
He died young but will live longer than you or I. Good share.
~b~
Do the figures in the graphic on page 10 of this report paint a picture of an organization that needs the financial help of local taxpayers in order to build a medical school in Vanderburgh county?
I see that the CP is still reporting that the hotel with its infrastructure is still gonna cost $70 M in the story about the ONB naming rights. It is hard to believe how incredibly uninformed the fools that run Evansville were about the price of a hotel. This literally means that the downsized freeway hotel is costing $62.5 M for 240 rooms or $260,000 per room. I have news for you, at that price there is not a snowball’s chance in hell that this thing will make a profit.
Right. The Mayor reported that the hotel is 36 million. The other infrastructure paid for by the City is 12.5 million, although it should be less with a smaller parking garage. That 48.5 million. What’s the rest?
Good question. Read the CP article and do the math. The conclusion based on a $70M with $12.5 going for infrastructure is a $57.5 M hotel. I subtracted $7.5 M first time and that was a mistake but the conclusion that each room will be over $200k still stands and there still is not a snowballs chance in hell of making a profit. Even with your number there is a missing $10 M. The truth has not yet emerged.
With 70% of its revenue coming from the existing market, your math indicates that they will not be able to compete with the Dunns. The Dunns can rent rooms for $80 a night with their cost structure. This hotel will flounder almost immediately at that price point. The goal was always to make enough with the downtown hotel to set aside the capital necessary to maintain the building. It’s only about 4% of revenue to start, but will go up as the building ages. I don’t see it happening. That was always the issue with the Executive Inn. It couldn’t generate enough revenue to take care of itself, and we all watched what happened.
This is just a big pipedream to get more of the taxpayers money for politicians. If the Medical School brings in 50 visitors to a hotel every night, five days a week that would be good. That leaves 190 rooms empty and more on the weekend. That sounds like a broke hotel to me.
The school shouldn’t be downtown and the hotel shouldn’t get built at all.
I don’t disagree with any of your sentiments about the hotel, however, I don’t think that the rate structure comparison to the Dunn properties is accurate. I think that the Tropicana would be a better comp. Most people traveling to a different city will pay more for convenience. If you are attending an event downtown, being in walking distance is important. If you are planning to tie one on at a meeting, a game or event, convenience will trump economics. That said I question how many of the above events will occur over the course of a year. I think the construction estimate is high, and some of the missing funds are going to further subsidize construction cost to mitigate your astute observation of revenue shortfalls.
fitz,
The problem with your analysis is that only 30% of the hotels business will be conventions according to the Hunden study. The other 70% will come from people not necessarily doing something downtown- just coming to Evansville period. The idea of 10 stories of glass and steel with a rooftop bar was a bit of separating themselves from the competition. They won’t be able to do that now.
It seems to me that there is a missing $21.5 million. $70 million – $48.5 million = $21.5 million. What the ERC and HCW has spent so far comes out of the $36 million for the hotel. The old project was $78 million with a $31.5 million hotel. The infrastructure was still $12.5 million. That left $34 million for the apartments, however I read somewhere that the apartments were $15 million. What is going on here?
First ya got ‘The Bait’.
Then ya got ‘The Switch’.
Hotel cut in 1/2 (“but wider”), but the costs only go down by 8/78, or 10 %
@ Bandana on 3-7-15 at 3:48 This is a great article that every city council member and the mayor’s “people” (and mayor) need to read. By the author’s definition, downtown Evansville is not a place for a new hotel. It may have worked to remodel the old exec. inn but that would have been very expensive. And all the amenities that are proposed on this new hotel (restaurant, bar, etc) are cause for its collapse going forward. I certainly was not or am not highly versed in this business but that article makes clear what a line of bull has been shoveled down our throats. I would like to be able to send that to every city council person but I am afraid that I would mess up the transfer. Could someone do it for me please?
Does our leaders belive that since as a government entity they are not profit motivated they are insulated from the consequences of losses? Your calculations are simple arithmetic not calculus. You can’t blame common core for their failure to use the calculator any cell phone has.
I wish we would hear more than platitudes from Gail on this issue.
I do too. All she has to do is use the word “sustainable.” That would mean a smaller hotel to start that could be expanded. It still creates work for labor and requires prevailing wage. In fact it is better for labor, because it creates work now, and if the convention business is as good as Bob Warren claims, it also creates another large project in 5 years.
You’re last sentence says it all -“if the convention business is as good as Bob Warren claims……”. It’s simply not. Consider, why would a person come to a convention or book a convention in Evansville as it stands now? What’s the draw? Think who we will be competing against for a declining convention business. It is Bob’s job to sell such ideas and he has been rattling that chain for a long time now but it still does not sound quite true to me (and to lot of folks, I think). This hotel is a huge gamble with money that Evansville does not have to lose. Mayor, let’s get over this already and move on to the real world problems that Evansville has which need attention right now.
Martha, Gambling is a draw. Not everyone has a casino close to where they live.
IE, you need to refresh my memory when Winnie was running for mayor four years ago.
Did LW question anything that that the sitting mayor was doing? Has he change coarse
on anything the previous mayor had going even after being elected? This issue your asking
about Gail may be in process before she starts her new mayor’s job in January?
I have no idea. I was in a anybody is better than Just mood, but I supported Davis. Now I am a little wiser and also aware of Gail’s history. If she wants votes like mine, she will have to give me a reason to believe that she is different than the last two mayors. Otherwise, I will have to vote for LW and hope a democrat CC will hold him back. From what I sense, Gail with a democrat CC will unprecedented in spending.
IE, with you as a business person know it is not wise to think that result will be different, by using/doing the same mistake over and over. Time for a different
“sand flipper”!
Unless the city council changes (that is Mosby, Weaver, and Mc Ginn go away), and 3 strong intellengent thinkers are elected who can function without fear, we are better off with anyone but the current mayor. And if fact we are still better off without him.
Your statements above are very illogical IE. Reread what you wrote like someone else wrote it and you will probably see how inane it sounds. You are saying that we should keep the same mix of people and hope for a different result. That’s the definition of insanity. What you should say is we have a better chance at a different result the more people we can replace (up to a point) on the city council and in the mayor’s office. So let’s start with the mayor’s office and see what council seats we can change over too.
The last 11 years of politics in this city has been messy to say the last. First it was sewers before stadiums, stadiums won that argument, it’s a dead issue. If we build the stadium we will get a free hotel. Then the Executive was torn down so we would need a new hotel. No responders to build a new free hotel.The first plans for the new hotel was the super luxury model with a play area and condos for the rich liberal elite of Vanderburgh county. The peasants weren’t going for that, so now there’s a plan for the economy model and the peasants are still upset because the idea was brought forth by a republican. The bottom line is that after 5 years the new hotel, if built, belongs to HCW and the debt belongs to the citizens of Evansville. If we offered a free lot and 20 years of tax abatement would we have a taker? Do we really need a hotel? Maybe we should tear down the walkway to nowhere and turn the rest of the space into parking lots. This is what I think is the best idea. Build a skyline people mover/conveyor from Topicana to the arena and let Tropicana build a new hotel when they move on land. As far as the medical school, it’s a pipe dream, it’s number 37 on an IU list of 37, so with everything else was in place is IU ready or is it even on their list of things to accomplish in the next 20 years.
pov,
I don’t agree with much of the things you say but you are on it here. In fact I wrote emails to 6 of the city council members and expressed some of these ideas to them. Basically a hotel will come when we need one from a private business party and our money (the citizens taxes of all kinds) won’t be on the hook. Of course we could always start a pool and those who wanted to have the hotel built could donate to it. Let’s see if we hit that $20 million.
How old is the study that got all of this started in the first place? I don’t think the people that did that study would think the same thing if they knew what is happening now. It isn’t logical to think a lot of conventions are going to come here. I read that the convention business is dying, but the big wheels want us to jump in head first. That only makes sense if they are going to make a profit from it because nobody else will make any money out of it.
Hilarious!!
The Daily Caller, Breitbart, Newmax and all the RW nutjob websites caught in a huge journalistic FAIL.
This is the caca that Joe the fake-o posts here everyday, you know his FACTS.
The Conservatives put the Con in Conservative. Good point. They don’t care if they get it right or tell the truth. As long as the Right Wing-nuts and Conservative Media have any talking point that they can use to try to discredit Obama they will use it. Sad but true. Thank god many people don’t fall for that BS and think for themselves and are not lead around by the Right Wing Slanted Media Bias.
Move, The thinking people showed how they feel in the 2014 elections.
The people spoke on Marsha Abell as well, bye-bye!
Hopefully the people will speak again with the current mayor, bye-bye!
Arm, You don’t have a Mayor. You have Commissioners.
Cowboy,
You are right about not having a “sand flipping” mayor out here.
Those county government voters (that includes those city dwellers as well)
blast that failed merger attempt by a 2 to 1 ratio! Only a hand full of city
precincts even favored the merger. As long as I have a 6% city tax on my
property tax billing, I will commit on the circus (city government) as I
see fit. I hear that the performing elephants are being phased out because
of the pressure from PETA. Maybe this is the current administration
opportunity to break into show business. They appeared to had plenty
of circus training of late!
The fair and balanced media does not help Obama look stupid, he does that all by himself.
The democrats put the con in office and now we have the fraud center.
My comment tbis week is that Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson will not face Federal Civil rights charges. Unfortunately this was almost totally disregard by the media due to the report by DOJ of the Ferguson Pooice Dept.
All three autopsies showed that the criminal was not shot in the back or that he had his hands up There are independent witnesses that backed tte officer actions.
Wilson will forever be linked to this incident. He is an innocent man. He has been investigated by the Federal government and state government. He has lost his job and now has to keep a low profile due to death threats.
Good Luck Mr Wilson
AG Holder had a hard time even mentioning the no indictment of the officer.
My son is a high school freshman “civics” teacher over there in Louisville as his first job.
He is basically as I am, attitude of a person supersedes their color. Anyway, he had told me
of his planned discussion on that Ferguson incident as a classroom discussion of which is 80%
black in all four of his classes. The 80% said it was racism when a white cop shoots a black.
When my son asked had the officer been black, and the one shot was white. Would that be
racism. That same 80% were very adamant that it was not! Go figure!
Maybe that’s why we can’t all get along together. I have little doubt that is survey is true. I have at times in my life not liked cops because they have gotten in the way of my poor behavior. They have taken money from me due to my poor behavior but in the process they have modified my behavior. I now follow the rules of the road, drive the speed limit, practice proper use of my turn signals and follow all instructions given to me by police officers. I always use my seat belt and my auto doesn’t move until all belts are buckled. I have never acted aggressive toward a police officer, even though I went to public schools and received a lesser education, I know that acting aggressive toward a police officer can get you locked up, your butt whipped or even dead. It could get you a felony charge and hurt your employment opportunities and you live the remainder of your years poor and miserable. I don’t have a lot of money but I’m emotionally attached to what little I have and don’t want to waste it because I can’t/don’t follow the rules. If it wasn’t for the police people would be scared to leave their homes. The roads would be more dangerous than ever. The police do not make the laws, politicians do, the people we elect. We pay police officers to enforce those laws and pay judges to punish those who break laws. We have those in our society who constantly complain about fairness and how the world is not fair, it’s not fair because you don’t act right. If you don’t like cops don’t bring attention to yourself.
The climate migrations proceeding now will continue to beat down and break Evansville’s basic infrastructures. Hard, stuff, but its just pure predictable thermodynamic law. Pretty much what really does rule the known universe.
How one can sport the excessive cost of the cookie cutter squeeze required to build projects in that failed and mandated downtown infrastructure is “appalling to anyone” in the sciences of human progression.
Hold the money until they show you their new cheapo hotel plan. Its now what you were led too believe your input valuation was based on. Period.
That needs to hit the scales again so the actuality of the proposal is what they fogged and reflected to you the last four or five times. Gees. wow, what a bait and switch and they still want your total projected skin in the game………………
The town/ county as a whole is in severe neglected infrastructure, yet some of the highest daily utility costing as observed by the overhead. Our global social economic analytical group observes the failures daily . Good grief do you have that. One would have to guess once the outcome of your cities Administration is solved by the elective process we might approach them with the solution, The plan, the balanced and sustainable pathways to growth and regional enterprise.
Something, in reality Evansville has not seen or sustained for a very long time.
an·a·lyt·i·cal
ˌanəˈlidik(ə)l/
adjective
relating to or using analysis or logical reasoning.
“analytical methods”
synonyms: systematic, logical, scientific, methodical, left-brained, (well) organized, ordered, orderly, meticulous, rigorous; diagnostic
“the best projects take a more analytical approach and try to work out some key principles needed to move forward”
Wow, is that an osprey at EVV Tristate ,thinking so, that was cool.
ONB naming rights–Courier & Press, Sunday 3/8:
Front page article, it reports that ONB is now going to put $ 10 Million into the Downtown Motel.
That’s interesting. When Round 4 failed in December, Bob Jones of ONB said the naming rights valuation was $ 6.5 Million short (of the $ 14 Million commitment). The guy from HCW said the naming rights valuation was $ 8 Million short (of the $ 14 Million commitment). Gosh, both of those figures are LESS than ONB’s new $ 10 Million number . . . has The Centre suddenly shot up in value ?
I doubt it: same article says The Centre lost $ 800,000 in 2014 . . . that’s a bad year even for The Centre.
I’m wondering how the Mayor can say that the funding is in place and the hotel won’t cost more than they have in the budget when the plans for the new hotel have not been shown to the pubic. Surely they have plans drawn up so that they can do a cost analysis of this project. And if not then why not? If they have these plans then why don’t they show the pubic what the new hotel design will look like? Do they have any artistic renditions of the new hotel to show to the public?
Call me skeptical but this carrot (Hotel) has been dangling in front of our faces for a long time now.
The city council should want to see PROOF. Show them the plans and cost figures.
On Friday the Editor said that probably only SBR and Al Lindsey would vote to take back the hotel money. I want to see a vote. We need to see where ever City Councilman stands. That would help a lot of people decide who to vote for.
I see that Kelly Coures has a letter in the Courier about how we have to have the bike paths on North Main and it won’t really cost us anything because it’s a grant of some kind. I think there is no excuse to waste money and the things they talk about doing will be a big waste. Clean up crime and crack houses, then make bike paths.
The stuff your city is sporting into North Americas clean water balance ,into your streets and basements is really flat out cringe worthy . We see and record that everyday, so does the other overhead counts ,now.
“Everybody knows it” . there you have it the # 1 thing you need to start in on, the projects over that stuff are no more than bailout pathways for those that went all in on the stupid location of the unneeded __ord center ie; “jiffy pop arena ”
If someone dares to ask you “What’s in your driveway”? Tell’um thanks to you “not so much” valuation. Unless one can change the toxic waste into silver. Used, silver because gold kind of takes on the appearance of septic deposits when the rate they charge you all for a simple 21st century sewer and water utilities gold diggers.
Call back the funding on that cheap CSO zone hotel , until someone shows a plan to fix the infrastructure where most of the actual CONTRIBUTING revenue base is.
Wide Motel Downtown (WMD).
Is this related to the Weapons of Mass Distraction (WMD) Friend was citing when the City Council chose not to expose the SBOA Whitewash ?
A shorter and wider motel downtown . . . isn’t this contrary to the Chicken Fat video going away ?
Bandana – I left you a comment regarding the article that you posted about hotel management yesterday and I hope you go back and read it. I believe it is worth everyone’s while to read it and then sent a copy to your ward representative. For my money, that article by a very well informed business person in Forbes pretty much tells a story of extremely probable failure for this proposed hotel. This would be why we don’t see the Dunn family moving fast to build a hotel downtown. They will wait for this one to die a quick death and they buy the remains on the cheap. Of course there goes the public’s money. And I don’t blame the Dunn family a bit if the city is that dumb to go forward.
Thanks Martha. I’d be glad to send that link to all the council people but it would be a waste of time. They already know it’s a loser. This thing is being driven by crass politics not what’s best for Evansville.
TALKING TO MYSELF
If I want this forum to thrive I must nurture it with a measure of restraint. If I know my comment is beyond the margin of reasonableness … I will clean it up. Any point made in good taste is more powerful. Bias is OK … but bias with balance is better. What I do when no-one is watching defines me.
VIVA City-CountyObserver! …
only the C&P would put a story about resources for suicide survivors behind a paywall. That info should be available to all
byrd
Kind of like a pay … water fountain? …
Any one in here remember the Pay Toilets that were installed in Roberts Stadium in the late 1950’s or early 1960’s? I was so little back then that I could crawl under the door and access the toilets.
Some other little kid ( I guess it was a kid as I didn’t see it, could have been an adult) took a crap right in the middle of the floor. I guess the attendant was distracted or just didn’t care.
Do you remember the attendants in the restrooms back in the days?
If you remember those things then you also probably remember the train tracks going down the middle of Division Street too.
And Finally the Courier and Press had a good thing going with the public comment section and then blew it when they went to a paid subscription. When they did that they limited their reach for their advertisers
The Evansville Visitors and Convention Center won’t be taking out any ads in the Evansville Courier and Press trying to attack out of town people to this area. Anyone trying to see the ad would have to take a subscription out for the paper and that’s not going to happen.
.
AAaaah – back in the day
Pay toilets and free air at the gas station
Trains lumbering down Division Street … smashing my pennies as they passed
Getting in trouble for smashing a valuable penny
The CourierPress: when certain stories would generate 300 or more comments in an hour
The ECVB: before building things replaced promoting Indiana’s best kept secret … EVANSVILLE
Nowdays: when I start a story by saying “back in the day” people walk away. LOL. …
“attack” or “”attract”? Choice of word lends a whole new meaning to the sentence.
Your are right about Choice of words but this was not a mistake in choice of words it was a spelling error. I left out the “r” but you some how managed to figure out that I meant to say Attract. But thanks for pointing out the missing “r” in the word. The world can’t start revolving once again now. 🙂
Yesterday my spelling would have been much worse as the web site was not accepting letters from my keyboard and slowed my typing down drastically. I would press the “R” key and no “R” would appear on the screen. The case of the missing “R”s I had this problem one other time on another web site but then it went away. Keyboard was lagging. I guess it was some type of buffer overrun.
Speaking of the C&P and it’s current policy, why would anyone place a classified ad there? I think craigslist will become more popular. I don’t even go to the C&P site at all, don’t want to be counted as a hit.
You’re right about that. There was a suicide in my family fifteen years ago, and it still hurts. I read about the high number of suicides in Evansville. The help they want to give is needed. The paper should give it all of the free publicity they can.
Relationships between our lifestyle and the Anti monopoly Act
http://www.jftc.go.jp/en/ippan/part1/demerit.html
J, Buy a paper. You may help to save a local job.
https://jfunfun.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/whiplash-rides-again7.jpg
Japan’s Anti Monopoly Act (AMA)
The AMA was introduced during the postwar Allied occupation. The U.S. Government, on 6 September 1945, issued a presidential directive instructing the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers (SCAP) to dissolve Zaibatsu structures. Prior to World War II, Japan had no antitrust laws. There were seventeen Zaibatsu organisations, the four largest of which had controlled approximately a fourth of all of the paid-up capital in the Japanese economy just prior to the World War.
In opposition to General MacArthur’s fear that Zaibatsu dissolution would lead to instability, the U.S. Departments of State and Justice sent a “Special Mission on Japanese Combines” to Japan for the implementation of a comprehensive antimonopoly framework. In response, MacArthur coerced the Japanese Diet into adopting legislation known as the Antimonopoly Act (AMA), with the persuasion to them that enforcement was optional.
Sure to bring a tear of joy to your eyes (full screen recommended)
Beloved Israel “Iz” Ka’ano’i Kamakawiwo’Ole sings his renowned medley of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” and “What a Wonderful World.” Israel was among the most celebrated of Hawaiian performers with a kind and gentle spirit that is evident in his touching voice. He tragically died in 1997 of an heart attack at an early age (38) and has been sorely missed by his many adoring fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I&index=1&list=RDV1bFr2SWP1I
Correction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I
He died young but will live longer than you or I. Good share.
~b~
Do the figures in the graphic on page 10 of this report paint a picture of an organization that needs the financial help of local taxpayers in order to build a medical school in Vanderburgh county?
http://vpcfo.iu.edu/doc/fy2014.pdf
I see that the CP is still reporting that the hotel with its infrastructure is still gonna cost $70 M in the story about the ONB naming rights. It is hard to believe how incredibly uninformed the fools that run Evansville were about the price of a hotel. This literally means that the downsized freeway hotel is costing $62.5 M for 240 rooms or $260,000 per room. I have news for you, at that price there is not a snowball’s chance in hell that this thing will make a profit.
Right. The Mayor reported that the hotel is 36 million. The other infrastructure paid for by the City is 12.5 million, although it should be less with a smaller parking garage. That 48.5 million. What’s the rest?
Good question. Read the CP article and do the math. The conclusion based on a $70M with $12.5 going for infrastructure is a $57.5 M hotel. I subtracted $7.5 M first time and that was a mistake but the conclusion that each room will be over $200k still stands and there still is not a snowballs chance in hell of making a profit. Even with your number there is a missing $10 M. The truth has not yet emerged.
With 70% of its revenue coming from the existing market, your math indicates that they will not be able to compete with the Dunns. The Dunns can rent rooms for $80 a night with their cost structure. This hotel will flounder almost immediately at that price point. The goal was always to make enough with the downtown hotel to set aside the capital necessary to maintain the building. It’s only about 4% of revenue to start, but will go up as the building ages. I don’t see it happening. That was always the issue with the Executive Inn. It couldn’t generate enough revenue to take care of itself, and we all watched what happened.
This is just a big pipedream to get more of the taxpayers money for politicians. If the Medical School brings in 50 visitors to a hotel every night, five days a week that would be good. That leaves 190 rooms empty and more on the weekend. That sounds like a broke hotel to me.
The school shouldn’t be downtown and the hotel shouldn’t get built at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfOqXFcycB8
I don’t disagree with any of your sentiments about the hotel, however, I don’t think that the rate structure comparison to the Dunn properties is accurate. I think that the Tropicana would be a better comp. Most people traveling to a different city will pay more for convenience. If you are attending an event downtown, being in walking distance is important. If you are planning to tie one on at a meeting, a game or event, convenience will trump economics. That said I question how many of the above events will occur over the course of a year. I think the construction estimate is high, and some of the missing funds are going to further subsidize construction cost to mitigate your astute observation of revenue shortfalls.
Excellent article on what it takes to start a hotel. Well worth reading.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/02/28/what-does-it-take-to-start-a-hotel/
fitz,
The problem with your analysis is that only 30% of the hotels business will be conventions according to the Hunden study. The other 70% will come from people not necessarily doing something downtown- just coming to Evansville period. The idea of 10 stories of glass and steel with a rooftop bar was a bit of separating themselves from the competition. They won’t be able to do that now.
It seems to me that there is a missing $21.5 million. $70 million – $48.5 million = $21.5 million. What the ERC and HCW has spent so far comes out of the $36 million for the hotel. The old project was $78 million with a $31.5 million hotel. The infrastructure was still $12.5 million. That left $34 million for the apartments, however I read somewhere that the apartments were $15 million. What is going on here?
First ya got ‘The Bait’.
Then ya got ‘The Switch’.
Hotel cut in 1/2 (“but wider”), but the costs only go down by 8/78, or 10 %
@ Bandana on 3-7-15 at 3:48 This is a great article that every city council member and the mayor’s “people” (and mayor) need to read. By the author’s definition, downtown Evansville is not a place for a new hotel. It may have worked to remodel the old exec. inn but that would have been very expensive. And all the amenities that are proposed on this new hotel (restaurant, bar, etc) are cause for its collapse going forward. I certainly was not or am not highly versed in this business but that article makes clear what a line of bull has been shoveled down our throats. I would like to be able to send that to every city council person but I am afraid that I would mess up the transfer. Could someone do it for me please?
Does our leaders belive that since as a government entity they are not profit motivated they are insulated from the consequences of losses? Your calculations are simple arithmetic not calculus. You can’t blame common core for their failure to use the calculator any cell phone has.
I wish we would hear more than platitudes from Gail on this issue.
I do too. All she has to do is use the word “sustainable.” That would mean a smaller hotel to start that could be expanded. It still creates work for labor and requires prevailing wage. In fact it is better for labor, because it creates work now, and if the convention business is as good as Bob Warren claims, it also creates another large project in 5 years.
You’re last sentence says it all -“if the convention business is as good as Bob Warren claims……”. It’s simply not. Consider, why would a person come to a convention or book a convention in Evansville as it stands now? What’s the draw? Think who we will be competing against for a declining convention business. It is Bob’s job to sell such ideas and he has been rattling that chain for a long time now but it still does not sound quite true to me (and to lot of folks, I think). This hotel is a huge gamble with money that Evansville does not have to lose. Mayor, let’s get over this already and move on to the real world problems that Evansville has which need attention right now.
Martha, Gambling is a draw. Not everyone has a casino close to where they live.
IE, you need to refresh my memory when Winnie was running for mayor four years ago.
Did LW question anything that that the sitting mayor was doing? Has he change coarse
on anything the previous mayor had going even after being elected? This issue your asking
about Gail may be in process before she starts her new mayor’s job in January?
I have no idea. I was in a anybody is better than Just mood, but I supported Davis. Now I am a little wiser and also aware of Gail’s history. If she wants votes like mine, she will have to give me a reason to believe that she is different than the last two mayors. Otherwise, I will have to vote for LW and hope a democrat CC will hold him back. From what I sense, Gail with a democrat CC will unprecedented in spending.
IE, with you as a business person know it is not wise to think that result will be different, by using/doing the same mistake over and over. Time for a different
“sand flipper”!
Unless the city council changes (that is Mosby, Weaver, and Mc Ginn go away), and 3 strong intellengent thinkers are elected who can function without fear, we are better off with anyone but the current mayor. And if fact we are still better off without him.
Your statements above are very illogical IE. Reread what you wrote like someone else wrote it and you will probably see how inane it sounds. You are saying that we should keep the same mix of people and hope for a different result. That’s the definition of insanity. What you should say is we have a better chance at a different result the more people we can replace (up to a point) on the city council and in the mayor’s office. So let’s start with the mayor’s office and see what council seats we can change over too.
+1
http://www.lastsource.com/three-card-monte/
The last 11 years of politics in this city has been messy to say the last. First it was sewers before stadiums, stadiums won that argument, it’s a dead issue. If we build the stadium we will get a free hotel. Then the Executive was torn down so we would need a new hotel. No responders to build a new free hotel.The first plans for the new hotel was the super luxury model with a play area and condos for the rich liberal elite of Vanderburgh county. The peasants weren’t going for that, so now there’s a plan for the economy model and the peasants are still upset because the idea was brought forth by a republican. The bottom line is that after 5 years the new hotel, if built, belongs to HCW and the debt belongs to the citizens of Evansville. If we offered a free lot and 20 years of tax abatement would we have a taker? Do we really need a hotel? Maybe we should tear down the walkway to nowhere and turn the rest of the space into parking lots. This is what I think is the best idea. Build a skyline people mover/conveyor from Topicana to the arena and let Tropicana build a new hotel when they move on land. As far as the medical school, it’s a pipe dream, it’s number 37 on an IU list of 37, so with everything else was in place is IU ready or is it even on their list of things to accomplish in the next 20 years.
pov,
I don’t agree with much of the things you say but you are on it here. In fact I wrote emails to 6 of the city council members and expressed some of these ideas to them. Basically a hotel will come when we need one from a private business party and our money (the citizens taxes of all kinds) won’t be on the hook. Of course we could always start a pool and those who wanted to have the hotel built could donate to it. Let’s see if we hit that $20 million.
How old is the study that got all of this started in the first place? I don’t think the people that did that study would think the same thing if they knew what is happening now. It isn’t logical to think a lot of conventions are going to come here. I read that the convention business is dying, but the big wheels want us to jump in head first. That only makes sense if they are going to make a profit from it because nobody else will make any money out of it.
Hilarious!!
The Daily Caller, Breitbart, Newmax and all the RW nutjob websites caught in a huge journalistic FAIL.
This is the caca that Joe the fake-o posts here everyday, you know his FACTS.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYbhPctwpYE
B.B., And who is this “expert” in the film. I didn’t make it all the way through. If it happened you wouldn’t get the truth out of the White House.
http://alankikuchidesign.com/wp-content/uploads/gallery/Hogwash-01a.jpg
The Conservatives put the Con in Conservative. Good point. They don’t care if they get it right or tell the truth. As long as the Right Wing-nuts and Conservative Media have any talking point that they can use to try to discredit Obama they will use it. Sad but true. Thank god many people don’t fall for that BS and think for themselves and are not lead around by the Right Wing Slanted Media Bias.
Move, The thinking people showed how they feel in the 2014 elections.
The people spoke on Marsha Abell as well, bye-bye!
Hopefully the people will speak again with the current mayor, bye-bye!
Arm, You don’t have a Mayor. You have Commissioners.
Cowboy,
You are right about not having a “sand flipping” mayor out here.
Those county government voters (that includes those city dwellers as well)
blast that failed merger attempt by a 2 to 1 ratio! Only a hand full of city
precincts even favored the merger. As long as I have a 6% city tax on my
property tax billing, I will commit on the circus (city government) as I
see fit. I hear that the performing elephants are being phased out because
of the pressure from PETA. Maybe this is the current administration
opportunity to break into show business. They appeared to had plenty
of circus training of late!
The fair and balanced media does not help Obama look stupid, he does that all by himself.
The democrats put the con in office and now we have the fraud center.
My comment tbis week is that Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson will not face Federal Civil rights charges. Unfortunately this was almost totally disregard by the media due to the report by DOJ of the Ferguson Pooice Dept.
All three autopsies showed that the criminal was not shot in the back or that he had his hands up There are independent witnesses that backed tte officer actions.
Wilson will forever be linked to this incident. He is an innocent man. He has been investigated by the Federal government and state government. He has lost his job and now has to keep a low profile due to death threats.
Good Luck Mr Wilson
AG Holder had a hard time even mentioning the no indictment of the officer.
http://haroldshogwash.com/images/logo.png
My son is a high school freshman “civics” teacher over there in Louisville as his first job.
He is basically as I am, attitude of a person supersedes their color. Anyway, he had told me
of his planned discussion on that Ferguson incident as a classroom discussion of which is 80%
black in all four of his classes. The 80% said it was racism when a white cop shoots a black.
When my son asked had the officer been black, and the one shot was white. Would that be
racism. That same 80% were very adamant that it was not! Go figure!
Maybe that’s why we can’t all get along together. I have little doubt that is survey is true. I have at times in my life not liked cops because they have gotten in the way of my poor behavior. They have taken money from me due to my poor behavior but in the process they have modified my behavior. I now follow the rules of the road, drive the speed limit, practice proper use of my turn signals and follow all instructions given to me by police officers. I always use my seat belt and my auto doesn’t move until all belts are buckled. I have never acted aggressive toward a police officer, even though I went to public schools and received a lesser education, I know that acting aggressive toward a police officer can get you locked up, your butt whipped or even dead. It could get you a felony charge and hurt your employment opportunities and you live the remainder of your years poor and miserable. I don’t have a lot of money but I’m emotionally attached to what little I have and don’t want to waste it because I can’t/don’t follow the rules. If it wasn’t for the police people would be scared to leave their homes. The roads would be more dangerous than ever. The police do not make the laws, politicians do, the people we elect. We pay police officers to enforce those laws and pay judges to punish those who break laws. We have those in our society who constantly complain about fairness and how the world is not fair, it’s not fair because you don’t act right. If you don’t like cops don’t bring attention to yourself.
The climate migrations proceeding now will continue to beat down and break Evansville’s basic infrastructures. Hard, stuff, but its just pure predictable thermodynamic law. Pretty much what really does rule the known universe.
How one can sport the excessive cost of the cookie cutter squeeze required to build projects in that failed and mandated downtown infrastructure is “appalling to anyone” in the sciences of human progression.
Hold the money until they show you their new cheapo hotel plan. Its now what you were led too believe your input valuation was based on. Period.
That needs to hit the scales again so the actuality of the proposal is what they fogged and reflected to you the last four or five times. Gees. wow, what a bait and switch and they still want your total projected skin in the game………………
The town/ county as a whole is in severe neglected infrastructure, yet some of the highest daily utility costing as observed by the overhead. Our global social economic analytical group observes the failures daily . Good grief do you have that. One would have to guess once the outcome of your cities Administration is solved by the elective process we might approach them with the solution, The plan, the balanced and sustainable pathways to growth and regional enterprise.
Something, in reality Evansville has not seen or sustained for a very long time.
an·a·lyt·i·cal
ˌanəˈlidik(ə)l/
adjective
relating to or using analysis or logical reasoning.
“analytical methods”
synonyms: systematic, logical, scientific, methodical, left-brained, (well) organized, ordered, orderly, meticulous, rigorous; diagnostic
“the best projects take a more analytical approach and try to work out some key principles needed to move forward”
Wow, is that an osprey at EVV Tristate ,thinking so, that was cool.
ONB naming rights–Courier & Press, Sunday 3/8:
Front page article, it reports that ONB is now going to put $ 10 Million into the Downtown Motel.
That’s interesting. When Round 4 failed in December, Bob Jones of ONB said the naming rights valuation was $ 6.5 Million short (of the $ 14 Million commitment). The guy from HCW said the naming rights valuation was $ 8 Million short (of the $ 14 Million commitment). Gosh, both of those figures are LESS than ONB’s new $ 10 Million number . . . has The Centre suddenly shot up in value ?
I doubt it: same article says The Centre lost $ 800,000 in 2014 . . . that’s a bad year even for The Centre.
I’m wondering how the Mayor can say that the funding is in place and the hotel won’t cost more than they have in the budget when the plans for the new hotel have not been shown to the pubic. Surely they have plans drawn up so that they can do a cost analysis of this project. And if not then why not? If they have these plans then why don’t they show the pubic what the new hotel design will look like? Do they have any artistic renditions of the new hotel to show to the public?
Call me skeptical but this carrot (Hotel) has been dangling in front of our faces for a long time now.
The city council should want to see PROOF. Show them the plans and cost figures.
On Friday the Editor said that probably only SBR and Al Lindsey would vote to take back the hotel money. I want to see a vote. We need to see where ever City Councilman stands. That would help a lot of people decide who to vote for.
I see that Kelly Coures has a letter in the Courier about how we have to have the bike paths on North Main and it won’t really cost us anything because it’s a grant of some kind. I think there is no excuse to waste money and the things they talk about doing will be a big waste. Clean up crime and crack houses, then make bike paths.
The stuff your city is sporting into North Americas clean water balance ,into your streets and basements is really flat out cringe worthy . We see and record that everyday, so does the other overhead counts ,now.
“Everybody knows it” . there you have it the # 1 thing you need to start in on, the projects over that stuff are no more than bailout pathways for those that went all in on the stupid location of the unneeded __ord center ie; “jiffy pop arena ”
If someone dares to ask you “What’s in your driveway”? Tell’um thanks to you “not so much” valuation. Unless one can change the toxic waste into silver. Used, silver because gold kind of takes on the appearance of septic deposits when the rate they charge you all for a simple 21st century sewer and water utilities gold diggers.
Call back the funding on that cheap CSO zone hotel , until someone shows a plan to fix the infrastructure where most of the actual CONTRIBUTING revenue base is.
Wide Motel Downtown (WMD).
Is this related to the Weapons of Mass Distraction (WMD) Friend was citing when the City Council chose not to expose the SBOA Whitewash ?
A shorter and wider motel downtown . . . isn’t this contrary to the Chicken Fat video going away ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlmvSaLYlVM
Bandana – I left you a comment regarding the article that you posted about hotel management yesterday and I hope you go back and read it. I believe it is worth everyone’s while to read it and then sent a copy to your ward representative. For my money, that article by a very well informed business person in Forbes pretty much tells a story of extremely probable failure for this proposed hotel. This would be why we don’t see the Dunn family moving fast to build a hotel downtown. They will wait for this one to die a quick death and they buy the remains on the cheap. Of course there goes the public’s money. And I don’t blame the Dunn family a bit if the city is that dumb to go forward.
Thanks Martha. I’d be glad to send that link to all the council people but it would be a waste of time. They already know it’s a loser. This thing is being driven by crass politics not what’s best for Evansville.
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