IS IT TRUE that one of the problems cited as justification to shove the Johnson Controls smart meters sneakily down the people of Evansville’s throat by former Mayor Weinzapfel was that too much water was “missing”?…the definition of missing in this context was water known to have been put into the pipes that was not showing up on anyone’s water bill?…given the location of the meter it is highly probable that all of the missing water is being squandered by decrepit pipes owned and non maintained by the City of Evansville?…just because the clown posse at the water department is managing a leaky vessel is no reason to take it out on the ratepayers who already pay for leaks in their own systems by virtue of the meter locations?…that the other missing water is the water that the City of Evansville purposely releases into the streets during dry periods to keep the decrepit pipes from drying out and leaking even more?…the bottom line is that the only way Johnson Controls math works is for people to pay higher bills and that is what we will be doing?…the other dirty little secret is that the projected life of these meters is less than the time it will take to pay them off?…what we have folks is a perpetual debt for slick new meters that accrued to the benefit of our former Mayor who bought the things by executive order?…of course the current Mayor and City Council let him get by with it?
IS IT TRUE we are pleased to congratulate the Mater Dei football Wildcats who are returning to the Indiana State Championship?…we wish them well in bringing another state championship home to Evansville?…there must be some good football water in those west side pipes as Reitz and Mater Dei always seem to field exceptional teams?…in keeping with the football theme, Evansville’s closest Division 1 football program, the Louisville Cardinals went into South Bend for the first time and defeated the Notre Dame Fighting Irish on their home turf?…it was a well fought game that came down to a missed field goal with a minute to play?…according to the ABC crew calling the game this was only the 5th time in 128 years of Notre Dame football that a first time opponent walked away from a South Bend with a victory?
IS IT TRUE the proposal made by City Council members Missy Mosby and Jonathan Weaver to act as a bank for people who can’t afford to do unneeded repairs to their water lines to accommodate the unwelcome Johnson Controls smart meters may cost the City of Evansville some serious money up front?…if out of the some 6,000 customers who were slated to receive the controversial “fix it or pay” letters all accept the financing deal Mosby and Weaver are proposing, the tab to the City to front this deal could easily amount to $10 million?…that is easy math assuming 5,000 repairs at an average of $2,000 each?…it could have a high of $30 million in a worst case scenario so we must ask “where on earth is a city that is struggling with debt and scrounging for boat money going to get these funds?”…we guess that another bond issue of 8 figures will be required at 5% interest to cover the up front cost of this proposal?…we bet this is a non starter if anyone on the City Council has a command of 3rd grade arithmetic?
IS IT TRUE…with the next session of the Indiana Legislature preparing to convene the City County Observer would like to inject some ideas that reflect good public policy on the state level?…the law prohibiting the sale of automobiles on Sunday is archaic and cost the states businesses money and cost the state tax dollars?…the ban on selling alcohol which traces back to prohibition also costs the state tax dollars and encourages over buying on Saturday night?…allowing casinos on water (or land designated to be water) is just stupid?…as it has been proven locally the cities of Indiana do not have the resolve to protect the public health of their citizens with a smoking ban so the state is the only hope to eliminate one of the biggest contributors to the misery index?…in the name of good public policy, the State of Indiana should allow all things to be sold equally on Sunday including gambling and enact a statewide smoking ban?…taxes with increase and public health will be promoted if a way to do these simple things can be found?
FOOTNOTE : PLEASE GO TO OUR “READERS POLL” AND VOTE.
Re: last paragraph. Your party that claims to be for deregulation could have changed all that a long time ago. Hypocrites, as usual.
This is the bottom line for me: These things could have been taken care of years ago, and should have been, but this is Indiana. In the 21st century, it is past time to get rid of the “blue laws” and I don’t care who does it, so long as it gets done.
As for the gambling and smoking, both are addictions for individuals, and the state is addicted to the money they raise. I suspect the State’s addictions will rule on both those sicknesses.
One of these days, you’ll probably blame republicans for not doing more to stop our president in his freewheeling ways. It’s amusing that you can take any issue at all and find a way to blame republicans Ah Ghost, you are always good for comic relief.
No mention/or hint of any political party,or leanings of, in her post. To be fair based from a lot of your past post, you do the same to blame the Democrats! Finding common ground works wonder at times!
I am a fiscal conservative and I lean towards libertarian social policies. I am for less government, especially in our day-to-day lives. Further, I don’t believe it’s up to the government to take my tax dollars in order to subsidize businesses and people who can but choose not to work. It’s pretty simple actually: liberty through personal responsibility. Nothing too radical there.
But you want to be told you can’t buy beer on Sundays as long as the Republicans are the ones telling you…. got it. I bet you’re all for the government telling others what to do in their bedrooms also.
You seem to know a lot about what is going on in the Civic Center, Ellen, judging from your posts made in the past. Do you work there, or do you do business there?
As for government in your day-to-day life, what good ambition of yours was thwarted by it? I know government workers try to keep us from poisoning our families with substandard food and water, they try to keep impaired drivers off the roads, save us from burning homes, and make sure that our homes are built to be structurally sound, pick up our trash, repair roads, and do a host of other things that would be hard for us to do on our own. Government has never kept me from marketing my skills, cooking a well-balanced meal, educating my children beyond what the schools offer, forced me to live in an unsafe environment, or do anything else of worth for myself, my family, and/or society. Of course, it could be made better and I have always tried to participate in making it better. Paying taxes can be a pain in the rear, but I surely do appreciate having water come out of a faucet when I turn it. I’m glad I don’t have to drive the old Volvo on dirt paths, and I’m really glad I don’t have to burn or bury my trash. If one didn’t pay for those conveniences, that would make them “freeloaders”, wouldn’t it?
Laura , that’s Ellen poster is just an old machine bag. We see that from afar, so, “everybody knows that.” * Don’t waste words or your good time on the baggage. Ever.
Ellen poster name is a non value input for the actual citizen balances. ” Wasted word…….er’s .
Ellen, tell me exactly how the Republicans with super majorities in both houses and the governor’s office are NOT reponsible.
That law has been on the books forever!
They can’t repeal it?
Ghost, I guess you didn’t read what I said about wanting less government in my day-to-day life. You have an idea of what ALL conservatives are and your mind can’t seem to recognize anything that doesn’t fit that mold.
So you hate the concept of government so much you don’t even want it to act to repeal a law you despise?
My Dear E…
Sure, this President is more than free wheeling, how about this Republican mayor who obviously can not balance his own check book…another five year of this deficit spending will result in declines in home values…confused? democrats are digging in to resist deficit spending and republicans, namely the Winnecke gang says, “we can’t be out of money because we still have checks”…you Rep enjoy the gala because the “Four horseman of the apocalypse” are saddling up on Walnut Street… eh ah….
Is it true the editor is doing a “C & P” topic spin claiming a possible previous mayors “executive order”, when in fact the city council approved it? As far as water not being accounted far. Questions would be do the fire fighters put meters on the hydrates used during a fire? Does all of that daily irrigation water along riverside being metered? And when all else fails, lets use that “trump card” and blame those union bosses, they must be stealing that water somehow!
It is true that MD has it going on out there on Harmony Way! I’m sure someone will mention cheating on enrollment somehow. Remember, any high school age student is not bound by school borders anymore.
Why is it true that CCO editor is not repeating that the first 40% of meters were installed not at the expense of the customer, but the last 60% are? Was there close connections to that first 40%ers?
Is it true that first order of business for the Indiana Legislation is appeasing the “marching orders” of the Indiana Chamber of Commerce? This includes the statewide “elected” seat currently held by a Democrat, that had been held by the other party for the past 40 years, to a “political payback” appointment?
Is it true that by allowing Sunday to being just another day of the week for business, somehow magically the government coffers will fill? Is it not true that all that gets done is what would had been spend in six days, now is spread to seven days? It may create more part time jobs, but becomes a burden to the business by the need to be open that extra day? Is there a ROI by spreading the “fixed amount” of customers money over to that seventh day?
Is it not true it is nice to “window shop” on Sundays at the auto dealers lots without being hounded by salesman on commission?
“As far as water not being accounted far. Questions would be do the fire fighters put meters on the hydrates used during a fire?”
If the hydrant is hooked up to the truck the trucks have meters or at least used to. When fire hydrants are used to flush sewers the gallons are estimated using time on an time off plus flow average. Hydrants are also used to balance out the chemicals we put in the water. I used to know how our loss was compared to other water dept. our size an age? Those numbers should be available.
Does all of that daily irrigation water along riverside being metered? Yes there is a meter in sunset park for that. There is even a meter in the drinking water fountains in the parks.
Thanks for the info!
I have seen old forms floating around the fire stations that were used to estimate gallonage used during training evolutions. I don’t know how long ago those were in use, but I don’t remember them being in service since I’ve been on (15 years).
FD training can use a substantial amount of water, thousands of gallons per minute if we’re training on master stream devices. Newer trucks do have digital flow meters which can give tell how many gallons were used during a period of time, but they seem to be a particularly glitchy piece of equipment. All EFD trucks with pumps (as well as our primary water rescue boat) also have the ability to draft from a static body of water, meaning in theory we could suck water out of a lake or river and spray it right back in, thereby reducing our consumption of city water to zero during training evolutions. That is not necessarily practical in all cases, however.
All of that said, I don’t suspect that FD water consumption for training or actual suppression amounts to more than a rounding error as far as overall annual system usage.
Not trying to knock on you bravo, we understand you’re demise. Define the difference at the hydrants, some of that is by design straight shot untreated balance, and we know it. Why would a city or a common fool put treated water on a fire? Especially, when that city sits at the banks of the Ohio river drainage basins large wet and thermodynamically proven fire suppressive balance ? Dumb, and dumber, or is that actually by design?
Psst. You don’t have to treat water to extinguish a fire with it. “Everybody knows that”.
Heck, that element, since the early days when ole troglodyte who’d drank of the grog, and then pee’d on the camp fire, and ruined breakfast for the rest of the tribe’s cooks early attempts at……. “Weiner Wurst, angewendet öffentlich abrechenbaren.”
We put treated water on a fire for a number of reasons, the primary one being that is what is circulating in the hydrants. 🙂
Drafting from an open body of water has it’s own drawbacks, the primary one being access. Not every address in the city limits is close enough to an open body of water to allow easy drafting. ‘Shuttling’ water via tankers from a remote water source is possible, but it is very apparatus and manpower intensive, and to do it really well you need high capacity tankers (2,000 + gallons) which the city FD doesn’t have.
Another access issue involves actually getting to the water source. If you want to draft from a static body of water, you need to be able to bet withing around 30′ of it with your big red truck. Unless the body of water has paved access points or hydrants pre-piped into it, that can be easier said than done.
Again, though, even assuming the EFD uses 1,000 gallons per week for training and another 1,000 for putting out fires (extreme over-estimates, IMO), that hardly shows up on the 25 million gal/day that the city water treatment plant pumps out for use.
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe there are no “untreated” water hydrants that can be taped on for fires. That would require separate piping which this city can not afford! Also the issue of cross contamination of the potable water supply! Out in the county it does require water from any source that is close.
You two check by the source connection points , then convince our overhead data acquisition your balance is correct. We’ve seen otherwise, what’s going on is otherwise of sourcing as stated, its not seeing your stated case with the chromatic spectrometry. That’s deadly accurate testing per observed and listed elemental balances observed through the defined spanning. If not CSO fouled how is that?
EVEN (from) orbit. and at light year ranges, that’s accurate beyond your silly local political speculations, or tilts.
Thanks editor’s for not screwing with that this time.
The reference of the “from” vs “form” thingy! Heck, either works, go ahead, doesn’t change the data.
Is it elemental bleed in from CSO, nope, its source specified as well. The real science only sees the existing numbers friends. doesn’t discriminate anything.
Its a machine, a real one, and its relentless with the undeniable data. Political emotion, is not a factor.
“Citizens are sporting the misapplied bills”, it cares not for the localized pocket push local ole boy machine balances, it does see the end result cost. That’s recordable, as well.
And as we write this continues to download real-time data. This holiday will be messed up again by the expected climate migration incursions. Its what we see, pure data, with climate migration on planet earth. And that will add up to missed landing times and holiday heartache, and, about 3.2 billion dollars to the transportation infrastructure suppliers again this holiday season.
Again welcome to this centuries climate migrations, not that one hasn’t been warned, or cautioned.
Get a damned clue, climate migration is a fact. Period.
We have some viable solutions, its past time those are implemented.
Sincerely V- Team.
Kitchen style northern Vanderburgh county translation from old Indiana farmer = “Weiner Wurst, angewendet öffentlich abrechenbaren = Best case found = “Weiner sausage, applied billable public.”
V
Add 38 years of Industrial Construction in this SW corner of Indiana to that northerner Vanderburgh county farmers resume with many years of leadership!
I recall Sundays were once just for church, visiting, and other leisure. Out here on the farm back then. everyone had livestock that required feeding/milking as that was the only chore done that day.
Is it true that this state’s republican party is a party that preach of “family and church value’s”, but are willing to throw that all under the bus for just another work day for their “Benjamin” god?
Nobody is going to force you to change your Sunday activities, Arm. There is no reason to force your ways on others with outdated “blue laws” either. If you don’t want to shop for a car or buy alcohol on Sundays, just don’t do it. There was a reason cars couldn’t be sold on Sundays decades back, when credit checks on weekends were impossible. That’s no longer true. Liquor store and car dealerships won’t have to stay open on Sundays, either. If it doesn’t prove profitable, most won’t.
As far as land-based gambling goes, I think getting such a license in return for banning smoking is a fair trade. I expect the Governor won’t go along with that, so the legislature will have to have the spine to over-ride a veto on that subject.
I see we have different thoughts on this. Should a person have to choose between working or church on Sunday? Good chance that the person actually only has the option of working, or getting fired? I’m “old school” when it comes to this, for many reasons for it has been instilled into me over the years. Granted that I do choose to do some work on Sunday, but not what is considered “hard” work nowadays, but it is for me at my option. Living out in the county, trips to the city were far and in between. This is easy when one “plans’ ahead instead of allowing impulse to take over!
Used to be some choose to work Sundays due to the double time Benjamin’s compensation. Policy at the work place, as usual gets “somewhat political” when those aspects were tossed in the pile, as well. Good grief the HR policy’s just about changed daily to keep that balanced and inside employment regulatory standards required.
Whew, lots of “huffing and puffin” goes into that unique “teamwork” stuff, but sometimes well balanced leadership can meet some strict timeframes, and needs projections to finish or supply the jobs customer requirements with applied consistency in most cases.
con·sist·en·cy
kənˈsistənsē/Submit
noun
r/. 1. conformity in the application of something, typically that which is necessary for the sake of logic, accuracy, or fairness.
“the grading system is to be streamlined to ensure greater consistency”
synonyms: uniformity, constancy, regularity, evenness, steadiness, stability, equilibrium; More
the achievement of a level of performance that does not vary greatly in quality over time.
“his principal problem in supervision has been consistency” 😉
r/. 2. the way in which a substance, typically a liquid, holds together; thickness or viscosity.
“the local governance has the consistency of Combined Sewers Overflow”
synonyms: thickness, density, viscosity, heaviness, texture;
Sometimes I get nostalgic for the old days, too, Arm. For years, I did work that required that somebody was available 24/7, holidays and all. The least pleasant hours were usually covered by the “junior” employees, and I was glad when I got enough time in to avoid working the “crap shifts”, but never forgot what it was like.
The truth is that we can practice religion pretty easily. Worship services are more convenient to get to for most people these days, and life has just changed. I’m fine with people having the option to do the things they want or need to do at their convenience. I like having that option and think everybody should.
I’m all for Sunday sales of Alcohol. And the people end up paying for the replacement of these water meters in the long run whether they do that up front or later with their tax payments. They city not able to pick money off the trees unless you consider the rate payers the tree. We all end up paying for these new smart meters in the long run. Some might end up paying more than others depending on who gets charged up front for the damages and who get to do without water. There is where the rub lies. And that is where the courts should be used to make sure that everyone is treated fairly. Sort of like the smoking ban that failed to included the Casino. That was not constitutional and it will rule. That’s is how a court should rule if the city unfairly charges some people for the replacement and damages to the pipe and not the others. That’s clearly not going to be fair and any court Justice should rule that way IMHO.
Did you know that if you write a essay and click on the “post comment” button and you are not logged in you lose all your text that you spend time writing? Well that’s what happens.
I recently installed some new security software that evidently clears all my cookies to make my computer run faster. But it also causes me to have to sign into the CCO every time after I run that software. It’s too bad that the text is not saved and you can go back and log in and still not lose the text you spent time writing.
Anyone up for a game of “connect the dots”?
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=53018
Weinzapfel waited all of 3 whole months before joining Faegre Baker Daniels LLP.
http://www.faegrebd.com/Public-and-Municipal-Finance
Give that pen to Ray Charles/Ronny Milsap and see those dots connected!
When this Johnson Controls deal came up for approval, I was baffled why any politician would propose the project, and why the Council would approve it.
Reason: the Johnson Controls meters are not being installed to charge you less, they will charge you more.
Couple that with the CSO rate increases (11 % per year for the next 7 years), so you combine hgher measured usage with much higher per unit rates.
What an incredible lack of forethought for all of the politicians involved, except perhaps the greedy guy who got this done right before he left office, I can’t recall his name.
I believe your last paragraph is correct except for the “lack of forethought”. Your post brings up the point that it will cost the customer more. I’m thinking “they knew” it was going to bring more money into the coffers!
Our social economic environmental analytical group observed some of those numbers during those lunatics maniacal proposals back then , exactly why we chose the test sites and solution bases we have across the Nation. Most of our sites there are closed out for that data run, the ones that are still actively returning data are for further development in customer side values. That’s a “real” smart application base. The customer controls the validity of the savings percentage throughout usage and self driven objectives.
Some locations around the nation have consistently returned numbers ranging through 38%, to even as much as 70% overall cost reductions in “standard or smart” metered cost savings.
The first in reduction point dialed in for the ESWU customers was set at 35% reduction, the unfair county customer tipping point. The equipment easily made those consistently, some have returned 58% usage cost reduction without any supply changes to household supply needs or average gallons use per each person specified. Some additional customer side equipment must be installed, that in design at a minimal cost projection. Best installed by a qualified plumber, however, could be customer installed if the skill set is present and proper tools are available.
The CSO solutions are pretty straight forward combined sewers have to go. We have a excellent plan for that as well.
That’s extremely easy, however fair logistical balance wise is where that gets complex there in Evansville . That should be applied as regional by basin to solve the strategic needs for the entire Ohio river drainage basins Strategic Clean Water supplies. Your Evansville Vanderburgh areas governance, and ongoing mismanaged failures to achieve what is projected as fair customer balance, has simply, driven our need to expand, and hold that plan for its required and now demanded affect in Evansville for the present.
.
Sustainable Climate migration clean water solutions, ( customer based solvable) leaves your local machine ogre out of the mix, customer applied, and balanced. ” It’ll sell itself”.
“Welcome to climate migration.”
My sources indicate that Big Labor was infuriated with most all members on Council except for Weaver and Mosby because they refused to rubber stamp the project and this includes Weinzapfel…when the Fiber Optics and city wide Wi-Fi was eliminated to the chagrin of Mark Ralley, the members on council held their nose and voted for it….never once told that the poor customers would take it in the tail pipe…bravo Ms. Robinson for admitting her regrets for voting for the larceny….and, expect more to come out of Mosby and Weaver concerning big labor in the future…just hang onto your wallets>>>
Johnson Controls: IS IT TRUE, that there were two (2) Bonds Issued to fund the Johnson Controls project.
These two bonds were issued on November 26, 2013 (almost one-year ago exactly):
Series 2013B Sewer Portion of the Project $ 29,255,000
Series 2013C Waterworks Portion of the Project $ 15,500,000 (IURC Cause 44295)
Total Funding: $ 44,755,000. PLEASE NOTE: these bonds were not sold to the public, that shadowy enterprise known as THE EVANSVILLE BOND BANK was the purchaser.
Since the Waterworks 2013A bond issue was assigned a Negative Trend rating on 9-17-2013 by Standard & Poors, does that mean that EWS was precluded from making a public debt offering in the Fall of 2013 ? And that only big brother, EVV Bond Bank, permitted the Johnson Controls deal to proceed when EWS could not make a public bond offering ??
Evansville Bond Bank = Slush Fund (since there is no Cash Balance for this entity on the City’s SBOA 2013 Audit). Please don’t tell me they had $ 44 Million off-the-books available to buy two bond issues and fund this Johnson Controls hot mess !
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ?
Is it true that the board of directors of E Bond Bank are appointed by the Mayor?
is it true that the previous mayor had appointed five?
Is it true the river boat yearly payment goes into the Evansville Bond Bank
Is it true as mention above, $44 million plus of obligation is held to be paid by boat money?
Is it true that the ford center was suppose to tap into that boat money starting 2018?
Is it true that no tax money was to be used on the Ford Center?
Is it true something sounds already tapped out?
Is it true the boat money was originally suppose to be for other items instead of the above items?
Surely you jest ? Evnasville Bond Bank sounds like a “black hole” — money is sucked into it by the gravitational greed, and it only gets released to lubricate pet projects, like slathering the Johnson Controls squad ????
Just who are the E-Bond Bank 5 you refer to ? Same bunch that loaned money to Earthcareless ?
Google: Evansville Bond Bank
Branson from ONB
Christian from Vectren
Gaunt from Hilliard Lyons
Neal from EVSC
Standley from USI
Looks like several machinists on this Board.
Even the so called black holes have specified event horizons, heh, heh, that’s where the real action is. Someday the gravity of the actual entropic universe might become an apparent horizon to those who don’t quite understand that yet. Time is apparent, gravity is as well, the horizon specifies where that goes, next. Next, isn’t time, but its relative, and really fast… and if one must, that’s a choice given…….. 🙂
Evnasville Bond Bank, brownsfield corp. ERC how many shadow groups are there to funnel money to favored ones?
http://www.perivision.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/divide-by-zero.jpg
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