IS IT TRUE November 12, 2014

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IS IT TRUE we encourage you to vote in our “Readers Poll”?

IS IT TRUE one of Evansville’s true citizen servants has taken up the charge in trying to lead an effort to get greater Evansville off of the “Most Miserable” places list comprised annually by the Gallup Organization?…Linda White, longtime CEO of Deaconess and a hardworking member of the community for good is working hard to correct this perception with students at both USI and UE?…this is a very admirable goal and getting some of these students to graduate with a positive attitude toward Evansville may yield dividends in this annual survey in the long term?…for the short term one must understand what makes up this survey to truly target the abysmal ratings and inspiring students will not likely have much impact?…this survey is a result of some statistically significant calling sample into the metro area asking questions about health and wealth?…without regard to what students may think, when the phone rings in a random household asking questions about height and weight to determine the obesity rate for Evansville unless the general populace has lost enough weight to not be considered clinically obese that number will not change?…the same goes when that question about smoking finds that 30%+ of the population are still regular users of tobacco products?…finally when the questions about job satisfaction and health insurance do not change from “bad and no” to “good and yes” the statistics will not change and Evansville will remain among the bottom dwellers in well being?…what Evansville could use is about 1,000 Linda Whites to take up this charge with at least 30 of them holding elected offices?

IS IT TRUE if the Evansville City Council wants to do something to help Ms. White in her effort to move us up in the Well Being rankings there is one thing that they have failed miserably at that they alone can correct?…the City of Evansville simply needs to put a comprehensive smoking ban in place like Vanderburgh County has and how nearly every city in the United States has done?…they tried to half-arse one and it was turned over on grounds of being unconstitutional?…we all know why and we all have come to understand that “boat money” is just an excuse used by the City Council to avoid doing what they all know will have positive impact on public health?…even Mayor Winnecke, who as instrumental in the County’s smoking ban and who pledged to “twist some arms” to pass one in the City has gone mute on the subject out of fear of losing a little “boat money”?…it is a sad state of affairs when an elected body and its chief executive choose  money over public health?

IS IT TRUE the CCO took a little heat for paying Mayor Winnecke a complement yesterday on doing the right thing regarding the asinine letter that Mike Duckworth and Allen Mounts sent to over 1,000 of our citizens regarding the Johnson Controls fiasco?…we stand by the praise we lavished upon Mayor Winnecke for doing the right thing?…we do however question his dissatisfaction with just the “tone” of the letter?…it is the content of this letter that has earned the City of Evansville Water and Sewer Utility a demerit and hopefully a public embarrassment?…tone is just tone and it does tell you something about a person but it is bad content that stings a person’s pocket?…reprimands all around are due for both tone and content?

IS IT TRUE Jonathan Gruber is an MIT economist who helped design Obamacare?…After the law passed he consulted with numerous states concerning the establishment of their exchanges?…in January of 2012 Gruber said “What’s important to remember politically about this is if you’re a state and you don’t set up an exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits?”…now this situation of state vs. “the State” is before the Supreme Court and Gruber was giving voice to the real reason Obamacare restricted subsidies only to the states that established exchanges?…the Obama administration and their Democratic allies in the Senate assumed the inducement of the subsidies would be sufficient to get all, or most all, of the states to establish exchanges but They were wrong?… now they’re trying to rewrite the law to obscure and preserve their fatal error of judgment?…the other piece to this case and it will be part of the evidence is that Gruber was caught on camera boasting about how the ACA was intentionally written to trick “the stupid American voter” into silent acceptance?…the exact quote is as follows?

“This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure the CBO did not score the mandate as taxes,” said Gruber. “Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. Call it the stupidity of the America voter, or whatever.”

IS IT TRUE it seems as though the Obama Administration was successful in tricking “the stupid American voters” to get their way?…they know it, they did it on purpose and now the architect of the plan is boasting about pulling the wool over the eyes of the “stupid” electorate?…What is at stake in King v. Burwell is nothing less than preserving the constitutional doctrine of Separation of Powers?…the Obama administration will soon urge the Court to enable it to deem the plain language of a statute passed by Congress to mean what it does not say?…that is a precedent that should send a chill down the spine of all Americans whether they are from the “stupid” masses or from the group that saw this intentional smoke and mirrors show for what it was from day one?…it will be most interesting to see if there is any consequence at all for fraudulent behavior and intentionally taking advantage of “stupid” voters on the part of our own government?…if such a thing happened in a civil court among citizens or if an American company did such a thing to a consumer there would be a serious consequence of money, negation, or even jail?

IS IT TRUE we invite our readers to watch this video to learn just what the architect of Obamacare thinks about the collective intelligence of the American public?…if this does not make one mad enough to start thinking before voting this guy just may be correct?

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84 COMMENTS

  1. This experiment(ACA) of Lies and Deceit, (“You can keep your Doctor!”), crafted exclusively by the Democrats, has given the Liberal Agenda a resounding defeat that will set their Socialist goals back for quite sometime to come.
    Apparently, the Voters are not quite as Stupid,– as the Democrats– (per Gruber’s revelation)– think they are.

    • I really don’t think anyone wants to give up the benefits that have come with ACA, things like covered pre-existing conditions and keeping children on the parents insurance until age 26. I think the current brouhaha is the proper lead-in to what should have been done in the first place, Medicare for All.

      • Thanks to ACA, my pre-existing insurance went from $1000 per month with a $500 deductible, to $700 per month and a $3650 deductible. I just got my increase notice for 2015,,,,,$850 per month with the same $3650 deductible,,,,by 2016 I expect $1000 per month and the $3650 deductible.

        I guess if I was stupid I would think that’s a good deal.

        • country. First hand evidence is always best. Unfortunately, those who continue to believe the dem propaganda usually disregard evidence.

        • I’m in the same boat. I have to pay double to keep the same plan I’ve had for years. If I were single and young I could do the cheapo plan but having a spouse and not wanting to have a $5000 deductible really takes a chunk of change. It’s great having 45% of my paycheck gone before I get it.

      • I am sorry but these are dubious benefits. They help a small percentage of people but harm everybody else. Literally every middleclass person I have talked to has had there insurance premium go up thousands while there deductible has increased to thousands also. I got a surprise $4000 plus bill this year because I had not met my deductible. In my entire life even including raising to familys have I had a bill like that. Most of my friends have had the same experience.

        • With all due respect, how ACA was born from partisan deception and contempt for the rule of law and the intelligence of the American people is not news.

          Anybody with any wisdom whatsoever knew that any law that “needs to be passed to see whats in it” is a con. “If it sounds to good to be true it probably is”

          I actually agree with the concept but also understand human nature.

        • Two of our locals were key players, Brad Ellsworth and Evan Bayh. Evan Bayh was smart enough to get out of the state. Brad simply got punked out, the liberals awed and rolled him over. Hilliary voted for it, think this improves on her chances for president?

      • LKB
        In the words of Dan Aykroyd, “elkaybee, you ignorant slut…” What do you not understand about Gruber’s comments and the intention of the president, Nancy Pelosi, and all democrats. Sign and pass this bill, you do not need to read it, just pass it. Then to have the Supreme Court ratify it is simply not right. This is a tax, plain and simple and as such would not have passed, even by the democrats. The CPA’s and accountants of the US are now going to be the bad guys in all of this since the onus has been placed on them to self report those violators of the law, as defined by regulations written after the passing of the bill. I have yet to speak to a health insurance representative who understands the law or the penalties (tax) to be assessed. This penalty (tax) is reported on your tax return, therefore it is a tax. Gruber, in his own words, stated that we are going to have the healthy support those who are not. Another give away by our government. What has happened ?? Lincoln stated: ” government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth “. Well guess what, it has perished from this earth !!!! Bring on another executive order because this dumbass POTUS knows best.

      • What should have been done is to stop making one’s employer one’s health insurance provider and create a free market across state lines with Medicare as a safety net for those who fall through the cracks. Medicare is not free. I have said from the beginning that moving health insurance from the company store to the government store is not a good solution, and you know that I am always right. So are you. 🙂

    • Gruber is the same fellow who put together Massachusetts’ healthcare reform act that was passed under Mitt Romney’s Governorship.

      Gruber is a Cass Sunstein clone.

      salon.com
      Jan. 15, 2010

      [Consider the recent revelation that the Obama administration has been making very large, undisclosed payments to MIT Professor Jonathan Gruber to provide consultation on the President’s health care plan. With this lucrative arrangement in place, Gruber spent the entire year offering public justifications for Obama’s health care plan, typically without disclosing these payments, and far worse, was repeatedly held out by the White House — falsely — as an “independent” or “objective” authority. Obama allies in the media constantly cited Gruber’s analysis to support their defenses of the President’s plan, and the White House, in turn, then cited those media reports as proof that their plan would succeed. This created an infinite “feedback loop” in favor of Obama’s health care plan which — unbeknownst to the public — was all being generated by someone who was receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in secret from the administration (read this to see exactly how it worked).]

      To the Sunsteins and Grubers of the world, the end always justifies the means.

      _

  2. Is it not true that city of Evansville lie within the borders of the county of Vanderburgh?
    Is it not true that Vanderburgh County has a smoking ban?
    Is it not true there is a “duplicated” government not allowing the county ban to be implement within it’s borders?
    Is it true to say that going along the lines of 50% of the IIT today, that “stupid Evansville voters” allows city government to dupe them? Not allowing the county ban within its border is one of many examples that city government needs to change how they govern?

    Please note that all residents of the city of Evansville are “good fellow” county voting residents which we prove every two years at the polls. I was just going along the “intent” of the IIT theme!

    • Logically one would think that a County Ban(law) would be just that,– a County Ban(law).–Should the County Sheriff, whose authority IS County wide enforce this County Law across the Entire County ?–or not? What authority prevails here?—seems obvious to me, smoking in public places in Evansville, a city within the County, is simply a violation of the existing law.

    • You make an excellent point, Arm. Maybe the anti-smoking organization needs to sue the Sheriff to have him to enforce the law. In the meantime, it makes no sense for Tropicana to try to kill their customers off prematurely. I would think they would want people to spend their money on gambling instead of medical bills.

      • It’s probably a good bet that many casino patrons are not the ones paying their own medical bills anyway.

        • You are spot on. I haven’t been to the casino in years but used to have to go as part of my job. The casino for the most part actively works to pull in seniors. They refer to them as the 3rd of the month crew and provide incentives to pull them in. I would venture that 90% of casino patrons are on Medicare/Medicaid. I think the short time that Evansville had a smoking ban was effective and few places have returned to smoking. I also think it’s shortsighted to think that 30% of the population being smokers has anything to do with misery. Smokers have absolutely no effect on my happiness. The Johnson Control deal, an unwanted Fraud Center, Earthscram and other foolishness at the expense of the general welfare of our city is a real misery index item. Our city is crumbling, now that’s a misery issue.

  3. Re: Linda White’s efforts to ” change the perceptions” of UE/USI students:

    This sounds bizarre. Is she going to “better explain” the questions ? Brainwash them to think things are better than they really are ? Health, wealth, job satisfaction, health insurance and tobacco use were mentioned.

    I don’t see how one can create a positive attitude in these smart kids unless they change the REALITY of the situation. You can try to bullshit them by convincing them that your perception should be their perception, but that will go a very short way.

    If Ms. White wants to be a difference maker, she should pick one of the five things above, take charge, and start rolling out community-wide initiatives to change the REALITY of that topic , not the perception.

    • + 1. It’s time to change the reality. Linda is a great lady. With her background in health care, the Smoking initiative would be a natural for her. Team her up with Dr. Adams and others to go after that one point.

      I believe we are beholden to the Casino for $ 12 MIllion of bribes per year ? Find a way to ween off that teat and let’s go City-Wide no smoking. Now that’s something the UE/USI kids will like, especially if they stick around for a career.

    • You’re right, if just changing perception is really what Ms. White is talking about. My understanding is that she is working to change the reality AND spread awareness that the fact has changed. I would hope that various groups will take on working to improve different parts of our “misery quotient”. Maybe the Rotary club will devote the $100,000 they pledged to the un-needed Roberts park to helping to make Evansville a better place to live.

  4. Smart City Meters:

    Several posters have commented on the fact that 16,000 meters–previously deleted from the Johnson Controls project to pass IURC muster by eliminating $ 1 Million in cost– have now been added back. These were meters less than 5 years old, perfectly good, no reason to replace.

    With all of the Budget Drama and Friend’s $ 5 Million reduction demands, plus the revelation that we will still lose cash in the next fiscal year, shouldn’t the City Council be JUMPING ALL OVER THIS ? Demanding that the project be scaled back to its original scope ?

    The project was supposed to be finished in February 2015. C&P is now reporting a November 2015 completion.
    Come on City Council, get off your ass and chop those 16,000 meters back. Save $ 1 Million in low hanging fruit and help out the already-behind timeline. Remember: if they’re less than 5 years old, and have a 10 or 20 year warranty, silly to replace them now !

    • The water dept. had a crew that changed 10% a year until at least 2010. It was in the performance contract when they had the private company. As I have said in the past the meters were change over in the 80s an again in the 90s. there should be no ancient meters in the system. The large meter program was suspended in early 2000 so they probably did need replacing. But that was from neglect of testing an maintenance.

  5. Kudos to Linda White. I have had dealings with her, through advocating for patients, that make me a big fan of hers. While I agree with CCO that the “miseries” we suffer from in Evansville won’t be erased quickly, I’m sure she and our local Universities will come up with a more substantive solution than bright T-shirts and a Chicken Fat video

  6. Just a question here. Maybe somebody remembers. Wasn’t part of the sales pitch for the smart meters that they would pay for themselves, including the installation costs, with what they saved the city in unaccounted for water fees over a period of time? If so, why now all the finagling over charging property owners for the installation?

    • Yes, you are right, Priority.

      The sales pitch was/is that the current meters are not accurate enough. These new meters only increase the average accuracy by .008. I believe Stephanie on City Council said that the RESIDENTIAL meters are just a break-even proposition, the real savings comes from the Commercial meters.

      If Steph is right, then why in the hell install the RESIDENTIAL ? Just do the Commercial meters.

      Last, Johnson Controls provided some kind of ‘Guaranteed Savings’ assurance. Since they guaranteed the savings, why can’t the City pay for these residential pipes, and send the bill to Johnson Controls, who “guaranteed” we’d break even on Residential ? Why make our fellow human beings grovel before public aid agencies to pay a plumbing bill ?

      • Thanks for the details! I had not heard half of what you provided. If it’s all true, something has seriously gone astray.

        • Priority, go see for yourself. IURC Website, Case # 44295. Look for the ‘Case in Chief’ and the ‘Joint Petition’. Happy reading !

  7. Gruber was interviewed yesterday and made it clear he regrets making those true comments (the one about the American voter being stupid is particularly true) and soon realized they would be used to attack the ACA. He said he ‘misspoke’, and the comments were made off the cuff at an academic conference. He said the case the Supreme Court just took is based on a ‘typo’.

    “Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. Call it the stupidity of the America voter, or whatever.” – Gruber. Now who in the hell can find anything wrong with that statement?

    The video being flogged by the far right Obama haters is old, I like the new one better: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jonathan-gruber-to-msnbc-my-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-remark-was-inappropriate/

    ↪︎Gruber is all for the ACA↩︎

    It was unconscionable for the US to continue being one of the few developed countries that didn’t have some form of health care insurance available to everyone. Obama fixed that. Hillary will fix the rest of it. Tighten those seat belts, you deadbeat fatties, you free riders, single payer is in sight. Time to back that Bekins van up to the ER and cart your personal La-Z-Boys outta there.

    Gruber is currently making the rounds defending the ACA. You’d never know it by the tainted slant the anti-ACAers are putting out to try to hang their hats on.

    • Thanks for the link. Gruber was on “Morning Joe” and answered questions from a bipartisan panel. I don’t think video of that is available yet, but it is worth watching when it is, by the few people who want to take a reasonable view of Obamacare. I find it so strange that the Obama haters all have such terrible experiences with ACA insurance, yet so many others have been so happy to have their lives saved and/or made better.
      It is time for the US to join the rest of the civilized world and take care of the health of its citizens. It’s going to happen, and SCOTUS may point the way to single payer health insurance.
      .

      • The screamers have staked out their positions and will impeach Obama, assuring a big switcheroo in the congress in 2016. Boehner has never been able to control his caucus and the one he’ll be dealing with after the first of the year will be even worse than the last. An embarrassment to America. For all Mitch’s bluster and threats he doesn’t have anybody to sign the crap he plans on passing. The seeds of another couple of years of intractable gridlock were sown with the last election, it will be to the Democrat’s benefit.

        I’m perfectly happy with my insurance. The ACA, while probably needing some tweaks, was long overdue. When the Republicans had total control of the process, both houses and the presidency, they did nothing to address the broken health care system. Now I understand they’ve chosen the lying little puke Marco Rubio and the Eddie Munster-like Paul Ryan to whip something up they can point to when they start bleating ‘repeal and replace’ again.

        • I think the wave the Republicans enjoyed will be their undoing. Impeachment will not go over well, and if millions of people lose the health insurance they now have, that’s one they can’t overcome. I don’t think the veto of the repeal of ACA will be over-ridden, but crazy things happen in Washington.

    • Thanks for the link. He is sorry he told the truth and that it has come back to make him look like a pompous ass. The fact remains that Gruber told the truth last year. That said, I am of the opinion that the ACA needs to be adjusted continually until it does what a few of the euro plans do. Thus far ACA does not cover everyone, increased the price of insurance, and really did throw millions of people off of their plans and away from their doctors. ACA is a great idea that was implemented about as well as the Johnson Controls deal was in Evansville. It can work. I have my doubts as to whether or not our government will make it work.

      • Editor. This type of program may have had merit had it eliminated Medicaid . It didn’t. In fact Medicaid has been expanded, in addition to Obamacare. Under Obamacare (insurance for all) Medicaid should be unnecessary.
        Gruber IS a pompous ass. I can’t imagine any thinking person buying his phony contriteness now.

      • You’re welcome.
        Gruber told the truth yesterday and today too, whether you want to paint him as a pompous ass or not depends on which side of the health care reform issue you’re on. I’m glad to see him out explaining some fairly innocouous (but old and admittedly true) words that were enlisted as a shillelagh by politicans predisposed to try to damage any initiative Obama puts forth. What Gruber is doing now shows courage. He actually seems rather humble while making his case for the ACA.

        The ACA had a rough start in part because it was under constant sniping from the Republicans from the outset. It would not be hard to make a case that they are generally against everything Obama has proposed. The ACA is working. Assuming it survives a gutting by the very partisan Supreme Court it will continue to work. They could even end up deeming it a person. It will get better as it is amended, the longer it is in effect the better it’ll get. It was not designed to cover everyone regardless of any misstatement Obama made to the contrary. It has increased the price of insurance for some and decreased it for others. Others, like me, have seen no real change in coverage or price. Many who were thrown off their plans had inferior policies that were pretty much meaningless. The tossing might be a big plus for them, they just don’t know it yet. The ACA has other laudable features such as letting children stay on their parent’s policy until age 26 and disallowing denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions.

        It is a very one sided editorial, as opinion pieces by their nature generally are. Most of your readers would not know Gruber is very much for the ACA, as are many others when the questions are properly framed.

        • Actually his candid statement about the stupidity of the voters painted him as a pompous ass regardless of which side of the ACA one is on. I don’t imagine that is the first time he has been called that. I am glad that he is out doing his explanation tour and hope it is really his words. My wife works for Tenet Healthcare so I am on her policy. We saw no changes last year but lots of people did. I coach 22 companies in California which did a very good job of setting up an exchange. What I have seen is that people over 50 have seen their premiums drop in nearly every case and those below 35 have seen them rise. I have kept two of my children on my policy and the cost to me is about $130 per month to do so. It is well worth it.

          On the so-called “worthless” plans when I started my first company in 1989, all we could afford was a high deductible plan that would have been tossed out now. My youngest child was diagnosed with leukemia and had a bone marrow transplant. The bill was about $700,000 and the “worthless” plan paid for all but the $10,000 deductible which the hospital was easy to work with on. The “worthless” plan saved my financial life. It was of course not of much use for day to day things like colds and scrapes but I knew that going in. Deeming a plan to be “worthless” because it does not conform to some government minimum makes about as much sense as deeming a tent to be useless as shelter. A tent is better than sleeping under a bridge. Everyone can’t afford what is available in the exchanges even with the subsidies.

          • Depends on the tent and depends on the bridge. Location, location, location.

            Re: the pompous ass. Gruber’s no Kardashian. When he made his original statement, a fairly true assessment of the American voter, he was talking to colleagues. Many people are overly candid in such circumstances and it bites them later. Romney did the same thing when he made his 47% comment. He was in a gathering of folks he felt comfortable telling what he really thought. As ‘explanation tours’ go this one won’t be much because the underlying thing in need of clarification isn’t much.

            Many people with high deductible plans can’t meet the deductible under any circumstances. They get sick, go bankrupt, and we eventually make up what the doctors and hospitals claim to have lost. As you said, you knew going in that a high deductible policy wasn’t much good unless something catastrophic happened. It was a good move by you to have it. It worked out well for you, for most people a plan like that wouldn’t be of much use. They would be at the mercy of a hospital working with them to make ‘arrangements’ (which might or might not happen). I am glad your child could get the treatment he needed. The government decreed threshold for a plan not being acceptable is necessary and should be a facet of the ACA that is subject to change. The government, however negative that word is in some quarters, would seem to be the most suitable body to make that call.

            The subsidies are, generally, tax breaks. Gifts like those are usually only called subsidies when the disadvantaged get them. I agree there are many people who can’t afford insurance even with the maximum credit they are eligible for. Our economic system will generate a certain number of those folks.

            • I have considered the mortgage interest deduction to be subsidized banking for many years. I have taken that deduction when I was poor and when I was in the devilish 1%. I took the deduction because it was legal to do so according to our lawmakers. The tax breaks for ACA in my book are the same. Tax breaks are government subsidies whether for the poor or the rich and should be called for what they are. I also don’t think that donations to religious organizations should be deductible and that one gets me lots of grief too. Government needs a certain amount of money to operate. One guys tax break is another guys increased tax.

          • Need to do a IIT on:
            “Government needs a certain amount of money to operate”
            “one guys tax break, another guys tax increase”

          • I like your ideas on deductions, I would prefer none. No deductions, everyone pays a % of the total income. No dependent deduction, why pay for people to have extra children then use tax dollars to pay to kill them via abortions. Business expenses excluded.

            • That would be the simplest easiest and fairest tax system possible. I support the 3 line tax form. Line 1 is how much did you make. Line 2 is multiply by the agreed upon tax rate to calculate the tax. Line 3 is for your signature.

        • “The ACA had a rough start in part because it was under constant sniping from the Republicans from the outset. It would not be hard to make a case that they are generally against everything Obama has proposed.” Bandana

          When a farce is set up and prominently displayed it becomes a target of derision that it so evidently has deserved.

          Your continuing effort to put lipstick on a pig is embarrassing to watch.

      • Damn, I’d always sort of thought I was a slut of at least average intelligence. I guess not.

      • Wow, if this is worse than what he/she called me earlier, I’m sorry I missed it!

        • LKB
          it was the same comment 🙂 Dan A said it, I just was citing a quote… so much for free speech
          🙂

          • Free speech are not. I call that “bar trash talk”! It’s not needed here! I’m “pissed” that a moderator had not taken that 10:38 am “name calling garbage” post down from you!

    • No chance for Hillary, she’s lost it, some sort of brain damage there. We might get a twofer in Elizabeth Warren, first women and native American. The aca effective accomplished destroying the best health system in the world so we could put 8 million people on welfare/Medicaid. So I guess you could say we really have a single pay system. I think the recent elections will pull us back from the brink of the dark ages. The republicans simple out maneuvered the liberals during this election. The liberals were so busy doing CYA that they couldn’t produce credible campaigns. I hope the republicans don’t attempt to impeach Obama, it would not benefit anyone. Obama is now an object of pity, way over his head, laughing stock of world leaders, it would be unbecoming of the republican eagles to attack a butterfly. Let Obama be a lesson for all, arrogance almost always leads to humiliation.

  8. Most guilty people do regret getting caught. So much for being the most transparent administration.

  9. Linda White’s effort is a crack of light in the gloomy pall over Evansville.

    If our leaders actually sat down with the casino would they really not come on board for a smoking ban?

    • Any leverage we ever had with them is pretty much gone. We had a little window early on to get our relationship with them to show some sort of parity. Our dependence has caulked that window shut. If the negotiations took a turn for the serious they’d simply cue the creaky recording of an anchor being weighed. The city’s bargaining team would fall over themselves finding new ways to say ‘just kidding, can I light your cigar’?

    • The only way I could see that as a possibility would be if their land-based gaming license depended on it.

  10. Who cares , that is between him and his wife and their God if they believe ,,,sorry if I’m sounding mean but that is their own personal life

    • I’m with you. I don’t care about what they do on their own time, as long as it only involves consenting adults. Leave kids and animals out of it, and it’s their business.

  11. mayor winnecke is the best mayor since mayor vandeveer…..now the next thing winnecke has to do is take a page from vandeveer and throw out the deadbeat political trash…………..

  13. I am all for the no smoking ban for the entire city and county. Smoking kills people and should be banned inside any establishment inside the entire county including the entire city limits. People who smoke are hooked on nicotine and need to be unhooked as soon as humanely possible. They don’t really have control of their bodies anymore. The crooks who run the Tobacco Companies should be in jail. Those who still smoke need help kicking that awful habit.

  14. On the same logic- let’s make anything with 20% fat a crime to consume with fines to the city. For the health of these helpless fools. We aren’t smart enough to make our own decisions. We would also be healthier if we were required to walk instead if drive. Let’s make laws to force a healthier society! Are you sheep really this complacent?!?!?

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