IS IT TRUE October 17, 2014

1. Good article on ECHO and the ERC yesterday CCO!

2. what will the Evansville deficit be if no one reins in mayor McClintock?

3. Is It True that the federal debt story was in Thursday C&P?

   Public debt at $12.8 Trillion( 48% foreign owed), Intragovernment debt at $5trillion, for a total of $17.8 trillion debt?

   Trade deficit running at $480-500 billion a year? Years of trade deficit creates the rise of national debt?

   Is it True that the “unfunded obligations” is at $62 trillion?

4. “Deficits don’t matter” – Dick Cheney

   The financial disaster created during the Bush presidency was going to take a while to clean up. More tax cuts for billionaires would have only prolonged it.

5. Fire the republican dominated IURC. Although I’m sure morons like Brandon M are somehow associating Vectren’s thievery with Obama.

   • Oh Ghostie, I see your feelings are till bruised because I called you out for what you really are yesterday.. A mindless ranting fool trolling on the internet and spewing useless venom towards everything and everyone. That is what happens to those with no goals to achieve and no successes to speak of in life. You sit in your anonymous screen name and cast stones, because you are too scared to speak out in front of anyone. Why is that? Could it be you have low self esteem and are embarrassed about your radical views? So throw your insults out at me and others who know better, I know better than to care what a lowlife like you says.

     Oh and I have never made a comment associating or comparing Vectren and Oba Mao, so continue on making sh*t up.

     • Comparing Obama to Mao…… real intelligent, yeah. Get ready for 8 more years of sour grapes, Brandon. Hillary is coming.

6. Estimating water, electric and gas happens all over the country. Some companies will send a monthly reader out if you request it.

7. Can Vectren do anything right?

   • They’re highly successful at obtaining rate increases.

8. It used to be hard to believe that a person would get a utility bill and not verify it’s accuracy by simply checking their meters. I think it even states on the bill that the usage is estimated, doesn’t it? And, unless the law has changed, you aren’t required to pay an estimated bill, correct? Lazy cosumers?

   And, as a natural part of the article, why were the meters not read? Meter reading costs are part of the monthly service charge, so is Vectren adjusting the fee to reflect the service charged for but not delivered? Dishonest utility?

   • That’s true, these customers should not be “obligated” to pay the fee of reading the meter that was not done.

   • Here’s another trick Vectren used to squeeze more money out of its customers: In the course of adjusting their meter-reading schedules, my June meter-reading interval was 36 days, rather than the historic 28-34 days. Consequently, the fixed-base service charges for both my gas and electric were “pro-rated” 20% higher. Vectren blamed the extended meter-reading interval on the same “routing and schedule adjustments” described in the article above. It didn’t matter that we’ll still receive 12 energy bills per year–Vectren “pro-rated” themselves a 20% bonus on both their gas and electric service charges! True, for my household the difference was only about $4.40, but think of how many households in Southern Indiana they can do this to, and those extra dollars add up to a princely sum. And I’m sure I’ll never see a pro-rated service charge for a meter-read interval of 24 days or less–the monopoly will flog their meter readers to ensure that the intervals are greater than 25 days.
     Of course, the “Customer Service Specialists” at Vectren refused to adjust my bill to remove their bonus.

     By the way, notice that the decoupled “Distribution and Service Charges” for gas service consists of a fixed base charge (about $11.00), plus a variable charge of $0.24 for each ccf (hundred cubic feet) of gas metered into your home. So although Vectren’s supposed to pass the cost of the gas to the customer at their cost, they make it up in the “Distribution and Service Charges”. What was a gas cost of $0.56 /ccf to Vectren, is actually $0.80 / ccf to the customer. You’re welcome to do the math from the breakdowns on your gas & electric bills.

     We, the consumers, must scrutinize every rate case Vectren presents to the IURC and oppose each when necessary, to ensure we are paying a fair price for our energy. Obviously, in a monopoly environment, competition cannot keep prices down.

     That said, though, I commend the Vectren repair crews and support staff for the work they do to restore our service when we need it, usually under the most miserable conditions . You ladies & gentlemen know who you are, and you are appreciated!

     • Had pitched all past billings so I can not go back to look. Did however got caught in another little trick that was opposite of your dealings month or two ago. I have for years, always had the 13th as a due date. Normally don’t bother to open the billing until the 6th-8th of the month. Well they “short month” me and I was already in “past due” when I opened the billing!

       • You can look up to a years past bills on vectrens site in pdf format. If there is a ‘*’ by your amount owed, the bill was estimated.

   • I would be willing to wager that sufficient meter readers were figured into Vectren’ s budget. Any takers?

     If they are going to estimate bills, at least they could switch neighborhoods monthly.

     • Vectren has only one or two meter readers still on the payroll, if that many. They contract it out, and during this time period changed suppliers. The contract meter readers make minimum wage and change often. The people in the call center say they can tell when there is a new meter reader. In the old days the meter readers who hustled could read their book in about 3/4s of a day which allowed for catch up time during stormy weather or holidays. They rarely estimated meter readings 25 years ago

       • The readers are paid $o.XX by the meter read and a weak trip charge for fuel expense since the readers use their personal vehicle. I believe he new company is AccuRead. They brought a group of readers from MI to help catch up from the transition issues this month.

9. One can understand estimating bills when extreme weather does not allow the meter people to make their routes.
   We should not except the fact for one, it was not weather related, the only legitimate excuse! They claim they were in the process of switching metering services and changing the readers routes! Wondering if the burden and pain on these customers estimated bills, is worth the few pennies for the stock holders and Vectrens CEO’s!
   Then again, these type of business has no conscious even though they are declared “people” by the form of government that wears “robes”!

   • Vectren isn’t your worse case pocket pick in Vanderburgh, by national delivery standards its not near the best, either. The ESWU is the worse case, and that’s heavy on pick with the county service customers.
     Not to worry, developing technology (not the Johnson controls meters they are installing) will give the customer some options in equipment as a property owner or manager soon.
     The systems are currently being calibrated on the confidential test sites to exceed the original set points. We’ve repeated the strenuous testing and modifications on those with documented relability. That was a 36-38% range of savings on metered supply usage with the equipment installed and operated automatically. The new incremental objective undergoing developmental testing now has the watermark set point to achieve 55% more efficient usage while every daily household need standard is being met and maintained. We had some modeling onsite in northern Texas come in the other day at a repeatable 56.5 % less usage in supplied meter dailies. The top we’ve recorded during the most extensive spanning on that site was 57.3 % rounded into a mean value. Using the Evansville utilities increased rate charge for the same old archaic services and infrastructure failures was the teams objectively derived model benefit driver for the development of some customer based yet affordable devices to not only conserve the nations clean water balances, but lower the cost due the customers as a competitive advantage goal as well. The pre-conditional, set and applied rate increases you have been whacked with, actually drove our calibration points by model as a national standard for the prototype modeling. Those objectives, as why such a privately purchased system in conjunction with the public utilities supply source can actually have viability in todays changing global climate migrations. “Anyplace” inside the protective shell of the planets atmosphere. Real science, real change, for real climate change solutions.

     Such daily drivers like yours there and this below, along with the situational aspect range on utility services, by availability per region, such as the differences in the Evansville vs Vanderburgh ESWU bills tipping point balances, only, focus us more.

     http://www.news10.net/story/news/local/sacramento/2014/10/17/noaa-weather-winter-drought/17401175/

     • The hell you say !

   • If a meter is not on a readers route, they can not add it in on their handheld. If a meter (1) is on the other side of town in the middle of a route, the reader can type in correction and skip. There is currently one person assigned to handle all reader complaints and route corrections related to vectren territory.

10. The deficit is like rate at which one is filling a swimming pool in which one is drowning. Filling is 2/3 slower is great, but it is not enough and can change in a moment if there is another economic storm. We must make drastic changes in the source of the deficit, and the largest item is health and human services.

    • Indiana-Enoch, you want to do your part, right? And you are really serious about the deficit reduction, right? (Cause I don’t think you are.) We could eliminate public subsidizing through special tax treatment of churches and religious groups. That would be fair and go great lengths to eliminate deficits.

      • Good idea. Churches suck up a ton of public resources and don’t pay a dime. Get them off the public teat.

        • Exactly. What’s a church, verses a religious corporation. That croosroad doobie on the I-69 pathway looks darn corporate, from orbit.

          We’d like to balance that environmental footprint due you’re infrastructure needs as a metro community, as well. Incrementally its in “largesse”

          Of course its positioned for attainable growth by its strategically and logistically balanced location, gee a “medical campus” within say a 1/2 mile or so would be kind of cool for that as well as the “largesse medical footprints” spanning in all usable directions along that churches northern property line………….. already.

          Généralement, les grandes empreintes sont laissées par de grands pieds
          lar·gesse
          lärˈjes,lärˈZHes/
          noun
          generosity in bestowing money or gifts upon others.
          “dispensing his money with such largesse”
          synonyms: generosity, liberality, munificence, bounty, bountifulness, beneficence, altruism, charity, philanthropy, magnanimity, benevolence, charitableness, openhandedness, kindness, big-heartedness; formal benefaction
          “Bob took advantage of his friend’s largesse”
          antonyms: stinginess
          money or gifts given generously.
          “the distribution of largesse to the local population”
          synonyms: gifts, presents, handouts, grants, aid; More

          https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9708327,-87.4471478,402m/data=!3m1!1e3

        • Tax the Churches. This is way overdue. Many of them are so political they should lose their exemptions anyway. Years of suckling the public teat have made them feel entitled. Let them do all their self-trumpeted ‘good’ out of the goodness of their hearts. What should be their tax burden is paid by good citizens who have no choice.

        • Of course you only mean white churches. Don’t touch the African American churches because they are political arms of the democrat party. I’m not opposed to getting churches off the 501c3 welfare tax grabbing line. Let’s do away with all 501c3 tax exempt organizations.

      • I actually agree on this one. The churches and regious groups would no longer be stifling their free speech and religious freedoms for the sake of tax exemptions. Doing away with all tax exemptions would help not only religious groups, but also free anti-Christian groups like the ACLU to be more forthright in proclaiming their prejudices against Christians and the Constitution as it was intended by it’s framers.

        Those donating because of their beliefs would continue to do so and those trying to avoid paying taxes would have to ante up their fair share. Real charities, medical research, veteran and children support groups might take a hit, as well as art and education supported by philanthropies, but it would be worth it to free all groups from their politically mandated gags.

        • Kindly look up the numerous cases in which the ACLU has defended christians and report back. “The constitution as it was intended by its framers” haha what a crock of shit! You mean what YOU think was intended.

          • Read the Federalist Papers, Ghost of the Murderer, and enlighten yourself. Don’t stay in the darkness of ignorance or your parents’ basement any longer.

        • I must admit that I have long supported the elimination of all tax deductions. Doing so eliminates complexity and institutionalized cronyism in one fell swoop. Imagine a taxation system that is as simple as a single percentage of earnings without the burden of accounting for deductions. The tax rate would be lower than it is now too. I can support that.

          • I favor going that direction but maintaining the current separate tax rates. The more you make, the higher the percentage to “tithe” the government.

            This can be done in “baby steps” starting by eliminating that “cheap” capitol gains tax rate and reclassify it as “earned” income at the rate it should be!

          • I fully agree, a straight 10-15%, no deductions, post card size tax form. If you want kids, no deductions, you want to give money away, no deductions. I’ve worked for a couple of 501’s and a lot of folks in this area have become quite wealthy milking them.

        • As usual, you are giving us your very slanted beliefs as if they were fact. The ACLU has defended Christian cases many, many times.

          http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com

          Your above assessment of the Vectren billing snafu is a great way to indulge your penchant for labeling people as “lazy”, but there are people in my grandson’s situation. He lives in a large apartment complex and does not have any way of knowing which meter is his. He fell victim to a combination of meters not being read and a changed billing cycle, which made the bill almost three times the usual average. He and his roommates could handle it, but I wonder what it did to the residents there who are on a fixed income.

          • If your grandson can’t figure out which meter is his, his schooling has failed him or you have described a “lazy” consumer. Your strawdog casts aspersions on your grandson.

      • If the churches paid their fare share of property taxes, the City and County would be out of the financial woods in no time. I know the idea will bring out the name-callers and fanatics, but it is worth consideration. When one thinks of all the sales and property taxes alone, that’s a hefty chunk of revenue. The mega-churches would likely find loopholes to avoid paying the corporate income taxes they should, but so do all of the big corporations.

        • I would be willing to wager that sufficient meter readers were figured into Vectren’ s budget. Any takers?

          If they are going to estimate bills, at least they could switch neighborhoods monthly.

      • Ridiculous idea! Any gains by taxing churches would quickly be spent by politicians. Meanwhile those churches who GIVE SO MUCH to charities and people in need would suffer.
        If it is your hope to eliminate yet another safety net & bring our society down several notches that tax the church.
        Personally I think more people need to spend more time in churches to find out what they’re all about.

      • How much more revenue would that generate?

        Churches are not the reason we have a deficit. You will not eliminate deficit spending by giving the government more to spend. Many organizations are tax exempt. Taxing churches because they are churches would violate their constitutional protection.

        What we need is a balanced budget amendment.

        BTW, love the loaded question.

    • IE,

      First drastic change should be a “trade surplus” of a half a trillion dollars a year! This would mean millions of able bodies back working, and off the government teat. This would mean thousands of companies getting off their lazy butts from having third world countries doing their work and put forth the effort they once did 50 years ago! This would also eliminate business welfare of binking state and local government on false job creations(moving jobs from one location to another). The list could go on!

      What do you think!

      • I think we need to focus on what we do best, Agriculture and technology, and eliminate business taxes. I know, that sounds radical, but business taxes are a regressive tax on consumers which the government hides from plain view. Those taxes are passed on to the consumer with the corporation’s margin added.

        If we went to the Fair Tax system rather than an income tax system, then taxes would more more closely related to consumer trends and the government could not hide behind bogus job creation numbers. The government does not create jobs, it creates positions.

        Infrastructure spending is good, but it is a transfer of resources, moving jobs, and will never be enough to turn around the economy. The Department of Transportation’s budget is only 1/10 of Health and Human Services. We have to address HHS to make substantial changes.

        • Your thought of the Fair Tax System tied to consumption is unfair to average income families.

          If a person with a $50,000 year income job bought something that after the consumer tax paid say $1,000. That’s was a purchase of 2% of their yearly wage.

          Another person with $200,000 income job, that person would pay the same $1000, put was only 1/2% of the yearly income.

          It “can” be seen as the first person tax rate paid was 4 times more by “ability”, then that the second one had paid.

          Fairness should be the more you earn, the more you should “tithe” the government coffers.

          • Isn’t the definition of a tithe 10%? It seems as though setting a flat percentage would be the easiest and most fair way to proceed.

          • Now when it comes to consumer pricing any system that results in tiered pricing would be inherently unfair. Even the USSR had the good sense not to charge Komrad A 1 ruble for a dozen eggs and then charge Komrad B 10 rubles for the same damn dozen eggs because Komrad B earned more rubles.

          • You’re wanting equal not fair Armstrongs, but equal is never equal. The Fair Tax allowed tax rebates for those with lower income. If you are wanting equal, then you are going to have to forfeit some of your net worth and income to those less equal than you.

          • I see where tithe “is” 10%, my mistake. You should had known my intent though!

            IE, I can not forfeit to those lower then me when I’m on that bottom level!

            Quick read looks like you can drive a Mack truck thru that tax system, no wonder you people want it. No tax for “business to business”, investments, stocks. capitol gains (top 1 % would love this beings over 50% of their income comes from this). Abuse by “business people” saying purchases are business related when their not.

            “NO THANKS”

          • Armstrongers, I don’t buy into the 1% class warfare or that you are at the bottom. When you tax a business it becomes part of the operating expense and is passed on to the with margin added. Taxing a business is taxing their customers.

          • IE, The mention of the 1%ers and that over 50% of their income is from “capitol gains” is not warfare when it is the fact. This beauty of the internet is that it exposes all sides of a discussion! Any warfare that is going on is the “business sector” and their hate of taxes, the IRS, and many other items. Do we hear a constant cry from the consumer about their pay stub tax, or the tax paid at the store? What is going to happen when they have to cough up 30% tax on a item? If you said you past a “markup” on taxes and it bothers you? Stop doing it then! If every one that is in your line of business does it. What’s the issue?

            We have strayed from the original topic. How does the “fair tax” system eliminate nation debt, and trade deficit? When the business sector supports this, it tells me their pockets will be lined at a cost to others. Remember, business never favor anything unless they profit. The dollar is their king!

            Have a good Saturday!

            Oh, by the way. My only transportation is a 20 year old truck, and live in a 75 year old house with original windows. I am at the bottom by “Armstrong Township” standards!

11. This Vectren story is not a story about consumer abuse. It IS a story about utility process and procedure management. (To eliminate salaries and manpower cost associated with monthly human meter readings, all utilities switched to estimated usage bills.)

    And it is ANOTHER STORY about how technology is eliminating jobs. Eliminating salaries and manpower costs by leveraging technology, utilities are switching to wireless/auto-report meters.

    The stockholder-owned Utilities want to save money in order to offer lower rates. All of this is to save the electric/gas consumer money and offer lower prices. Just like WalMart does. They save money and pass the savings on with lower prices.

    • Vectren needs to publicly announce the reduction in cost of meter reading at the savings of the customer only! I will not believe they are looking out for us, and not them only, until then!

12. SIGECO(Vectren) was identified to me by my elders, when I was a young child, as a “No Good Outfit”, 50yrs later and nothing has changed,–they still are a ” No Good Outfit”– and prove it all the time with obscene compensation for the “Big Boys”, and with crap like Charging Read fees for NOT reading the Meter, while putting the common man behind the 8 ball due to their incompetency.. Abolish the IRC,– and require Monopolies like Vectren, seeking approval of their “Game Plan”, to go to the State Legislature where ELECTED representatives –versus the Utility’s APPOINTED Concubines, –will decide what is best for the “Captive” Consumer.

13. Before we lynch Vectren here, one need to look back when we lost power from the weather and were huddle under blankets, and using lanterns and candles! My previous statements are “not” retracted though!

    • Keep tying the noose, Arm. They should be putting all lines underground. We are paying for a top-notch grid and getting a third-rate wad of wire strung around through trees. For the past ten years or so I’ve lived where we have underground utilities, and the longest power outage I’ve had is four hours and that was caused by Vectren’s maintenance work.

      • “They should be putting all lines underground” That’s the jest of it.

        Big! Changes on the nearing event horizon with customers supply choices.

      • Some can be underground, but you don’t want to be walking over tens of thousands of volts. It’s shocking.

      • Seems there was a article on the cost of putting the wires underground in the C&P several years back. Seems it was over a million dollars a mile. This cost would be past back to the consumers. Not a “ROI” for the customer!

        • You are correct on the excessive cost for underground transmission lines. They are more expensive to maintain too because they need to be actively cooled. Overhead transmission lines are cooled by the air and wind which is of no use underground. Distribution lines are routinely underground in newer communities and are sized so that heating from line losses is manageable without active cooling.

14. I received my ticket to the CCO Mole Awards on Monday the 27th of this month. There’s nothing but winners in this years awards. I wish Rick Davis was here to receive his award.

    I know I say this every year but those who visit this site frequently need to thank Ron & Joe for all they do by supporting the CCO at this event. I can tell you firsthand both of them could be doing things that would make them much more money, be less stressful, and get them farther ahead personally than coming on here and taking the lead in the fight to bring good public policy to Evansville. Yet, they do it because they care, because they want to lead, and because they refuse to let Evansville continue accept losing and 2nd place.

    One of the best things about this site is that you can say whatever you believe in. Not too many other sites, if any, can you do that. So be sure to buy a ticket to the CCO Mole Awards this year and support their continued efforts to bring good public policy to Evansville.

    • Well said Rails! How do I buy some tickets? …

      • Thanks for all that you do Bubba…

        citycountyobserver@live.com

        • The email above will go to the planning committee who will be able to give you all of the details.

15. The deficit, the deficit the national debt!! OMG!!! The sky is falling RUN FOR YOUR LIFE”S!!!

    The 10 year Treasury is now 2.1%, the 30 year is at 2.97% the END IS NEAR! I say we should cash in $18T of assets earning 10-12% ROI just so we can pay off debt that cost us less than 3%!!

    FINANCIAL WIZADRY!!!

    I’m quite sure all the tealoons and misers in this country would be happy with that.

    Really CCO? This is what you want to talk about?

    You want to go down the rabbit hole with Tommyromo, IE, and the rest of the misers and take the myopic view
    of just counting one side of the economic ledger? Really?

    The Federal Reserve says the nation’s net worth is now $90-$100T, an increase of $25-30T under the Obama administration because our nation’s assets have increased faster than the nation’s debt. I know that is a hard concept to follow for the MENSA members on this board but it is a fact (Please don’t reply back and try to tell me the CPA’s at the Fed don’t know how to add and subtract or their in some kind of conspiracy that’s idiotic)

    Instead of fretting about the deficit we should be embracing it, because if someone or some country is stupid enough to loan us money at less than 3% fixed for 30 years we should let them do it!!! Then take that money and put it into rebuilding and repairing our country’s infrastructure. It would serve as a great economic stimulus, put construction workers back to work(construction unemployment is 7.0%) and would help alleviate some of the income inequality in this country.

    I await editor’s reply

    (I realize the above are market yields and not auction yields but one is a good proxy for the other)

    • Shhhh they don’t like facts.

      • By observations and analysis,that’s proven fact.

    • I am limited in time so I can’t respond point by point. The low hanging fruit is the “net worth” of the nation with is completely irrelevant because the number of buyers for that is exactly Zero. No buyers means the declared value means nothing.

      • I was wondering about that. BB seems to be implying that listing the country is a real option. I can see it now.

        FOR SALE
        The United States of America
        List Price: $100 Trillion
        20% down payment to be applied to existing debt
        70% to cover off balance sheet obligations of the former republic
        Balance to be distributed among former citizens

        • I believe you will find that although it isn’t saleable, the nation’s net worth is a valuable asset that makes that 3% money available.

          • Must be news dump “positioning” time, They’re it goes again.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP6pV0auwgQ

          • No it doesn’t. It isn’t even collateral. To claim so implies a total disconnect with the banking process. Interest rates are set by the fed because of the needs of the economy not the liquidation value of the national parks. The 3% money is there because the federal reserve is exercising its charge to print money and debt.

    • Brains, as I told Ghost, your deficit magic bean is not going to grow a beanstalk that will take us riches above the clouds.

      Debt destroys wealth, always. That’s not myopic, that is an economic truth. Some time’s destroying a little wealth in the short term has long term returns, Buying a home, investing in equipment. But when one spends more than one’s income, it will always lead to bankruptcy, always, ask Detroit. Deficit spending is not investing, it’s gambling.

      I understand both sides of a ledger sheet and so do you. What you want us to believe is that somehow the economic principles that apply to every other entity somehow does not apply to the government. Why not? Because they have they have printing press? That’s the myopic view.

      MENSA is over rated. I have met a lot of high IQ’s that lack common sense.

16. Mmmmmmmmm! Debt GOOD! Slurp, Chomp, Swallow, BURP! Mmmmmmmmm! DEBT good! GIMME, GIMME, MORE !

17. lol……………….please tell me all these barry obola zombies still backing the commie community organizer clown is only one person with 10 screen names……..oh wait we do have 40yrs of liberal rule in ol etown………deadbeats freeloaders and takers the progressive way………..

18. also we see the new barry obolas ebola czar is the major player in the solyndra scandal and passed out the 850 billion stimulus package to all the barry obola donors instead of the shovel ready jobs that was promised……..all of that with out a stitch of medical knowledge in other words he is just yet one more commie liberal community organizer……….liberalism is with out a doubt a mental disorder……………..

    • Bigots suck.

19. The Ebola problem is real. Obama will not ban fights from countries with Ebola epidemics to the US. Complete idiocy! Call or e-mail Congressman Bucshon’s office and Senator Coates office to start the easiest and first response to this potential national security disaster. Who the heck voted for this idiot President.

    • Approximately 53% of the electorate did. I think you’ll find Coates is enjoying his home in N.C. and Buschon is appearing to campaign for re-election, so don’t expect anything but a “canned” response from either of them. Vote Spangler for Congress!

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