IS IT TRUE April 18, 2014

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Mole #??

IS IT TRUE that 4th ward City Councilwoman Connie Robinson was never contacted by DMD Director Phil Hooper to get her input concerning the Downtown Historical matching grant to help fund the fancy period street lights campaign? …we are hearing that Mr. Hooper has also taken on himself to award project loan/grants to assist select business in the Arts District to renovate or expand? …we were told that we would be surprised to learn what approach Mr. Hooper used to award select Arts District business renovation loan/grant money? …once again we hear that DMD Director Phil Hooper didn’t consult the 4th ward City Councilwoman Connie Robinson to get her input?

IS IT TRUE we hear that the City of Evansville through a non-profit entity has loaned a large amount of taxpayer’s money to individuals and businesses to develop downtown condos and loft apartments that are now in default? …President Ronald Reagan had it right when he said that “government shouldn’t do for people what they should do for themselves”?

IS IT TRUE that California’s Tesla Motors is making news across the country right now by trying to expand their business model of direct sale of cars to the public and facing the harsh reality that many states including Indiana have laws in place to prevent them from doing so?…there are but a few Teslas in Evansville but the laws of Indiana forced the people who bought them to travel to another state to make the purchase because Tesla sells direct and does not use dealers?…it is kind of shocking to learn that any state legislature would make a law to add a middle man to the food chain thus raising prices at the consumer level and adding costs where no value is added?…Texas, Arizona, New Jersey, and New York have taken some lumps in the news for their crony based deals to keep direct auto sellers out of the markets?…Texas and Arizona are even trying to get Tesla to place a lithium battery factory in their state while preventing them from selling their products in the manner their business plan clearly states?…this writer predicts that this buggy whip era cronyism will backfire on Texas and Arizona and that the so called Giga-factory will land in the region between the Coachella Valley and Imperial County in Southern California?…with the abundance of lithium, the proximity to markets, and the freedom to sell to whom they wish in the manner they wish will win the day for California that is not exactly known as a manufacturing magnet because of excessive regulations?…one would think that a state like Indiana would have the good sense to repeal such an archaic law?

IS IT TRUE that automobile dealers are not the only protected species in the State of Indiana?…the distribution of beer, wine, and distilled spirits also has distributor laws that protect a profit stream for a few at the expense of many?…manufacturers of alcoholic beverages cannot by law sell their products directly to retail outlets like liquor stores and grocery stores?…this byzantine law adds a layer of non value adding price increases that can run as high as 25% at the cash register?…in layman’s terms that adds roughly a dollar to each six pack of beer, three dollars to each bottle of wine, and it goes up from there?…Indiana even goes so far as to prohibit the sale of alcohol and cars on Sunday, driving more business across the border to other states?…we need as a state to learn how to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and heaping unnecessary costs onto the backs of our citizens?

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118 COMMENTS

  1. I doubt it even occurred to Mr. Hooper to consult with Councilwoman Robinson in the matter of the lights. She only represents the “other” Fourth Ward, not the “special part”, in his mind and the minds of the wanna-be “elites” of SE First St.
    If it is true that funds were diverted to the loft/condo project, Winnecke needs to start passing out “pink slips” to every appointed official whose fingerprints show up on the paperwork. That shouldn’t be enough to save his bacon, but he’s not going to resign unless he goes to jail, and I think this probably qualifies as “snegal.” That is probably good, as there is no telling who Wayne would get us for Mayor. If the Phoenix flies to within the city limits, I’m going to get worried.

    • Pretty perceptive comment about the two 4th Wards.

      ‘Let them use flashlights’ ~~ Uttered At The Onset Of The 4th Ward Illumination But Not By Marie Marionette

      • Balancing a love of historic preservation and a love of cultural diversity is pretty tricky. It’s really hard to keep so many great old buildings functioning without a total sell-out to the forces of gentrification in any setting. The atmosphere I encountered in the downtown Evansville area was NOT healthy for such a balancing act three decades back, and it appears to have worsened over the years.

    • Comrade, I am delighted to see that someone from the Taker Community is not ashamed to weigh in on controversies concerning loans made to private individuals by the government for real estate improvements. As you know quite well, people who default on such loans often feel reluctant to weigh in on such discussions, fearing that they will accurately be termed deadbeats by a savage chorus of radical right-wingers who repaid their own loans and did not benefit from being a loyal member of the Party.

      Please keep up the good work!!

          • LOL. The editors should continue to hold the president accountable.

            The mockers, (for which the above message is directed) the slur slingers(marxist, communist etc) the sabotuers, the defunders, the 50 vote repealers at $1.75M per pop, the liars and deceivers should all keep quiet and be glad rotten vegtables aren’t being tossed at them.

            Instead of are we better off we should ask which would you rather hear about?

            Roadside bombs, soldiers coming home with limbs blown off, 500,000 medical bankrupcties per year, massive financial fraud and bailout, etc.

            Or stories of people getting health insurance for the first time.

            • Yes, and as you may recall the CCO has always expressed support for the idea of universal health care but have been justifiably harsh on the chaos of the implementation. The launch in October was like the opponents ran the opening kickoff back for a touchdown. The 8 Million that the President just announced is like the supporters just completed a long slow touchdown drive to tie the score at 7 – 7 at the end of the 1st quarter. Both have done their happy dance and now the work begins. Hopefully these people will work together to do things that bring prices down for drugs and routine care so we don’t have bankruptcies from the higher deductibles and premiums. We are a long way from being able to do a victory dance and to start burning couches to celebrate.

  2. I agree our freedom of choice trumps all else but wonder how you can you say there is no value added by having a dealership nearby?

    A dealership clearly adds value. What good is any product if it must be shipped across the county for service?

    A vehicle shipped round trip to CA. would have to cost well over 5K & probably more for the added security of an enclosed container which I would want for a $ 90K car.

    I dislike the law but stand firm a dealership adds value.

    • Dealership or store can provide the same thing. One food chain is manufacturer – dealer – consumer. The other is direct to consumer. Either way you need salespeople, mechanics, facilities etc. In all likelihood many dealers would be better at providing service than the manufacturer would and people will reward that with business. The thing that is unnecessary is legal mandates on the food chain.

      The business model of the big auto manufacturers is built around dealers. It seems to work. The real beef is that direct selling is forbidden by law.

      Shipping a car from CA to Evansville costs $800. I will be shipping one in two weeks and have been gathering quotes. Every sticker price has that line item for “destination charges” anyway so we are all used to paying it.

    • A customer should have the choice whether they want the “value added” by a dealership or distributorship. It is sort of like choosing between shopping in the big department store for name-brand merchandise or shopping for the same brands at “off-price” stores and websites.
      Besides, the distributor/dealership “franchises” are a great “make-work” opportunity for wealthy families to have someplace to put their not-so-gifted members. Take a look around you.

      • I don’t think that is a good analogy. Its about a person purchasing a product from a manufacturer minus the law dictating where you can buy the product.

        • You’re right. I was addressing the “value added” part of the comment. No law should force you to go for the “value added.”

      • You don’t have to look far. They like to make their own commercials. All things considered, I’ve never understood that. Some are downright creepy. ‘They just do things the right way’.

        • I just had a great idea for a new sit-com, called “The Dealerships”. All we need to do is change the names.

    • Some independent mechanic or franchise like Midas would figure out how to work on a Tesla. Most maintenance and repairs on cars is already done outside of dealerships because of the markups. Dealers mark things up to much so all they get is warranty work that they bill the manufacturer for. This would be no different. As for shipping a car to get it serviced, you are right. That would be nuts. My point is that you wouldn’t have to. By the way I don’t think Teslas have a need for oil changes etc. The only moving parts are the wheels and doors. There will be less maintenance and no emissions.

      • I surely don’t have to ship the old Volvo back to Sweden to get it worked on, and I don’t take it to the dealership, either. I’ve got a great, honest, and reliable mechanic. I’m thinking there are plenty of good people who’d pay for instruction in Tesla repair.

        • http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1h1a2l/eli5_why_tesla_is_banned_from_selling_cars_in_48/

          â– 
          Tesla operates showrooms, which they own themselves and are not francised, in a lot (10) of states but it does not sell from those showrooms as dealerships would. You order online after you ogle.

          â– 
          They have gotten in trouble for operating like that in states with certain franchise laws in place to protect dealerships. Those laws had a more justifiable purpose back in the day, as explained in the answer to this ELI5 question by /u/iohannes99.

          â– 
          Tesla has active “selling” stores in Minnesota and Massachusetts, where it can get around their particular franchise laws. This is apparently the source of the “48 states prevent or restrict direct car sales” statement in almost all articles about direct-to-consumer sales.

          â– 
          For all other states, the sale occurs over the internet but in California. (same linked article above). The car arrives with temp tags on a flat bed and then you register the car in your home state.

          â– 
          Dealers have used their state’s franchise laws to prevent direct-to-consumer sales recently in Texas; North Carolina and Virginia. Things seem to be looking better for Tesla though in New York and a case went in [Tesla’s favor earlier this spring]

          â– 
          New York tested whether it was illegal to register a CA-purchased Tesla in the state given existing franchise laws and came in on the side of Tesla. The lack of motion on bills which tried to fix this “loophole” in the favor of dealers is what is referenced above.

      • If the Tesla is like most new cars good luck on getting anything fixed requiring software and related type fixes. That is unless Tesla is more willing to make updates, bug fixes and the like easily available.

        Sure a shade tree or Jiffy Lube can do some of the routine stuff but as you correctly point out, no need for a Tesla oil change.

  3. ” 59 employees of Chesapeake Pharmaceuticals and Healthcare Packaging will be out of work?…”

    IN loves archaic laws. We did just try to pass HJR#3, didn’t we?

    • Indaiana laws are no more archaic than any other state. We can change this practice, but the best way to kill it in the bud is make enemies by you, me, or anyone to drag it through the emotions and misinformation of HJR3 or any other insular issue.

  4. EKB: Some day,being a historical district buff you are, We might arrange a coffee session down there. The events of the last few years has left me in possession of some family historical stuff that you never would see or hear in the local media there.
    One thing Myself and the living relatives do realize is somehow,the actual deeds to at least seven property plots in Downtown Evansville and the historical district,plus some considerable acreage out in the county is likely under a Will deeds situation that according to some out of state firm a cousin is affiliated with whom reviewed the information concluded some conditions are not met,and the wrong people actually did move the property when that was done. IT turns out the family worked it out somehow,but later in the last century someone screwed up the commissions of the properties. The people who actually owned them,didn’t sell them,someone from “left field did” We actually have the documents dated in 1903,in the court of the honorable Louis O Rasch.

    The thing is the conditions of the trust were not met,and from what we have gathered somehow about 1923 they somehow worked this between certain parties,however the conditions of deed today apparently are wrong. No one in my family is contesting anything if we did the stink would be felt coast to coast,we are not about that. But some people sitting on property that’s in the game today might shutter to think how that might be applied if someone did.
    No plans for that,those old relatives of ours,did know exactly what they were doing though.

    Most of the properties involved became family owned way back in the early and mid 1800’s in fact the original transfers were from the land deeds and block abstract
    From the United States,to Hugh McGary on April the 6th of 1816,transfers including 440 acres and other transfers June 20th 1817,and Feb,1821.
    There’s even three signed over from Huge McGarys.wife to Robert w. Evans and James W,Jones in June 1817,and January 1 1819.

    The conditions went a stray,in 1903,1906,and 1908.

    No one,that I know of,is concerned about this,however, We do have a 3-4 cousin do there on SE1st,that just might have an interest in a whole lot more they do now..

    The auditor back then,was some fella named Harry Stinson somebody named Fred L Woelker was the recorder on some of the Deeds involved. We also think some of the stuff was paid into the family for some outstanding dept some people owed them.
    there’s some stock certificates that are “quite intriguing”,as well.

    I remember the family talking about this stuff when I was a child,hopefully it all worked out for them. I also remember when they screwed up main street with the civic center,my Grandfather,and a couple of his immediate relatives saying something about one local politician who they said was “putting on some sticky heirs” and they needed to straighten him out with some private consultation,so to speak,that dealt directly with some property downtown also.

    Given the situation now,they MUST have straightened that out about like they were planning. One things for sure those abstracts sure would take a load of environmental and utilities sustainability balancing before I’d want them,We also think in relation to the article the taxes might be a looming issue forward to 🙂

    • It sounds like you have some great stuff, and a lot of knowledge about what makes this place tick the way it does. Coffee and documents sounds great to me!

      • The most interesting stuff I’ve got are some daily life journals,those Men wrote them,if we had that insight today so many things could be solved in a days time.
        The Men back then were Honorable,that was way more than a title, given.
        Mostly what one gets from the reads are indications that most of the Businessmen in downtown Evansville actually lived up to the title when required for the community. “Different times.”
        There is a couple of pages in one of those writings that’s pretty impressive in relation to the ethics or compassion they lived.
        One of those the properties on SE1st,that even today is a really attractive stately home, was, I guess, once the home built by a shipping magnate there. Riverboats,packets,it seems after the civil war a charlatan from back east talked the owner of that company into a goodwill type philanthropy using his packets to offer relief for some southern river town communities. The guy fell for the sharpies spiel and invested and offered some boat space for shipping needs,must of lost his ass’ets.

        The scammer hauled in the cash and goods sold them down south and fled never to be found again out in the western territories,that left the packet owners and others whom fell for the deal holding the “big fat carpet bag,” so too speak.

        That same sharpie dude had also contacted others with notable businesses in town,also my GGGrandFather, being one of’em,as well. He offered some goods to be shipped from Evansville,specifically children’s shoes,but nothing else.
        The shipping magnate later approached his trusted fellows in Evansville then and tried to save his assets and pay back the loss to others he’d involved in what he thought was a goodwill gesture.
        My ole Gramps then back in late 18OOs was one of’em. The packet guy gave Gramps the deed to his home,to hold for payment forward, if, he couldn’t refund him in set period years,he couldn’t,the only ones that new of this situation were Gramps,the packet guy and one of his relatives.
        Not the guys wife, Gramps says in the journal she was not very well accustomed at keeping from Lady folk gossip.
        The kicker is when the fellow died,my GGGrandfather gave the title back to the Family,and found out later that Six other local Business Men did about the same thing.
        Those Fellows never cashed in on their Members,misfortune,and each One had kept the issue quiet,as well.

        Try that in Evansville today………! When we show this stuff it’ll be on the QT!
        Might need armed security escorts……down there now !

  5. Good Job editor, and thank you Weinz for bringing this issue forward. It is you at your best.

    Now will Krull and his crew muscle up to issue?

    • Thanks for the shout-out I-E.

      Thanks more to the CCO. What is happening in these tiers is wrong and the CCO is right…anti-American.

      W.

    • I’ll break my vow of silence to say this…What you are saying is deplorable. Disagree with his professional decisions all that you want, but Phillip Hooper is a dedicated husband & father. For you to suggest otherwise is despicable. CCO should not let your message stand.

      • thank you Mr.Davis you are the best……..is it true 4/18 should be titled liberal hypocrites gone wild………..

      • You put the name to it and made it much worse than the original post that came down. Your successful attempt at censorship did him no favors.

        • There’s censorship and there’s decency. I fully support anyone’s freedom of speech, but there is a line that should not be crossed. We enter the arena, our families do not. I know his wife well enough to know that something like that could not damage their relationship, but why would anyone think that it’s acceptable to make a wild accusation like that in a public forum. In some marriages, it could be the seed that is planted to drive a couple to divorce and break up the parental relationship of two beautiful kids, in their case. Once again, the anonymity of the internet and use of pseudonym gave someone that guts to say something that they would not have said otherwise. That’s why I abhor posting under a pseudonym and that’s why I’ve been getting a kick out of you and elkaybee calling other people my name. I will never post without using my real name because I am not a coward and I am confident in my ability to debate anyone that comes to me. It shouldn’t even be a question because I’ve never shown you otherwise, but the next time you’re questioning if someone else is me remember this: My posts are normally wordy. My writing style does not allow for one or two sentences to get my point across. Also, I’m normally the one wiping the floor with those that choose to debate me. So much that they always resort to name-calling because they can’t win on the merit of their argument or the facts that are presented. Now, excuse me while I go back to my vow of silence.

        • Furthermore, I didn’t put the name to it. There has only been one person from DMD mentioned today. Once again you have proven that you lack the ability for reading comprehension and discernment of information. Yet you always have an opinion on things. No worries. I’ll let you get back to mocking my education.

          • You did too. You named the guy. It’s on you. Nobody would have paid any attention to it if you wouldn’t have felt the need to scold, which seems to be your longsuit.

            Mock your own education, you’re doing a pretty good job of it.

      • thank you Mr.Davis you are the best……CCO is it true 4/18 should be titled liberal hypocrites gone wild…………

          • I missed it too. I really don’t care about the man’s personal life, though. I think the failure to recognize Mrs. Robinson was just a “slip up”, because he knows she isn’t who counts on SE First St.

          • Connie doesn’t count for much in most of the 4th Ward. I’m in the 4th Ward and know we are not represented adequately in the city council. No big deal neither is anyone else.

      • Have you seen it happen? Do you have proof? If so, please post it. If not, keep your gossip to yourself. People like you are the scum of the earth.

        • While I agree that the comment is highly inappropriate, your name-calling doesn’t raise your stock any, either.

      • Here’s my issue with gossip like this. If a man and a woman are friends, it’s automatically assumed by some that they’re sleeping together. It’s almost as if they assume that the woman has no value other than sex or the man is such a carnal beast that he can not be friends with a woman and nothing else. I have plenty of female friends most of them would be considered to be attractive. The only body part that I am focused on is their brain. You can keep your sexist and misogynist ideas and stuff them.

        • Phyllip
          assuming things like that only make a ass out of you ,you have no idea what other people are thinking and besides that your judging other people and that is as wrong as lips on a chicken

        • I suspect I am speaking for more than just myself when I say nobody is interested in the nature of yours or Hoopers’ relationships, but I find it odd that you took the discourse to the bottom rung the way you did. You know what they say about protesting too much.

  7. Less automobile sales? I think you guys have just found yet another thing that I will never lose an ounce of sleep over.

  8. It’s Friday news dump time, and going into a holiday weekend. This would be a great time for the audit news to come out, but I guess it isn’t coming.

  9. You say what? What does this mean? Why would the SBOA take down the page that hosed the current audits?

  10. Sara, “Why would the SBOA take down the page that (hosed) the current audits?” Maybe your right about the hosed question.

  12. Anybody heard from Wayne? I hear that he is puling out all stops to insure that Marsha beats Bruce. Get ready CCO, I also hear he is going to put pressure of some of your advertisers to drop ads in your paper.

  13. Thats ok,where ever its ~housed~ its likely someone got ~hosed~while it was on its way to be ~housed~,as well.

  14. EDITOR…..

    Kudos……great job……wonderful to see the CCO highlight the archaic IN State law protected middle-man business models (note TESLA mentions above) in auto manufacturing and beer/beverage distribution.

    I am just smiling…..I was surprised to see this this evening. I have been traveling today…and in Wash DC this weekend….and spread too thin to comment further.

    Happy to see CCO lead efforts for justice….

      • God I love to hear comments like this.

        even though I know it won’t last…………

        • You’re such a softy for a good love story. No reason for it not to last. I think Weinz and I have found a boundary. We can disagree on other issues without violating one another’s boundaries.

          The greater issue is how do we move this dealership issue from the wish list to the action list?

          The CCO kicking it off is great and it takes them to a new level, state issues rather than local. Perhaps we could get Krull or Howey to pick up this issue?

          Because, as Weinz said, there is a strong lobby, it’s going to have to become a popular movement before it can become a political one.

          Perhaps unions would divert some anti-RTW weight to the issue. Cheaper beer should motivate them.

  15. CCO Editor I now know for a fact that Wayne Parke called one of your advertisers today and tried to put political pressure on him dropping his ad with the CCO. This person does some service contracts work with the County. Wayne Parke told him that the powers that be may not like him advertising in the CCO because they are always bashing the Mayor and Marsha Abell.

    Mr. Parke strongly suggested that he withdraw his ad with the CCO soon as possible.

    Is this legal for the local GOP party Chairmen to pressure someone who advertises in the CCO to drop their ad our may lose a County or City service contract?

  17. If Bruce beats Marsha he needs to publicly request that Wayne Parke resigns as Party Chairmen. I’m a big supporter of Marsha Abell but can tell you that Wayne Parke actions against the CCO and her opponent has caused Marsha to lose her re-election bid. for County Commissioner.

  18. Im a loyal Democrat but must admit I shall be crossing party lines on primary election day to vote for Bruce Ungethiem. It’s obvious that it is time for a change.

    I also agree that this Parke fellow has really hurt Mrs. Abel’s re-election chances.

    • Wayne would want God to use His real name while posting on here which would be Wayne………..

  20. Yard sign tally.

    Darmstadt Road North from Highland elementary to
    Boonville-New Harmony Rd

    Ungethiem – 4
    Abell – 3

    Old State Road to From Boonville-New Harmony to
    Campground Road

    Ungethiem – 4
    Abell – 4

    Ungethiem one 4X8 at Old state and Boonville New Harmony

    Niether is knocking it out of the park

    Burdsall and Stucki have at least double the both of them.

  21. Phillip Hooper is working on the gas lamps? I thought it was just the rich. I say hell yea. Keep on fighting the good fight. I just got back from Owensboro. I don’t think those are gas lights over there but the ones that have symbolized their downtown growth look great and no doubt bring people to their downtown.

    Between that and the reconfiguration of the roads around Haynie’s Corner, things are getting better in that area.

    Thanks!

    • Streetlights bring people downtown, Jordan? I know Owensboro is small, but even there, nobody goes downtown because of streetlights.
      I really admire your enthusiasm and energy, and I think you have a bright future. That being said, it is easy to get swept away in false comparisons.
      Reality checks are always a good thing, and the one you need to make more often is that we, as a city, are pretty much broke. It doesn’t matter that we have a decade-old “Master plan” similar to a successful one in Lexington. We don’t have the money to execute it, and Evansville does not have much in common with Lexington.
      It doesn’t matter that the greasy food fest on the West Side is second to Mardi Gras in crowd size. New Orleans has a LOT more than Mardi Gras to offer, and it is on a year-round basis.
      I know I sound like “Debbie Downer,” but sometimes reality bites.
      Evansville, stop imitating and start innovating!

      • In my view Evansville politicians has had the misconception they bigger than their britches attempting innovate (its such a misleading buzzword) via public projects not fitting its population size and attempting to “revitalize” (I hate that word) various areas by throwing around endless sums of taxpayers money.

        Every action they have taken will sooner or later require higher taxes. Where is the benefit to the citizens when any perceived pluses are gained when you (us citizens) are knocked back (or further) by higher taxes? None really and all we are left with is the shallow comfort there is now (will be) a school in downtown. If there is any imitating going on it is trying to be bigger than you really are.

        What would be really innovating and surprising is the politicians looking at the root cause of the cities decline. Some of that decline is outside our local control, granted. However, no amount of stadiums, parks, dog pooping grounds, schools in downtown will fix that, not possible.

        Perhaps a similar focus should be applied as mentioned by Weinzwestside and start weeding out similar or outdated laws from the township to county level.

        Yes Evansville has a lot of problems but what is the biggest one?

        • It’s hard to name the biggest, but a shrinking tax-base ranks high on the list. We also have a problem with decayed infrastructure, and a core that is “rotten” with blight and crime, that is not being dealt with in a significant and effective way.
          It kind of all falls back on an irresponsible and badly informed electorate that allows a culture of corruption to stay at the helm of government.
          Btw, when I urge Evansville to “innovate”, I am saying that we need to embrace who we are and where we are and base improvements on that, not some plan that worked well someplace else.

          • Thanks for the innovative clarification. 🙂

            But you were only allowed to identify one. 🙂

            I’d say the shrinking tax base is number one, which means job lose. How does the city respond to that? What is the best way? I really do not like the past pandering done using tax privileges to entice a company to move in, never have liked that method. The main reason is the intentional shunning done to local businesses. Yes I realize no local businesses builds cars.

            Anyway. It says you (local businesses) are not worthy enough to get massive tax breaks and a slew of other goodies. I’d like for once to see a city/county give those same kind of breaks to existing or new local business and see what happens over say a five year period. The idea could use a little fine tuning, sure but how is that for innovative?

            • Well they have been offering handouts to business to come here for at least 30 years and what difference has it made? Evansville is smaller and poorer than it was when this “buying of jobs” nonsense started. Is 30 years enough time to pronounce something a failure if the place is not getting better because of it? Of course the people who do that will argue that it would have shrunk more and been even poorer still were it not for the handouts. Evansville and many places have it backwards. To attract jobs you have to have people. To attract people you need quality of life. A place with crumbling infrastructure, a mediocre school system, and clueless leaders will never attract or even retain quality people. The national studies that paint us as the leaders in meth, suicide, and obesity don’t help either, not that they are not well deserved.

          • Substance,

            You are right to a point about the past 30 years and all those efforts were to bring in the “big boy” companies and really afaiac those big boy companies are only looking for a temporary (so to speak) way to bolster their global corporate bottom line. Once they have milked that they are gone. Lets face it, until those bennies are offered they would not have a clue where on the map Evansville resides.

            I am talking about the local guys, those businesses that are already here, have been here and about the only place they would go is into bankruptcy. Would giving similar tax advantages to the local guys make any difference. Don’t know but then has anyone really tried on a large scale?

            • Berry Plastics has gotten lots of hand outs. They are local. That printing company that just announced they are shutting down got some handouts. Vectren and ONB both got hand outs. Mead Johnson got hand outs. I bet there are allot more too. That was just from doing a quick Google search on a Saturday morning. It is just like poaching the big ones. There have been some success stories but not enough to stop the losses.

          • EKB: What our Bright site team suggests one should look into for the riverside historical district. Either or,but planet smart for carbon sequestration cost and forward reliability.
            What Gramps had in the front was on his side of the meter,So that type could easily be addressed by those Vectren buddies they have locally by incremental application programming.

            http://gas-lights.com/

            http://www.ideaslaboratory.com/2014/02/17/innovation-in-natural-gas/

            Gramps and his buds built the homes in the riverside district with gas lights with most abstract’s,including the outside accent lighting around the homes and at the streets. MOstly the lighting was on they’re side of the meters though.
            Today’s alternatives are so much more viable in,cost,and planet smart applications,however they really can look the same and have more illumination if required.

            http://www.greatbasinlighting.com/blog/outdoor-led-lighting-projects/

            http://isg-lighting.com/

            http://lightingaz.com/

            http://www.innovativelight.com/

            http://www.ledlightsbright.com/Gas-Light~CTzg-4NxD5s&~How%20Innovative%20Led%20Lighting%20Can%20Save%20Fuel%20And%20Reduce%20Co2%20Emi

            Get with Morton Solar, Vectren,and the Evansville museum,then,the levee authority,and city parks department,place the solar panels on the river side of the levee system down close to the water works with the correct solar approach make it attractive per landscape visibility,use, the innovative LED lighting with the period lighting to accent the Greenway,sunset park,and the Whole Riverside district. (cost savings per KW forward (Cheap.)
            Build and apply per science presentation for smart planet climate change presentation managed by Vectren Corporation and the Museum for the city of Evansville’s downtown historical presentation.

            Incremental community carbon sequestration points forward planet smart for climate change and security,just in case the planet decides to toss a load of ice or wind and trees onto the current methodologies in place today. Emergency management viability, well as, community energy progress.

            Another team discussion we’ve had is that Joe and the CCO editors could save Evansville some money due the leadership evansville functions if they just added a daily innovation conceptualization sidebar,or listing to the CCO. The City LE team could save a butt load of funding and carbon balance inputs and that’s “funding due incremental travel and location presentation” for the coloring books. A couple of smart city IT people could glean the ideas presented and save all that other fluff involved.
            Plus! you would see it at the CCO first! EKB,betcha some other media people observe this,as well. 🙂

        • D: That would be,CSO and utilities infrastructures as carried forward and those citizen costs due revenues assessed. Priority and community attraction viability indexing,alone.
          Every innovation team on the planet prioritizes pathway intersections for best projects sustainability,apparently,with the exception of evansville/vanderburg.

          # “unus”

          # “one”

        • Substance,

          True you are. Like I said the “plan” needs some tweaking and such conglomerates and corporations like Vectran, ONB and Mead Johnson need not apply. I am referring to those local businesses without such entanglements you mentioned.

          • We definitely need to boost already-existing businesses that can and will expand with “goodies”, but we need to really work on supplying well-trained workers instead of just giving it “lip service.” A close, working relationship between existing employers with EVSC is a “must-have.” I know, we have some good programs, but they need to be improved on. The goal should be for every EVSC grad to have a marketable skill, whether it is writing code or flipping burgers. That applies to those who are going on to college, as well as those who are not.
            Even though we fell victim to the Earthcare scam, Evansville needs to open up to “green energy” and tech careers (even if Marsha Abel doesn’t like the idea.)

          • I am not particularly convinced a lack of skilled or educated people is the problem. I know of several people skilled in the area of technology left Evansville, not because of greener pastures elsewhere but lack of a green pasture in E-ville. In other words, they left because no one would hire them.

            Not to put to fine a point on it; you can have all the programs you want and such intimate relationships with EVSC there is no discernible division, and on and on but it doesn’t mean diddly squat when local businesses are not in a position to hire (for a multitude of reasons).

      • The legend of the 2nd biggest festival crowd is nothing but urban mythology. It sounds cool and no one challenges it but even the West Side nut clubbers know it is just something that was made up long ago and has taken a life of its own. When I was at Gage we spoke with some of them about it and they just laughed about it.

        Where I live now there are 4 festivals in April that draw bigger crowds than the Fall Festival. Two are called Coachella Fest and draw close to 100,000, Stagecoach draws about 75,000, and the White Party draws in the 50k – 60k range. All are multiple days and these attendance counts are not adding up the days, these are the numbers of unique attendees as verified by ticket sales. If one goes to the Fall Festival every day one gets counted every day. Actually there is not even an official count. The guesses come from a few guys doing a count at one intersection and scaling it up to the 6 or 8 blocks of Franklin Street where it is held.

        The Fall Festival is a unique food carnival with a big local following. It is not a tourist draw for anyone outside of the 50 mile bubble around Evansville or former residents. It is not a national phenomena and as cool and big as it may be it is not the second largest festival in the United States. There are plenty that are larger but if it makes locals feel good what the heck, keep on talking it up.

        • I had looked it up not long ago, and knew better. In fact, we’re nowhere close. Had a memory lapse, I guess. I kind of agree on the “let the locals believe” philosophy.

        • Festivals are fine and all but not something I would peg an economy. Yes I know every dollar helps but one can only eat so many elephant ears.

          • I fully agree. The purpose of my post was to debunk the myth that the Fall Festival is the 2nd largest in the world with some examples to prove it. I didn’t have to get more than 15 miles from home to do so.

          • Right you are Joe. It seems Evansville and I include much of its citizens along with the politicians always focus on the wrong things or those things that are transitory or one off deals that are billed as something akin to the second coming and well, don’t live up to the hype.

            I can only imagine if over the past ten years had the administrations using all the millions it has borrowed and instead just gave the equivalent of tax breaks to the citizens and small business owners what it would be like today.

      • Yes Laura, street lights bring people to downtown Owensboro. Their downtown organization, which I asked Parke a thousand times on here why can’t we have one like this, did an excellent job incorporating the sense of place you get in downtown Owensboro with their consistent light and facade design…

        http://static.wix.com/media/793133_968983cb407035e3e3e9bfdc0ca04441.jpg_256

        Even after visiting Owensboro, I still feel like their decision to tear down the Rivermont in favor of two run of the mill hotels was a mistake and a costly one at that.

        But outside of that, I mean damn they have an enormous amount of momentum going and they are just getting started. It appears an arena and a ballpark are on their way. And my favorite, a street car line down Frederica.

        Yes, they do have a dog park in Smothers Park but it’s in their downtown/central park not some elitist Wesselman Park, and no one is trying to tear down a historic arena to build it there. It has its place, it’s just way, way WAAAYYYY down the totem pole.

        Owensboro is literally half the size of Evansville, yet is doing the right things correctly for the most part. Evansville is not broke, but it is wasting opportunities by tying up its Innkeepers on a wasted ball fields project while tying up its TIF with a wasted med school proposal. But that doesn’t mean there’s not a way of building things. A canal for example could qualify for state funding.

        What the problem is here is an overwhelming amount of selfishness. One side wants money and they want it on the far far eastside. The other wants power, and they will invoke downtown once or twice with a hotel or med school but largely they are just about power, they are not against building an interstate, a high school, a ball fields complex, or a tech park as far away from downtown as possible.

        And now we will have a civil war within a civil war as any new master plan is going to pit Tropicana vs the Ford Center district for amenities such as a ballpark and around we go once more, that’s assuming all money isn’t lost on freaking lights on Burkhardt.

        • I think you’re not getting the big picture here, Jordan. The IUMS thing is over. I think it was another in a long line of mistakes, but I’m nobody special. My opinion is no more valuable than anyone else’s.
          The point is this: The east side is where it’s going on. It’s where commerce happens. Downtown is not where “urban life” lives anymore. It’s here, where I can walk to do most errands and can make a tank of gas last for two weeks.
          Downtown is now the out-of-the-way location, and none of the money that has been poured into revitalization is going to change that. Citing the school in such an inconvenient, cramped location is going to accomplish nothing. If those “in the know” thought it was such a good thing, Deaconess would not have given that land to Habitat. It would have been held onto for auxiliary development around the Med School.
          The people who fight the hardest for downtown are their own worst enemies. They are trying to force the area back into the fifties, which are over, never to return. They should be driving toward the future, instead of the past.
          Downtown may become a desirable place if the city’s population increased significantly. It doesn’t matter how many lovely streetlights there are if the population continues to shrink. People don’t pick a place to live or visit based on them, no matter what you want to believe.

          • Cities with large populations that live downtown all have some things in common. Those are a bunch of good downtown jobs, a very bad traffic problem so downtown living saves you a bunch of time and anxiety, and third enough basic things downtown like grocery stores, restaurants, etc. that keep one from HAVING to go to the suburbs to shop. Evansville is not there and no amount of entertainment venues will get it there. To attract a really good grocery store alone will require over 10,000 local patrons. Downtown does not have the land to support the 3,000 to 5,000 residential units that would be needed to support a grocery store.

            When I was with GAGE we were really under pressure from Mayor Winnecke (he was not mayor then) to attract a grocery store to downtown. I personally looked into the selection criteria and placed some calls to Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s. What I learned was downtown Evansville is no where close to meeting their selection criteria. Quite frankly for these two markets that were our targets, the whole metro does not meet their criteria. There is a link below with a short version of what they are looking for. The conclusion of our search was that continuing to try to convince them to change had a probability for success of an RCH (engineering term for infinitesimally small) above zero. Here is an excerpt from Whole Food’s online info. Trader Joe’s was 500,000 people.

            “According to the Whole Food’s site, some requirements include: having 200,000 or more people within a 20-minute drive time; a location that’s between 25,000 and 50,000 square feet; that there be a large number of college-educated residents; ample parking for the store’s exclusive use; a stand alone location preferably; easy access from roadways, lighted intersection; excellent visibility directly off the street; and that the location be in a high traffic area either by foot or vehicle.”

            http://eastwindsor.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/trader-joes-and-whole-foods-take-stock-before-opening-457e40c2

            I repeat. This will not happen in any foreseeable time-frame. Evansville is 100 years from meeting these criteria. Now if the current way of doing things is changed maybe that can be shortened to 30 – 50 years.

          • The med school isn’t over technically. I don’t understand why the council has to rubber stamp a plan put together on a premium. If Dan Adams questions this great med school he’s all about like he does cemeteries we’d be where we should be- in a logjam til the school was moved to a better/cheaper site. But judging by the way Friend was going on about this from the 30,000 foot view on the news last night, I don’t see any resistance with what is essentially the last of the TIF.

  22. So what shall we talk about this morning?

    The Bundy/Bunny Ranch

    Ukraine

    Republican Senate candidates now dodging questions about the ACA.

    Citizens who have insurance for the first time confronting GOP candidates

    Chelsea Clinton expecting

    The Grimes/McConnell race

    • They’re all good subjects, with the possible exception of Chelsea’s impending motherhood. I think the right-wing has already worn that one out, with their “suspicious timing” paranoia.
      Chelsea and Mark have been married for awhile, have a fantastic Manhattan apartment, and are financially stable. A baby is the next step in most couple’s lives. Of course, in “crazy world” a Clinton baby is just a “political ploy” to get votes for Grandma Hillary. Will the insanity never end?
      Wow! I just talked about it, didn’t I?

  24. I hear Wayne is busy looking for ways to encourage CCO advertisers to drop the ads in this publication.

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