IS IT TRUE October 16, 2013

1. The Windmill Blade factory is no more. They disappeared some six – eight months ago.

2. “the CCO reiterates that the right location for the IU Medical School can be identified by proper use (as opposed to gaming the inputs) of a GIS system?”

   For anyone who would like a primer on GIS, check it out:

   http://www.esri.com/what-is-gis

   For Evansville, go to evansvillegis.com

   This is a very specific, detailed and most importantly, unbiased research tool.

3. What. I hope this isn’t true. If so, why didn’t Debbie Dewey, President of Gage inform County Commission and City Council that Windmill Factory is no more.

   Here we go again–looks like another back room political coverup.

   How much of our tax dollars were spent on this pie in the sky venture? Where is the Courier and Press when we need them?

   Thanks CCO for bringing this issue to light.

4. Is it true that Warrick County Commissioners have serious storm water discharge and conveyance problems to address before locating another major medical facility at or anywhere near the intersection of the Lloyd Expressway and Epworth Road?

   Is it true that Howard Ditch, the major ditch that drains the Lloyd and Epworth area, is insufficient to handle any more excess storm water from the expansive hard surfaces that will be created as part of another major medical center? That you can only store a very limited quantity of excess storm water in detention basins dug into a very low elevation flood plain in the Epworth Road area and generally across eastern Warrick County along Howard Ditch, which is even lower in elevation than the adjacent flood plain in Vanderburgh County?

   Is it true that the Warrick County Commissioners have long blamed Vanderburgh County for log jams in Pigeon Creek for Warrick County’s drainage problems, even though the majority of logs and other debris that comprise the jams originate in Warrick County as a result of imprudent activity along the banks of the creek in their county?

   Is it true that for many decades Warrick County Commissioners have studied, contemplated, talked, but not moved forward with digging a drainage canal from the intersection of the Lloyd Expressway and Epworth Road, south along the county line to carry excess storm water into the Ohio River rather than running the same storm water thru the insufficient Howard Ditch by circuitously routing thru Pigeon Creek?

   Is it true that until the Warrick County Commissioners progressively address the negative drainage issues associated with their “prime location” at the Lloyd Expressway and Epworth Road that the better locations for the IU Medical Center remain in Vanderburgh County and the City of Evansville, particularly the locations served by superior storm water drainage facilities?

   • Correction: “… you can only store a very limited quantity of excess storm water in detention basins dug into a very low elevation flood plain in the Epworth Road area and generally across [WESTERN] Warrick County along Howard Ditch, which is even lower in elevation than the adjacent flood plain in [EASTERN] Vanderburgh County?

     • Stormy; Freebie here. What you note: Is true, and the problem is also true.
       That is that both systems are included in the Ohio river drainage basin,which in turn has negative input effects in concern to Climate Change and global warming.
       Its what the EPA is after by direction of the standards of the past and present clean water acts.
       Now the directives from the POTUS Climate Change plan June 2013.

       ” That is why an program that addresses and controls both issues Builds,controls and sustains solutions that apply to the storm water run off and the CSO problems from all the cause points in the metro drainage signature.” (plan)
       “This is an multiple state issue,centralization to smallish applications is only incremental in the whole unit cause.
       Thinking presently and politically is just what is in fact hindering the solution being applied federally.
       To solve the problem work on the problem as the whole unit it actually is.” (plan)
       “Pigeon,and all its tributaries man made or natural are cause points forward. Restructuring and controlling the incremental inputs adapts to the needs of the demands in the whole of the basin. Start with GIS and take a look,its a very large basin and does include many counties,that’s an State Southwestern Indiana issue,and when those become sourced out to the Ohio drainage basin its federal controlled issue by the Army Corps of Engineers….”point to cause”.”(plan)

       “The rebuild of the flood control system now going on should be extended and engineered to encompass a plan that controls the Pigeon creek flood basin and run off from I-64 south.”(plan)

       “The plan is easily engineered and would drive some huge numbers in contract construction industries that would employ the work force needed to build and maintain environmental structure adaptations. “Your metros a laid off surface mine industry is standing labor already trained to make the improvements That’s industries blending forward,and good jobs.” (plan)

       “Added infrastructure and transportation logistics enable you to have positive commerce numbers and overall metro Employment growth moved forward.
       The planet didn’t draw the borders man did,and mankind also can fix the issues.”(plan)

       “Solutions,movement,balance”.

       “Fugit inreparabile tempras”

       “Irretrievable time flies” (Virgil)

       • V~/=R, while you always go into depth about the bigger pollution and climate change picture, what I’m speaking to simply is the local storm water discharge issues in terms of rate of total volume and rate of discharge rather than water quality and pollution content.

         Clean Water Act standards for the gross volume of storm water run-off or its pollutant content discharged from new construction of a medical center in Evansville, Vanderburgh County, Warrick County, and Newburgh are regulated separately and differently from combined sewer overflow, industrial point discharge, agricultural pollutant discharge, or climate change issues.

         I’m just pointing out that the major ditch and its tributaries draining the Warrick County development area around the Lloyd Expressway and Epworth Road is insufficient to handle the volume of excess storm water that would be discharged from a large, new medical center. And that’s even if the medical center site employed detention basins to control the rate of discharge. This is due to natural land grades in the area that are so far down in the flood plain that the detention basins would begin discharging or overflowing long before they had retained sufficient excess water to prevent increased downstream flooding.

         Additionally, the water table in the area is very close to the surface, and would affect the normal low pool of the detention basins, further limiting their storage capacity, especially in wet seasons.

         Also, the new, higher grade of Epworth Road and Oak Grove Road improvements, along with the culvert sizes carrying Howard Ditch and its tributaries that drain the possible construction sites, may prove to be limiting factors that will restrict speedy conveyance of the volume of new increased run-off generated by further development in that area. That’s why Warrick commissioners need to dig a canal directly south to the Ohio River.

         So, all in all, what I was pointing out is that a downtown Evansville location, or a location between Burkhardt and Cross Pointe Blvd. may prove more practical as locations for the med center, because those locations are served by improved and superior drainage facilities which in fact can convey a larger volume of storm water run-off more quickly and directly to either Pigeon Creek and the Ohio River, and by a shorter and less obstructed route than from the Lloyd – Epworth area of Warrick County.

         • Some what true,however as it exists today,very little in improvements can change things for every site you have mentioned.
           Benefits for an area as an metro should be developed as a whole unit rather than a closed unit development plan. Maybe? What has taken place formerly in that respect doesn’t work today forward. The pudding has proof all over it every heavy rain event.
           Neither locations sewers access management systems with the present infrastructure can handle the CSO issues or drainage and flood control as they are in place today with or without a medical center complex.
           So.. In preparation for that. What would be the present plan to adapt for climate change issues presented by the addition?
           Just tell the people the situation. There is no plan or is there? What is presently in place to handle any of the water or infrastructure issues forecast to be the needs of design for an expansion location chosen that is able to meet federally backed climate change specifications forward?
           With the additions your purposing such as a medical center infrastructure seems the plan would be ready to implement.
           Warrick cannot create flood canals to the Ohio basin until the effects are studied and planned and acted upon by the Basin management authority.
           “Simply put” your metro basin management IS incrementally responsible for ALL its run off to the basin district,in reference to the Clean Water Act,and that’s measurable impact on Global Climate Change directives.(fines)
           Why botch the next chance.
           So.

5. Why didn’t the Mayor inform city council about the Windmill Factory leaving Evansville? He is a member of the GAGE Board of Directors and Executive committee. I get it, this wouldn’t be another PR photo opt for him. Shameless!

   Gage needs to go. This organization is another drain on the taxpayers.

   • It’s starting to look like Evansville has a problem with the above-ground sewer known as the Civic Center, as well as the literal, below-ground ones. It won’t cost the tens, most likely, hundreds of millions to fix the Civic Center, just an electoral-cleaning. Of course, it has already cost us a lot of money.
     Has anyone up-dated the City Council on the status of the McCurdy project? I think that bears some scrutiny, along with the proposals offered on the IU Medical School.

   • How many good jobs went by the wayside during this Weinzapfel fellows time in office there in Evansville? History is important to those expending resources for start-up.
     Is that why you have the GAGE organization in Your area?
     How many creditable businesses and jobs have they brought to your area?

     What replaces the overall commerce revenue from the total, one verses the other past and present going back say 15 years?
     What are the counties total unemployment numbers per district now using the same data base.
     From the outside, and having a business concept that takes on and addresses all aspects of noted climate change issues.
     Having developing plans for a Science,engineering and technical supply and support staff start up business. This might be some useful information the CCO should get out there for businesses searching locations.

     Having a section for that exact purpose in the CCO offering could only help local forecasting and employee numbers. Updated at least per/week…(Your own gauge so to speak.)

     Use Work One as one resource.Then unemployed verses working full time with benefits populations,assistance programs,courts, student populations, and part time transient work force numbers and those without benefits. Total work force available.

     “An real forecasting overlay using updated GIS” per your local districts available online. Highlighting just what locations in certain local districts have with the employee support “standing available” for start up and training would be useful.
     Unabashed, using real locations and real numbers, less the political inputs.
     Infrastructure support for logistical transportation commerce global availability,and updated service features available for local future utilities support for advanced growth in the overall Carbon foot print profiles moved forward.
     Four cornered transportation for logistical support moved ahead / per other available locations should be on a forecast with attainable numbers.
     Start up business plan does include advantages in service applications for open end growth forward in applicable advanced site infrastructure.

     Research shows your area is at some disadvantage for moving forward concerning good working infrastructure to support this expanding rapidly evolving plan base.
     In compared to other close by access points the access is limited in the districts that are redevelopment type enterprise focus points.
     Work on that for attraction,preparation is a positive watermark attraction in some cases.

6. The mayor wants IU downtown (which I can not see it going downtown)… So I’m sure he will try his best to get it downtown – – and at the end of day, he will cause us to lose IU!! I hope I’m wrong..

   • I hope you’re wrong, but it looks more like you are right. Why isn’t the public being told what the proposal consists of? It must be shameful, just like the original hotel plan.

   • A Downtown location for the IU Med Center has the advantage of requiring less square footage of land for the entire campus. The other locations mentioned so far will require substantially more acreage due to requirements for surface parking, drainage, and detention facilities. Acreage is money up front, and on the back end for landscaping, maintenance, etc.

     • “Retention facilities”,Time based, level staged, water releases per design standards.
       Detention basins no.

   • How will the mayor wanting the IU medical school downtown cause us to lose it?

     Maybe you haven’t followed this story for a while, but IU’s own study concluded that downtown was the best place for the medical school.

     So, yes, you are wrong.

     • I know about the original statement, but I can’t help but wonder what kind of logic led to that conclusion. All one needs to do is look at what is missing from downtown, and take a look at the Courier’s “Crime Map” in order to see there is something wrong here.

     • If there are only proposals for downtown and Warrick County submitted, and Warrick is chosen over downtown, that’s how. I just think we should submit some alternatives.

     • The one factor I have not seen discussed about a location for IU med school is placement close to patient availability and patient need. Depending what phase of schooling is being taught and practiced one may not see patients in a hospital at all. Family Practice, Public Health, Peds, First 8.75+ months of OB, etc. I sincerely hope that these med students are available to see patients who need them financially. People with restricted incomes, the elderly, people who currently utilize the ER for the flu and much more. I believe that this med campus needs to be close to the majority of the public it will serve. The face of medicine is changing and we need get a solid grasp of where IU is headed with this campus. I am not sure that the monied in Evansville have a clue about the structure of medical education.

       For the former poster, med students can really live anywhere in Evansville because one place in town is close to any other place in town. Evansville is not a large place. So placing the school next to shops, entertainment, etc that was previously mentioned is a non-issue.

       UI will look at the place which provides the school the best location for student learning and experience. Period

7. In regard to this incident, George Madison Jr. did not behaved like a fireman or a minster or a citizen should have behaved. When a police officer tells you to do something–like– put down the phone– you are expected to do it. Somehow George believed he was above the law. He acted as if he did not have to pay any attention to the police officers on the scene–I am calling the Chief Bolin!

   He was no victim of misbehavior by the police department. He needs to learn from this experience and move on. He is setting a bad example for our youth. Grow up George and be a leader and set a good example as you said you would.

   • Putting down the phone would be an overall solution to everybody’s problems concerned, victim or not, bub. Put down yours.

     yeah I didn’t think so.

     • Raptor-If a police officer tells you to put down the phone, I suggest you do it. I will be, if told to do so by a police officer.

       • Gil: My phone device provides and records me enough useful information in such an situation, “in my pocket or out.”
         So I only scoff at your biased comment,cooperation with an LEO is certainly expected by any citizen while encountering an traffic stop situation.
         What happens prior to the stop is what is in question from what I read. And that’s all I read because of,that is what has been reported.
         This incident was regrettable from what I have seen,however that is the point “from what I have seen.” I really don’t know who did what so my opinion on that, is there.
         I really have no “nEEd to kNOw” either.
         Here’s an example for you Gil, “Your an political insider”,why? Because I just assume that.
         All though,only by “the profile” represented by the majority of your biased comments. :0

8. GBT, Global Blade Technology, is gone? That really stinks. I was very excited about them coming when they announced it. I felt like it was a tremendous opportunity to repurpose the Old Whirlpool Building and establish a completely new identity for Evansville.

   Being a huge windmill city, like refrigerators previously, would have been a big accomplishment for this city. Back in the 80s, Knoxville, TN built a “Sunsphere” as the anchor for the World’s Fair and it has done wonders for them in their quest to bring the energy market (solar specifically) to their city. If Evv would have built a windmill shaped building like that with a bunch of start up clean energy companies at its base that would have created a lot of jobs and even attracted a bunch of tourists.

   But now, the only thing we are stuck with is the terrible memory of Mr. Frank Peterlin being denied the opportunity to construct 3 windmills with his own money in front of his own property due to archaic laws.

   Years come and go but it appears GAGE is still GAGE and Evansville is still Evansville.

   • So you think laws ensuring an adequate safety zone around windmills and other utility towers, to prevent parts falling onto nearby residences, are archaic and needless laws?

     • Parts falling? What is this chicken little? I definitely remember Dennis Conway addressing the stability of the three windmills. Iirc, I don’t even think an earthquake would have ripped them out. You’re more likely to drive into a telephone pole and be hit by it than any tower or windmill of any size.

       Yes, the laws are archaic and it’s not just here or even in just this region. Governments are slow to catching up with windmill technology. Putting these windmills in a category with 1,000 + towers is archaic. It needs to be fixed.

       • I agree the code under which windmills are regulated in Vanderburgh County is outdated. It was written for cell towers, and does not specifically address windmills, which have moving parts, large rotating blades.

         However, two things, there should be a safety zone between windmills or cell towers and adjacent residential dwellings. Agree? And two, the APC writes the zoning code upon which the BZA acts, and the APC offered Peterlin an opportunity to rewrite the tower code. He did not follow up on that offer. Agree?

         So, he missed his opportunity to place those three windmills on the Expressway, which he bizarrely portrayed in his testimony in front of the BZA as being comparable to the three crosses on Calvary Hill, for heaven’s sake!

         • Regulating the placement of windmills will ensure wind is never properly harnessed by private citizens on their own property.

           As a libertarian and a supporter of alternative energies, I support the rights of property owners to harness the power of the wind passing over their property and would never vote to infringe upon that right.

           We don’t regulate trees in the manner you described. We don’t say “any tree in danger of ever falling onto a neighbor’s property is illegal”. If it overhangs the property line, that’s one thing, but simply having a height greater than the distance to the property line is a ridiculous regulation, and I agree with Jordan. It’s archaic.

           We need to unleash the power of the little man to fight back against poorly regulated energy companies like Vectren, who can charge pretty much whatever they like without competition due to regulations against competing free energy sources and high tariffs placed on cheap technology imports.

           If not for government interference at virtually every level, we’d all probably be off the grid by now because wind and solar tech would be just as cheap as PCs have become.

       • Agree on the generic codes, agree on safety codes, and have no idea if/why there was a follow up between Mr. Peterlin and the BZA. I haven’t seen him since I ran into him at the Indy 500 last spring but I’m definitely going to ask him about it next time I see him. Maybe something could still be worked out.

         I’m working on a documentary on another project that’s going to be on here in a few weeks but after that’s finished I’m definitely going to dive farther into this issue to see what can be done. Appreciate it!

   • Also the way I remember it, Peterlin could have place the 3 windmills on his property south of the Expressway. It was zoned properly. It’s just that he couldn’t place them as close to nearby residential dwellings as he wished. Safety matters!

     Furthermore, I understand that APC let Peterlin submit proposed revisions to the code, but under his first draft that he wrote, he still would have been prohibited from placing the windmills at the spot he applied for. Then he never followed up with a finished version of a revised code.

     I bet if you have better ideas to revise archaic local zoning codes, the APC would be interested in reading them. It might even make a good CCO article. When drafting your suggestions, just keep in mind that safety matters.

     • Mr. Peterlin did want to place his windmills south of the Lloyd Expressway. I’m not sure where he could have moved them any farther away from the residential houses. He was going to place them in the median between John St. and his parking lot. They really weren’t even close to the houses. If he would have moved them to the far western median, they would have been staring down Jack Rogers’ who was the one opposed to them.

       It wasn’t the APC that objected, it was the Board of Zoning Appeals whose staff in is the offices of the APC. He went in front of them month after month before finally being voted down officially.

       “I bet if you have better ideas to revise archaic local zoning codes, the APC would be interested in reading them.”

       They’d read it and that would be about it. I wish someone with a lot of money from the windmill industry would put together and comprehensive list of revisements, advertised the plan heavily in front of the media and at local events, and then went head on with not just the APC but the city as a whole. Because if the city gov’t isn’t behind this, the APC never will. It was a complete waste of time for the university parkway development (majestic place) and the ball fields to go in front of the APC. There wasn’t a chance they were going to get voted down.

       If a situation like that were to arise, in similar fashion to what Morton Solar is doing with the solar industry, I would absolutely love to be a part of something like that.

       • No offense but it would have looked hideous. A city really does needs to worry about aesthetics for future growth.

         • BS. Aesthetics should never arbitrarily trump technological progress.

           It would be far more aesthetically pleasing not to see cell phone towers, utility poles, manhole covers, hell, STREETS for that matter, but they are all necessary blotches on the landscape of human advancement. We do not say, “Gee, I really hate the aesthetics of those light poles, let’s tear them all down and have no effing lights”.

         • Powering one or two private buildings is not technical progress. Placing them in the middle of a median for personal use is just goofy. Had someone wanted to line windmills all the way down the expressway or somewhere you may get a wow instead of a wth when seeing them. If aesthetics do not matter the historical society among other groups should close its doors.

         • Whatever: try the Gateways,along your southern eastern western,northern exposures to the Ohio river and Pigeon creek in low habitation flood control structures “such as levy slopes.” 🙂
           IT would look futuristic and advanced in sustainable Climate change applications for Carbon foot print solutions forward.
           Kind of have the look of a known progressive expanding Global trade location now building forward with billions of Euros, Rotterdam The Netherlands.

           “Attraction, purpose,environmental sustainability MOVED FORWARD.” *

           By the way it looks good too “real purpose organized”.

           “concordia res parvae crescent”

           “work together to accomplish more.”

   • Word for windmill energy Rails: “Netherlands” Google it. History proceeds forward 😉

     • Rails: You might note the Netherlands having an economy based on global trade is leading the charge in climate change adaptations not only with the wind and solar,they are rebuilding their port facilities for rising sea levels,The dikes and canal infrastructure there are also seeing vast improvements along with the same Climate Change adaptations.
       History repeats itself there “Dutch Trading Company”.
       They lead for a long time in growth focus by trade access.
       More less let everybody else fight over the real estate while they supplied the needs and made the money.

       Yeah, some things don’t change much. Others change “not so much”.

       • Ironically, GBT came from the Netherlands…

         http://www.evansvilleliving.com/business/articles/the-comeback

9. It is obvious that mayor Winnecke has no comprehension of numbers.

   The “dog park” was originally announced as having a projected cost of $10 to $13 million. Then the cost was projected to be $13 to 15 million. Now it has been reported to have a cost of $8 to 10 million.

   Steve Bagbey, while serving on the City Council, told me that he, personally, stated that he would never approve one cent to be spent on Roberts Stadium. What was the ultimate result? We know! A city asset WITH VALUE was razed.

   John Friend has indicated that he will strip ALL fundingfor the dOg park from the city budget. Don’t just talk about it, John, DO IT!

   If you look at the proposal, you will find that it follows a well work blue-print for local projects. Local government generally proposes something, but then ADDS features that double or quadruple the original plan.

   Much of what is included in the proposal for the doggie doo park is already in existence and is either poorly maintained or is maintained by the using groups. As an example, who maintains the baseball diamond at the entrance to Wesselman Park. I would wager that it is not the city parks department.

   But now the VOICES wants to add more green space. Yes, and I read that some of the input for the voices decisions comes from five year olds. Don’t we have a wonderful mayor following up on one equally wonderful?

10. I hope Mr. Madison does file a suit, and wins! If everyone in the city whos had their rights violated by the EPD did this it may get some things changed. As for the medical center, i hate to see positive developments not come to our city. But I also think it serves everyone in the civic center right if it goes to Warrick County. As a young lifelong citizen of Evansville, I’m ashamed and embarassed at the leadership, and the elitism that rules our town!

    • I think I am going for a bike ride and run stop signs until I get pulled over. I would gladly take a cussing and the threat of getting tased for $700,000.

    • What right was violated? He admitted to running the stop sign. He admitted to refusing to follow the officers instructions. He was not cussed, hit, or even ticketed.
      If we think people should get paid because someone hurt their feelings, then I have about 200 lawsuits to file.
      Look at what has happened since that day. The inner city has turned into a war zone. Black men have been shooting other black men like it is going out of style. How many of the black leaders have you heard from about that? NONE.
      Surely that is a bigger deal than a grown man saying he got his feelings hurt. But there is no money to be made by calling out their own folks.

11. Again, EPD costs the taxpayers with their cowboy attitudes.

    • Again, please tell us how much it has cost. You keep saying the same thing over and over, but you have not provided any actual amount.

    • Cowboy tactics are required for those who fail to follow proper protocol. A lot of police officers in larger cities feel it is safer not to enforce laws. We have police officers who still believe in law and order. There’s a segment of our society who believe they are above the law, that is exactly why they are over represented in the prison system. I support the Chief and the EPD. I would have been at the City Council meeting but knew it would be confrontational and dangerous if you made a comment favorable to the EPD. I saw the video and Mr. Madison was way out of line and there’s no allowable words to describe Connie Robinson. She is to be feared if her type represent our future leaders.

12. Is a victory in a civil court easier than a criminal court? I think he has a case.

    • Based on what? Just because you don’t like something or it hurt your feelings does not mean you are entitled to money. Madison is on record saying he ran the stop sign, he ignored the officer, and that the stop was not about race. What else is there? If you can sue the police for warning you that they will use force if you don’t comply with a lawful order, than you would have to be willing to allow police to use force without giving you a chance to change your behavior by choice.

13. Why worry about the IU Med Center. They will likely be
    frightened away by numerous factors such as rising
    sewer rates. Can you imagine how high the bill would
    be on such a facility even without a rate increase.

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