IS IT TRUE that the Mole Nation is telling us that a last minute twist is in the works that will cause tonight’s vote on the hotel agreement to be delayed for perhaps a month?…what we are hearing is that there are even more concessions being made by the developer, the Mayor’s office, and that even some local business leaders are tossing some of their money into the fire?…starting from the $37.5 Million giveaway and taking that further down to $31.5 Million that Mayor Winnecke was touting as the hot ticket on Friday it seems as though another $13 Million has magically appeared to take the bonded amount down to $18.5 Million by this writer’s math?…that may be enough of a reduction to capture the attention of some of the “RESPONSIBLE SIX” and interest them in listening to the newest iteration of this never ending saga of the downtown convention hotel?
IS IT TRUE that any deal that may make someone salivate really does still need to be VETTED including the return expected from the business leaders who are supposedly putting up $13 Million?…we have no information at this time as to whether this is a gift, shares are being purchased, bonds are being guaranteed, or just what the source of funds will be?…if this is indeed a gift simply because these leaders are generous citizens the question should arise about why they wouldn’t just do the whole deal and own it?…there is still much to learn about this new wrinkle and as positive of a move as this may sound like the bonded amount is now back to where the negotiations SHOULD HAVE STARTED?
IS IT TRUE that the one thing that comes out of this is just how unsophisticated and naiive the babbling hoard of beautiful people, the Mayor, and a couple of City Council members (Mosby, Weaver and McGinn) were when they were leading cheer to give away $37.5 Million?…just simple negotiating techniques backed up by arithmetic has reportedly taken nearly $20 Million of the risk to the taxpayers out of the deal and onto the backs of others?…the cheerleaders would have gladly handed over the $37.5 Million a month ago?…this civil war of the people of Evansville has already paid off to the tune of $20 Million and counting?…the City County Observer is pleased to have provided an open forum for discussion and will continue to do so FREE OF CHARGE?
IS IT TRUE that finally we would like to thank the Courier and Press for yesterday’s internet traffic?…not only were they the largest driver of traffic to the CCO but our Sunday pageviews were more than double any Sunday ever?
Wow, this makes Missy and Weaver look like absolute idiots. McGinn has just let himself be a party tool which is not like him at all.
True.
The puppetmasters do not want to see a big scam die so let us cut a new deal! The downtown could only be revived if a new 10-20 year plan with real planning were to take place. But instead we are left the with the fraud center, the center,dog park and ballfields. Hey how about we fix the sewers and roads first!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder who “got to” whom on the City Council. That could be a fascinating bit of information.
I can hardly wait to see who the locals willing to invest in the project are, and how much they’re willing to toss into it.
As to who the locals are, a couple of places to start would be Vectren and Donaldson Capital Mgt.. Just guessing of course, but follow the people on the Redevelopment Commission that have “links” to these firms.
That does make a lot of sense.
Missy and Weaver don’t just look like idiots, they have proven time after time they are idiots
Has anyone noticed the John Friend email which has gone out to all the city council members? I wonder if some of this magnanimous gift has come from Warrick County? Wake up people!!!
From my remarks on Facebook:
This process reminds us of negotiating with an organ thief, First he wants your heart. Then renegs to your lungs. Then to just one lung and a liver. Then your liver and a kidney. Then just your kidneys. Until finally we agree to let him take a single kidney, the appendix, and a couple of pinkies. Sure we will live. Sure it’s better than having no heart, but we are hardly celebrating.
This is still a huge subsidy and these people still seem VERY eager. KEEP NEGOTIATING! Let’s get this subsidy to zero. Throw in the Centre!
NO!… NO!… and … NO!
No, we will not cave to an un-vetted developer no matter how much booty is trimmed
No, we don’t need more time for backroom threats or promises to compromise our representatives
No, we don’t trust that the original deal won’t be incrementally restored over time
Hold the vote! Hold it tonight.
Vote this stinker down and face the future unbound by it. …
+1 It’s not just Mosby and Weaver who look like fools it’s the whole Weinzapful-Winneke alliance.
Excellent!
Thank you
There is such a “desperate” feel to this whole hotel venture. When things get this heated and passionate there is usually one main element involved and that is MONEY!
Several individuals, private business or other groups stand to personally profit from this hotel and it is NOT the City of Evansville, it’s citizens or even it’s builders. Some faces were beginning to become clear and now we have new ones emerging.
As the CCO stated…everyone and their motives must be investigated and vetted. I hope the truth comes out eventually.
I guess the people trying to save this dead horse are forgetting the Indiana code regarding bid processes. (Title 5 Chapter 7 IC5-22-7-7) Bids must be unconditionally accepted without altercation or correction.
If we want to change the parameters of the bid we will need to rebid the work.
Could someone please pass this info on the the city council and the mayor?
I wouldn’t be surprized if Ted Ziemer isn’t looking for a loophole to shove this through right this minute.
check the balance in the bond bank.
I don’t believe that Title 5 Chapter 7 applies to RFP’s or RFQ’s (which is why the City and County use them so much).
Laws!?? They don’t need no stinking laws!
Contracts, favors, influence peddling and kickbacks are at stake here man.
How could the cocktail party slap each other on the back and congratulate themselves on “progress”.
All of this hearsay must be presented to the public at the common council public meetings and an appropriate amount of time must be allotted to study all these new proposals before any sort of vote is scheduled.
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BTW, does that $18.5 million figure include the $5.+ million parking garage. If not, then this package does not look so good.
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My understanding is that the parking garage is still part of the deal.
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to Deceive”.–Sir Walter Scott
City Council,– Vote NO. Don’t fall for the 3-Card Monty this Administration and their Cronies are pushing.
Be True to yourselves and your Neighbors.
I just want to be SURE there is no vote tonight. I don’t think some of the people involved in perpetrating this con game are above trying to sneak it in. I just REALLY don’t trust Winnecke and team at all, anymore.
Good point. This is where someone like Ted can be of considerable utility to someone like Lloyd. It does seem like the public’s contribution to this project dropped rather precipitously in a very short period of time, throwing up red flags as it fell.
We need a hotel there. The way this has been handled should wake up the dead.
Well said. All trust with the public disappeared long ago. That whole River House saga has most definitely cast a dark cloud over this hotel project.
Welcome to the CCO my old CP friends. I had thought about creating another CP account today to say bye and hopefully part in peace, so I am glad you’re here. My peace to the both of you.
I am just not confident that if there is a vote it would be no. I like Joe Wallace’s idea of the center as the incentive, but as wow really said, it may not be legal to change this deal without starting over. This one needs to be rejected first.
Agreed Indianaenoch.
I must say, when I first heard of Joe’s give away the Centre idea I thought he was joking, then I thought he was a madman on the loose. But the more I hear about it, the more I seem to agree that it’s a very realistic and plausible idea (outside of factoring in chicago style politics here).
Really, the only thing I would look into before making such a move is to see what the deal is with the centre (i.e which part is loosing the most), see if anything can be done with it, and then make sure any contract requires it to stay open for at least the life of the hotel bonds. I would also hope that whoever would acquire ownership of it would keep SMG as its operator. They really do do a good job and the city has completely used them as a scapegoat on many of the city/county buildings that have been neglected.
Once that’s done, yea I see no reason it can’t be packaged with the hotel. Didn’t Bob Green build the Green Convention Center after failing to acquire the old convention centre?
Vote no
I agree with Bubbageek. Just say no and move on.
I am so sick and tired of this hotel dragging on and on and on. It’s wasting valuable media space for other projects that need to be front and center of good public policy debate. I can name 5 of the top of my head.
+1
Have anybody out there heard that a member of City Council may have been offered a $50,000 bribe to change their No vote to Yes?
If so, looks like it’s FBI time.
I heard the same thing early this morning. I too would like to know if anybody in CCO land can document this rumor.
You can hear all kinds of rumors. 99.9% of the time they are made up by bloggers trying to stir up action.
Here’s one question I have for the hotel supporters:
This plan is being touted as a must get for downtown. Yet, there is no master plan (well there is but the 01 master plan is being ignored) that calls for future capital improvement projects to surround it. In Lexington, Ky, they HAVE a master plan and they ARE planning to build a canal, a central park, ball fields, and a new convention center around a renovated Rupp Arena and hotel…
http://www.architecturelist.com/2013/02/15/masterplan-of-downtown-lexington-kentucky-by-jds-and-diana-balmori/
So my question comes down to this: How in the world does Evansville compete with that for conventions and visitors when we aren’t even close to building the 01 master plan that had a canal, a park, yada, yada, we aren’t building ball fields and other projects nearby downtown despite the perfect location being available, and we can’t even build a hotel for a reasonable cost (this is after we tore one down in a ridiculous manner).
How do we beat that? I just don’t see it.
We don’t beat it. We can’t even compete with it. Evansville is too small.
We need to have a hotel in that space, but it is folly to think we are going to get a share of the shrinking convention market.
Reduce the cost of the project, vet the developers, and build the hotel, so we can pursue what may well be Evansville’s best chance at surviving, in the form of the IU Medical School. Warrick Co. will give us a run for our money.
+1
It is in the best interest of Evansville for the City Council to approve the current Hotel plan tonight.
The deal is better due to a lot of hard work my several people on both sides of the issue.
1) 75% plus of the Evansville citizens support the Hotel
2) The labor community fully supports the hotel
3) The vast majority of the business people in the Evansville area fully support the hotel.
4) A Convention Hotel will enhance immensely the odds of the IU Med Center being located downtown. We need to do both.
5) The local news media strongly support the hotel project.
6) The majority of the County Council sand County Commissioners support the Hotel
City Council members— please look at the facts of the proposal as they are today and vote yes. It is the right thing to do for our great City..
Poppycock, why don’t you take this opportunity to turn your mind on. You foolishly wanted to give away $37.5 M and now its down to $20 M. Your credibility is shot. By the way is it legal for campaign funds to be used to lobby a taxing authority? I hear Winnecke is paying for the WNIN ads with campaign funds. That is not legal sir.
It was a good deal at $37.5 million. The current arrangement is even better.
And you said it couldn’t be reduced, that this was the best deal we were going to get. People will remember that.
And that’s no thanks to you Wayne. It’s thanks to people like Brad Linzy and Phillip Schulz. $37.5 million was not a good deal and it is still not right to fund this project with the inn keeper’s tax. It is also good that the vote was tabled for a week. You called for a vote tonight.
So the Mayor’s stock may be up a bit with his amazing end run, but, your stock has not went up. I am still a conservative, but far less of a republican than I was. You were on the wrong side of history.
$32M borrowing add $6M for legal and underwriting fees
equals $38M
$38M at 4% for 25 years equal $2.432M/year in interest and principal payments
$2.432/year less $800k in RE taxes equals $1.632M
67% occupancy times 250 rooms times 365 equals $61,100/year
$1.632M/year divided by $61,100/year equals $26-27 per conventioneer per day for 25 years.
Innkeepers tax is 8%. You’ll get $8/head/night.
Where is the other $18/day going to come from?
The food and beverage tax is 1% if I’m not mistaken.
So people are going to spend $1800/day on food??
To the items listed:
1. Prove that statement (you can’t without a referendum)
2. DUH! With the Mayor’s help, they get work handed to them on a silver platter that they don’t have to compete for (PLA’s). Featherbedding will be rampant.
3. Again, prove that.
4. Not a chance in hell, unless the Mayor “donates the farm” to them.
5. Who cares what the local news media thinks.
6. Another good reason to vote NO!
“great City” – hasn’t been for years. Has been on life support for a long time.
Where have you been? I standby all of my points.
What are you doing to improve are City?
The recent developments have cost you a lot of credibility, and you need to recognize that fact, Wayne.
elkaybee: The fact is recent developments have substantially improved my credibility with Vanderburgh County voters.
The Mayor’s stock has gone up big time. It is off the chart!
Your credibility has gone up with the union folks and the liberal tax and spend without vetters, but it has sunk to all time lows with real fiscal conservatives. You wanted to give away $17.5 million MORE dollars.
You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting a deal that was made $17.5M better over a weekend. I bet when you were a kid, you wanted to eat dessert without finishing your meal first and you Mom caved.
These numbers are pure speculation! If not, print the source.
PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT WNIN 88.3 FM PUBLIC RADIO WILL BE PROVIDING LIVE AUDIO FOR THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING TONIGHT BEGINNING AT 5:30 !!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE THANK OUR PUBLIC RADIO STATION FOR THIS SERVICE.
Cass Herrington from WNIN in particular needs to be thanked.
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