IS IT TRUE September 16, 2013
IS IT TRUE the revelation that came this weekend that HCW imposed absolute restrictions on any financial information that they chose to release was to be kept from the eyes and ears of the Evansville City Council and even the Office of the Mayor under a legally binding obligation took nearly everyone by surprise?…the expectation was for an extended negotiation period on what was to be released and attempts by the City Attorney to minimize the VETTING would be followed by a two week period of VETTING just as City Councilman John Friend asked for was what would eventually have happened?…the expectation based on some time doing independent searches was that HCW as a company and the founders of that company would VET well and that the only real depth after giving them the green light would be the deal itself?…what a difference a refusal to comply makes?
IS IT TRUE that we hope this makes each and every person in Evansville realize that the Mayor and the Evansville Redevelopment Commission supported this without this information or so much as a credit check and a background check?…this is EARTHCARE PART 2?…there is no hiding from the utterly incompetent way this was passed and presented to the people of Evansville?…if this was a private business seeking money from widows and orphans or even people of means this would very possibly be sufficient lack of oversight to constitute charges?…in the world of tax dollars the same rules don’t apply so it will likely pass of as just another attempt to let SNEGAL run wild in Evansville?…it is hard to believe the powers that be learned nothing from the dozen eggs on their face from the Earthcare Energy fiasco?
IS IT TRUE this refusal to supply the financial information requested as HCW has according to Crowe-Horwath makes the entire VETTING exercise moot?…by taking this position of “We’ll take your incentive for $25.4 Million for the hotel and parking garage, and by God we are not going to show you anything of a financial nature that your Finance Chairman has asked for†HCW has disqualified themselves from consideration?…anyone whether it be Mayor Winnecke, any member of the Evansville City Council, the Evansville Redevelopment Commission, the union supporters of this project, or the society page beautiful people of Evansville who is willing to fork over more than $25 Million to a company whose ownership will not so much as allow the kind of information that is customary to finance a car has a serious deficiency in their cognitive abilities?…let’s hope and encourage the supporters of this deal to take this opportunity to do what they had to do with the Earthcare Energy fiasco and retract their support for this developer period?…there is no reason to spend any time or money to VET this project and it is time to schedule this drawn out unvetted nightmare on MLK for a vote at the soonest possible time?…there is no logical reason whatsoever for this not to fail by a margin of 9 – 0 and lots of people in the support camp need to get on their knees and offer an apology and thanks to each and every skeptic who supports VETTING public projects as a bank does?
IS IT TRUE this deal for the same reasons that the Earthcare Energy deal was exposed as a farce should be the last straw when it comes to allowing the City of Evansville to even propose projects and make announcements without a professional VETTING process and 3rd party company on retainer?…this is the last strike, this is the coup de gras, and a real process needs to be in place and it needs to be there now?…there should be no discussion of so much as a nickel of public money going into anything that is not basic infrastructure related until a VETTING process is in place and approved?…this latest twist in what hopefully will be the last fiasco is an intervention opportunity for a local government gone stark raving mad over a 10 year period?…if the people of Evansville and the cognizant members of the City Council do not do something about this the Evansville does not “deserve†a hotel as the supporters have asserted, it deserves the fate that awaits when the mimicking of Detroit plays itself out in River City?
IS IT TRUE the CCO calls upon each and every elected official and their appointed surrogates to use this opportunity to right the ship before it crosses the point of no return?…this hotel may not have been enough to sink the ship but the irresponsible rotten policies that enabled this 4th unmitigated disaster to proceed and the Earthcare Energy debacle to unfold are enough to render even the very best of cities to irrelevance?…this is yet another opportunity to heal a 50 year old wound?…we truly hope that our local leadership has the brainpower and the courage to make that happen?
According to the 14 News report last night, the Mayor is not prepared to throw in the towel yet on HCW. 14 News says they got a statement from the Mayor’s office and City Attorney Ted Ziemer is still “in talks” with Crowe – this despite the fact that Crowe has made it clear their position now in multiple emails.
If the Mayor continues in this Quixotic pursuit, he will damage his credibility further. This is political capital he just doesn’t possess right now.
http://www.14news.com/story/23438190/councilman-says-city-is-unable-to-continue-hotel-project
The clowns,cronies and conmen will say sorry we were caught lets push this deal to the very end!! Winnecke and Parke say DERP this is a great deal we want the payday because we the clowns deserve it!
rk812–It is to bad that Crowe Horwath withdrew from the review process regarding the convention hotel project. Way to much is being made of their withdrawal.
The project should continue to move forward. It is the right thing for our City. Keep in mind that it was John Fried that wanted Crowe Horwath to do this vetting work. Why I do not know. They are a CPA firm but have no experience in reviewing third party financial evaluations between Cities and private third party participants. Obviously it was a mistake and has wasted valuable time.
An experience qualified firm needs to be selected ASAP. They will find that HCW is a solid company and willing to provide the necessary info to a qualified firm.
Wayne you like the mayor just want to give away too much of the peoples money. If this was not going to be a money loser others would have jumped on the deal in the first three attempts! Too much debt for no return on investment!
What are the facts that back up your comment?
Look at the money being given away to attract more debt for the taxpayers! Get real man!
To the City Council: Let’s assume the deal is dead. Who among you now will step up as a leader to invite new bidders and jump start the process now? Will you invite John Dunn and other locals to be among the bidders? What is the maximum percentage of subsidy for which a majority of the council members will vote yes to incentivize a convention hotel? What sort of package deal would you cobble together to attract a hotel developer to downtown Evansville? How long is it acceptable to the City Council for the land at MLK and Walnut to lay vacant?
it is not the councils job to start this process, its up to the mayor. the council just has to figure out if the taxpayers are getting screwed( which they are).
I asked several questions other than the single issue to which you responded. The answers to those questions would indicate what sort of deal would pass muster with the City Council. What good will it do, without definite guideposts from the Council, for the Mayor, DMD, or ERC to initiate another bidding process only to have it torpedoed by quibbling, squabbling, grandstanding, or nitpicking over the details of the deal?
People have been working on this for a long time and if you will really read what the facts are, this deal currently on the table is just fine. Although long, please read the whole Hunden report.
Yes, please read the Hunden Report.
All very good questions, important questions.
But why don’t we back up a step here and look at a this from comprehensive planning point of view?
For the last 20+ years Evansville’s city planning has been catch as catch can, like a foraging animal looking for whatever it can catch or graze upon. That’s why we have so much urban sprawl and downtown blight.
What’s the future of the West Side and USI expansion?
How will the North side and the County be affected by the coming link of I-69? What’s the 10-15 year expectation of the Toyota Plant? what to do with the airport and the Old Whirlpool building? How can we better coordinate the growth of the East side with proper public planning and green space? What the’s priority of the plans? (Sewers should be #1 IMO) and And YES what is the plan for downtown?
How much will it cost overall? It should address all the stuff we’ve discussed for umpteen years. Brain drain, lack of venture capital etc. It should be put to a referendum and voted upon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah no matter what plan you put together there will be always be a group who oppose it, but that is what leadership is about. Say what you want about Dr. Bertram but that is exactly what he did for EVSC. He developed a master plann submitted it to the public. He got the pulbic feedback and made the necessry adjustments, got the buy in and got the referendum passed, and now we are reaping the benefits.
You can’t just leave this to the vagaries of the free market, unless you just like more urban sprawl and an ever expanding downtown blight. It has to be a coordinated effort by both the public and private sector.
Businesses would be more attracted to Evansville because they know what the plan is and would be more willing to move here and commit capital.
Unions/Labor would benefit because they also could stop beating the drums for “jobs” because they would know what the next public works project would be.(BTW how many jobs would be created fixing the sewers? A TON I would say)
The public would benefit from knowing what the master plan is and not be suspicious that a project is being taken on because somebody’s palms are being greased.
That’s what real leader would do. Mr. Mayor are you listening?
In an article in yesterday’s C&P, Kunkel says that nearly all the Whirlpool space has been leased.
Big Pappa. The old whirlpool plant on Hwy 41 looks like an roof shingle depot,doesn’t look very vanguard technical. Probably pays the bills?
For an Metro gateway presentation “not so much”.
“…Yeah, yeah, yeah no matter what plan you put together there will be always be a group who oppose it, but that is what leadership is about. Say what you want about Dr. Bertram but that is exactly what he did for EVSC. He developed a master plann submitted it to the public. He got the pulbic feedback and made the necessry adjustments, got the buy in and got the referendum passed, and now we are reaping the benefits….” Brains Benton
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Brains:
If you knew the truth it would not look quite so rosy to you.
Bertram’s plan was excessive, as anyone can witness today. The Vanderburgh County Taxpayers Association called him on it and filed a petition of remonstrance against the plan. Bertram backed out of the petition and remonstrance process and by doing so was not allowed, by Indiana statute, to submit a similar plan for another year.
In violation of that statute he was able to place the same plan (question) on the ballot only 3 months later.
Even so, he was not allowed to use the school corporation’s funds to promote the plan, or give printed material to students calling for a yes vote, or place signs on school property advocating a yes vote.
Bertram’s friends at the Evansville Regional Business Committee, who probably hatched the plan with him, wrote him a check for $21,000. to put Grey Loon to work on a slick promotional campaign, and the usual lineup of donors with a financial interest in the proposed project were only too eager to help finance the promotional campaign.
Do not get the impression that people were against some improvements being made at EVSC. That is not the case. It was the absolutely over the top plan which made no attempt at fiscal responsibility that was objected to, and in fact Bertram was also touting this as a jobs plan for union labor, and of course private businesses, during a time when the country was experiencing a downturn in the economy.
Lost in all the hoopla was the bottom line of what the effect of all of this spending would be on the academic performance of the school corporation’s students.
As it turns out, we have not gotten much bang for or bucks in that department, as shiny new buildings are a poor substitute for educational instruction.
The project will be costing taxpayers for many years to come, and costing them dearly as over half of most people’s property tax bills go to the EVSC, while at the same time EVSC is currently seeking an additional appropriation to their construction (Capital Projects) budget.
It seems that education must take a back seat to EVSC’s role as an economic engine for the area.
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Agreed: With your post B.B. An effort to solve the most urgent of infrastructure problems will most likely be driven by Bio technical science,engineering and its solutions applied to each area of the social economic impact.
You can do that right here in metro Evansville. The jobs needed and created by these advancing steps moving forward will likely determine an areas incremental recovery period in achieving an overall social well being and life quality.
Elevated revenues created by commerce related to the improvements usually find an way to set that trend in the realm where applications are set forth.
Building positive incremental progress moving forward tends to show increased revenue in commerce trending through the blending of themes and metro planning.
The educational system drivers available to these concepts in your region should be enough to steer good numbers in Arts & Entertainment in an concept that applies the methodology curve of increasing student populations.
This has already proven to be an good downtown focus in other locations across the nations sustained forward growth regions.
“If you are not an destination,you have to create an destination”. An concept that sustains forward numbers in return commerce.
You do have plenty of positives in that respect. Student populations move forward upon completion of education to do so. This provides an avenue for incoming new trending with each student population cycle.
Having the commerce in place to retain them is what an area grows forward with.
Retention of that said population in advanced sciences is driven by the graduate employment available in an area as defined.
Skilled trades are needed to apply and maintain/sustain advanced concepts. It all simply adds up to commerce created to support needed improvements in any given area of location.
Brains Benton–Somethings are as obvious as the nose on your face. One does not need a long expensive report to tell everybody we need a hotel downtown that will attract new dollars to our City. The Hunden report deals with this issue. Please read all of it.
No they are NOT obvious as evidenced by the long list of cities who have invested heavily in convention centers and adjacent hotels that are absolutely losing their backsides on.
What Next–This project is not dead. The only real thing that really happen was Crowe Horwath withdrew from the review process. As indicated above, they have not done this type of work before. HCW is willing to share required information to a qualified firm.
John Dunn had a chance. Apparently he did not want to build a full service hotel that is absolutely required to attract conventions to our City.
A lot of people who oppose the hotel are telling 1/2 truths or flat not telling the truth. Please review all printed material and not just commenter’s statements.
50 % of all convention hotel builders get 100% public financing. The average participation done by other Cities is 60%. It may be hard to accept, but the HCW offer is an acceptable one.
Dunn as a person who has made a living in hotel business maybe he sees it for what it is a money losing venture!
rk812–Dunn is a businessman who specializes in hotels that are not full service. Dunn does not oppose a downtown hotel. He does not want public financial participation. A hotel will not be built if that is the case. He has ask for public participation in other hotel deals he has been involved in in the past. Any investment has some risk.
Live for today, my friends. Not a care in the world. The 5th time will be the charm for this Hotel. Maybe we could even call it ‘ The Fifth Dimension Hotel ?
Hopefully, Round # 5 will be a part of the IU Medical School, and private equity will take care of it.
Can’t wait to hear from the Mayors puppet Wayne Parke concerning this issue.
Please read my comments in this CCO piece.
Most of what you said is DERP!
During the 8 years of the former administration it appears that the city executive and the Evansville Regional Business Committee sat at the top and hatched the plans.
The Evansville Redevelopment Commission, controlled by the city’s executive’s ability to appoint a majority of its members, acted as the vetting entity for the plans, which were approved before the ERC ever saw them. There was no reason for the ERC to vet anything. They understood that their job was to add an official stamp to the plan and send it on to the Evansville Common Council, which with a 8 to 1 democrat majority, could be depended upon to pass.
The structure is still in place and even though we are seeing some occasional visible signs of brain activity out of some council members, the super majority has until now been able to produce the “correct” vote when the names are called.
Evansville can do better than this. Much better.
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Pressanykey–This project has been vetted/reviewed by experts. It will get further vetted as the process moves to the next steps. This is an acceptable deal for Evansville and I do not think we can do better.
Acceptable to whom? Are you just a con man?
He is a closet democrat. Who is bound and determined to help the city throw big money at a losing project we will be paying for years to come. You cannot bring the dead back to life aka downtown Evansville. When the riverfront was given away to Vectren and Fifth Third and the Fraud Center built In the heart of downtown not on the riverfront Evansville(the rivercity) loses!
Winnecke is either incredibly stupid or he’s unabashedly crooked. Maybe both?
I’m going with both.
You are wrong.
No we are the taxpayers!
If the investors that purchased the old EVSC Administration building convert it into a hotel, the problem is solved without giving away millions of taxpayer dollars.
Looks like we’re about ready to free up $37 million for a nice McCurdy renovation.
no telling with this bunch
In an article in the Courier & Press, Ben Kunkel stated that Earthcare Energy is renting space in the old Whirlpool plant.
How can this be if this deal was reported as cancelled by the Mayor’s Office and city council ?
Is it true that Springleaf Fiancial is quietly selling mortgage backed securities to the Federal Reserve per Ben Bernanke’s mortgage-backed bond-buying program to rid itself of toxic sub-prime mortgage debt at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer ?
I wonder how many people, both locally and nationally would feel if they knew their tax dollars were being use to bail out a sleezy consumer finance company who charges 35% interest rates to people who often don’t realize what they are getting themselves into ?
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