IS IT TRUE it was extremely obvious at last night’s City Council meeting that people in attendance were on both sides of the issue concerning building a downtown Convention Center Hotel?…we were impressed with how 7 out of 9 City Council listened and ask intelligent questions concerning this issue? …we believe that those 7 of 9 council members are open minded about how to fund this major capital project in a responsible manner or not to?… we were stunned to see City Council members Weaver and Mosby wear a sticker supporting a building a new downtown Convention Hotel during the meeting?…it looks like Weaver and Mosby have made up their mind without having all the financial facts given to them?…the unlearned pair are seemingly committed to ignore the VETTING that has finally started before they make up their minds on this issue? ….that Ms. Mosby’s soon to be announced primary competition has documented her political behavior on this issue this evening?…he told his supporters this evening about what a great TV ad this shall make?
IS IT TRUE that it was also obvious to everyone in the room that there were many union members in attendance wearing their colors in support of the project?…they also have their minds made up based on self interest as opposed to what is the best thing for all residents of the City of Evansville?…of course we all understand that jobs are important but public works jobs need to be for things that are priced fairly and are beneficial to everyone who pays taxes and not just a couple of hundred union members?…there are plenty of necessary jobs on basic infrastructure like the EPA mandated sewer projects to keep the trade unions of Evansville in work for many years?…it is disappointing to see our friends and neighbors wear the buttons of “what’s in it for me†without knowing anything about the financial value of the project?
IS IT TRUE that the claims by Mayor Winnecke that this hotel will be hiring 200 permanent employees needs to be examined for sanity?…that 200 jobs that average $10 per hour plus benefits and social security taxes will generate a payroll of roughly $5.6 Million per year?…that if one were to assume a rate of $100 per night and 60% occupancy that the 253 rooms can be expected to take in revenue of $5.5 Million over the entire year?…that is less that just the payroll without accounting for utilities, maintenance, replacement of fixtures, etc.?…this simple bit of math is why the claims of 200 – 250 permanent jobs are simple pulled from the hip and not based on any realistic financial projections?…Hotel News Now a trade publication for hotels did a study of 5,100 hotels nationwide to learn what the payroll expense for hotels really is for well managed properties?…for this region that number is 25% to 30% for mid range properties?…in the case of this hotel and its assumptions we can expect a payroll expense of about $1.65 Million?…that will be enough to employ between 55 and 65 equivalent full time jobs?
IS IT TRUE that another little back of the envelope calculation will put some sense of reality on the claims that 800 construction jobs will be created by this project?…if one uses a two year completion time and the $75 Million budget this equates into $37.5 Million per year?…if a labor content of 35% is used as is advised by several publications on estimating hotel construction that leaves a labor budget of $13.1 Million per year?…at a burdened hourly rate of $40 per hour one would arrive at 32,800 hours of labor in each year’s budget?…that works out to 6,310 hours per week or 1,262 hours per day?…at 8 hours per day we can expect between 150 and 160 full time equivalent jobs from this construction project?…this is all really just simple arithmetic but our elected officials just can’t seem to grasp it?…we wonder are they lying or are they just numerically inept?
Heard last night from extremely credible sources that individuals in the Winnecke administration are quietly lobbying members of City Council to replace John Friend as City Council Budget Chairmen for next year. Looks like Mr. Friend has final got the attention of the spend and tax crowd of the Winnecke puppets and want to shut him down.
Keep up the great work on behalf of the taxpayers of this community Councilmen Friend.
Great work? The city goes for months without balancing it’s books and runs a major construction project without financial oversight under the previous administration only a new mayor gave us a heads up about it?
I would think that a CPA Budget Chairman would be able to spot that along with many other troubling things that are only being cleaned up now that a new Mayor is in town.
Friend dropped the ball for years and now is flailing around trying to make himself relevant. Too little, too late.
I think Mr. Friend has been fighting for years for accuracy and accountability..to what end?? obviously he is not getting his questions answered and no wonder this administration wants him removed. Not to take away from prior council members but who has “stepped to the plate?” In my opinion, “too little too late?” grandstanding, whatever..I’m glad I voted for him and wish him success for what he is trying to do.
There are more than a few Pathological Liars in Evansville’s Politico Pool, and they reveal themselves all the time with their outlandish statements.
We all would be laughing at them, if they weren’t blowing our dough/resources all the time.
All of you may want to ask yourself how you are again in a position, just like the arena project, where you have NO say in the issue.
I was under the impression that Indiana statute had changed and that political subdivisions could no longer spend tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer dollars without the consent of those taxpayers.
We are going through the exact same process that gave us the arena with no chance for remonstrance. How is this current hotel/parking garage/commercial space any different?
You Mary be referring to the prohibition against protesting annexation in certain sub-divisions.
There is a prohibition against local government spending over a certain amount, I believe $5 million, without approval of an elected fiscal body.
We need a Priority Board like what is used in Dayton, Ohio. Sometimes its called a “Citizens Council” or “Advisory Council” in other towns. It is an elected group of unpaid citizens with no political party affiliation, whose purpose is to prioritize and approve large public works projects and other large (namely new) line item expenditures. These Council or Boards are typically used to focus energy on neighborhood/city level problems. There are usually numerous seats available on these elected Councils and the territories are nearly at precinct or even neighborhood level sizes. This link gives a lot more detail about what I am speaking of: http://www.mrsc.org/publications/lgcab08.pdf
In example, here is a map of the territories of the Priority Board of Dayton, Ohio: http://www.daytonohio.gov/departments/pcd/Planning%20Docs/Priority%20Board%20Map.pdf
This link talks a little more about Dayton’s Priority Board. It is part of their planning department.
http://www.daytonohio.gov/departments/pcd/planning/Pages/priorityboards.aspx
There is a book that was written called, “Neighborhood to Nation†and it delineates the differences between a “representative†government that we have here in Evansville, to a “participatory†government (that I am proposing here). It is a good read and I believe you would enjoy it: http://books.google.com/books?id=dK0KXxIQJKwC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
There are other cities besides Dayton that have Priority or elected Citizens Boards such as:
In Raleigh, NC, A citizens Advisory Council: http://www.raleighnc.gov/neighbors/content/CommServices/Articles/CitizensAdvisoryCouncil.html
In Seattle, it is a “Neighborhood Council†that is elected: http://www.seattle.gov/neighborhoodcouncil/
And they seem to be fairly popular in California too. LA, Hollywood, and Venice all have elected Neighborhood Councils that are used to focus local government projects.
Ultimately, this change that I am suggesting would help vet many of the projects that we do here in Evansville. It places more power in the citizens hands and less in a politicians hands. It is a safeguard against frivolous spending projects.
Brent
Were you at the City Council meeting last night?
Were you at the meeting tonight? 3 City Council members were there. I was there.
Will you be attending the next 5 meetings?
All are opportunities for you to state your case/position.
So now you are hanging with Missy and Weaver. Congratulations on your choice of allies Mr. Republican Chairman.
How do you think Ron Romain would like it if the City Council and Mayor made him collect money to hand to Kenny Kent and Mike O’Daniel. That is exactly what they are doing to the local hotel industry.
Yoda–You are wrong again. This situation is very unusual.
The City Administration would have love it if a local hotel owner/s would have stepped up to the plate to participate in this downtown convention hotel project. They could have but one did. The new convention hotel will bring new people to Evansville. It will increase other hotels business not hurt them.
Existing hotels benefit from local government tax dollars. Example: Ballparks
Wayne, Have you read the Hunden report. If this city fail to follow this report, then why did we spend $217k on such a report, Are we are going to put it in to the recycle bend? The report is clear that 70% of the convention hotel revenue will come from the existing local hotel industry!!!
So how do you explain the opposition of the hotel owners to this deal? I am not aware of any hotel owner except the one getting the handout in favor of this. Do you think John Dunn is an idiot?
I believe the statute you reference only kicks in if property tax revenue is being used directly to fund a project. TIF and the other funding sources don’t kick in the referendum requirement. I think that they should though.
Here is the fallacy in that thinking: How many times last night did you hear that they have the option of using County Option Income Tax (COIT) revenue to meet the debt service requirements?
Should these people be allowed to tax your income to pay for this project and you not even be able to remonstrate against that taxation?
__
Financing for this convention hotel project will not cause an increase in anyone’s taxes.
Maybe it will and maybe it won’t. What it is guaranteed to do is divert money that could be used for essential functions to bribe an outsider to build a hotel. What happens if the TIF doesn’t perform. That’s right, County Option income tax pays the bill. If you buy into the notion that TIF money is free money you are really not a deep thinker. There ain’t no free lunch Wayne. That is an early childhood lesson. Please stop being a stooge for Winnecke and be who you really are.
It is obvious that you have no concept of how TUG works. The source of TIF funds is that certain taxes remain in a TIF district that otherwise would otherwise be available county wide.
These TIF funds are therefore not available to Scott, Pidgeon, Knight Twps or EVSC.
Wayne, no one’s taxes will increase directly or immediately, this appears to be true, BUT the debt service will have to be paid and it’s a gamble it will pay for itself out of future tax revenues and increases in business activity over the next 25 years. Not only that, but I am not convinced business for this new quasi public/private hotel will not come at the expense of other hotels in town. That case was not made effectively at the last CC meeting. Furthermore, you and I both know the projections for the number of permanent, and probably temporary construction, employees has been severely fudged.
Lastly, this developer will seem to have a perfect incentive to take the $37.5 million, pocket some of that when they pay themselves during the building phase, invoke their waivers to employ as few people as possible over the first five years of the hotel’s existence, then sell the hotel and pocket the difference.
The city could not peddle these bonds anywhere without the COIT provision. If you do not believe me then take it out of the bond proposal and see what happens.
So they want to be able to tax your INCOME, and they will not give the taxpayers a say in that matter.
I believe that is called taxation without representation and the few remaining people out here with any balls still get a little hot under under the collar about that.
Wayne, you are the reason your party can not win an election. There is no difference between your thinking and that of the local democrat party.
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Well, now We know “the Rest of the story”, finally, the “Politburo”, AKA, Evansville Regional Business Committee, that pulls the strings in the Puppet Show Government of Evansville, has been revealed.
I wouldn’t trust these Creeps, any further than I could throw a “Mafia Don’s Cadillac”.
Starting today I telling my friends not only to boycott buying cars from Roman Cadillac but also doing business with Bob Jones Old National Bank. The members of this secret society of millionaires needs to be brought to there economic knees.
Thanks to CCO blogger Pressanykey for bringing this group of rich back room political bosses who shape our financial futures.
How many people do you employ?
These union groups should be ashamed… And the political hypocrisy here is DEEP!
Remember back when Mitch was putting into place the State property tax “circuit breakers”? Then mayor Weinzapfel responded in the Courier with, “A cut of $3.4 million in 2010 would represent 43 police officers of 45 firefighters, or in the alternative we could close the zoo and eliminate bus service in order to make up the difference.”
If what the CCO has presented us on August 7th, is true… The Ford Center alone is running losses greater than 43 police or 45 firefighters PER YEAR? Where is Weinzapfel and all the members of Council at the time, in the news, explaining this to us in detail?
Is it true that $37.5 million is (using Weinzapfel’s 2010 figures) about 474 [!] police salaries or 496 [!] firefighters salaries?
I wonder how long bus service and/or the Zoo can run with $37.5 Million?
Please join the a real “Boycott” movement by not doing business with the elite millionaires members serving on the board of the Evansville Regional Business Committee.
Oh, Pressanykey would you be so kind as to re-post the names of the members of this little known board of local millionaires would meet on the 7th Floor of the Vectren conference room each month in order that they can reshape future economic direction based on their needs and opinion and not ours.
Wonder if Ed Hafer Architectural firm is helping with the plans on the new downtown hotel? Wonder if they are still paying him monthly payments for the sale of his part of his firm to his old business partners ? If so, could this be considered to be a conflict of interest since he serves as Chairmen of the ERC Board that approved this project last week and receives monthly payments from his old firm.
Their wealth has nothing to do with it. It is a lack of ethics.
I have dealt with some of the richest people in EVV and they have been extremely ethical. And their assurance has been a handshake.
Link below to tax returns for the 501(C) Evansville Regional Business Committee, Inc. In 2008 it gave $21,169 to EVSC Support of Superintendent.
http://990finder.foundationcenter.org/990results.aspx?990_type=&fn=Evansville+Regional+Business+Committee&st=IN&zp=&ei=&fy=&action=Find
Hafer is just about the only member to receive a paycheck from this Organization. A nice one too at $73k. http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/030/030408032/030408032_200812_990EO.pdf
KOCH II,ROBERT L., 10 S ELEVENTH DIRECTOR
AVENUE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47744 3.00 0. 0. 0.
ELLERBROOK, NIEL C., ONE VECTREN CHAIRMAN
SQUARE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 3.00 0. 0. 0.
GOEBEL, ANDREW E., ONE VECTREN VICE PRESIDENT AND TREASURER
SQUARE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 3.00 6,000. 0. 0.
BRAUN, ALAN W., 401 N.W. FIRST VICE CHAIRMAN
STREET, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 2.00 0. 0. 0.
DANIEL, JR., JOHN N., FIFTH THIRD DIRECTOR
BANK PO BOX 778, EVANSVILLE, IN 2.00 0. 0. 0.
GEISSINGER, FREDERICK W. (RICK), 601 DIRECTOR
N.W. SECOND STREET, EVANSVILLE, IN 2.00 0. 0. 0.
HAFER, JR., EDMUND L. AIA, ONE PRESIDENT
VECTREN SQUARE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 30.00 73,333. 0. 0.
JONES, ROBERT G. DIRECTOR
ONE MAIN STREET, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 2.00 0. 0. 0.
LEMOND, MARK L., 7500 EAST COLUMBIA DIRECTOR
STREET, EVANSVILLE, IN 47715 2.00 0. 0. 0.
PATE, JACK D., 300 E WALNUT STREET, DIRECTOR
EVANSVILLE, IN 47702 2.00 0. 0. 0.
REYNOLDS, R.J. (RANDY), 4000 TULIP DIRECTOR
TREE DRIVE, PRINCETON, IN 47670 2.00 0. 0. 0.
SCHROEDER, JOHN C., 600 CROSS POINTE DIRECTOR
BLVD., EVANSVILLE, IN 47715 2.00 0. 0. 0.
VEA, MICHAEL T. DIRECTOR
PO BOX 868, EVANSVILLE, IN 47705 2.00 0. 0. 0.
WALSH, MICHAEL L. DIRECTOR
1 LEXAN LANE, MT VERNON, IN 47620 2.00 0. 0. 0.
STATEMENT(S) 4EVANSVILLE REGIONAL BUSINESS COMMITTEE,
_WHITTY, ANN E. DIRECTOR
PO BOX 10, NEWBURGH, IN 47629 2.00
BOOTS, IRA G., 101 OAKLEY STREET, DIRECTOR
EVANSVILLE, IN 47710 2.00
JOBE, JEFF, 2400 W. LLOYD DIRECTOR
EXPRESSWAY, EVANSVILLE, IN 47721 2.00
KELLER, ROBERT J., 817 MAXWELL DIRECTOR
AVENUE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47711 2.00
ROMAIN, RONALD D., 3700 E MORGAN DIRECTOR
AVENUE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47715 2.00
WHITE, LINDA E. DIRECTOR
600 MARY STREET, EVANSVILLE, IN 47747 2.00
ALBERTSON, SUSAN, ONE VECTREN DIRECTOR
SQUARE, EVANSVILLE, IN 47708 2.00
Raised to $83k in 2011.
This looks like an old list of this exclusive club.
Wait a minute. Most all of the people that volunteered for this board are really good community leaders. They have their own companies to run. Anyone that has never meet these people, dont judge or you are wrong. President Hafer gets paid for his 40 hrs/wk, fair game.
Sounds like something an attorney would say. How many of these rich people did you represent over a period of time? Why don’t you just go to the next subject because you are way off track on this issue.
Actually the tax returns say Mr. Hafer’s $83,000 is for 30 hours per week but that is really between he and his board of directors. Maybe they will cut him to 29.9 hours to be exempt from ObamaCare.
We are both right. Tax returns show Ed Hafer at 30 hrs/wk in 2008 and 2009. Mr. Hafer apparently went “full time” to 40 hrs/wk in 2010 and 2011. Not a bad gig, he received over $319,000 in those 4 years.
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