IS IT TRUE October 15, 2012
IS IT TRUE that both the immediate and long term actions with respect to Roberts Stadium are sitting in limbo for the most part because no real consensus was agreed to by the people of Evansville?… in spite of Mayor Weinzapfel’s Dave Rector led assault on Roberts followed by Mayor Winnecke’s window dressing committee formed to make it look as though a rational collaborative process was being followed that the proponents of both sides are still at each other’s throats?…the Evansville City Council has effectively made the state of limbo permanent by choosing not to appropriate any money to do the demolition by a 6 – 3 vote?…this is just the vote to take Roberts down and has nothing at all to do with what to do with the site after the stadium is turned into a pile of rubble that will resemble Mayor Weinzapfel’s Rock Pile that lingered downtown for longer than it should have?…this latest about face would not be happening if a rational plan with funding had been adopted before the assault on the stadium began?
IS IT TRUE we are hearing that many of the fixtures in the stadium like toilets, lights, and windows were sold at the auction and that the removal process did not take care in their removal?…that we furthermore are hearing from Mole #28 and others that Councilwoman Missy Mosby has now decided that rapid demolition is the right thing to do?…that it seems as though old Rector must have given Ms. Mosby a guided tour of the wreckage and shown her the catastrophic damages in order to secure her vote to set money aside to pay Wreck It Ralph to raze Roberts Stadium to the ground?…all of the things that supposedly convinced Ms. Mosby to join Team Wreck It Ralph are things that would have been done to refurbish Roberts anyway?…the Wrecking crew led by Dave Rector on behalf of two mayors finally seems to have done enough destruction to eliminate selling Roberts to some private investor in turn key condition from consideration?…the best course of action is still to hold one more auction and sell Roberts Stadium as is to the highest bidder?…the second best course of action is to proceed with the demolition and then auction the site to the highest bidder?…that Councilwomen Mosby and Robinson were spot on in their analysis of whether Mayor Winnecke should be going forward with a dog and skateboard park at a price tag of nearly $10 Million when all is said and done?…their analysis was “we are all parked out and don’t maintain what we have?â€â€¦these are two smart women when it comes to spending money we don’t have on something we don’t have the resources to take care of?
IS IT TRUE that the Common Council of the City of Evansville will be meeting tonight at 5:30 on the 3rd floor of the Civic Center to discuss the 2013 Budget?…it will be interesting to see if the reset button has really been hit yet with respect to reconciliation of the account of the City of Evansville?…the City Council may have gotten tricked into passing a 2012 budget by the Weinzapfel Administration but that has left much egg on their faces and they should not pass another budget until reconciliation is complete and the MIPS software is confirmed to be working as Big Dan from Umbaugh said it was last week?…that in addition to the MIPS failures and the cost of taxpayer dollars associated with said failures, the City Council would be wise to quiz the Utility Department that proceeded against the advice of engineering, and implemented the “Canopy†software which was supposed monitor the sewage overflows into the Ohio River and Pigeon Creek?…there are approximately 21-22 entry points on both of these tributaries?…unfortunately only about 5 of those points functioned under the software?… the Utility has abandoned the software for cell phone technology which appears to be operational but once again wasted taxpayer money on a boondoggle that changed nothing for the better?…we wonder if “Canopy†was dumbed down like the MIPS was to appease some people that seem to like the dark ages?…maybe the Water and Sewer Utility of the City of Evansville should revert to smoke signals to communicate and cave paintings to add?
IS IT TRUE there should be some investigation regarding the work that Steve Titzer’s firm Harding Shymanski did for the Water and Sewer Utility trying to fix the MIPS software package before anyone found out the books could not be reconciled?…that Mr. Titzer was a signer on the Johnson Controls contract shoved through in the last hour by the Weinzapfel Administration?…he signed as an appointed member of the board?…that such arrangements where board members firms do compensated work for the entities that they serve on the board of are frowned upon in most local government entities?…the true status between the Evansville Water and Sewer Utility and Mr. Titzer should be investigated for approval by the Winnecke Administration?…the reason is that this certainly has the appearance of conflict of interest and the people of Evansville should be given the courtesy of assuring them it is not by the Office of the Mayor that appoints board members to the Water and Sewer Utility?
FYI, Ms. Collins is still the CFO of your Utilities after the Auditgate hearings a week ago. She probably gets paid more than you($81k/year).
SMG, City Controller’s Office, and City Utilities. Everything that she touches turns into poop. If she was so good, why is Big Dan from Umbaugh in to do her work? Why are they paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars?
The question is what does she got on Weinzapfel?
Will someone post any up-date on coverage of the USI merger debate Wed. Rev. Brooks has several power points from Louisville’s merger, considering promised vs. delivered.
“…the best course of action is still to hold one more auction and sell Roberts Stadium as is to the highest bidder?…the second best course of action is to proceed with the demolition and then auction the site to the highest bidder?”
No, that is NOT the best course of action either way. The best course is to pick the option that was most popular and least expensive and that was to scale it down using the Innkeepers Tax. Like it or not, the Innkeepers Tax is being collected and will continue to be collected. If it’s not used on Roberts it will be used on 8 lousy dull and boring ball fields.
Roberts will put more heads in beds than the ball fields, it can be used during all 4 seasons, and most of the “gutting” that has taken place was budgeted for in the $4-$4.5 million estimate any ways including the bathrooms, roof, HVAC, floor, and misc lighting even though the interior lighting IS STILL THERE. You can clearly see the building lit up on most nights (although I expect this to change once Rector realizes how dumb it makes his argument).
Not to mention there are more intangible benefits with Roberts than the ball fields such as a disaster relief area, an indoor trail hub, a shuttle parking lot for downtown, as well as a place for the locals to at who can’t afford bigger facilities (we already have 50 + ball fields).
So this notion that selling is going to save the city any money is incorrect. Any money “saved” will be wasted on ball fields.
And one other thing, this building isn’t even close to being totaled. The walls, windows, hvac ducts, and yes the interior lighting are all still there. This picture was taken just a few days ago…
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100939910039670&set=o.158943827457362&type=1&theater
Nothing should be removed beyond this point. If it is, that is just further proof the powers that be are just trying to sabotage it so that they can use their own neglect as reason for demolition.
I am waiting for an “accidental failure” of the pumps. All it takes is a simple fuse and this whole discussion will be moot.
Jordan, I see you still haven’t learned anything through your experience.
The only viable option to save the Stadium is Option C – sell it. It always was. Anything you try to do with it will be purposefully torpedoed by the people in charge so they can say, “see, we gave it a chance and it didn’t work”.
Besides, your proposal only spends more money, just like their proposal. I see virtually no difference between your option and theirs.
I’m sorry, but I’m slowly arriving at the conclusion that despite your claims you don’t care about the building itself, you’re just attached to your ideas.
Your argument of “like it or not the Innkeeper’s Tax is being collected anyway” is just like saying “well, we know murder is wrong, but it will always exist, so let’s not go after the murderers.”
Brad, your right on selling the site as being the only option that would allow Roberts as a building to remain standing. Jordan is just obsessed with keepign that white elephant standing. Still wont happen however, but at least you understand it. The possibility of the IU med center there is very interesting to me. I dont support selling the property to a private developer generally but for a medical/educational facility I think I would support that.
PS Jordan, the only Option gaining any political steam at this point is Option C. If you refuse to convert, you do so to the detriment of the Stadium you purport to be defending, for unless we consolidate forces around Option C, it WILL be demolished. Mark my words.
The sole enemy of the demolition argument is now the COST… That’s the ONLY holdup! If you refuse to acknowledge that, it’s your ego talking, not your rational brain.
Your option does not address the cost aspect in any meaningful way. In fact, your proposals seek to spend more taxpayer money as well to keep the property on government books. You have lost consensus in this regard. The CCO poll as well as the prevailing opinions of voters are proving that.
So when 8 ball fields go up on the northeast side of town are still going to argue it saves cost? And no option C is nothing different. If it is sold it will be a strip mall within weeks if not days.
Selling Robert’s Stadium as it should have been from the beginning does not necessarily equate to 8 ballfields on the northeast side. That is the fallacy in your argument. You have erected that argument to buttress a weak position.
The reality is, the Stadium issue and the ballfields issue are two separate battles that need to be waged separately.
Your assertion that any investor would just throw up a strip mall is completely unfounded and grasping at straws. Is there a chance you are right and a mall would be what an investor had in mind for the plot? Possibly. But there are a myriad of possibilities that neither you nor I could forsee in our limited business experience. It could be turned into a distribution hub for some large company. It certainly has the square footage and accessibility for it.
I personally think it would be a great alternative venue for acts who do not want to deal with Ticketmaster. The Ford Center has entered a contract with Ticketmaster for all ticket sales… Interestingly, RedBox, the DVD rental kiosk company has started offering tickets for some artists in its machines. Carrie Underwood has just signed on with them. Problem is, that means Carrie Underwood could never play at the Ford Center. This could be a trend in the making. It would be unwise and presumptuous to jump to conclusions on what the free market might decide for Roberts Stadium
Roberts Stadium location is no good for malls or large shopping centers. That market moved east of Burkhardt years ago. Look at all the vacant commercial land between Green River Road and Epworth Road. Washington Square Mall will soon close. The future is in Warrick County. The only good commercial use for Roberts Stadium is a mega church multi purpose facility. Christian music concerts, mass marriages, and of course the mega baptismal below row 12.
Maybe that’s true… Maybe it’s not… The point is, the free market, i.e. capital investors who are risking their own money, should decide that, not politicians who only have other people’s money to play with. I’m not here to speculate too much what should be done with it, after all, I’m not the one buying it, but a mega-church seems like as reasonable a use as any. One thing is for certain…just about any solution beats the hell outta demolition and a dog park.
Corey Mills (commercial realtor) just told the City Council that Evansville has a 19 year supply of commercial land on the market, that a medical campus won’t fit, and that no private enterprise would assume the risks for the maximum profit achievable from the Roberts site”. Makes you wonder how a town that has a 19 year supply of land for sale could be attractive for anything.
Editor:
I don’t doubt the truth in that, but every piece of property is different. Roberts would certainly be unique in the market. I still believe a municipal firesale of surplus property adjacent to a major highway could bring in some bidders.
Furthermore, any realtor has every incentive to see Roberts demolished… An auction sale of Roberts could mean sale they can’t broker themselves.
Whatever the current state of commercial property logs in Evansville, it still doesn’t trump the arguments for Option C.
Agree. Better to sell for a buck than dump a million bucks in the river.
Every poster on this topic seems to moonlite as a real estate professional. However every real estate professional, by occupation and profession, seems to join the growing choir of those qualified to render such opinions that the structure has no value and should be torn down. Why is the community listening to those with a louder voice rather than those with an informed voice?
…come to think of it, speaking of a realtor’s incentive to see Roberts demolished rather than compete in the market… Isn’t the Mayor’s wife a realtor? Kinda makes me wonder who invited Cory Mills to speak and what else they could possibly expect in a testimony from someone with absolutely nothing to gain from seeing the Stadium auctioned off.
Need to be anonymous:
(Nice username by the way)…
I’m not a professional politician either, but that doesn’t and shouldn’t stop me from pointing out when one is lying through his teeth.
You don’t have to be a professional realtor to know that A) selling the property at auction would cost the taxpayer nothing and possibly gain them revenue from the sale in addition to potential revenues from a prosperous business if one takes up residence, B) a realtor giving a testimony before a Council as an “expert” has a clear professional incentive to avoid this property coming onto the market and competing with their log of represented properties, C) politicians LOVE to spend money and will look for any and every reason to demolish Roberts Stadium simply because it allows them to spend the most money and reward the most political donors and they will call upon whatever “experts” they can find who share their particular view to buttress their weak positions, D) commentary on this issue in favor of the irrational path toward demolition, particularly that coming from anonymous users, should be should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism since they are probably one of the people with a horse in the race.
For myself, I can tell you I have absolutely no horse in this race. I use my real name on every post I make, so if you want to research me, you can clearly see I stand to gain nothing from seeing Roberts sold at auction but perhaps a lowered tax burden and the satisfaction of knowing that for once my elected officials did something rational.
And no you do not care about the building. You are only into this issue because of your far right wing liberatarian ideology. That is a basic truth.
Libertarianism, i.e. “classical liberalism”, isn’t “far right wing”.
If Option C prevails, there is a chance the Stadium will continue to be used for something. You keep making the argument the building is NOT in bad shape. In fact, you just made that argument. If that is indeed the case, a buyer will see the value and likely keep the structure intact. At least this way there is a CHANCE the building will be saved. But right now you are insisting on repeating the past!
You’ve already been down this road once. Your ideas were rejected, leaving the convenient alternative to tear down the building. You are insisting on making this easy for them. I can’t decide why you would do that other than your ego is getting in the way of your rationale.
We thought your OCD was now fixated on the cemetary Jordan. Gotta give you credit you beat a dead horse ilke Joe Biden beat up on Paul Ryan.
What?
You mean we now have three(3)Million dollar software packages not installed property or not presently working in city of evansville departments?
Two located in water and sewer department and the other one in the City Controllers department.
Why did Winnenke and Russ Lloyd, Jr. keep this information from the taxpayers?
Shame on them!
Winnenke and Lloyd have just killed the chances for “Yes for Consoldation” to ever pass! People of the city and county are tired of
backroom political coverup deals by Winnenke and Lloyd, Jr.
One more thing Jordan… You indicate on your Facebook account that you have changed your position on Consolidation to “No”. That at least shows a willingness to change your thinking as new information arises. I suggest you apply that same thought process to the Robert’s Stadium debate before it’s too late and switch to Option C.
Also, when are you gonna change your CCO handle to reflect your new “NoOnHSR” position?
Mayor Winnenke, Russ Lloyd Jr. and Marsha “Nepotism” Abell should be ran from public office!!!!!
Looks like the taxpayers paid over 3 million dollars of specially designed computer software with no results.
What idiots!
Mayor Winnenke and Russ Lloyd, Jr. need to go because they have once again hid important financial imformation from the taxpayers of this city.
They are very dishonest people for continuing doing this type of unacceptable thing!
Why in the hell would Winnenke and Lloyd withhold the software issue from us.
Shame on you’all. Russ Lloyd,Jr. if your wonderful dad was still living today he would be extremely ashamed of your actions as City Controller!
At a party the other evening. Russ Lloyd, Jr. was the topic of the conversation. Most all like Russ Lloyd, Jr. but have lost a great deal of respect for him.
They also feel that Winnenke and his Chief of Staff are setting him up to be a fall guy once all the information about software deals are made public!
I like Russ Jr,but he should watch out and not be the fall guy for the girl that should be fired.
Why should the taxpayers pay twice for work……pay Controller Collins and then outside accountants……..Collins must be off the payroll….fired
Did you see Jenny admit that former Mayor Weinzapfel knew the books were not balanced and that the software did not work? That means that Winnecke and Russ were blindsided last January. Talk about being disrespectful?
If that’s the case, why didn’t they call a press conference and get the issue out in the open? Isn’t that what you would have done if you were Mayor? Seems to be the most transparent approach to me.
I, for one, dont believe that. Winnecke= Weinzapfel, they are joined at the hip abd Winnecke has, and is trying to cover for Johny, Jenny, Friend, BJ, and Connie that all played together to screw Rick Davis, because he went against the KING John. It makes me wonder, if Rick had been elected, what more would we know about the underhanded dealings of these sneak thiefs. We tried to tell folks, elect Rick and the truth would have been told. I believe some of these folks would be facing criminal charges by now, and thats why they are so scared of mr Davis. VOTE NO on consolidation, and put and honest guy back in office, Rick Davis for Treasurer.
What a snafu by the former Administration. Too bad Mayor Winnecke did not call them out when this was discovered.
The Civic Center employees are really disappointed in Russ Lloyd, Jr.
They felt he would stand up and speak out on waste in city government.
Thought the Civic Center Moles were busy holding the door open for Rick Davis.
With political scandals, the cover up is worse than the crime.
In this case, the cover up is just as bad, when all that was needed was an honest assessment of the problem and an open discussion on how to resolve the issues.
It must be worth noting that an auxiliary power will need to be put in place for buyers of the electrical components at Robert’s. Since the electrical room is in the basement, cutting the power will lead to flooding in a matter of 10 minutes. I was showed the “leak” at the auction, and it consists of two 6″ leaks and one 8″ leak. The pumps run 24-7. I would be happy to show anyone the video I captured of the rushing water.
I guess this timetable for auction needs to be sped up then, don’t it?
I do not understand how it is ethical for a CPA firm can have a managing partner who is an appointed member of the Water & Sewer Department be hired to perform an audit or a review of the financial sttements of that same department.
There is at least a double conflict of interest for the CPA firm and that partner.
I do understand that Steve Titzer is a FORMER managing partner of HS&Co.
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