City Council Defers Hotel Vote Until September 30th

1. so they gave up on vetting the deal and are taking I don’t know for an answer. If I took a drink every time I heard I don’t know tonight I’d be communing with the porcelain throne right now.

2. Very entertaining to watch on TV. Love how Mr. Friend cant pronounce most names. Attorney Danks does a nice job as the MC. Mr. O’Daniel was spot on with his questions. KUDOS to the CCO for saving our community $17 million in tax dollars over 72 hours for being on top of this. Only the CCO pushes the issues and the financial math. Great job CCO.

   • It is embarrassing to watch Chairman John Friend struggle with about everything he does. He is a ball lost in tall weeds.

     • John did say that he left his glasses at home during the beginning of the meeting. From one who greatly depends on glasses that can make navigating difficult.

3. $7.5 million seems fair. It’s actually $500,000 LESS than the Kunkel plan. But if it’s $7.5 million AND $20 million that’s still $27.5 million making it nearly 4 times the Kunkel deal.

   I find it to be highly ironic that this $5.7 million storage facility wasn’t needed until after Roberts was demolished. Hmm….

4. Agreed! The vetting is still an issue, though.

   • That’s another point. When you have MULTIPLE developers fail to find financing for deals that appear to be smaller than this one, one would think that vetting would become more of a factor the next time around. It’s funny how the people who have complained that it’s taking so long to get this hotel are the same ones who want take the time to perform the vetting to make sure this doesn’t keep happening.

5. Rick Huffman,in a symbolic show of his clumsiness, almost fell down when he tried to get up to the podium. Then he proceeded to say that the national debt was going down.

   I want some of what he’s smoking.

   • I found him to be pretty unimpressive, too. It is kind of scary to think about him being in charge of anything more than a convenience store.
     You did a good job though, Brad.

     • Rick Huffman impresses me as Mr Haney from Green Acres. I do not trust that man and at the first exit he will leave with every dollar he can grab. But, he can get the job done and sometimes we have to deal with snakes. We better have every promise from him in a contract.

6. Read over on the C&P story that Huffman said he had trouble finding a hotel room at the first 2 hotels he tried on the East side of town. Find that a little hard to believe. Could it be the first of the “untruths” for this project?

   • The dumb ass also said the national debt was going down and that this project is costing the city nothing. No wonder this idiot does not want his personal info vetted. He doesn’t know debt from deficit and thinks that $20 Million of debt if free if it is paid for in 25 years of tax collections. He seems like a guy who answers to the call “Hey Bubba” to me.

     • Oh yeah, and don’t forget he said this hotel will employ “one person PER ROOM!”

   • I think he was trying to get a room at Dunn’s hotels.

7. I watched, this is what i saw, looked like the Mayor had his pal’s pack the room and even put lil orange stickers on em. Hey folk’s —- thats not Evansville. I saw some people without little orange stickers get up there and speak from the 4th ward and they seem to be under the impression that this hotel will empoly everyone in the 4th ward. Hey this Hotel will solve all our employment problems. ( not ) My best guess is like 150 MAYBE low paying jobs, that the kids will just get upset about having after the newness wears off.

   Can someone tell me how many rooms Tropicana has in it’s Hotel ? I saw a guy from India complain that some people he knows had to go to Tenn. for weddings because there was no Hotels around here that could accomadate 250 people, but then that turned out not to be the issue. No, they couldn’t find the food they wanted here either. So this Hotel is going to serve Indian food ? Hey pal fly em all out to Vegas and stay at the Luxor, plenty of rooms and yep —- Indian food…

   I stll think this whole thing stinks to high heaven and i’m sure i am in the majority, what was witnessed in that room was NOT the majority of this city, count on it.

8. Dan McGinn is the biggest disappointment of all. When I voted for him I thought he would have conservative values. I’m stunned that he , Mosby and Weaver were all for the taxpayers giving the hotel builder $37 million dollars of our tax money.

   Should had known that he is a Wayne Parke, Marsha Abell and a Mayor puppet.

   • I agree about your comments about McGinn. The only thing he is interested in is that loser of a Zoo we have. I hear we have lost $3 plus million of dollars on that next to nothing Zoo this year. He is a Wayne Parke Republican puppet.

     • Did you guys follow him on the Roberts & cemetery issues as well? This hotel is just reinforcing all of this.

   • You’ve never voted for Dan McGinn. Even if you live in the 1st Ward, you’ve never voted for him unless you were a Republican precinct committeeman in I believe 2009. He originally took the seat through a party caucus and then was not opposed in 2011. Because of that, he was not on the ballot.

9. I really do object to local governments operating in private, that is in this case that 25% part.

10. No matter what the 3-Card Monty “dealers” proclaim, the Red ink of it’s history indicates that reshuffling the deck will not have Old Downtown climbing out of the grave.

    • Crash: Your right, Its just another clothing change for an 50 old corpse.
      Bought with an shiny new credit card. credit limit got slashed by further review… 🙂 …Parental control? :0

11. I would vote HELL NO, based simply on the $ 11.5 Million investment by local business leaders being TOP SECRET, CLASSIFIED until the year 2088.

    The Administration which operates in secrecy would have it no other way !

    Also, why would the public portion be a GIFT, yet the rich business leaders get to make theirs as an INVESTMENT? How about a little parity here, eh comrade ?

12. Hey, I see all you sore losing, sour grape, negative nellies stayed up late crying over your clabbered milk.

    I have to admit though, Jordan has a point about the storage area needed for the Ford Center.

    So what’s next anyway?

    • It’s not over yet what-next, they didn’t vote for it yet. Either way it does go the 37.5 million isn’t going to be the figure. I hope they hold out until the figure is zero of tax payer money.

13. Am I the only one who noticed that while the rabble raised there voices an caused a ruckus about the hotel the good council passed the largest rate increase in our towns history. I believe both were good votes. But the coincidence of both on the same night seems like someone did not want to much discussion on the much larger project. I hope the people who really vetted this deal will keep a eye on those contracts for the new sewers. A lot more money will change hands then in this hotel deal. Money that really does come out of our pockets.

    • I did catch that, and thought that they might have planned all of this that way.

    • Hello, Just want to say hi to everyone as this is my first post in here.

      I also noticed that the city council voted to approve the sewer rate increase last night after all the hotel guests left the chambers. I too thought that it may have been planned that way.

      It appeared to me that the room was stacked with the hotel supporters.

      John Friend was trying to read “hand written” names and then trying to pronounce them. If any of you have tried to read someone else’s hand writing you would know that some people scribble is no legible and impossible to read. Therefore he was having a hard time reading their names. So I over looked his bumbling around with the names. He’s doing the right thing in trying to vet this hotel project and I think he means well.

      I’m glad that the city council is taking more time to study this last minute details of the huge changes. Is there a need to put out a new RFP or bid for this hotel project?

      Perhaps some other hotel change or developers can now bid on this.

      PS: The Evansville Courier and Press used to be my home page but not anymore. They shot themselves in the foot and will bleed to death slowly over the next few weeks, months.

    • No your not the only one whom noticed that other vote,the one that really means something your area for now. That is the real out of pocket for those in your region on the ESWD system.
      I noticed two things one being the director Mr.Mounts saying evolving new technologies are applied for positive use as they are presented and proven. The other was also in reference to technologies of the present day and the old barrier referred too by some on theses CCO comments sections as “closet doors” I.m pretty confident those barriers are somewhat more likely to the consistency of screen doors with the astute and more “advanced applications, understanding and design in communications, with the technologies of the present day.”
      I expect to hear an furious flurry of reactive communications towards the end of your week there. Zombie apocalypse so to speak.
      Your CSO issues are important ones, work with the ESWD to solve that issue while doing that see what you can also improve in transportation and logistics infrastructure during the improvements projects. Streamline your areas customer throughput and Accessibility through true road improvements.
      Access and infrastructure that is set to move forward is probably what the IU medical center most trustees will want on base first.
      Cheerleaders are OK however they seldom execute the winning plays.

    • No your not the only one whom noticed that other vote,the one that really means something your area for now. That is the real out of pocket for those in your region on the ESWD system.
      I noticed two things one being the director Mr.Mounts saying evolving new technologies are applied for positive use as they are presented and proven. The other was also in reference to technologies of the present day and the old barrier referred too by some on theses CCO comments sections as “closet doors” I.m pretty confident those barriers are somewhat more likely to the consistency of screen doors with the astute and more “advanced applications, understanding and design in communications, with the technologies of the present day.”
      I expect to hear an furious flurry of reactive communications towards the end of your week there. Zombie apocalypse so to speak.
      Your CSO issues are important ones, work with the ESWD to solve that issue while doing that see what you can also improve in transportation and logistics infrastructure during the improvements projects. Streamline your areas customer throughput and Accessibility through true road improvements.
      Access and infrastructure that is set to move forward is probably what the IU medical center most trustees will want on base first.
      Cheerleaders are OK however they seldom execute the winning plays.

14. City Council Attorney Scott Danks is quoted this morning by the Evansville Courier and Press as commending Mayor Lloyd Winnecke for making changes to the plan while noting “a huge flurry of activity in the last 72 hours.”

    That huge, 72-hour flurry of intense negotiating and weekend work sure didn’t include any of our hard working council members did it. It especially didn’t include any work from those two or three either council leaders who spent the weekend out of town or out of touch and unavailable for consultation or comment.

    That might actually be a good thing in the case of Mole #5 who would’ve spilled the beans to the media on each and every emerging detail before the final proposal could be inked. Enjoy your relaxed weekend, John?

    Now we get to see what sort of flurry of activity by council members occurs over the next 6 days either working to read and comprehend the new proposal to move downtown forward, or instead scurrying about the lower decks to cobble together yet a larger net of red herrings to spoil the catch.

    What’s next?

    • You do not have an effing clue what you are talking about. At least 3 council members were in on the whole deal and worked all weekend. The maximum bond number of $20 Million came from the council, not the mayor.

      • Connor is the only one who said anything about $20 million being his cutoff. I think it was a mistake to tell them that number in a negotiation. Even so, he is still asking questions. Good for him.

        I have faith SBR will stick until the innkeepers tax is gone. I’d say if anyone stands to swing it’ll be Connor and Connie.

      • Thanks for sticking up for the few council members who still have objective, open minded intentions to move Evansville forward. We need a few more like them. The only one I saw who stuck it out like a gentleman, who stayed open and objective even though he announced his intentions to vote NO! was Conor O’Daniels. And that just proves he’s a capable negotiator. Thank you, Conor!

        The rest of them need to learn better how to balance themselves atop their soapboxes.

        • I disagree. I think he is poised to capitulate too soon. I hope he rethinks it.

15. CITY COUNCIL MEETING
    5:00pm 9/23/2013 Civic Center: (paraphrased and jocular)
    … Union thugs lined the entrance to the Civic Center; waving identical commercially produced, but unreadable to me, mini-signs. They barked loudly, … I thought one big one was about to chase cars.

    5:20pm the meeting commenced. A long and extremely dry and boring accounting of sewer issues seemed to drift aimlessly through the chamber, ~forth and back~ like toy balloons at a nursing home exercise session.

    After an hour or so, of mind numbing, monotonic rhetorical chanting, like “moving xdollars from account #a, to account #c, … motion to approve? … motion by so-and-so, … do I hear a second? … motion seconded by such-and-such, … the yeas and nays? The ayes have it.”
    Then write it all down, or forget to write it all down and have to go back, forgetting who did the motions and seconds and asking around about it. …

    … Well, the remonstrators began predictably to wilt. Another hour later, and after numerous “Chinese-water-torture-like” rationalizations supporting 50-60 million dollar per year rate increases to our water/sewer bills,
    Council approved the increases and slipped out for a five minute bathroom break. (which lasted fifteen minutes or more plus some standing around time)

    … By this time all but a few of those opposed to the Hotel Proposal had gone home, back to work or “jumped of a bridge” (I guess) LOL*
    Finally, and I stress FINALLY they allowed the few remaining naysayers, who had withstood the withering gauntlet to plea their cases. A three minute per protester rule was in effect and enforced by Council holding up three fingers and counting the minutes down.

    … Sadly, most of those who lasted long enough to mount the podium were drained and ineffective. One guy must have been a regular. He (more than once) delivered an articulated monologue (which HE thought was quite funny) The moderator seemed unable to read or pronounce even the simplest names. I found this to be inept and insulting (in a way). While protesters spoke, … Weaver was seen performing childish antics and mockeries for his pal Mosby.

    … Then proceeded a legion of stuffed suits, Union bosses, Attorneys, Bankers, Quakers and Candlestick-makers; anyone who might stand to get wet when public money spews forth.
    At this point I lost all track of time and space. It was after 10:00pm when mercifully, the issue was tabled until Monday the 30th.

    _____

    Impressions: They have “set aside” the needed storage area, knowing they will will “find a way” and build that anyway.

    They claim to have cut the retail concourse, but they will eventually “get it done.”

    HCW still refuses to be thoroughly vetted.

    HCW is still free to abandon/sell this project after five years.

    My gut feeling is that nothing has really been conceded by either the developer or the Administration.
    (Just set aside for now)

    The amount of reduction in “incentives” monies seems covert, a bit fuzzy and was questioned by Robinson. She was very uncomfortable with the fact that the Public, in spite of their substantial financial contribution, will garner no equity, while the private investors will.
    (the terms secret of course)

    IMHO (if they get this)
    It will proceed like a blood-letting; drawing a little, then more and more until we are well. …

    Seriously? Blood IS in the water; … sharks circle. …

    • I doubt that Councilwoman Stephanie Brinkerhoff-Riley will ever get an acceptable answer to her question: What happened since the Common Council walked away from the table to, in a matter of hours, start dropping the public investment down to the currently proposed $7. million figure?

      Everyone wants the answer to that one.

      ___

16. “In what was perhaps one of the most courageous moves of the public comments opposition leader Brad Linzy asked the crowd how they liked the saving of $17.5 Million in public dollars only to follow that question with a strong “you’re welcome”. Local Innkeeper’s attorney Joe Langerak spoke eloquently about how much better this deal was now than it was just four days ago and credited the members of the council along with the opposition for forcing that to happen.” (CCO)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    I do not know that I would use the term “courageous” to describe Linzy’s “you’re welcome” comment. In fact, I thought it sounded a little self serving, as if Linzy had single handedly brought this better deal to the table.

    In fact, it took the exertions of many people in various ways to bring this package to the council for a vote, not the least of which are the individual council members themselves.

    From the view of a taxpayer who had all but given up on ever being used for anything but a doormat by local government I would like to say that I am proud of the city council for their performance on this issue.

    There are some things that remain in this deal that take the shine off of this jewel, and I am sure they will be discussed before the vote, but the council performed their function and got a better deal for the taxpayers, and when was the last time you saw that? Certainly NOT in the 8 years of the previous administration.

    ___

    • +1 Although I took Brad’s comments to be inclusive of all who had given opposition. It amazed me that he didn’t get support from the proponents when he asked if saving nearly $20 million was a good.

    • I did include all people who were asking questions, obviously not just myself. My comments that followed that cheered all the people from our side and the council members who got boos and hisses every time they asked important questions. I said they didn’t deserve that treatment and should be thanked instead of demonized.

      My point was, if all the self-serving people in orange stickers had used their brains, they would know that asking questions and applying pressure is how you reduce subsidies and ensure the host will live to bleed another day.

    • Press,
      You are right to praise the council members who spent much time, energy, sincerity , and hard work not to mention putting up with little sleep, no family or work time, and enduring threats to come to their decisions. I can bet that very few of the posters here would trade places with these elected council members knowing that they would get this treatment at every turn. There is frankly no excuse for the behavior that some of the public exhibited for these last several weeks and at the meeting last night. I was appalled at the heckling, booing and aggressive remarks.

      I lead a campaign in the last town in which I lived and learned very quickly that manners and civility are musts. In fact an elderly gentleman who came to meetings in support of our cause used to live in a New England village where town hall meetings were held regularly. In so many words he conveyed to the group that dealing with community concerns are like making love to your partner. There will be heat and there will be passion. But above all there must be respect. Unfortunately there was little respect on the part of quite a few citizens at last night’s meeting

17. The meeting was really excruciating and I don’t think it was an accident. I still have questions, but it seems to me that the idea was to numb the minds of those who have legitimate concerns.

18. I just don’t get how anyone that supported the hotel deal from the beginning isn’t embarrassed and ashamed after how this deal improved so quickly after people started saying NO! As someone said yesterday, if they kept saying NO they someone may end up paying the city to build the hotel. Seriously though, they should say no until the $2M Innkeepers Tax money is replaced by private money and until everyone involves agrees to proper vetting. After this, if everyone involved checks out then go for it.

    • Agree, 100%. It isn’t right to have people collect taxes used to fund their competitors, and in the grand schemes of the high-rollers, $2 million isn’t that much money.

      • I asked the Mayor about that last night. He said “not a chance”.

        I guess there’s not a chance of this deal garnering my support then.

19. Debbie Dewy, is typical of why we struggle. She said last night that we shouldn’t be raking investors like HCW over the coals but begging them to come to Evansville. That is how we won the Earthcare deal. We have a beggar city mentality. Instead, we need to deal from a position of strength not begging. Our attitude needs to be one of “why do you think you are worthy to be part of our community” not “please come save us.” With a beggar city mentality we will attract every shyster with a get rich quick scheme.

    • Debbie Dewey was in charge of vetting the Earthcare scam. She signed off on them. Now two years later they have no company and have not found any other city dumb enough to fall for their pantomime act. That enoch tells you how competent Debbie Dewey is. She will forever be know as the Witch of Earthcare. No wonder Evansville can’t make anything happen with fools like her in charge.

      She is really a peach. It is rare to find condescending and ignorance in the same body.

      • I don’t know about that. I’ve found a lot of folks who are so ignorant they don’t know they’re ignorant. I was not at all impressed with her whining about why her job is “so hard”

        • I cringed throughout her speech. She must write for the Courier.

          • Dewey is no witch, ask Christine O’Donnell. She knows the craft.

            The Earthcare name was likely spun up to attract her and any money she could direct just in case the rumors were true.

20. Taxpayer moneys gifted to a Hotel Consortium? Will the idiocy of Evansville ever wane? After 40ys of pouring money into that rat hole for Community Resources,–Old Downtown, it doesn’t look like it. The Elitists pigs continue to lunch on the wage earner’s money at the Government Trough.

    • Any wage earner who lets these El ite pigs lunch on them is just an ignorant fool. Which apparently is most everyone.

21. I know there are some very strong feelings about this issue. I have a neighbor who called me yesterday to ask if I could bail him out of jail if he gets locked up. Knowing this guy for almost 35 years I had to ask “What are you talking about?”. He said he was going to that meeting and he was going to definitely voice his opinion that, under no circumstances, does he want his tax dollars given away in some political bartering deal. I assured him that I’d post bail for him (which I clearly didn’t have to do) and had to agree with him that as an average citizen of this city, I also don’t want my tax dollars spent on what should be a private enterprise and private venture.

    Based on the people I hear talking, I have to wonder how the room was stacked with supporters of the project. It sort of reminds me of a local reverend getting caught on tape admitting he was stacking the deck and sending people up to speak about a certain incident involving the police and a bicycle rider. Right or wrong on either of these situations, I am not too keen on people making it their goal to have these meetings appear to be something they are not. This isn’t Washington DC, but we definitely have lobbyists at work to fill the council meetings to support or oppose certain agendas or issues.

22. The hotel deal has had SKUNK wrtten all over it from day one, and the “Gift” of 11 million dollars has that same odor. Council members beware of this golden egg, for it may explode and you will have egg on your face, but the taxpayers will be on the hook for 25 years or more. There is such thing as a free lunch.

23. Call me naive, but i still have faith in Evansville and i believe that anyone of the council members who vote yes on this GIVE AWAY will be in turn–> voted out of office by my fellow citizens.

    That is unless WE ALL start getting checks in the mail from the Mayor to build new houses for ourselves.

24. This isn’t word for word but I heard Winnecke earlier on WIKY saying how the original proposal was a bad deal. Really, Lloyd?? Then why were you so quick and eager to shove the deal down the taxpayers throats? F*cking ridiculous!

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